The Church Under Fire, Be Aware

[Sue J Love]

Chapter Two

Be Aware

May 26, 2023

“When it was day, the Jews made a plot and bound themselves by an oath neither to eat nor drink till they had killed Paul. There were more than forty who made this conspiracy. They went to the chief priests and elders and said, ‘We have strictly bound ourselves by an oath to taste no food till we have killed Paul. Now therefore you, along with the council, give notice to the tribune to bring him down to you, as though you were going to determine his case more exactly. And we are ready to kill him before he comes near.’

Now the son of Paul's sister heard of their ambush, so he went and entered the barracks and told Paul. Paul called one of the centurions and said, ‘Take this young man to the tribune, for he has something to tell him.’ So he took him and brought him to the tribune and said, ‘Paul the prisoner called me and asked me to bring this young man to you, as he has something to say to you.’

The tribune took him by the hand, and going aside asked him privately, ‘What is it that you have to tell me?’ And he said, ‘The Jews have agreed to ask you to bring Paul down to the council tomorrow, as though they were going to inquire somewhat more closely about him. But do not be persuaded by them, for more than forty of their men are lying in ambush for him, who have bound themselves by an oath neither to eat nor drink till they have killed him. And now they are ready, waiting for your consent.’” (Acts 23:12-21 ESV)

Now I am going to relate this story to our lives and world and church today. For what was going on here was deceptive. It was trickery. It was a trap. For they wanted to kill Paul in order to shut him up, and possibly also in hopes that the movement he was leading would then disperse. It is kind of like what they did with Jesus, hoping that by killing him it would silence not only his voice, but that his followers would disperse and that they would not have to deal with them anymore.

But I want you to be aware that this kind of trickery is going on within the gatherings of the institutional market-driven churches of today, and it is being done by some pastors and other church leaders as a method of controlling people and situations to go the way they want them to go. And even many pastors are being trained in deception and trickery as a way to make things happen the way that suits their marketing goals and purposes.

And my husband and I were church planters twice, so we went through some of this training. And at one of our training sessions we were taught that we are to use (take advantage of) “needy people” in order to get our church plants up and running. But once our church plants were well on their way, we were instructed to get rid of the needy people, for they would weigh us down. Wow! The people in our tiny congregation were needy people. For we were ministering to the hurting, and the rejected, and the neglected.

Also my husband and I had a ministry to college students and to college-age adults out of our home for 7.5 years, from early 1999 to mid-2006, and there were times when we tried to connect this ministry to a local institutional church, because we thought that was the right thing to do. And so we partnered with a local IC (institutional church). We provided the college ministry for their congregation, and they provided us with a facility where we could meet. And at first it went well.

But Then…

I was doing some volunteer work at the church office one day when the pastor called me into his office to talk. He asked me, “Would you say that your praise band would draw in large crowds of people from the world?” I knew exactly where he was going with this, and I also knew that this was contrary to our partnership agreement. For we told him our goal in ministry, at that time, was to provide a place for young people where they could feel included, and where they could feel valued and needed and wanted.

What he said he wanted to do was to replace our band with another band, and he wanted me to talk about that with our ministry team. So, I did, and we decided to all meet with him, and we did. And when we met with him, I asked him to tell the group what he told me, and all he would say was, “I would never do that.” So I asked him, if he would never do that, then why did he ask me to ask our ministry team about doing that. But his answer remained, “I would never do that.”

So, what he was doing was a non-denial denial. He neither admitted to saying it nor did he deny saying it. He just said he would never do that. So, afterwards he and I talked more but he still would not answer my question as to why he said that if he never intended to do that. And then their “Session” (of the Presbyterian Church) called me to a meeting. But they made it a prerequisite that I must admit I lied about the pastor before I could come to their meeting. But I didn’t lie. I am not the one who was being deceptive. And I had been totally submissive.

So I asked the Session if they would remove that requirement and they refused. So, I could not attend their meeting, because I would not lie. And so they put me on church discipline, which is totally against the Scriptures and the whole purpose for church discipline. But what they did, and a lawyer was one of the ones involved in this, would be like if someone accused you of a crime, but before they would give you a fair trial to determine guilt or innocence, you would be required to admit guilt. If you could (or would) not admit guilt, then to jail you went, no trial at all.

