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The Rapture

Atonement

Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
141
There are three major beliefs behind the rapture and when people think "it" will occur.

  • Pre-Trib: This theory believes that the rapture will happen before the seven year tribulation occurs
  • Mid-Trib/Pre Wrath: This theory believes that the Church will be here for the first 3 1/2 years of the seven year tribulation but will be raptured before the pouring out of God's judgment
  • Post-Trib: This theory believes that the rapture will happen sometime after the Great tribulation.
What theory do you believe to be true and why do you have this theory? What Scripture can you provide to back up the reason why you choose your theory..

I do have my theory, and I will offer this when more time permits and and I will provide Scripture, but in the mean time, don't be shy, let us know what you believe and why!!

God Bless
 
I'm just curious, where in the Bible does it say the tribulation will last 7 years?
I know the AC makes a treaty for 7 years, but that doesn't say anything about the duration of any tribulation. The last 3 1/2 years is considered to be the time of Jacobs trouble or the great tribulation, where the AC and his armies surround Israel. I don't know anywhere that it says the tribulation will last 7 years. But for the record, I am pre-wrath.

Glory
 
I keep trying to post but it just keeps telling me I cannot post a hyperlink, and I am not posting a hyperlink or any link at all...lol
so, I am assuming I am not supposed to be posting...lol
 
I'm just curious, where in the Bible does it say the tribulation will last 7 years?
I know the AC makes a treaty for 7 years, but that doesn't say anything about the duration of any tribulation. The last 3 1/2 years is considered to be the time of Jacobs trouble or the great tribulation, where the AC and his armies surround Israel. I don't know anywhere that it says the tribulation will last 7 years. But for the record, I am pre-wrath.

Glory

That's another topic which I will be happy to address at another time:

In answer to this topic, what Scripture can you use to back this theory please?
 
There are three major beliefs behind the rapture and when people think "it" will occur.



I do have my theory, and I will offer this when more time permits and and I will provide Scripture, but in the mean time, don't be shy, let us know what you believe and why!!

God Bless


Hi brother Atonement Welcome to Talk Jesus forums. So you have the courage to walk down disagreement lane? J/K Ive been speaking a lot lately, on Amill Premill interpretations. Even with plain scripture it doesn't work if your mind is set on one interpretation, even if its obvious that your interpretation may be incorrect. Ive come to the conclusion if you are not honest with yourself, and with scripture, its useless to have a view on this, no matter who has the correct interpretation. If you have a doctrine that severely contradicts other scripture, to me there is likely something wrong with it.

All these trib doctrines, claim to have their own proof text, (Ie scripture) to back up their beliefs. So for now, when it comes to a rapture, im on the side of Pan-trib, as it will come when it comes. But if i had to pick one on a whim, I would pick the one whitch i believe was the least contradictory. And that would be for me Post-trib, because of what Paul says in 2Th 2:1,8 and what Christ says in Matthew 24:29, but for now im Pan-trib. I see a possible rapture, of a group of people in rev 12, but i can't prove it. As there is only one scripture (proof text) for this theory way back in Isaiah 66 of the old testament.


God bless
 
Hi brother Atonement Welcome to Talk Jesus forums. So you have the courage to walk down disagreement lane? J/K Ive been speaking a lot lately, on Amill Premill interpretations. Even with plain scripture it doesn't work if your mind is set on one interpretation, even if its obvious that your interpretation may be incorrect. Ive come to the conclusion if you are not honest with yourself, and with scripture, its useless to have a view on this, no matter who has the correct interpretation. If you have a doctrine that severely contradicts other scripture, to me there is likely something wrong with it.

All these trib doctrines, claim to have their own proof text, (Ie scripture) to back up their beliefs. So for now, when it comes to a rapture, im on the side of Pan-trib, as it will come when it comes. But if i had to pick one on a whim, I would pick the one whitch i believe was the least contradictory. And that would be for me Post-trib, because of what Paul says in 2Th 2:1,8 and what Christ says in Matthew 24:29, but for now im Pan-trib. I see a possible rapture, of a group of people in rev 12, but i can't prove it. As there is only one scripture (proof text) for this theory way back in Isaiah 66 of the old testament.


God bless


Thank you for your theory and Scriptures..

