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The nature of God from the Bible

StephenC

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
22
Imagine that we are good friends. One day we are talking:
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Me: Wow, you will not believe this new book I've been reading!

You: What's it about?

Me: It is a manual for living a better life. It is also a guide to creating a better society for ourselves and our children. It has changed my life!

You: That sounds like an important book. Who wrote it?

Me: The author is supposed to be the smartest person in the universe.

You: That's amazing -- if the author is the smartest person in the universe, the book must be absolutely brilliant. I can't wait to see it. Do you have a copy with you?

Me: Absolutely! I carry it with me everywhere I go! Here, have a look for yourself...
You open the book to a random page, and you find this:
Any of the people of Israel, or of the aliens who reside in Israel, who give any of their offspring to Molech shall be put to death; the people of the land shall stone them to death. I myself will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people, because they have given of their offspring to Molech, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. And if the people of the land should ever close their eyes to them, when they give of their offspring to Molech, and do not put them to death, I myself will set my face against them and against their family, and will cut them off from among their people, them and all who follow them in prostituting themselves to Molech.

If any turn to mediums and wizards, prostituting themselves to them, I will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.

If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20]

You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment.
You: I thought you said that this is written by the most intelligent person in the universe. If we are going to follow what this author says, we have to kill half the people in America. We are supposed to kill everyone who has cursed his father or mother, everyone who has committed adultery, and every homosexual.

Me: Well, that's in the old testament, you see. The book is really two books, and the "old" part of the book doesn't really apply.

You: Are you saying that the smartest person in the universe once wanted us to kill every adulterer and homosexual, but then changed his mind? That somehow makes it better? If the "old part" no longer applies, then why did you hand it to me when I asked to see the book?

Me: Well, parts of it do apply.

You: Didn't you just tell me that it doesn't apply?
You open the book to another random page and you find this:
When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.

Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee. But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution.

Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death.

Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death. Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.

When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery.

When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. [Exodus, chapter 21]
Again, you are dumfounded. Here the author of the book is advocating slavery, the branding of slaves, and the wholesale beating of slaves. You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment.
You: You have to be kidding me. Here the "smartest person in the universe" is telling us that slavery is OK and that we are free to beat our slaves.
Watch the video

You open the book to another random page and you find this:
I desire, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument; also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. [1 Timothy, chapter 2]
You are nearly speechless. But you manage to find your voice.
You: Is this some kind of joke? "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man." That is totally sexist! In America, there are millions of female teachers and we have women throughout our corporate and govenment hierarchies. No intelligent person believes that women should be silenced.
As you page through the book further you find that it is totally sexist from beginning to end.

You keep opening the book to random pages, and nearly everything you find is utter nonsense. Either it is meaningless, completely irrelevant, disgusting or downright wrong.

If you are a scientist it is even worse, and it starts with the very first line:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...
That's not true. In the beginning a natural event created the universe as we know it, and the earth did not form until billions of years later. The creation story in Genesis is completely wrong. Simply read Genesis and you can see it. For example, the Bible says that light and darkness are created after the water but before the sun. Everyone knows that the sun came first, then the planet and its rotation (which is what causes light and darkness to occur on a daily basis) and then the water, and this all happened over million of years. There are many other problems with the Bible:
Man did not come from a handful of dust through some mythological being. Man evolved from other species like every other living thing has for hundreds of millions of years.
The Bible talks about a world-wide flood that covered earth in 5.5 miles of water and killed everything, yet we know it never happened. That is clear from the archeolgical record.
There was no tower of Babel where God confounded the languages of mankind.
The list goes on and on. The Bible is nonsense in a thousand different scientific ways.

Ask yourself this simple question: Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? Why doesn't a book written by an omniscient being leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement? If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight? Wouldn't you expect the author to tell us things that scientists have not been able to discover yet?

Yet, when we open the Bible and actually read it, we find it is nothing like that at all. Instead of leaving us in awe, it leaves us dumbfounded by all of the nonsense and backwardness that it contains. If you read what the Bible actually says, you find that the Bible is ridiculous. The examples shown above barely scratch the surface of the Bible's numerous problems. If we are honest with ourselves, it is obvious that an "all-knowing" God had absolutely nothing to do with this book.

The reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary. The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men. A book that advocates senseless murder, slavery and the oppression of women has no place in our society today.
 
You make a very good point ! . If you pick up the Bible and randomly read unrelated scriptures you will learn little. You need to view the whole of scripture to form an accurate opinion of the Author.
It is sad when people today scream for liberty and freedom from regulation yet have no idea why society if full of strife. Ever wonder why the world dives deeper and deeper into depravity.

God knows why.


1Co 3:19-20 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. (20) And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
 
Take it as a whole, you say, and don't read bits. Are you saying God used call for the death penalty for those who struck their parents but changed the rules? But if God knows what is best for us and how to live, why did He make such rules back in Moses' day?
 
God made rules because people are inherently sinful and do not how to rule themselves justly.
Back in Moses' day God separated a people for Himself and they were to be a holy people and stand out from the heathen. The laws God set were to guide their behaviour. These laws were for the Israelites only and showed them their sinfulness. Laws and rules showed them when they did something wrong. If you had no rules how would you know what was wrong/sin?

Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law...

Don't you ever wonder why there is so much hideous crime in the world? People seem undeterred by most of our modern punishments.
We have no real grasp on perfect justice or proper regulation.


Jesus came to show us a better way.


Mat 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" (37) Jesus said to him, 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' (38) This is the first and great commandment. (39) And the second is like it: 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' (40) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."


If you love God and neighbour you would not wish to break any of God's laws.

And Jesus paid the price with His blood for the sins of the whole world.
This new covenant opened the door for forgiveness apart from continual sacrifices.

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


So the option is presented to everyone to repent and believe the Gospel. For all have sinned and fallen short of God's holy standards. Rom 3:23
The wages of sin is death but the gift of eternal life is in believing Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 6:23


Eternal life awaits those who accept the Gospel and in the next life, after the final resurrection, there will be no more evil.


Rev 21:4-7 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. (5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. (7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


Jesus is offering you eternal life in a perfect sinless world. You should listen to him.
 
So you support the death penalty for striking your parents, and for working on the Sabbath? You think this is a just and proper penalty, as set down by God? If you were in government, would you kill anyone who worked on Sunday?
 
Yes I would support any law God makes. He knows better than me.
As I showed you already though these laws are no longer in force.
They were for a different time and served their purpose.
We have a new covenant.

What laws do you approve of ?
 
So why did God suddenly change the rules? Surely the right way to live is the right way for all time. Now suddenly we are allowed to strike our parents?

You still have the problem of subjugation of women, which is still in force though out of date.
 
So why did God suddenly change the rules? Surely the right way to live is the right way for all time. Now suddenly we are allowed to strike our parents?

You still have the problem of subjugation of women, which is still in force though out of date.

God always had the plan to come to earth and take our sin apon Himself.Along the way though we needed to see how unable we are to meet his standards and rule ourselves. God made the new covenant because we were unable to keep the old. In this new covenant I am sure if you love God and neaighbour you would not strike your parents. What do you think?

You will need to tell me your meaning of "subjugation of women".
The scriptures about women teaching, in the copy/paste from the web you posted, is in church headship matters. Women can be teachers and even your work boss. The headship arrangement in marriage and church though was set by God. Do you not believe the man should accept the responsibilties of headship in his family?
 
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Same old tired unconvincing arguments.

Let's see if you can follow logic. Tell me if you these assumptions about God are true:

1. God is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent.
2. God is perfect.
3. God is love.
4 God, being perfect, can only create perfeclty.
 
No, I believe in equality and that's how it is with me and my wife. We do and decide everything together. The old myth of the woman being the temptress and the cause of our downfall is sexist in the extreme and shows up in the lack of true feminine influence in the religion. Of course, now some churches allow women to be ordained, which I guess is an improvment you would disappprove of. Here's another reason why Christianity is demondtrably false. It's broken up into tiny little fragments, each one convinced they are the only ones who know the true meaning of the bible and the only ones who can interpret it correctly. So much for God's word being clear.
 
Same old tired unconvincing arguments.