Do you see how absolutely evil what they did was? That lawyer knew better than that, and so did that pastor. I think the Session did not really know what was going on, in my opinion, but they were just acting on the word of the pastor and of the lawyer. But they had to know that what they were doing was wrong. You don’t make someone admit guilt before you even give them a chance to be heard. That is criminal! But so many of these ICs are being taught to use deception and trickery in order to get people to do what they want them to do, and/or in order to get rid of the undesirables.

Bottom line, we pulled our ministry out of that IC, and we took it back to our home, which is where I believe the Lord wanted it to be anyway. And the reason the Lord is having me share this with you is so you will be aware of the kinds of trickery and deception and manipulations which are going on in many of these ICs which are market-driven and which are trying to draw in large crowds of people from the world. Since I was not on board with what they were up to they found a way to silence me, but they lost access to our ministry to college students as a result. So, keep your eyes and ears open.

P.S. This took place 22 years ago. Recently I had the occasion to ask this same pastor if I came to his church if he would welcome me. At first he "beat around the bush," so I asked him again, and there was no response. So, the answer to me was "No!" I would not be welcome if I came to his church.

Oh, to Be Like Thee, Blessed Redeemer

Lyrics by Thomas O. Chisholm, 1897
Music by W. J. Kirkpatrick, 1897

Oh, to be like Thee! blessèd Redeemer,
This is my constant longing and prayer;
Gladly I’ll forfeit all of earth’s treasures,
Jesus, Thy perfect likeness to wear.

Oh, to be like Thee! full of compassion,
Loving, forgiving, tender and kind,
Helping the helpless, cheering the fainting,
Seeking the wandering sinner to find.

O to be like Thee! lowly in spirit,
Holy and harmless, patient and brave;
Meekly enduring cruel reproaches,
Willing to suffer others to save.

O to be like Thee! while I am pleading,
Pour out Thy Spirit, fill with Thy love;
Make me a temple meet for Thy dwelling,
Fit me for life and Heaven above.

Oh, to be like Thee! Oh, to be like Thee,
Blessèd Redeemer, pure as Thou art;
Come in Thy sweetness, come in Thy fullness;
Stamp Thine own image deep on my heart.

Caution: This link may contain ads

The Church Under Fire, Be Aware
An Original Work originally posted May 26, 2023
Reposted January 28, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

 

[Garee]

Chapter Two

Be Aware

May 26, 2023

“When it was day, the Jews made a plot and bound themselves by an oath neither to eat nor drink till they had killed Paul. There were more than forty who made this conspiracy. They went to the chief priests and elders and said, ‘We have strictly bound ourselves by an oath to taste no food till we have killed Paul. Now therefore you, along with the council, give notice to the tribune to bring him down to you, as though you were going to determine his case more exactly. And we are ready to kill him before he comes near.’

Now the son of Paul's sister heard of their ambush, so he went and entered the barracks and told Paul. Paul called one of the centurions and said, ‘Take this young man to the tribune, for he has something to tell him.’ So he took him and brought him to the tribune and said, ‘Paul the prisoner called me and asked me to bring this young man to you, as he has something to say to you.’

The tribune took him by the hand, and going aside asked him privately, ‘What is it that you have to tell me?’ And he said, ‘The Jews have agreed to ask you to bring Paul down to the council tomorrow, as though they were going to inquire somewhat more closely about him. But do not be persuaded by them, for more than forty of their men are lying in ambush for him, who have bound themselves by an oath neither to eat nor drink till they have killed him. And now they are ready, waiting for your consent.’” (Acts 23:12-21 ESV)

Now I am going to relate this story to our lives and world and church today. For what was going on here was deceptive. It was trickery. It was a trap. For they wanted to kill Paul in order to shut him up, and possibly also in hopes that the movement he was leading would then disperse. It is kind of like what they did with Jesus, hoping that by killing him it would silence not only his voice, but that his followers would disperse and that they would not have to deal with them anymore.

But I want you to be aware that this kind of trickery is going on within the gatherings of the institutional market-driven churches of today, and it is being done by some pastors and other church leaders as a method of controlling people and situations to go the way they want them to go. And even many pastors are being trained in deception and trickery as a way to make things happen the way that suits their marketing goals and purposes.

And my husband and I were church planters twice, so we went through some of this training. And at one of our training sessions we were taught that we are to use (take advantage of) “needy people” in order to get our church plants up and running. But once our church plants were well on their way, we were instructed to get rid of the needy people, for they would weigh us down. Wow! The people in our tiny congregation were needy people. For we were ministering to the hurting, and the rejected, and the neglected.

