That God of the 'Calvinism-haters' is either weak, or changeable

[Dylan569]

The Apostle John wrote of God's love for the world(Jn 3:16, 1Jn2:2), and John made clear that the world he saw as God loving so much that He gave his Son, is:

They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to break its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation; (Rev 5:9 NRSVue) *The world God gave his Son for is not every individual who ever lived, but those out of, or from all nations

God's Love is stated to be an Everlasting love

But the steadfast love of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear him, and his righteousness to children’s children, (Psa 103:17 NRSVue)

In overflowing wrath for a moment I hid my face from you, but with everlasting love I will have compassion on you, says the LORD, your Redeemer. (Isa 54:8 NRSVue)

the LORD appeared to him from far away. I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you. (Jer 31:3 NRSVue)


God is Immutable, He does not Change His mind or Repent

God is not a human being, that he should lie, or a mortal, that he should change his mind. Has he promised, and will he not do it? Has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it? (Num 23:19 NRSVue)

They will perish, but you endure; they will all wear out like a garment. You change them like clothing, and they pass away, but you are the same, and your years have no end. (Psa 102:26-27 NRSVue)

remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like me, declaring the outcome from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, “My purpose shall stand, and I will fulfill my intention,” (Isa 46:9-10 NRSVue)

Every generous act of giving, with every perfect gift, is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. (Jas 1:17 NRSVue)

In the same way, when God desired to show even more clearly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it by an oath, (Heb 6:17 NRSVue)

God's love is everlasting, and God is immutable, unchanging, as He does not change His mind, so how can God love every individual who ever lived without exception, but then send some to torment in the everlasting lake of fire?

Yes, the God of the Calvinism-haters, loves a person one day, and then hates them the next day and sends them to hell! That God of the Calvinism-haters is either weak and not able to save all that He loved and died to save, or He must be changeable, fickle. They can have their God, I'll love the God of the Holy Bible who is all powerful, never changing, and who loves His elect, the chosen ones, with an everlasting love.

 

[B-A-C]

What does the love of God have to do with Christians and Salvation? God loves even un-saved sinners.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Just because God loves you doesn't mean you are saved.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

2Sam 12:24 Then David comforted his wife Bathsheba, and went in to her and lay with her; and she gave birth to a son, and he named him Solomon. Now the LORD loved him

1Kin 11:4 For when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and his heart was not wholly devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been.
1Kin 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians and after Milcom the detestable idol of the Ammonites.
1Kin 11:6 Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, and did not follow the LORD fully, as David his father had done.
1Kin 11:7 Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable idol of Moab, on the mountain which is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the detestable idol of the sons of Ammon.

Exod 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exod 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
Exod 20:5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

 

[Johanabrahams]

God died for all and all were saved. But not everyone accept being saved from his sinning wretched humanity. And thus stay "in hell" by their own choice. While called to come out of it. God can never force anyone to be saved.

Acts 2:
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

When you die in the "hell of this untoward generation" it is your choice to be in that place where God and His Glory and Great Life is absent. That is being in hell in the afterlife too. All in Adam and His Judgment as "this untoward generation" which is hell are saved. But not all accept. Thus they go to hell [the place where God and Goodness is absent and only evil is present] in the afterlife by choice. God can never put someone where he does not want to be. All wanting to be with God will be with Him. And the more we want of God the more will will have it. They are the wealthy ones in the afterlife. Where only Spiritual Wealth exists. Which is all in God and Loving Him. Growing up in Him in His Godly Life of Great Glory and Goodness and Love and Peace and Joy and Happiness and Fulfillment.

 

[Dylan569]

What does the love of God have to do with Christians and Salvation? God loves even un-saved sinners.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Just because God loves you doesn't mean you are saved.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

2Sam 12:24 Then David comforted his wife Bathsheba, and went in to her and lay with her; and she gave birth to a son, and he named him Solomon. Now the LORD loved him

1Kin 11:4 For when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and his heart was not wholly devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been.
1Kin 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians and after Milcom the detestable idol of the Ammonites.
1Kin 11:6 Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, and did not follow the LORD fully, as David his father had done.
1Kin 11:7 Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable idol of Moab, on the mountain which is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the detestable idol of the sons of Ammon.

