The Old Testament ... The New Testament

[Admon Mikha'el]

The Old Testament Is The New Testament Concealed, The New Testament Is The Old Testament Revealed.

What do you think? Can Christians dispense with the old testament as some say?

 

[PloughBoy]

The Old Testament Is The New Testament Concealed, The New Testament Is The Old Testament Revealed.

What do you think? Can Christians dispense with the old testament as some say?

Do you mean to "To do without"? if so, it cannot be done. How can anything exists "Without GOD" For "THE WORD" is GOD! and nothing can exists without "GOD". For "The WORD" has ALWAYS existed With GOD.

But I understand for the world and and over "99,9" % of all Christians do Not Believe, that "The WORD" is GOD! For the Finite Mind cannot, as simple as it is, Cannot AND WILL NOT, wrap their thoughts around that,, for it is, "Incomprehensible" to their "Corrupted, Finite minds."

King James Bible Luke 21
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. {I do perceive The WORD dwells, also in "ETERNITY". where there is no time or Space}

New King James Version
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. {For Heaven and Earth is Temporary} The WORD is Not!

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

Luke 16:17
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

The Unlearn do not cannot understand The depthless of This Theological Truth, The Thought is Beyond The FINITE's MIND.

Talk to Me JESUS! Talk to me! Although many do not hear, But I hear you!

My Sheep hear's my Voice!

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

What do you think? Can Christians dispense with the old testament as some say?

Only if they understand that the Torah, first five books, are absolutely essential in order to understand the NT and to develop a biblical world view. The blueprint for the 6000 years of human history and 1000 years of the millennial kingdom is laid out in the first chapter of Genesis. The gentile church did NOT replace Israel and render them obsolete, the gentiles are grafted into Israel to succeed what Israel had failed at, and eventually, bring Israel back to God.

 

[Bill Taylor]

The Holy Bible is composed of the misnamed Old Testament and the misnamed New Testament, no matter the version chosen, save corrupted versions. The Scriptures compose one book with one Major message, and that is of Salvation verses Damknation throughout eternity. The Jewish Version, the original Earth Available Version is also an incomplete version and does not complete the message of salvation.

 

[Waggles]

The gentile church did NOT replace Israel and render them obsolete,

No the lost northern kingdom of Israel [as distinct from the southern kingdom of Judah] became Christian and continued the plan of salvation to the world.
Ezekiel 37:15 The word of the LORD came to me:
16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’
17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.

When Christ Jesus returns in power and glory and enters Jerusalem then he will make Israel and Judah one nation again.

 

[PloughBoy]

The Holy Bible is composed of the misnamed Old Testament and the misnamed New Testament, no matter the version chosen, save corrupted versions. The Scriptures compose one book with one Major message, and that is of Salvation verses Damknation throughout eternity. The Jewish Version, the original Earth Available Version is also an incomplete version and does not complete the message of salvation.

May I ask what "Critical Biblical Studies" did you major in? and did you do a "Thesis" and at what "Institution of Theological Studies" you perform this work? That you can back up the statement you have just made. Show the proof and well documented. So we can investigate that your work is true and you just have not copy or robbed some one else research. and pass it off as your own "Theological Research Studies".

Remember

Matthew 7:2 For with the same judgment you pronounce, you ...​

https://biblehub.com › matthew

"For In The Same Way You Judge Others, You Will Be Judged, And With The Measure You Use, It Will Be Measured To You. ... For You Will Be Treated As You Treat ..."

I hope you Laughing Because I think I am going to like playing with you!

I going to make you famous! and Highly favored!

PloughBoy

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

No the lost northern kingdom of Israel [as distinct from the southern kingdom of Judah] became Christian and continued the plan of salvation to the world.
Ezekiel 37:15 The word of the LORD came to me:
16 “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’
17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand.

When Christ Jesus returns in power and glory and enters Jerusalem then he will make Israel and Judah one nation again.

