The Promised land.

[B-A-C]

God made a promise to Abraham about some land.

Gen 15:7 And He said to him, "I am the LORD who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to possess it."
Gen 15:8 He said, "O Lord GOD, how may I know that I will possess it?"

Gen 15:13 God said to Abram, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, where they will be enslaved and oppressed four hundred years.
Gen 15:14 "But I will also judge the nation whom they will serve, and afterward they will come out with many possessions.
Gen 15:15 "As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age.
Gen 15:16 "Then in the fourth generation they will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete."

Gen 15:18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:
Gen 15:19 the Kenite and the Kenizzite and the Kadmonite
Gen 15:20 and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Rephaim
Gen 15:21 and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Girgashite and the Jebusite."

God told Abraham he would give all the land between the river of Egypt ( the Nile ) and the Euphrates river.
One thing to keep in mind here, Abraham had two sons. Ishmael and Isaac. One is considered the father of Israel ( the Jews ) and the other is consider the father of the Arab/Palestinian world. Ishamel was the oldest, so according to custom he would have had the first choice of the land.

From the Nile delta ( Between Cairo and Alexandria ) to the Euphrates is about 950 miles or 1,530 kilometers.
To put this in perspective, Israel is about 70 miles wide at it's widest point. Israel is roughly the size of New Jersey.

Gen 26:2 The LORD appeared to him and said, "Do not go down to Egypt; stay in the land of which I shall tell you.
Gen 26:3 "Sojourn in this land and I will be with you and bless you, for to you and to your descendants I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I swore to your father Abraham.
Gen 26:4 "I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed;

But it seems God had a separate covenant for Isaac,

Gen 17:19 But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.
Gen 17:20 "As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21 "But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year."

Also see, Gen 12:7, Gen 13:15, Gen 17:8, Exod 6:8, Lev 20:24, and Deut 6:10.

 

[B-A-C]

Now to get more specific about Canaan and Israel, where were the boundaries of this land?

Num 34:1 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
Num 34:2 "Command the sons of Israel and say to them, 'When you enter the land of Canaan, this is the land that shall fall to you as an inheritance, even the land of Canaan according to its borders.
Num 34:3 'Your southern sector shall extend from the wilderness of Zin along the side of Edom, and your southern border shall extend from the end of the Salt Sea eastward.
Num 34:4 'Then your border shall turn direction from the south to the ascent of Akrabbim and continue to Zin, and its termination shall be to the south of Kadesh-barnea; and it shall reach Hazaraddar and continue to Azmon.
Num 34:5 'The border shall turn direction from Azmon to the brook of Egypt, and its termination shall be at the sea.
Num 34:6 'As for the western border, you shall have the Great Sea, that is, its coastline; this shall be your west border.
Num 34:7 'And this shall be your north border: you shall draw your border line from the Great Sea to Mount Hor.
Num 34:8 'You shall draw a line from Mount Hor to the Lebo-hamath, and the termination of the border shall be at Zedad;
Num 34:9 and the border shall proceed to Ziphron, and its termination shall be at Hazar-enan. This shall be your north border.
Num 34:10 'For your eastern border you shall also draw a line from Hazar-enan to Shepham,
Num 34:11 and the border shall go down from Shepham to Riblah on the east side of Ain; and the border shall go down and reach to the slope on the east side of the Sea of Chinnereth.
Num 34:12 'And the border shall go down to the Jordan and its termination shall be at the Salt Sea. This shall be your land according to its borders all around.'"
Num 34:13 So Moses commanded the sons of Israel, saying, "This is the land that you are to apportion by lot among you as a possession, which the LORD has commanded to give to the nine and a half tribes.
Num 34:14 "For the tribe of the sons of Reuben have received theirs according to their fathers' households, and the tribe of the sons of Gad according to their fathers' households, and the half-tribe of Manasseh have received their possession.
Num 34:15 "The two and a half tribes have received their possession across the Jordan opposite Jericho, eastward toward the sunrising."