Exod 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exod 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
Exod 20:5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

God loves even the ELECT un-saved sinners. Not ALL the un-saved are loved by God.

In Rom. 4:25, 5:1 Paul is speaking to those justified by the resurrection of Christ, so in Rom. 5:8 when it states "Christ died for us", it is speaking to the justified, not to the unsaved in the world.

Much more surely, therefore, since we have now been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God. (Rom 5:9 NRSVue)

You wrote "Just because God loves you doesn't mean you are saved"??? It surely means that they will be saved, for they were justified at the resurrection of Christ. God loves with an everlasting love!

John 3:16 is NOT a formula for being saved! It does not read "so that whoever WILL believe in him", but to those believing in him as a present occurring fact of their having eternal life, the YLT "believing"; and this is what the old English "believeth" of the KJV means.

It pays to state the entire passage to get the meaning:

Then David consoled his wife Bathsheba and went to her and lay with her, and she bore a son, and he named him Solomon. The LORD loved him and sent a message by the prophet Nathan, so he named him Jedidiah because of the LORD. (2Sa 12:24-25 NRSVue)

The "him" refers to David, and is a statement of fact, not something stated that he earned.

 

[Dylan569]

God died for all and all were saved. But not everyone accept being saved from his sinning wretched humanity. And thus stay "in hell" by their own choice. While called to come out of it. God can never force anyone to be saved.

Acts 2:
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

When you die in the "hell of this untoward generation" it is your choice to be in that place where God and His Glory and Great Life is absent. That is being in hell in the afterlife too. All in Adam and His Judgment as "this untoward generation" which is hell are saved. But not all accept. Thus they go to hell [the place where God and Goodness is absent and only evil is present] in the afterlife by choice. God can never put someone where he does not want to be. All wanting to be with God will be with Him. And the more we want of God the more will will have it. They are the wealthy ones in the afterlife. Where only Spiritual Wealth exists. Which is all in God and Loving Him. Growing up in Him in His Godly Life of Great Glory and Goodness and Love and Peace and Joy and Happiness and Fulfillment.

"God died for all and all were saved." You wrote one of the most ridiculous statements I've read recently.

Looks at the very passage you quoted:

"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

When the gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord, and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers. (Act 13:48 NRSVue)

Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and anyone who comes to me I will never drive away,...No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me, and I will raise that person up on the last day. (Joh 6:37, 44 NRSVue)

 

[Johanabrahams]

"God died for all and all were saved." You wrote one of the most ridiculous statements I've read recently.

So the Death of God for all were not really "for all", Brother? And some are excluded to be a New Creation? That is not what He told Paul? And that is not what Paul preached.

2 Cor. 5:
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we himno more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Dylan569]

So the Death of God for all were not really "for all", Brother? And some are excluded to be a New Creation? That is not what He told Paul? And that is not what Paul preached.

2 Cor. 5:
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we himno more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

It is common among the Arminian, or the Calvinism-haters to ignore the antecedents of pronouns in the context, by this putting a different meaning to what is in the context. That totally changes the meaning of the writing of the author.

To whom is 2 Corinthians written?
"2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God that is in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout Achaia:"

NOTICE - The word "all" is referring to the saints, not every man in the world.

Paul is NOT writing to all men of the world; he is addressing the church, all the saints. Therefore, when we encounter the pronouns, we apply the pronouns to whom the statements are addressed. Unless there is reason in the immediate context to change this, the writing continues to be referring to the church, the saints. Let's examine the antecedents of pronouns in the more immediate text of v14 -

2Co 5:11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we try to persuade people, but we ourselves are well known to God, and I hope that we are also well known to your consciences.
2Co 5:12 We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you an opportunity to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast in outward appearance and not in the heart.
2Co 5:13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you.
2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ urges us on, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died.
2Co 5:15 And he died for all, so that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for the one who for their sake died and was raised.