I have not taken a side (well I have not mentioned it), so no one knows my position yet. I'm waiting patiently for others to have a chance before I rip this thread apart in Scripture to back up my belief, I just don't want to encourage anyone to side with me.. I want everyone to have a chance to express themselves.. :thumbs_up
 
PAUL - 2 things that precede the rapture /JESUS - 2 things that precede the 2nd coming

"That day shall not come unless there come a falling away first..." "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name. And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many. And because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved." [Matt. 24. 9-13 (NASB)]
" ...and the Man of Sin be revealed, the son of perdition.... who sitteth in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God." "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand):" [Matt. 24:15]


Matt 24:4,9-15,21,29-31
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. (KJV) ...
9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name.
10 "And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another.
11 "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many.
12 "And because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
13 "But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved.
14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come.
15 "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),...
21 for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall. ...
29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken,
30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
31 "And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
(NASB)

II Thess 2:1-4
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)
 
rapture

the post the mid the pre is all man made doctrine. Just let the scriptures speak the truth, and let the holy spirit guide us into all truth, let the holy ghost teach us all things concerning our lords return. if i had to pick from these iam a post trib. 2 thse 2:1-4, mat 24:9-15. may GOD bless you all in the search for this truth.
 
PAUL - 2 things that precede the rapture /JESUS - 2 things that precede the 2nd coming

"That day shall not come unless there come a falling away first..." "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name. And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many. And because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved." [Matt. 24. 9-13 (NASB)]
" ...and the Man of Sin be revealed, the son of perdition.... who sitteth in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God." "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand):" [Matt. 24:15]


Matt 24:4,9-15,21,29-31
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. (KJV) ...
9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name.
10 "And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another.
11 "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many.
12 "And because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
13 "But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved.
14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come.
15 "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),...
21 for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall. ...
29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken,
30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
31 "And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
(NASB)

II Thess 2:1-4
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

According to these scriptures, the great falling away and the son of perdition is revealed, then the Lord sends his angels to gather his people.

Seems like our faith will be tested and we will go through the cleansing fire, to make us white as snow.
 
I'm just curious, where in the Bible does it say the tribulation will last 7 years?
I know the AC makes a treaty for 7 years, but that doesn't say anything about the duration of any tribulation. The last 3 1/2 years is considered to be the time of Jacobs trouble or the great tribulation, where the AC and his armies surround Israel. I don't know anywhere that it says the tribulation will last 7 years. But for the record, I am pre-wrath.Glory

Hi Rog,
The bible does not say that at all. It says in Daniel that the treaty will be 7 yrs. The Antichrist in the "midst of the week" sets up the image in the holy place. " And Matthew 24 reveals: 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) ......................21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. The second half of the seven year treaty is the great tribulation, but of course you know that.

Hi Atonement,
I stand firm and unmoveable on post trib/pre-wrath.
Rev 20: 1-6 Those who are killed for refusing to worship the beast and his
image and for refusing to receive his mark take part in the first
resurrection.
1Thess 4: 13-17 The first resurrection occurs immediately prior to the
church being removed from the earth.
As Born Again posted: Matthew24: 29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The 24th chapter of Matthew covers up to the rapture, and that's it. It does not go past that. The gathering of the elect here is the rapture, which occurs "after" the tribulation of those days.
 
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I use to be pre trib ( by default not knowing anything else as a babe) but then God changed my mind and now I am post trib, during the " day of the Lord" which is Gods wrath that we are not appointed to. I could write a book of scriptures as to why but I wont go that far LOL
Instead I will say HOW God showed me the truth of this and anyone who wants to study it out on their own is blessed for doing so, then I will give a couple of " types" for fun :)

They way God showed me the timing was by showing me all through the bible the SIGNS that come just before the " DAY OF THE LORD", then God showed me how Jesus and paul and peter said that the " DAY OF THE LORD" is the day we wait for to be with the Lord. SO then I knew that the timing of the day of the Lord was the timing of the rapture/ressurection and so He took me through matt 24 and revelation and showed me where the SIGNS of the DAY OF THE LORD happen and it gives you the perfect timing of the rapture which is shown to be 1- immediatly after the tribulation period 2- at the 6th seal and 3- at the 7th trumpet. Both of these places in revelation declare that they are the beginning of WRATH and show the signs of the DAY OF THE LORD and both show that that is also when we are taken to be with him and recieve our reward! So if anyone wants to study that out God bless you in it!

Now for a couple of " types" for fun :) and edification.

In GEN. 7 ( perfectly for it is in the 7th day God finished creation and rested, and it is after 6,000 yrs and into the 7th that God will bring the end and bring the eternal rest) We see noah ready to get in the ark he built.

Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. ( Noah was in the ark for 7 days before it began to rain! just as we will be on earth hid in Jesus our ark during the 7 yr tribulation before the wrath of fire this time will come down after tribulation)
Gen 7:10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

After these 7 days ( our 7 years) the wrath began as rain etc.. and it took 40 days of rain to lift the ark off of the earth, just as after the 7 years of trib, after 40to45 days of wrath we will lift off the earth in the rapture( will show that in a sec)
Gen 7:17 ¶ And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

we see daniel said that the second half of trib is 1,290 days( trib ends) blessed he who comes to the 1,335 days ( 45 days after trib just like noah) to be caught up

Dan 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Dan 12:12 Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end [be]: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

( of course for those 45 days of wrath we will not be touched by it just as noah was safe on earth in the ark for the 40 days of rain and water)

*btw this type of noah is much larger but is alot to put here*

here is another type

Jos 6:2 And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, [and] the mighty men of valour. Jos 6:3 And ye shall compass the city, all [ye] men of war, [and] go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days. (like 6,000 years) Jos 6:4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets. (at the 7,000 yr you compass the city 7 times as in 7 years)

Jos 6:15 ¶ And it came to pass on the seventh day(7000yr), that they rose early about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same manner seven times(7 yrs of trib): only on that day they compassed the city seven times. Jos 6:16 And it came to pass at the seventh time(7th trump at end of 7 yrs), when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the LORD hath given you the city.

