The scariest thing I have ever done...

[abarnum619]

Today, I decided to speak up for my faith and my beliefs. I posted a blog today showing my support for Prop 8 in California, knowing that almost all of the friends and family that read it are against it. This was a huge step for me, as I am typically the type of person to not speak up in order to avoid confrontation. I don't know who will respond or how they will react, but I am glad I finally used my voice. I posted the blog below also if anyone would like to take a look and comment. Thanks!

Why I am Voting Yes on Prop 8

Up until this year, neither my husband nor I had ever registered to vote. Neither of us felt like it was even worth the time. This year, that changed. This year, I decided I was going to vote, even if it was for just one reason: Prop 8. I am voting YES on prop 8. I would like to tell you why I made that decision.

First of all, let me just say that this is a decision I struggled with a lot. I have a family member who is gay, as well as friends that are gay. I know this is a controversial issue that effects many people. Even after I made my decision, it was hard for me to speak up about it. For the first time, I decided to stand up for what I believe, regardless of the reactions I may receive from others. That’s a scary thing, you know, really showing who you are and what you believe in a very judgmental world. But that’s okay; because Christ stood up for me when he died on the cross for my sins. If I can’t stand up for him, then I’m not sure I am the follower of Christ that I want to be. So here goes.

Ultimately, the decision does come down to my faith. Marriage was created by God, and is a biblical act. Our world has turned it into a legal act, but that is not what it was supposed to be. Personally, I think that making marriage into a legal act has combined church and state too much. I would honestly prefer that all the rights associated with being married, where instead only associated with a domestic partnership, which any couple could have. Then, everyone, no matter their gender could have the same legal rights with their partner without changing the definition of marriage. Then marriage could be exactly what it was created to be: a biblical act of God joining one man and one woman; a sacred act of committing themselves before God. I don't know if that will ever happen, but even if it doesn't, I do believe that marriage should only be between a man and a woman.

I do also think that any committed couple should have the same legal rights as a married couple. However, I don't see how Prop 8 passing will make a difference in that, as according to CA family code 297.5, domestic partnerships already have all the same legal rights as a married couple.
297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights,
protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same
responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they
derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules,
government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources
of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.
I think this is completely fair, as it allows all couples to receive the same benefits, while leaving marriage as God created it.

I know that Prop 8 does not specifically have anything to do with sex education in schools, or taking away churches tax exempt status. However, I can also see how easily these types of things could be next in line if Prop 8 fails. It has already happened in Massachusetts where same-sex marriage is legalized. In public schools, kindergarten students are being taught about same-sex relationships, and in junior high, students are being taught about same-sex sexual acts. When parents went to the schools to find out what was going on, they were told "get over it, it's legal now". Personally, I feel that this is something that should be discussed with children by their parents, not their school teacher, so yes, that concerns me. As for churches, there have already been pastors, churches, and also wedding vendors sued for discrimination because they refused to provide services for a same sex couple. Doesn't that take away our freedom of religion? So, although I understand that Prop 8 failing will not specifically cause these things, I can also see that it could be a domino affect.

Overall, I feel that it will be damaging to our children, our families, our society, and our rights to change the definition of marriage. We have already taken God out of so many things in life. Why are we now trying to take him out of our marriages?

 

[abarnum619]

An interesting turn of events...

Why I Changed My Vote on Prop 8

Wow, the last week has been a whirlwind of emotions for me. Last night, I felt more emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually drained than I have ever felt. Considering this is my first election, it was almost enough to make me never want to vote again! Ha! If you are reading this, you have probably already read my previous blog about prop 8, and why I was going to vote yes. Well, I am here to tell you that I have had a change of heart. The last week has been full of conversations with people I love and respect, and some of them where able to point out flaws in my reasons for voting yes, and also provide me with some other things to think about. I know for some, this may seem odd, because I felt so strongly about voting yes. Because of that, I want to start off this blog by letting you all know that my faith is unchanged, and my belief in the union of marriage is also unchanged. However, I have now seen how my faith, the Bible, and my citizenship in this country actually showed me why I should be voting no instead.

Today I spent the entire day reading verse after verse in the Bible and asking God to give me direction on this issue. I went through the entire concordance in my Bible, and looked up verses for any word that stuck out to me as applicable in this issue. After that, I went through those verses and read them, along with the surrounding text. I didn’t want to just read an individual verse, as that can so easily be taken out of context. So, I found myself reading entire chapters to make sure I was really getting the point behind the individual verse. Additionally, I looked at many websites earlier this morning that were both for and against prop 8. I looked at the “official” websites, along with many other unofficial sites, personal blogs, and news sites. I also re-read my blog, and the comments from my friends. I decided that in order to make the best decision on this issue, I needed to truly look at the issue from ALL sides, and then ultimately take it to God and see what his word says about it. After a lot of prayer, and a lot of reading, my heart had been changed. There are a few very specific reasons for this.