In v14, it does not say "all men", but merely "all". Merriam-Webster explains this use of "all" -

"all, adjective, 2 : every member or individual component of
all men will go
all five children were present"

The context of 2Co 5:14 shows that "all" refers to those in the context. Those trying to twist the texts to support their errors, violate the rules of the antecedents of pronouns, and the contextual restrictions of the universal sounding words such as "all". So, look at the people under consideration that I underlined in the verses leading up to the "all" in v14. The "all" is referring to the church, all the saints mentioned in 2Co 5:1 and continued in this immediate context.

 

[B-A-C]

God loves even the ELECT un-saved sinners. Not ALL the un-saved are loved by God.

Do you have scripture for this, or is this just your own opinion?

 

[Dylan569]

Since it is so common for false teachers/preachers to ignore or pervert the antecedents of pronouns, it may be helpful to study up on this topic in rules of grammar:

Pronoun Antecedent Agreement: Definition, Rules, Examples | bartleby

This detailed guide introduces pronoun antecedent agreement and presents the rules to follow while ensuring it with suitable examples.

www.bartleby.com

 

[Dylan569]

Do you have scripture for this, or is this just your own opinion?

Put on, then, garments that suit God’s chosen and beloved people: compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, patience. (Col 3:12 REB)

My dear friends, beloved by God, we are certain that he has chosen you, because when we brought you the gospel we did not bring it in mere words but in the power of the Holy Spirit and with strong conviction. You know what we were like for your sake when we were with you. (1Thess 1:4-5 REB)

We are always bound to thank God for you, my friends beloved by the Lord. From the beginning of time God chose you to find salvation in the Spirit who consecrates you and in the truth you believe. It was for this that he called you through the gospel we brought, so that you might come to possess the splendour of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2Thess 2:13-14 REB)

I send greetings to all of you in Rome, who are loved by God and called to be his people. Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (Rom 1:7 REB)

Of course, one verse alone can only apply God's "everlasting love" to his elect, unless all go to heaven when they die.

the LORD appeared to him from far away. I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you. (Jer 31:3 NRSV)

 

[Johanabrahams]

It is common among the Arminian, or the Calvinism-haters to ignore the antecedents of pronouns in the context, by this putting a different meaning to what is in the context. That totally changes the meaning of the writing of the author.

To whom is 2 Corinthians written?
"2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God that is in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout Achaia:"

NOTICE - The word "all" is referring to the saints, not every man in the world.

Paul is NOT writing to all men of the world; he is addressing the church, all the saints. Therefore, when we encounter the pronouns, we apply the pronouns to whom the statements are addressed. Unless there is reason in the immediate context to change this, the writing continues to be referring to the church, the saints. Let's examine the antecedents of pronouns in the more immediate text of v14 -

2Co 5:11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we try to persuade people, but we ourselves are well known to God, and I hope that we are also well known to your consciences.
2Co 5:12 We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you an opportunity to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast in outward appearance and not in the heart.
2Co 5:13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you.
2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ urges us on, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died.
2Co 5:15 And he died for all, so that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for the one who for their sake died and was raised.

In v14, it does not say "all men", but merely "all". Merriam-Webster explains this use of "all" -

"all, adjective, 2 : every member or individual component of
all men will go
all five children were present"

The context of 2Co 5:14 shows that "all" refers to those in the context. Those trying to twist the texts to support their errors, violate the rules of the antecedents of pronouns, and the contextual restrictions of the universal sounding words such as "all". So, look at the people under consideration that I underlined in the verses leading up to the "all" in v14. The "all" is referring to the church, all the saints mentioned in 2Co 5:1 and continued in this immediate context.

What you basically said is that Jehovah only died for some. That is how you "interpret" the Word of God in your religion. No problem, Brother. All religions have all their own interpretations. Some agree with you and some not.

