The ARM of the Lord?

[Samson2020]

John 12:37 But though He(Jesus) had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on Him;
38 That the saying of Esias the prophet should be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the ARM
of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esias said again,
40 He(God) hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted,
and I(Jesus) should heal them.

Matt 16:13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Phillipi, He asked His disciples, saying, who do men say that I, the Son of Man am?
14 So they said "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am"?
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God".
17 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father
who is in heaven.

Psa 118:16 The strong right arm of the Lord is raised in triumph! The strong right arm of the Lord has done glorious things!

First do we understand that the Right Arm of the Lord is Jesus?
And to whom is Jesus revealed, and by whom?
If as our Lord says that flesh and blood cannot reveal Him then it is only done by the Father.

Was Jesus raised from the dead in triumph over death and he who had the power of death? Thus the right Arm of the Lord.
Does Jesus now sit at the right hand of the Father?

The point of this thread is to show that from even early in the OT God had always planned to be the revealer of Jesus to whom so ever He CHOSE
to reveal Him.

Thus whomsoever believeth in Him, is entirely up to Gods choice. We believe it ours but it isn't.
"For it is NOT of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows Mercy."
You are flesh and blood, sold under sin. How do you reveal the Son of God to yourself, much less anyone else?

By Jesus' words above it can't be done any other way, but by the election or choice of God. Grace! And "by grace are ye saved".

 

[Charlie24]

John 12:37 But though He(Jesus) had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on Him;
38 That the saying of Esias the prophet should be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the ARM
of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esias said again,
40 He(God) hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted,
and I(Jesus) should heal them.

Matt 16:13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Phillipi, He asked His disciples, saying, who do men say that I, the Son of Man am?
14 So they said "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am"?
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God".
17 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father
who is in heaven.

Psa 118:16 The strong right arm of the Lord is raised in triumph! The strong right arm of the Lord has done glorious things!

First do we understand that the Right Arm of the Lord is Jesus?
And to whom is Jesus revealed, and by whom?
If as our Lord says that flesh and blood cannot reveal Him then it is only done by the Father.

Was Jesus raised from the dead in triumph over death and he who had the power of death? Thus the right Arm of the Lord.
Does Jesus now sit at the right hand of the Father?

The point of this thread is to show that from even early in the OT God had always planned to be the revealer of Jesus to whom so ever He CHOSE
to reveal Him.

Thus whomsoever believeth in Him, is entirely up to Gods choice. We believe it ours but it isn't.
"For it is NOT of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows Mercy."
You are flesh and blood, sold under sin. How do you reveal the Son of God to yourself, much less anyone else?

By Jesus' words above it can't be done any other way, but by the election or choice of God. Grace! And "by grace are ye saved".

If you're speaking of Calvin's understanding that God chooses who will be saved, why did Christ say, "it is my Father's will that none should perish?

If God chooses who will go heaven and hell, don't you think there's some contradiction here?

 

[Samson2020]

If you're speaking of Calvin's understanding that God chooses who will be saved, why did Christ say, "it is my Father's will that none should perish?

If God chooses who will go heaven and hell, don't you think there's some contradiction here?

Not at all, as ALL Israel is to be saved and Israel is the elect of God. 1 Ti 2:3-6 note that since God wants, desires, will have ALL men to be saved, and as the
scriptures show it's up to Him to make it happen. Who shall be left out?

 

[Charlie24]

Not at all, as ALL Israel is to be saved and Israel is the elect of God. 1 Ti 2:3-6 note that since God wants, desires, will have ALL men to be saved, and as the
scriptures show it's up to Him to make it happen. Who shall be left out?

Someone once said that reasoning escapes the conversation with a Calvinist.

Again, how can God's desire be for all to be saved and at the same time choose to send some to hell?

 

[Samson2020]

"it is my Father's will that none should perish?

I would ask who can over rule Gods will?

 

[Charlie24]

I would ask who can over rule Gods will?

I would suggest that you are avoiding the question, but that's ok, all the Calvinists do it.

 

[Samson2020]

Again, how can God's desire be for all to be saved and at the same time choose to send some to hell?

It can't.
The words that have been interpreted as Hell are actually nothing more than the grave.
Gehenna is the place where the trash was burned.
Not a literal lake of fire in either case.

 

[Samson2020]

Rev 20:14 Death and hell(the grave) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Why say death and hell into the lake of fire IF hell is the lake of fire. Obviously they are different things. Hell is the grave necessary for those that die
during the second death.