First, I have realized that there really are two definitions of marriage. Unfortunately, we use the same word for both definitions, which obviously causes a lot of confusion and frustration. The first idea of marriage, which I was originally voting yes to uphold, is the BIBLICAL idea of marriage. This is a marriage that is professed before God, between one man and one woman, and is for life. It is very important to consider here that a biblical marriage has a lot rules associated with it that are not practiced or followed by most married folk. A biblical marriage is supposed to be for life, and anyone who divorces for any reason other than unfaithfulness is considered an adulterer. Additionally, anyone who marries an adulterer is then also an adulterer. A biblical marriage is not one that should be jumped in and out of whenever someone pleases. A biblical marriage is also not to be between to people who are not “equally yoked” which basically means that a believer should not be marrying an unbeliever. AND in the Old Testament days, not following these laws of marriage was a crime punishable by death! The Bible also says that the husband should be the spiritual leader of the family, and love his wife the way that Christ loves the church, while the wife should be his helper and partner, and submissive to him. The Bible also says that marriage is not for everyone. It says that it is actually better for people to remain unmarried in order to become closer to God, unless they can not control their physical desires. Wow, I have to say, this is a very different idea of marriage than what we see in our society.

The second idea of marriage, which is really what this proposition is all about, is the LEGAL definition of marriage. This is the marriage that anyone in America can currently participate in so long as they meet certain age requirements and other laws (no brothers and sisters or currently married people, please!). Besides those requirements, virtually anyone can be married. Even prisoners can be married, and they don’t have the right to vote!! The Legal act of marriage in our society is ultimately about rights. In fact, there are over 1,100 legal rights associated with being married. Beyond that, the legal idea of marriage is whatever the couple being married makes of it. In order for a couple to be legally married in the state of California, they do not have to believe in God, or in any religion for that matter. They don’t have to say specific vows, and can even write their own vows. They are not held to specific laws about when and why they can divorce, or whether or not they can remarry, or whether or not they are equally yoked. Now, of course most people who are married do plan on being married for life and not cheating on their spouse, but it doesn’t always happen that way. In the legal version of marriage, you are not legally punished for that. You may have to be in court for a long time fighting over who gets what, but you certainly won’t be sentenced to death. It is definitely a completely different idea than biblical marriage. Also, as one friend pointed out, it is important to consider that one can be married in a church before God, but that does not make them LEGALLY married. They still most fill out the appropriate papers in order to claim those rights.

Now for me as a Christian, it is very important that my husband and I have a biblical marriage. I want to be married before the eyes of God. I want to have a union that involves God every step of the way. I want my husband to be a leader in our home, and I want to be a “Proverbs 31 woman”. That is what I desire as a result of my faith. Whose responsibility is it to see that through? Certainly not the government! If that is our desire as a couple, than it is our responsibility to live that life. It is in our hands to make sure we follow the biblical ideas of a marriage, and to pass on those values to our children (whenever we have them…).

Next point… One thing that was very apparent to me as I read my Bible today was the free will that God gave each and every one of us. We have the absolute freedom to believe whatever we want, do whatever we want, and be whomever we want. Now, that doesn’t mean there are not consequences for our actions, but we still have the right to choose those actions. We are not robots. We can make our own decisions. Unfortunately, we don’t always make wise decisions! In the Bible it states that God “hates” sin. But even as much as he hates sin, he still gives us free will. He even allows us to jump into things that may harm us at times. To me, all of this really stuck out in my head because it made me realize that even though I do have a strong faith in God, I had the FREE WILL to make that choice. And everyone else has the same free will. So regardless of my faith, I do not have a right to tell you what to believe. I may be able to tell you *why* I believe what I do, but I can’t make you feel the same way.

Okay, final point (I know… super long). This country was founded by men who were escaping religious persecution. When they founded this country, Americans were given basic, fundamental rights. One of those rights is the Freedom of Religion. This gives us the right to believe in any religion we choose, or to not believe in any of them. We could even make up our own if we want. As an American, we have that right. The men that founded this country set that in place so that we could all exercise our free will, and not be persecuted for disagreeing with another person’s faith. When the government in our country was started, they also made the separation of church and state. This is something that also protects our freedom of religion. If our government has authority over our religion, then we don’t really have the freedom of religion anymore, do we? These two things are a HUGE part of our country. They allow us all to express our beliefs how we see fit.