But for Me there is only one Reality. The Revelation our "Abba Father/Daddy, Jehovah" gave to me in my closet when I asked Him to teach me on His Sacrifice. Where only He knows what it actually mean. Thus all the different opinions. So enjoy yours, Brother. And I will enjoy mine. And all can decide what they are going to believe. All the different opinions where they chose the one suited to them or go and ask their Daddy in their closet to give them Revelation on it. As Paul said all should do. It is a choice of following our minds vs being Obedient to our Abba Father and enter Relationship with Him in asking Him just everything. And then speak what He said. This is spiritual Growth where you grow up by the Words the Creator of Life speak to His Kids in raising them Personally in His Life as their Daddy. Without this only more knowledge comes to the mind which means more "Adam life" and not more God Life.

 

[B-A-C]

Of course, one verse alone can only apply God's "everlasting love" to his elect, unless all go to heaven when they die.

A lot of verses here, but none saying He doesn't love the unsaved. Not a single one.

 

[Garee]

What does the love of God have to do with Christians and Salvation? God loves even un-saved sinners.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Just because God loves you doesn't mean you are saved.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Love is a "Let there be" good labor of Christ"

God saving love according to the prophet Job 23 ; My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept and not declined.Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth (daily bread)more than my necessary food.;But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth,(let there be) even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.;Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.;For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

Who makes your heart soft .God is not served by the dying hands as a will of mankind. No help needed from the peanut gallery.

 

[B-A-C]

God is not served by the dying hands as a will of mankind. No help needed from the peanut gallery.

And yet, God uses people all through the Bible. Noah built an Ark, Moses led Israel out of Egypt. David killed Goliath. Hundreds more.
MUCH more often than not, God uses people to accomplish His goals.

 

[Dylan569]

What you basically said is that Jehovah only died for some. That is how you "interpret" the Word of God in your religion. No problem, Brother. All religions have all their own interpretations. Some agree with you and some not.

But for Me there is only one Reality. The Revelation our "Abba Father/Daddy, Jehovah" gave to me in my closet when I asked Him to teach me on His Sacrifice. Where only He knows what it actually mean. Thus all the different opinions. So enjoy yours, Brother. And I will enjoy mine. And all can decide what they are going to believe. All the different opinions where they chose the one suited to them or go and ask their Daddy in their closet to give them Revelation on it. As Paul said all should do. It is a choice of following our minds vs being Obedient to our Abba Father and enter Relationship with Him in asking Him just everything. And then speak what He said. This is spiritual Growth where you grow up by the Words the Creator of Life speak to His Kids in raising them Personally in His Life as their Daddy. Without this only more knowledge comes to the mind which means more "Adam life" and not more God Life.

Quoting you - "What you basically said is that Jehovah only died for some."

No, it is what God said in his word:

"...and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Rev 5:9b KJV)
or
"...And hast purchased for God with Thine own blood Some out of every tribe and language and people and nation," (Rev 5:9b Weymouth)

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." (Acts 20:28 KJV)

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" (Eph 5:25 KJV)

"I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep...As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. (John 10:11, 15-16 KJV)

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matt 1:21 KJV)

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." (John 17:9 KJV)

 

[Johanabrahams]

Quoting you - "What you basically said is that Jehovah only died for some."

No, it is what God said in his word:

Ok. You are welcome on your opinions on the Word of God and His Love, Brother. You gave your point of view and I gave mine. And now all can decide which one is the Truth for them. No need for us to strife about it. Only "Babies of God in Carnality" strife on something while the Living God Reveals to everyone the Truth who wants the Truth.


1 Cor 3: 1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[Curtis]

1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Not only did Jesus die for his elect he also died for the sins of whole world.

 

[Curtis]

John Calvin did NOT come up with TULIP. Where the L stands for “limited atonement” Tulip came from some of John’s followers years after his death.

 

[Dylan569]

1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Not only did Jesus die for his elect he also died for the sins of whole world.

Go back to the beginning of the book.See who the "our" are speaking!...

John Calvin did NOT come up with TULIP. Where the L stands for “limited atonement” Tulip came from some of John’s followers years after his death.

You are correct that, but you do find the 5 points in the Synod of Dort further explaiiparticularismng particulasm

 

[Garee]

1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Not only did Jesus die for his elect he also died for the sins of whole world.

Yes, the elect not just the Jewish world all the nations.

The key is limited to "as many "not one more or one less.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.