Also my husband and I had a ministry to college students and to college-age adults out of our home for 7.5 years, from early 1999 to mid-2006, and there were times when we tried to connect this ministry to a local institutional church, because we thought that was the right thing to do. And so we partnered with a local IC (institutional church). We provided the college ministry for their congregation, and they provided us with a facility where we could meet. And at first it went well.

But Then…

I was doing some volunteer work at the church office one day when the pastor called me into his office to talk. He asked me, “Would you say that your praise band would draw in large crowds of people from the world?” I knew exactly where he was going with this, and I also knew that this was contrary to our partnership agreement. For we told him our goal in ministry, at that time, was to provide a place for young people where they could feel included, and where they could feel valued and needed and wanted.

What he said he wanted to do was to replace our band with another band, and he wanted me to talk about that with our ministry team. So, I did, and we decided to all meet with him, and we did. And when we met with him, I asked him to tell the group what he told me, and all he would say was, “I would never do that.” So I asked him, if he would never do that, then why did he ask me to ask our ministry team about doing that. But his answer remained, “I would never do that.”

So, what he was doing was a non-denial denial. He neither admitted to saying it nor did he deny saying it. He just said he would never do that. So, afterwards he and I talked more but he still would not answer my question as to why he said that if he never intended to do that. And then their “Session” (of the Presbyterian Church) called me to a meeting. But they made it a prerequisite that I must admit I lied about the pastor before I could come to their meeting. But I didn’t lie. I am not the one who was being deceptive. And I had been totally submissive.

So I asked the Session if they would remove that requirement and they refused. So, I could not attend their meeting, because I would not lie. And so they put me on church discipline, which is totally against the Scriptures and the whole purpose for church discipline. But what they did, and a lawyer was one of the ones involved in this, would be like if someone accused you of a crime, but before they would give you a fair trial to determine guilt or innocence, you would be required to admit guilt. If you could (or would) not admit guilt, then to jail you went, no trial at all.

Do you see how absolutely evil what they did was? That lawyer knew better than that, and so did that pastor. I think the Session did not really know what was going on, in my opinion, but they were just acting on the word of the pastor and of the lawyer. But they had to know that what they were doing was wrong. You don’t make someone admit guilt before you even give them a chance to be heard. That is criminal! But so many of these ICs are being taught to use deception and trickery in order to get people to do what they want them to do, and/or in order to get rid of the undesirables.

Bottom line, we pulled our ministry out of that IC, and we took it back to our home, which is where I believe the Lord wanted it to be anyway. And the reason the Lord is having me share this with you is so you will be aware of the kinds of trickery and deception and manipulations which are going on in many of these ICs which are market-driven and which are trying to draw in large crowds of people from the world. Since I was not on board with what they were up to they found a way to silence me, but they lost access to our ministry to college students as a result. So, keep your eyes and ears open.

P.S. This took place 22 years ago. Recently I had the occasion to ask this same pastor if I came to his church if he would welcome me. At first he "beat around the bush," so I asked him again, and there was no response. So, the answer to me was "No!" I would not be welcome if I came to his church.

Oh, to Be Like Thee, Blessed Redeemer

Lyrics by Thomas O. Chisholm, 1897
Music by W. J. Kirkpatrick, 1897

Oh, to be like Thee! blessèd Redeemer,
This is my constant longing and prayer;
Gladly I’ll forfeit all of earth’s treasures,
Jesus, Thy perfect likeness to wear.

Oh, to be like Thee! full of compassion,
Loving, forgiving, tender and kind,
Helping the helpless, cheering the fainting,
Seeking the wandering sinner to find.

O to be like Thee! lowly in spirit,
Holy and harmless, patient and brave;
Meekly enduring cruel reproaches,
Willing to suffer others to save.

O to be like Thee! while I am pleading,
Pour out Thy Spirit, fill with Thy love;
Make me a temple meet for Thy dwelling,
Fit me for life and Heaven above.

Oh, to be like Thee! Oh, to be like Thee,
Blessèd Redeemer, pure as Thou art;
Come in Thy sweetness, come in Thy fullness;
Stamp Thine own image deep on my heart.