No, Israelites don't become Christians, it's the opposite - we're ADOPTED into those ten tribes and become a part of the commonwealth of Israel. In other words, we become Israelites. Not Jews, but Israelites. All Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews, as Judah is only consisted of two tribes. This is not about pedigree. There was this one event that some Jews personally assaulted Yeshua by saying, "we're not born of fornication, we're Abraham's seeds," they were implying that Yeshua was born of fornication, while they were biological descendants of Abraham. That was immediately rebuked by Yeshua, and then explained by Paul in Galatians 3:15-18, that all who are in Christ are the real seeds of Abraham.

 

[Waggles]

All Jews are Israelites,

Not true
Jews are of Judah and Israel was taken away so that the plan of salvation would continue through the seed of Abraham through faith [which the Jews failed at seriously many times and still continue to fail at today].
Ephraim represents the "lost" ten tribes of Israel and they became Christian Europe and their children in the New World.

Romans 9:6 But not as though the word of God hath failed. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
9:7 neither, because they are Abraham’s seed, are all children but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
9:8 That is, the children of the flesh- they are not children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.
Romans 10:19 But I say, Did Israel not know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy with what is no nation, With a nation void of understanding will I enrage you.
10:20 And Isaiah is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I became manifest to them that asked not of me.

Jeremiah 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
31:32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.
31:33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
31:34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbour and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity,
and I will remember their sin no more.”

God has made his new covenant with the house of Israel - Pentecost > the Spirit-filled ekklesia with signs following. A new and living way through the Spirit of God and not the letter of the Law.
Judah has not embraced nor received this new covenant as yet. That will occur when Armageddon has almost destroyed Jerusalem and Judah and then God will pour out his Holy Spirit upon the survivors and ...

Zechariah 12:8 On that day the LORD will protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them on that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the angel of the LORD, going before them.
9 And on that day I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

Ezekiel 37:20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes,
21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land.
22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Not true
Jews are of Judah and Israel was taken away so that the plan of salvation would continue through the seed of Abraham through faith [which the Jews failed at seriously many times and still continue to fail at today].
Ephraim represents the "lost" ten tribes of Israel and they became Christian Europe and their children in the New World.

That's the Anglo-Israelite heresy. The Israelites I mentioned were TWELVE TRIBES of Israel, not just the northern kingdom of Israel. Europe became Christian or at least in name not because Europeans were the descendants of the ten lost tribes, but because Paul traveled there and brought the gospel there.

 

[Waggles]

but because Paul traveled there and brought the gospel there.

Why ? Remember Paul wanted to go into Asia Minor but God had other plans concerning the preaching of the gospel
Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul at night: A certain Macedonian man was standing and beseeching him, and saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
16:10 And when he had seen the vision, straightway we sought to go forth into Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel unto them.

Jeremiah 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
31:32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.
31:33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
31:34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbour and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity,
and I will remember their sin no more.”

The new covenant went to the house of Israel not to the house of Judah.
The Jews have learned nothing from 70AD and continue to hate Jesus even denying rabbinical teachings of there being two YHVH in the OT -
Acts 7:51 YE, stiffnecked and uncircumcised in hearts and ears, always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers;
53 ye who received the law unto ordinances of angels, and kept it not.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Why ? Remember Paul wanted to go into Asia Minor but God had other plans concerning the preaching of the gospel

Why? Well how about the fact that there were local Jewish communities in those regions he went - who knew the OT and understood what he was preaching, which was soly based on OT Scripture?

The bottom line is, both the lost ten tribes and the Jews were scattered abroad, but the Jews retained their identities and customes, while the ten tribes lost it, they were fully assimilated into the nations, therefore when the "lost house of Israel" was mentioned, that means all nations, including indigenous hunter gatherer tribes in the jungle.

 

[Waggles]

Why? Well how about the fact that there were local Jewish communities in those regions he went - who knew the OT and understood what he was preaching, which was soley based on OT Scripture?

