The Physical vs the Spiritual.

[B-A-C]

There is obviously a material physical world. We are all in it right now. We can see things, hear things, feel things, touch, taste.
But the Bible says we live in two worlds. This physical world, but also a spiritual, unseen world. Most Christians I know would say this spiritual world is more real than the physical world we see.
Our God is a spirit, and currently seems to exist primarily in the spiritual world.

John 4:24; "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
Php 3:3; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

Jesus was the God who became flesh and dwelt among us. Many believe Jesus is still a flesh being today.

Luke 24:39; "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Even after Jesus was resurrected, He still had flesh and bones. He still ate food. ( Luke 24:42-43; )
Acts 1:9; And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
Acts 1:10; And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.
Acts 1:11; They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

This passage says Jesus will come back, just like He left. In the flesh. In fact one of the main tests for testing the spirit says...

1Jn 4:1; Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2; By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
1Jn 4:3; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

There are a few so called "Christian" denominations, who do not believe Jesus was resurrected in the flesh. I would stay clear of them.

We ourselves also have two natures. A physical nature, and a spiritual nature. Everyone has this, whether they know it or not. Even unsaved people have a spirit.

1Cor 15:42; So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1Cor 15:43; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Cor 15:45; So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1Cor 15:47; The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
1Cor 15:48; As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.
1Cor 15:49; Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

There is a ton of doctrine packed in this passage. I can't cover it all in this thread. But for everyone who has ever had a physical body, they also have a spiritual body.
However, the physical body always exists first. Jesus was an exception of course, He is God. But for the rest of us, everyone else... the physical body comes first.
We weren't spirit children that existed before our physical bodies existed. God may have known what we would be like before we were born. ( Psa 22:10; Gal 1:15; )
But that doesn't mean we existed before then.

But someday we will have a spiritual body. There is a lot of debate about what that means. I just take it at face value. I believe even the un-saved non-believers will have this spiritual body.
It may not be exactly like ours; I don't know. We Christians have eternal life, but even the unsaved live forever. The difference is, where you end up forever. Some will be with Jesus forever,
and some will be in the Lake of Fire forever.

The Bible says there is a war going on all around us. We can't really see it; however we can see glimpses of it, the effects of it.

Eph 6:11; Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12; For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13; Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

2Cor 10:5; We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

There is currently another thread of debate here on TalkJesus about Christians being pacifists. But one thing is for sure, we are not to be pacifists in the Spiritual world.

Rom 12:2; And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
2Cor 4:4; in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

This battle is mostly within our minds, our thoughts. This is the struggle within us.

Rom 8:5; For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6; For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:7; because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Rom 8:8; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Gal 5:16; But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Gal 5:17; For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

... to be continued.

 

[B-A-C]

Sometimes you put so much effort into building up the context of something, that you get side-tracked, and forget where you are going with it.
As I get older, this happens more and more frequently, but it's not always a bad thing.

But what I really want to focus on here is... the spiritual world.

Matt 6:9; "Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
Matt 6:10; 'Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.

We are supposed to pray for God's kingdom to come.

[KJV] Luke 17:21; Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

On one hand, the kingdom of God is within us, ( according to the King James version ) but on the other hand we are supposed to pray for it to come.

Rev 11:15; Then the seventh angel sounded ( trumpet ); and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."

One day, the seventh trumpet will sound, the Earth will totally belong to Jesus again.

1Cor 15:24; then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor 15:25; For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

It would seem that doesn't happen until after the millennial reign.

Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9; And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Rev 14:19; So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20; And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses' bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

I said earlier, sometimes the spiritual world crosses over to the physical world. This will never be more evident than during the tribulation.
Millions of people will die, not just spiritually, but physically. Even today, there are casualties all around us,

People who were conquered by alcohol, drugs, sex, and other things. Some have had their minds almost completely destroyed by drugs and alcohol.
In much the same way, sex can affect your mind, you can become as much a slave to it, as people who struggle with drugs and alcohol.

... to be continued.

 

[B-A-C]

Now where was I going with all this.... oh yeah I remember now.