Caution: This link may contain ads

The Church Under Fire, Be Aware
An Original Work originally posted May 26, 2023
Reposted January 28, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Thanks great testimony of the ministry of two. Both you and your wife

It would seem to expose the Confederacy. What I would call strange fire adding and taking away of the power of the word as if coming from dying mankind .

Violating the union laws (two) not to add or subtract .Deuteronomy 4 and Revelation 22.

it was demonstrated with Aarons two sons first day entering the priesthood (volunteer) In order to increase their false fame, the ceremonial shadow was a sign to the whole unbelieving world. . not to them self. (I did it, it proves it ).

In that way the ceremonial demonstration as a shadow is still used as a sign to the unbelieving word. 1 Corinthians 11 believers have prophecy till the end

When they make it about themselves there no room for ministries like yours.

 

[twcstp]

That's the Lord Jesus exposing satan and equipping you and your ministry for the wonderful works of the Lord. He doesn't want His children being ruled over by satan. I'm surprised that after 22 years, his heart was still rock hard. I'm afraid he's compromise by satan in the same way that judas iscariot was, and possibly doesn't even believe in God. Thankfully, you and your team went to where God wanted you; He ain't gonna have YOU bowing down to the devil!


Sadly, I've seen this kind of stuff before too, but not so outright & wicked. Some churches really are as one of our brothers would call it, store fronts.. just evil businesses. Something as simple as 'using' something, an object, an attraction, whatever it is, 'using' it to draw people, rather than relying & depending on God's Holy Spirit and His Word, pushes the Holy Spirit away... whatever is not of faith is sin. Now, I'm not going to throw stones, but using food trucks as attractions, and then using the teachings of Christ to encourage others to give of their money, that's wrong and it dries up the Spirit. It doesn't mean God isn't there, HE is, but this kind of deceptive work in the churches limits Him, because HE responds to our faith, not our wallets.

 

[twcstp]

Thank you for equipping me as well with this record. It's very useful for discerning more difficult deceptions & manipulations. I'm sorry you went through that, but thank God that He pull you out of a place that truly did not love you ... or God.

 

[twcstp]

Thank you for equipping us. God bless you in Jesus Name. Amen.

 

[Sue J Love]

That's the Lord Jesus exposing satan and equipping you and your ministry for the wonderful works of the Lord. He doesn't want His children being ruled over by satan. I'm surprised that after 22 years, his heart was still rock hard. I'm afraid he's compromise by satan in the same way that judas iscariot was, and possibly doesn't even believe in God. Thankfully, you and your team went to where God wanted you; He ain't gonna have YOU bowing down to the devil!


Sadly, I've seen this kind of stuff before too, but not so outright & wicked. Some churches really are as one of our brothers would call it, store fronts.. just evil businesses. Something as simple as 'using' something, an object, an attraction, whatever it is, 'using' it to draw people, rather than relying & depending on God's Holy Spirit and His Word, pushes the Holy Spirit away... whatever is not of faith is sin. Now, I'm not going to throw stones, but using food trucks as attractions, and then using the teachings of Christ to encourage others to give of their money, that's wrong and it dries up the Spirit. It doesn't mean God isn't there, HE is, but this kind of deceptive work in the churches limits Him, because HE responds to our faith, not our wallets.

twcstp, thank you for sharing your thoughts on this subject. Lots of bad things are going on in the name of Jesus, in the name of Christianity, and in the name of church, which have nothing to do with the biblical body of Christ and how we are to work together as that body under the leadership and direction and guidance of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is being pushed out of these gatherings in favor of marketing schemes and tricks in order to draw in large crowds of people from the world. Now, with regard to financial giving, the Scriptures do teach that we are to give to the needs of the saints but that our giving is to be from our hearts, not under compulsion.

 

[Sue J Love]

Thank you for equipping us. God bless you in Jesus Name. Amen.

Thank you for that word of encouragement. God bless you, and all praise be to the Lord Jesus.

 

[Sue J Love]

Thank you for equipping me as well with this record. It's very useful for discerning more difficult deceptions & manipulations. I'm sorry you went through that, but thank God that He pull you out of a place that truly did not love you ... or God.