So with the sound of the 7th trump and with a shout!

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(at this last trump in joshua, the city was given to them and this land became Gods, and Gods peoples)

Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

AMEN!!

Ok here is one more type of the MANY to be seen

Jesus was the manchild of His day and His ministry lasted 3 1/2 years during which time He raised up his aposltes and disciples and there was no martyrdom. He sent them out two by two and told them they would be His witnessess. After His 3 1/2 years of ministry( type of the first half of tribulation where the woman and manchild are in the wilderness protected from the dragon) After this His disciples went out two by two into the earth and gave the word of God and began to be martyered which is a type of the second 3 1/2 years of trib when the two witnessess go out into the world and are killed!

Mar 6:7 And he called [unto him] the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Rev 11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

(these two witnesses can also be seen in type with Jesus/manchild of His day and in rev in noahs day)

Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that [are] not clean by two, the male and his female.

clean beasts by 7's( Jesus was CLEAN in His day of course as will be the end time manchild of rev 12 at the going into the tribulation)

but at the going into jesus day the disciples and aposltes were not YET clean because they had to wait till Jesus ministry of 3 1/2 years was over for Himto die to purify them to be clean but they were still in the ark jesus before this following him. same is the two witnesses of rev 11

Gen 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

*note that going INTO the ark at the beginning of noahs 7 days there were clean(by 7's like jesus) and unclean by twos( like the disciples and witnesses of rev 11) all in one ark(jesus) until after the flood BUT when noah got out of the ark He was told that He could now eat of the beasts of the earth and was NOT given any restriction from the " clean to unclean" as a type because after this time ALL in the ark were fully clean and delivered up to God!

Gen 9:1 ¶ And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth [upon] the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

AMEN!!!!!!!

man i am so excited looking into all this again i want to give more types LOL but i wont yet God bless you all!!!! may this be great meat to chew on and may God bless any who decides to go study the first part of this that God used to change my mind!
 
I keep trying to post but it just keeps telling me I cannot post a hyperlink, and I am not posting a hyperlink or any link at all...lol
so, I am assuming I am not supposed to be posting...lol

yeah you cant.. lolz (trust me, ive had infractions with that) not unless u asked permission on chad first and if u have atleast 100 post already i think...
 
I'm just curious, where in the Bible does it say the tribulation will last 7 years?
I know the AC makes a treaty for 7 years, but that doesn't say anything about the duration of any tribulation. The last 3 1/2 years is considered to be the time of Jacobs trouble or the great tribulation, where the AC and his armies surround Israel. I don't know anywhere that it says the tribulation will last 7 years. But for the record, I am pre-wrath.

Glory

Rog, I'm glad that you say, "where in the Bible does it say the tribulation will last 7 years?" because it doesn't. The "7 yr" theory is a derivative of the "42 months" and the "1260 days" which IS mentioned in Revelations. "7 years" is man-made.
Unfortunately, the question by Atonement has been framed in such a way as to give an uneven answer. There is no "7 year tribulation". So, how can I answer before, during or after?
As far as tribulation goes, read Luke 21 again, and more importantly, remember what Jesus is answering to. The apostles had asked Him when the temple would be destroyed AND the signs of His return. In verse 19, He has made an end to one part of His answer. Verse 20-24 has Him answering about the temple and the fate of the Jewish people.

Let's remember something, too. There are two verses which imply that the Day of the Lord will come as a "thief in the night" (2 Thess. 5:2 & 2 Pet. 3:10). Ask yourself this: if you knew when the "AntiChrist" began his reign, you would know when his reign would end. How can He come as a thief in the night? The answer is in 2Thessalonians 2:11. Strong delusion. There's a lot of lies out there. A lot of theories. A lot of nonsense that takes only some verses and disregards others. This is the same tactic Satan used on Jesus during His days in the wilderness. My problem with most theories is only this: is your faith in rapture or in Jesus Christ? (Rhetoric here, please don't anyone think I'm questioning their salvation!!!)