 

[Charlie24]

It can't.
The words that have been interpreted as Hell are actually nothing more than the grave.
Gehenna is the place where the trash was burned.
Not a literal lake of fire in either case.

So when Christ told of the rich man "being tormented in the flames," in Luke 16, we should not take that literally?

When John told us "they were cast into the "lake of fire," we are not to take that literally?

So you're saying we are to ignore Rev. 21:8,

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

You're in a pitiful state.

 

[Samson2020]

When John told us "they were cast into the "lake of fire," we are not to take that literally?

It's spiritual language, figurative language.
You can't have God being the sole entity responsible for the revealing of who Jesus is and still tossing billions into an eternal torment because He
chose to not reveal Him to them. They will get the revelation at the second coming and at the great throne judgement. But still not at that time saved.

Their turn comes after the start of the second death.

Jesus spoke in parables so that people would not understand what he was saying, so why would a spiritual person
take what He said as having a literal interpretation?

 

[Samson2020]

So you're saying we are to ignore Rev. 21:8

Not at all but you as a non born again person don't have a choice but to pass into the second death for you have not been chosen as one of the elect
during this the first death dispensation. What choice do those that died prior to Jesus have, including JTB as He was not born again yet either, as Jesus
said that the least IN THE KINGDOM was greater than the greatest man born.
The second death is a reassembling of those things found in our world today, Satan, his horde, false religion(false prophet), Beast(world governments),
death, the grave(hell). They are all cast back into a condition in which the fire burns away their dross as God processes each and every son whom He
accepts after He makes them worthy to be called a son.

Literal interpretation of a Beast is an animal of some sort. But in reality it is the worldly governments of today.
It rises form the sea, but it being composed of humans is rising from the sea of humanity.
The false prophet is not ONE but many false religions. So is it literal or is it figurative.

I always felt more free when these things came to light in that understanding Gods love for His creation and what His intent toward man was/is.
completely dissolves my thinking I had to get it done. But like Paul rather we water, we sow, But GOD GIVETH THE INCREASE.

Whom the Son sets free shall be free indeed. John 8:36
Love casteth out ALL fear???? When you understand the Love of God your fear of anyone missing out is cast out.

 

[Charlie24]

Not at all but you as a non born again person don't have a choice but to pass into the second death for you have not been chosen as one of the elect
during this the first death dispensation. What choice do those that died prior to Jesus have, including JTB as He was not born again yet either, as Jesus
said that the least IN THE KINGDOM was greater than the greatest man born.
The second death is a reassembling of those things found in our world today, Satan, his horde, false religion(false prophet), Beast(world governments),
death, the grave(hell). They are all cast back into a condition in which the fire burns away their dross as God processes each and every son whom He
accepts after He makes them worthy to be called a son.

Literal interpretation of a Beast is an animal of some sort. But in reality it is the worldly governments of today.
It rises form the sea, but it being composed of humans is rising from the sea of humanity.
The false prophet is not ONE but many false religions. So is it literal or is it figurative.

I always felt more free when these things came to light in that understanding Gods love for His creation and what His intent toward man was/is.
completely dissolves my thinking I had to get it done. But like Paul rather we water, we sow, But GOD GIVETH THE INCREASE.

Whom the Son sets free shall be free indeed. John 8:36
Love casteth out ALL fear???? When you understand the Love of God your fear of anyone missing out is cast out.

OK, I won't argue with you any further.

 

[Samson2020]

How many times must the words of Jesus concerning this event be retyped?

John 6:44 "NO MAN CAN COME TO ME EXCEPT, the FATHER which hath sent me, DRAW HIM: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Does this agree with the opening verses about it is Gods choice as to whom the Son is revealed?

Two witnesses from Jesus and another from Paul in Rom 9:16. How many do we need?

 

[Charlie24]

How many times must the words of Jesus concerning this event be retyped?

John 6:44 "NO MAN CAN COME TO ME EXCEPT, the FATHER which hath sent me, DRAW HIM: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Does this agree with the opening verses about it is Gods choice as to whom the Son is revealed?

Two witnesses from Jesus and another from Paul in Rom 9:16. How many do we need?

In the light of God desiring all to be saved and none to perish, let me explain what John 6:44 actually means.

The Father draws man to Christ through the hearing of the Gospel. God takes the first initiative in drawing through the Spirit.

Then that person will make the choice to accept that draw/calling or reject it.

 

[Samson2020]

Then that person will make the choice to accept that draw/calling or reject it.

In the light of God desiring all to be saved and none to perish, let me explain what John 6:44 actually means.