Thank you. I appreciate your tender words to me. This writing is just one chapter of a book the Lord had me write two years ago detailing some of my difficult church experiences. There are 7 chapters in all, so there will be more that I will be sharing. But this is not for the purpose to complain or to have a pity party, but to make us all aware of the kinds of things which are going on inside "the church" in the name of Jesus and in the name of Christianity which are destroying the church from the inside out, so that we do not fall into that trap and/or so that we do not let what is happening discourage and dishearten us to where we give up. There is hope, and there is healing in the Lord Jesus, so we must persevere. But what I can share here is that the Lord allowed all these difficult experiences in my life to make me into the person that I am today so that he can use me in the way that he is using me. Through it all I became much stronger in my faith and in my determination to obey my Lord despite all obstacles and people against me. Again, thank you for your encouraging words. Glory to God!

 

[Sue J Love]

Thanks great testimony of the ministry of two. Both you and your wife

It would seem to expose the Confederacy. What I would call strange fire adding and taking away of the power of the word as if coming from dying mankind .

Violating the union laws (two) not to add or subtract .Deuteronomy 4 and Revelation 22.

it was demonstrated with Aarons two sons first day entering the priesthood (volunteer) In order to increase their false fame, the ceremonial shadow was a sign to the whole unbelieving world. . not to them self. (I did it, it proves it ).

In that way the ceremonial demonstration as a shadow is still used as a sign to the unbelieving word. 1 Corinthians 11 believers have prophecy till the end

When they make it about themselves there no room for ministries like yours.

Garee, thank you for reading and for responding and for sharing your thoughts on this subject. And thank you for your words of encouragement to me. Much appreciated. All glory to God. God bless you. Sue

 

[twcstp]

I would love to buy your book and put it on my shelf for study.

Sorry that you went through that. You did amazing and stood boldly before false prophets & were cast out; the pharisees did the same to Jesus and His Apostles. You're God's child and the book you wrote will enter into the hands of all whom it is meant for, without fail, in the Name of Jesus. All Glory to God.

It's a shame to see anybody pose as a saint and work as a devil, and those people need serious deliverance & must repent; but you, be encouraged today in Jesus Name. you have an amazing story, and your courage is beautiful in Jesus. Amen.

 

[Sue J Love]

I would love to buy your book and put it on my shelf for study.

Sorry that you went through that. You did amazing and stood boldly before false prophets & were cast out; the pharisees did the same to Jesus and His Apostles. You're God's child and the book you wrote will enter into the hands of all whom it is meant for, without fail, in the Name of Jesus. All Glory to God.

It's a shame to see anybody pose as a saint and work as a devil, and those people need serious deliverance & must repent; but you, be encouraged today in Jesus Name. you have an amazing story, and your courage is beautiful in Jesus. Amen.

Thank you so much for this wonderful encouragement. God bless you. What I do and what I share online is free of charge. I do all for the glory of God as the Lord leads. I will give you a link to the book later when I am on my computer. Again, thank you for this blessing. Sue

 

[twcstp]

Thank you so much for this wonderful encouragement. God bless you. What I do and what I share online is free of charge. I do all for the glory of God as the Lord leads. I will give you a link to the book later when I am on my computer. Again, thank you for this blessing. Sue

Wonderful, thank you so much.

 

[Sue J Love]

Wonderful, thank you so much.

Give me a day or two. As I have been posting this online, one chapter at a time, I have been noticing some things I had missing, like the address for a specific passage of Scripture, so I have been making corrections as I go along, and so I think I will go back to the original document, as whole, and make those corrections, before I give you the link to it. You might appreciate knowing where a passage of Scripture is quoted from. I won't forget you, though. Talk to you again soon. Sue

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Sister,
I remember you giving this testimony of what happened years ago here on TJ, and in the telling it has not changed one iota, except for the P.S! Which speaks to me even more in the retelling. Sadly, that Pastor will be held to account for this, and I am sure other like actions that have not made the light of day yet.

Thank-you for staying faithful to His Word!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Sue J Love]

Dear Sister,
I remember you giving this testimony of what happened years ago here on TJ, and in the telling it has not changed one iota, except for the P.S! Which speaks to me even more in the retelling. Sadly, that Pastor will be held to account for this, and I am sure other like actions that have not made the light of day yet.

Thank-you for staying faithful to His Word!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Nick thank you so much for your comment here and for remembering when I shared this before. Sadly, this kind of stuff happens more often than what people are usually being made aware of. Hopefully this will serve as an encouragement to others who have had similar experiences that through Jesus we can endure and we can be stronger in our walks of faith because of what we have been through. All glory to God. Thank you so much for your thoughtful and encouraging words. They blessed my heart. Sue