This is the land specifically promised to the sons of Israel. Which is approximately close to modern day Israel ( including the west bank ).

So then the question here is, if this ( Canaan ) was the land specifically promised to the sons of Israel, then is it possible that all the
land mentioned in the previous message ( from the Nile to the Euphrates ) could have been ear-marked for the descendants of Ishmael?

 

[B-A-C]

The Middle East is predominantly Muslim and includes several Arab countries. Here’s a general outline of the region:

1. Arabian Peninsula:
   
   • Saudi Arabia
   • Yemen
   • Oman
   • United Arab Emirates
   • Qatar
   • Bahrain
   • Kuwait
2. Levant:
   
   • Jordan
   • Lebanon
   • Syria
   • Iraq
   • Palestine
3. North Africa (often included in the broader Middle East):
   
   • Egypt
   • Libya
   • Sudan
4. Other Predominantly Muslim Countries in the Region:
   
   • Turkey (though not Arab, it is predominantly Muslim)
   • Iran (also predominantly Muslim but Persian rather than Arab)

The Muslims/Arabs/Palestinians and the Jews have been fighting over this land for centuries.
But given the promise in Numbers 34:1-15; it would seem that the land of Israel is pretty defined.
This is the land of God's covenant with the sons of Israel. God said this is to be an everlasting covenant. ( Gen 17:19 )
So if this is the case, how can any Bible believing Christian say this land should go to the Palestinians?

The Arabs/Muslims already own most of the countries listed above. To put this is perspective, the land area of all those
countries is about 7.2 million square kilometers. The land area of Israel is about 20,770 square kilometers.

The Muslims, Arabs, land is approximately 350 times larger than Israel. So then, why do they need Israel too?

 

[Dave M]

Gen 15:18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:

I am not sure we can fully understand this promise with out the NT to help us. TO revel the things that maybe were not reveled at the time of the OT.

are the offspring of Abraham the same as his descendants?

 

[B-A-C]

are the offspring of Abraham the same as his descendants?

In a physical sense yes. I don't believe in "replacement theology". They are the biological descendants of Abraham.

Supersessionism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dave M]

In a physical sense yes. I don't believe in "replacement theology". They are the biological descendants of Abraham.

Supersessionism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Physical sense yea I have always found it a little tricky to fully understand the Abram promise , and who his true people were. I now lean way more into thinking about it as two groups, one spiritual with eternal promise and rewards and the ultimate promise heirs with Christ to everything.

And the other the physical Jew, with a temporary promise of the land, that was fulfilled and was conditional. these versus show clearly that the land promise was fulfilled ........ Joshua 21:43, Kings 8;56,, Nehemiah 9,:, 7,8.. and this shows it was conditional Deuteronomy 28 ; 63,

We have Jesus himself saying to the religious leaders (physical Jew ) that there father was NOT Abram but the devil.. John 8,,44

Then we have Paul who sheds light on the big picture IMO. He says all Israel is not Israel Roman 9;6,, That lines up perfectly with what Jesus says to the religious leaders who thought they were children of Abraham yet were not. Just as today many think they are Christians and are not, all parallels

Really Galatians sheds light on the whole picture IMO

Galatians 3:26-29 tells us that we who are in Christ are heirs to the promise, this is the eternal promise.
Who are the sons of Abraham? it is not the physical Jew but but those of faith Galatians 3-7
Who are the off spring of Abraham its not the physical Jew but whose in Christ.. Galatians 3-29
The OT points us to Christ in the NT,

Ephesians 3:6 tells us that is was a mystery that gentiles are fellow heirs.

 

[B-A-C]

I believe we can become "spiritual Jews" in a sense, but...

Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Rom 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

It doesn't make sense that the Gentiles were broken off, so that the Gentiles could come in.

It doesn't make sense that a partial hardening of the Gentiles has happened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Rev 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.
Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
Rev 7:5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
Rev 7:6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
Rev 7:7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
Rev 7:8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

No Gentile is from any of these tribes.

Rev 2:9 'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3:9 'Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.