It is impotant that we watch, as is commanded us of Christ. It is equally important that we have BIBLICAL backing to what we believe. Let's remember what is speculation and what is scriptural. I've always made it rule that if Scripture seems to be saying two opposite things then my interpretation of it must be wrong.
 
post trib

ok when does God take us out well lets look at some other Bible stories

when God saved the Hebrews from Egypt did he save Isreal from the ten plagues or through them?

Did God save noah from the flood or through it?

when Daniel was in trouble with the king did God save him from the lions den or through it?

when shad mesh and aben did not worship the statue did God save them from the fire or through the fire?

Daniel is a last day book and even the stories in it are designed to teach lessons for the last days and it is consistant that when a 'who will you worship' issue comes up for Gods people and they chose GOd then God saves them through the trouble not from it.

Peter said it is through great tribulation that we will be saved. notice through not from.

In revelation the tribulation comes before the coming of Christ and only at the coming of Christ will we leave this earth.

all the lessons of the BIble show us that God saves through not from when a worship issue comes up. and end time examples are the same.

as mentioned by someone befoer this the 7 year idea is based on, well nothing there is no where in the Bible that gives the length of the great tribulation although some try to make it that way.

it must be obvious that my view is pst trib and I beleave tha just as God has in the past he will save his people and preserve them through the time of trouble. this post is designed to make you think about it that is why the questions at the start

blessings hope this is useful
 
Let's remember something, too. There are two verses which imply that the Day of the Lord will come as a "thief in the night" (2 Thess. 5:2 & 2 Pet. 3:10). Ask yourself this: if you knew when the "AntiChrist" began his reign, you would know when his reign would end. How can He come as a thief in the night? The answer is in 2Thessalonians 2:11. Strong delusion. There's a lot of lies out there. A lot of theories. A lot of nonsense that takes only some verses and disregards others. This is the same tactic Satan used on Jesus during His days in the wilderness. My problem with most theories is only this: is your faith in rapture or in Jesus Christ? (Rhetoric here, please don't anyone think I'm questioning their salvation!!!)

quote]


Id like to note soemthing here that you might find of interest. while it is true that the Bible says that we do not now the day or hour we can know when it is close or as Jesus said even at the door or even at the last generation. matt 24 but if you read what peter says about the theife in the night he goes on to say that this is not so for those who are in Christ. In fact as Jesus said in matt if we follow Him then we should have some ideah that is it very close.

the whole theife in the night is only for those who do not know or follow Jesus.
 
Reply

Letusgo27, you are much more right on than most I have talked with.
What is constantly asked and theorized in "rapture" debates is "pre, post, secret, etc.". For some reason, people belive that "great tribulation" is something that we have yet to experience, or worse, that it actually has a time frame to it.
If you read all of the Olivet Discourses in Matthew, Mark and Luke there is nowhere mentioned that it is a specified period of time. In fact, it is the opposite, there will be "great tribulation" until Christ returns.
For someone to believe that there will be a time worse than that of the Roman or Ottoman Empire's constant butchering of Christians is mind-numbing. Do these people know how many Christians are still persecuted and killed in China and the entire Islamic world? If this isn't tribulation, what is?
Think on this: look up "tribulation" in the New Testament. You will find that we are to be joyful in it. That it builds our reward in heaven. Fact is, it is tribulation that brings out someone's true colors. You will find, too, that the opposite is true: the more freedoms, rights, choices, luxuries, etc. that one has (ie. rich), the harder it is to find truth, salvation and submission to Christ.
My point is this: the beast and the false prophet (who've been in operation a long, long time) want to kill or silence the true church. If it can't silence you with death - as many have - it will silence you with compromise. Daniel called it "wearing down the saints." Right now, there's absolutely NO REASON for "civilized" nations (like America, Britain and most of Europe) to persecute. Why? Because the "church" at large is a liberal, compromised friend of the world. The church at large has emasculated Christ to the point of compromising salvation to its contituency. The false prophet is doing the work of the beast in another way, that's all.
"Tribulation" should not be confused with "wrath", either, which many seem to do a lot. Tribulation is what the true believer suffers at the hands of the unrighteous world. Wrath is has been appointed a day by God to those who are unrighteous. Christians have not been appointed wrath, but we will undergo tribulation - whether an extreme example like death or a latent example like ridicule.
As to the "thief in the night" example I used, you are right, it is used for the unsaved. But, let's remember too that in all of the cases that it is used, it is a rebuke to those who seem to believe. Look at the twelve foolish virgins waiting for the Lord. They were virgins. They were waiting. They'd been invited. BUT the day overtook them. My point is that, again, the church at large today believes in VERY WRONG notions about the end times: the beast, the false prophet, the seven year trib, etc etc. and the day will indeed overtake the church at large. Why? Because all of their theories are wrong and those who think to have a subscription to one form of false theology or another will find themselves in the same boat.
Anyway, thank you for your missives - I'm glad you believe the way you do. KEEP STUDYING!
 
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