Hmm, do you mind showing me in that verse John 6:44 where Jesus says anything about accepting?

I read that the Father calls one to the Son, then the Son will raise Him up at the last day, nothing about accepting or rejecting.

How about acceptance or rejection in Pauls Rom 9:16

 

[Charlie24]

Hmm, do you mind showing me in that verse John 6:44 where Jesus says anything about accepting?

I read that the Father calls one to the Son, then the Son will raise Him up at the last day, nothing about accepting or rejecting.

How about acceptance or rejection in Pauls Rom 9:16

Joshua 24:15

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

It should be obvious to the believer that God is a choice for man. it should be obvious that God has chosen the message of the Cross of Christ through the Spirit to make that initial draw for man to make his choice.

If you haven't yet come to this truth, then you probably haven't experienced the draw/calling.

 

[Samson2020]

Joshua 24:15

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

It should be obvious to the believer that God is a choice for man. it should be obvious that God has chosen the message of the Cross of Christ through the Spirit to make that initial draw for man to make his choice.

If you haven't yet come to this truth, then you probably haven't experienced the draw/calling.

OT messages such as this are not worthy to be used for the point your trying to make. Those people in that day could not choose God as they were carnal,
destined to fail. Sure they may have continued for a while but failed none the less. Why? Because it was laways Gods intent to reconcile man back to
Himself through His on;y begotten Son.
If after God has called you, not you choosing Him, and you have tasted of the gift (HG baptism) then you actually do have a choice to follow Jesus in your
own cross experience or avoid it at your cost. Doesn't mean you don't know, just that when resurrection time comes you may be considered one of
the least in the kingdom.

Parable of the sower. Those who bare no fruit, and will have no increase.

As far as experiencing the draw calling, I was baptized by Him while driving over 20 yrs ago, I pray in unknown tongues, have cast out unclean spirits,
have been sent by Him to say and or do certain things, layed hands on the sick as He instructed and they recovered. These are all signs of a true believer.
Just because you do not understand, do not make assumptions concerning anyone for that matter.
After all what did you receive that God did not GIVE you, and if it was a gift then why boast as though it were not. Somehow, and it boggles the mind
that so called Christians today do not understand that simple fact, it is a gift. But rather condemn those who have not received the gift yet. We know they
are still under condemnation, so why lay more condemnation on them.
Doesn't sound like the Gospel of reconciliation to me, but rather self righteous in ones own eyes.

 

[Charlie24]

OT messages such as this are not worthy to be used for the point your trying to make. Those people in that day could not choose God as they were carnal,
destined to fail. Sure they may have continued for a while but failed none the less. Why? Because it was laways Gods intent to reconcile man back to
Himself through His on;y begotten Son.
If after God has called you, not you choosing Him, and you have tasted of the gift (HG baptism) then you actually do have a choice to follow Jesus in your
own cross experience or avoid it at your cost. Doesn't mean you don't know, just that when resurrection time comes you may be considered one of
the least in the kingdom.

Parable of the sower. Those who bare no fruit, and will have no increase.

As far as experiencing the draw calling, I was baptized by Him while driving over 20 yrs ago, I pray in unknown tongues, have cast out unclean spirits,
have been sent by Him to say and or do certain things, layed hands on the sick as He instructed and they recovered. These are all signs of a true believer.
Just because you do not understand, do not make assumptions concerning anyone for that matter.
After all what did you receive that God did not GIVE you, and if it was a gift then why boast as though it were not. Somehow, and it boggles the mind
that so called Christians today do not understand that simple fact, it is a gift. But rather condemn those who have not received the gift yet. We know they
are still under condemnation, so why lay more condemnation on them.
Doesn't sound like the Gospel of reconciliation to me, but rather self righteous in ones own eyes.

The Old Testament saints were saved the same way we were, by faith in Jesus Christ.

From the beginning, even in the Garden of Eden, the sacrifice of an innocent animal, the shedding of the blood of that animal represented THE SACRIFICE that Christ would make for mankind.

They looked forward to His sacrifice, we look back at His sacrifice.

You are confused on many things, Sam. I pray the Lord will open your eyes to His truth.

 

[Samson2020]

The Old Testament saints were saved the same way we were, by faith in Jesus Christ.

From the beginning, even in the Garden of Eden, the sacrifice of an innocent animal, the shedding of the blood of that animal represented THE SACRIFICE that Christ would make for mankind.

They looked forward to His sacrifice, we look back at His sacrifice.

You are confused on many things, Sam. I pray the Lord will open your eyes to His truth.

Wow your more confused than I even thought. Good day.