One day, there will be a new heaven and a new earth. The New Jerusalem will come down out of heaven. ( Rev 21:1-2; )
Jesus and the Father will come and reign on the earth.

Some people believe this will totally be a spiritual thing. The earth and heaven will be the same as they are now. The earth will only be new in the sense that Satan was defeated.
Jesus won't physically be present, but will reign our hearts like He does today. ( Although I'm not so sure He is "reigning and ruling" in everyone who claims this ).
The New Jerusalem won't be a physical place, but rather a spiritual realm that we can't see.

I myself totally reject all of that, I believe Jesus will physically come back. The whole earth will see Him.

Rev 1:7; BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

I believe the physical and spiritual world will merge somehow. I believe the New Jerusalem will be a real material place with walls and doors and gates and streets.

I think some people have a hard time imaging all this, to tell the truth, even I do. But I wonder sometimes if some Christians have gotten so used to not seeing anything from God.
Where is your testimony? What has God done for you? How has He changed you? How has He moved in your life? Even that was a miracle.
But because they've never seen God, or any evidence of Him, them think they never will. They acknowledge He exists, and some say He even lives within them.
But that's all it is, and that's all it will ever be.

I'm sorry, I believe it's all real, everything will change. I will go so far as to say, those who don't believe this have a weak faith, because they can't see it.

1Cor 15:52; in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 

[B-A-C]

Eph 6:16; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Eph 6:17; And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Eph 6:18; With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,

Back to the spiritual world for a moment, I believe the battle is in the spiritual world right now. But we are given an offensive weapon. The sword of the Spirit, the word of God.
Why would we have this, if we aren't supposed to use it?

2Cor 5:1; For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Cor 5:4; For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.

I believe the "tent" in this passage is our current physical bodies. But Jesus ( the carpenter, the master builder ) is building a place for us in heaven. I believe that place will come
down into this physical world one day.

John 14:2; "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3; "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Rev 21:1; Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Rev 21:2; And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3; And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

Isn't God already among us? Doesn't He already dwell within us? Apparently, these passages mean something else, something more.

 

[Brad Huber]

The Bible says there is a war going on all around us. We can't really see it; however we can see glimpses of it, the effects of it.

Eph 6:11; Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12; For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13; Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

2Cor 10:5; We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

There is currently another thread of debate here on TalkJesus about Christians being pacifists. But one thing is for sure, we are not to be pacifists in the Spiritual world.

Rom 12:2; And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
2Cor 4:4; in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

This battle is mostly within our minds, our thoughts. This is the struggle within us.

Boy has this been true for me. The thing is, I can see about 75% of those battles going on around me, when most cant. And its also all throughout the media, entertainment, books, movies.... a constant war. Its usually a case of evil makes x amount of moves upon humanity and then the forces of good respond. Its the reason that people think evil is stronger, because we see more of the results of its acts upon humanity. And the forces of good are often not recognized for what they are and the results of thier actions.

 

[Twistie]

Eph 6:16; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Eph 6:17; And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Eph 6:18; With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,

Back to the spiritual world for a moment, I believe the battle is in the spiritual world right now. But we are given an offensive weapon. The sword of the Spirit, the word of God.
Why would we have this, if we aren't supposed to use it?

2Cor 5:1; For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Cor 5:4; For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.

I believe the "tent" in this passage is our current physical bodies. But Jesus ( the carpenter, the master builder ) is building a place for us in heaven. I believe that place will come
down into this physical world one day.

John 14:2; "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3; "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Rev 21:1; Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Rev 21:2; And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3; And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

Isn't God already among us? Doesn't He already dwell within us? Apparently, these passages mean something else, something more.

Immanuel

 

[Curtis]

1Jn 5:18 We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ's divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].
1Jn 5:19 We know [positively] that we are of God, and the whole world [around us] is under the power of the evil one.
1Jn 5:20 And we [have seen and] know [positively] that the Son of God has [actually] come to this world and has given us understanding and insight [progressively] to perceive (recognize) and come to know better and more clearly Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true--in His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah). This [Man] is the true God and Life eternal. (AMP)

The Church is certainly aware of all our surroundings spiritually and physically.