The bottom line is, both the lost ten tribes and the Jews were scattered abroad, but the Jews retained their identities and customs, while the ten tribes lost it, they were fully assimilated into the nations, therefore when the "lost house of Israel" was mentioned, that means all nations, including indigenous hunter gatherer tribes in the jungle.

You do indeed write some rather fanciful stuff.
Judah is the OT and Ephraim is the NT.
When Christ Jesus returns in power as King of kings he will restore Israel again to being one nation.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You do indeed write some rather fanciful stuff.
Judah is the OT and Ephraim is the NT.
When Christ Jesus returns in power as King of kings he will restore Israel again to being one nation.

There’s nothing “new” in the NT, it’s all about OT in action. I honestly don’t know what your point is.

 

[PloughBoy]

Only if they understand that the Torah, first five books, are absolutely essential in order to understand the NT and to develop a biblical world view. The blueprint for the 6000 years of human history and 1000 years of the millennial kingdom is laid out in the first chapter of Genesis. The gentile church did NOT replace Israel and render them obsolete, the gentiles are grafted into Israel to succeed what Israel had failed at, and eventually, bring Israel back to God.

/

 

[Waggles]

There’s nothing “new” in the NT, it’s all about OT in action. I honestly don’t know what your point is.

Nothing new in the NT !!??? Then why is there a NEW Covenant ??

Matthew 9:17 Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”
Romans 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
1Cor 11:25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions
committed under the first covenant.
Hebrews 10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,
20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,

2Cor 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,
3:8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?
3:9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Nothing new in the NT !!??? Then why is there a NEW Covenant ??

That New Covenant was already written in Jeremiah 31:30-34 and Daniel 9:27. Yeshua didn't make it out of thin air, he FULFILLED that prophecy in the OT, which was further affirmed in these verses in Hebrews.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

This one is specifically talking about the Levite priesthood and animal sacrifice, that was a temporary fix that only COVERED the sin. Yeshua, on the other hand, replaced it with the Melkezedic priesthood. He as the perfect lamb shed His blood, which permenantly washed away our sins, therefore animal sacrifice was legally made obsolete, as told in Dan. 9:27. That doesn't mean the Torah was obsolete, as He came to fulfill it rather than to destroy it (Matt. 5:17-18).

 

[B-A-C]

as told in Dan. 9:27

Dan 9:27 is about the beast committing the abomination of desolation.

Dan 11:31; "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
Dan 12:11; "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Matt 24:15; "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Mark 13:14; "But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

Dan 9:26; "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27; "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

Animals sacrifices are void now, but not because of Daniel 9.

Heb 10:4; For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Dan 9:27 is about the beast committing the abomination of desolation.

Yeah, fulfilled in 70AD, that knocked the final nail in the coffin. That's the "abomination of desolation". If you wanna argue that this final week is the 7 year tribulation, then save it, we have to agree to disagree on that. I'm sick and tired of that narrative. The way I see it, there're six objectives in Daniel 9:24, one is to SEAL the prophecy and vision. When Yeshua was crucified, prophecy and vision were sealed to the Jews as they will see Him NO MORE (Matt. 23:39). In the end, the opposite will happen, prophecy and vision that were sealed will be REVEALED. Plus it makes no sense to put a 2000 year gap of church age between the 69th week and the final one.

 

[PloughBoy]

Nothing new in the NT !!??? Then why is there a NEW Covenant ??

Matthew 9:17 Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”
Romans 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
1Cor 11:25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions
committed under the first covenant.
Hebrews 10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus,
20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,

2Cor 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,
3:8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?
3:9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

Tell it, go head with your bad self, not only are you telling "The Truth" you have Power behind it , "SPIRITUAL POWER" tearing Down demonic STRONGHOLDS! Yes, Now that's how you do it! With being "EMPOWERED" from on HIGH!

Keep going Strong! you know what you have to do! You know who the enemy is, and what it takes!

PloughBoy! "For we are "One of The Armies of GOD!" " Not by power, not by might, but by my Spirit says "The LORD"