Let's see if you can follow logic. Tell me if you these assumptions about God are true:

1. God is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent.
2. God is perfect.
3. God is love.
4 God, being perfect, can only create perfeclty.

You don't get to decide how or what God creates.

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
 
Is God perfect or not? Obviously not, because you can't answer the question. You believe but what you believe makes no sense. In fact, it's worse than that, because your God makes mistakes, is jealous, gets angry, and tortures people forever. Your God is malevolent.He loves punishing his creatures in the name of justice. Fortunately for me, I know that hell is just a silly story to scare the children. It works really well for that, but not for grown-ups.
 
No, I believe in equality and that's how it is with me and my wife. We do and decide everything together. The old myth of the woman being the temptress and the cause of our downfall is sexist in the extreme and shows up in the lack of true feminine influence in the religion. Of course, now some churches allow women to be ordained, which I guess is an improvment you would disappprove of. Here's another reason why Christianity is demondtrably false. It's broken up into tiny little fragments, each one convinced they are the only ones who know the true meaning of the bible and the only ones who can interpret it correctly. So much for God's word being clear.

I don't see in scripture where Eve was the temptress to Adam. Is that what you mean? Eve offered the fruit to Adam and he took it. He should have known better and showed the strength and obedience of a Godly man.

Because people have different interpretations doesn't make the bible unclear. It shows how people struggle to understand.
Read it for yourself and come to your own understanding without relying on the web to provide your knowledge of scripture.

Many people do not like the idea of the headship arrangement God set in place in marriage. this headship is not about dominance thougfh as you suggest. It is a loving arrangement that reflects Christs love for us.

Eph 5:23-28 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. (24) Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. (25) Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; (26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, (27) That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. (28) So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.


You are to treat your wife as you would expect to be treated yourself.
There's that new covenant agian.
 
"Subject in all things" sounds like being under dominance to me. Isn't Jesus the Lord? So a wife being to her husband as the church is to Jesus makes the husband lord of the wife. You don't even believe what the bible says.
 
I've read the bible many times. The church studies I attended didn't go into Leviticus, and no wonder. All that stoning and the death penalty for everything. That malevolent God again.
 
Is God perfect or not? Obviously not, because you can't answer the question. You believe but what you believe makes no sense. In fact, it's worse than that, because your God makes mistakes, is jealous, gets angry, and tortures people forever. Your God is malevolent.He loves punishing his creatures in the name of justice. Fortunately for me, I know that hell is just a silly story to scare the children. It works really well for that, but not for grown-ups.


Yes God is perfect. We are not because we sin. God created us as beings with the ability to make our own decisions. You do appreciate that don't you?
God has made no mistakes, we have. You seem to want to blame God for our choices. Would you prefer that we had no free will?


In the next life, after the resurrection, we will be made incorruptible.

1Co 15:52-54 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.



The wages of sin is death. Rom 6:23
 
I've read the bible many times. The church studies I attended didn't go into Leviticus, and no wonder. All that stoning and the death penalty for everything. That malevolent God again.

God has the task of being both loving and just. You cannot be just without delivering punishment for wrong doing.
I am sorry to hear the church you attended didn't teach the whole of the scriptures. You would understand how God has shown abundant mercy along with justice. God takes no pleasure from needing to punish sin.

Eze_33:11 Say to them: 'As I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'

But He disciplines those He loves.
 
"Subject in all things" sounds like being under dominance to me. Isn't Jesus the Lord? So a wife being to her husband as the church is to Jesus makes the husband lord of the wife. You don't even believe what the bible says.

You want to see headship as a domination thing. I see it as a loving arrangement God put in place. The man takes the lead. I can see why non believers do not like this arrangement as it adds responsibility to the man.
Husbands should love their wives as Jesus loves the church.
 
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I've read the bible many times. The church studies I attended didn't go into Leviticus, and no wonder. All that stoning and the death penalty for everything. That malevolent God again.

There is such a thing that we call justice, In the world we live in if someone makes a mistake then we want the appropriate punishment to be given to him (Prison, death,....)

God is the ultimate judge and he will judge people when they are wrong. I find nothing wrong in that. Why don't you stop posting such articles? If you are a member of this site i believe and hope you've come to learn more about god.
 
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