In conclusion, the two definitions of marriage both serve very important purposes. The biblical definition states how God intended marriage to be. As a Christian (and an American) I have the right to uphold that definition in my marriage. And every other American has the right to take it or leave it. The Legal definition of marriage is in place to allow all Americans the same legal rights, regardless of their religious affiliation. It allows all American’s to express their love and dedication to another human being by joining legally. This is their right, whether anyone else agrees with their marriage or not. I firmly believe that we do not have the right to take away anyone’s legal rights, freedom of religion, or free will. At the end of the day, this IS a civil rights issue. Giving different rights to different people depending on their sexual preference, race, age, gender, religious affiliation, or anything else is wrong. And that is why I changed my mind on this proposition.

One last thing. I want you all to know that I do not in any way regret the previous blog I posted. If I had not posted it, I would not have had the conversations with so many of you that helped me look further into this. I would have simply cast a silent “yes” vote, and never had a second thought.

-Amber

 

[sorrow]

There is nothing inherently wrong with gays. Anyone who thinks this might as well be racist, antisemetic, and other such prejudice that leads to the inequality that I would think God wants us to not have.

Gay people cannot help being gay, it is a chemical inbalance. There are just as friendly as you and I, there is no reason to see them differently, just because of some minor difference. I hope the world can grow up and see that people are all much the same, and the variation is a form of creativity that we need. Creativity in culture, science, innovation, mentality; all imply virtue for humanity, regardless of struggle.

Everybody needs at least a little bit of suffering in their lives.

I don't think that we need to look to religion to find the answer. God wants us to solve our own problems, and grow up. For the believers, God gave us cognitive tools, logic is as much a need as spirituality and emotion. We need to rationalize just as much as have faith in order to live a benevolent life. Just accept others for who they are. Are gays a threat? No.

eace:

 

[rizen1]

People do have a choice.
Donnie Mc Clurkin is a walking talking testimony of a person being able to not be gay anymore.

We were all born in sin, but made alive in Christ Jesus

 

[Chad]

There is nothing inherently wrong with gays. Anyone who thinks this might as well be racist, antisemetic, and other such prejudice that leads to the inequality that I would think God wants us to not have.

Gay people cannot help being gay, it is a chemical inbalance. There are just as friendly as you and I, there is no reason to see them differently, just because of some minor difference. I hope the world can grow up and see that people are all much the same, and the variation is a form of creativity that we need. Creativity in culture, science, innovation, mentality; all imply virtue for humanity, regardless of struggle.

Everybody needs at least a little bit of suffering in their lives.

I don't think that we need to look to religion to find the answer. God wants us to solve our own problems, and grow up. For the believers, God gave us cognitive tools, logic is as much a need as spirituality and emotion. We need to rationalize just as much as have faith in order to live a benevolent life. Just accept others for who they are. Are gays a threat? No.

eace:

I don't understand your post. You claim you don't care for the OT portion of the Bible in your new member post (another thread), but explain this:

How do you know what GOD has to say about anything if you're not reading and respecting the Word (Holy Bible) as from GOD? Which GOD (or god) is it you believe in exactly? Because there is only One, GOD of the Holy Bible, no other.

Gays have a choice. Just like murders and thieves have a choice. Adulterers have a choice.

Just because the world told you its a "chemical imbalance" doesn't mean anything. You did claim that GOD says this or that, without quoting actual Scripture. But GOD speaks clearly on homosexuality in the Bible.

http://www.talkjesus.com/scriptural-bible-answers/197-homosexuality.html

 

[ephesians4_23]

I also wanted to add a quick note- the 'separation of church and state' you spoke of, to keep the state out of our churches.... actually our founding fathers wanted to keep the church out of our government. Remember they came from a time where religion ruled kingdoms. They were persecuted in England and they came here searching for freedom in government. And they weren't actually searching for complete freedom in religion either. They wanted freedom to practice their own religion, but weren't necessarily tolerant of others'. America was founded on the word of God, and that's one reason why it's been blessed.
It would be great if people could vote, like prop 8, and say that, as was already voted, that yes, marriage is only between a man and a woman, and it stays that way. But soon enough, a judge will overturn it. Should a judge be able to say no to what the people have already said yes to? Makes me wonder.
I respect your vote, you made an informed decision, and did what you thought was God's will. That's all that we can do.
God bless

 

[SpiritLedEd]

onstitution

It would be great if people could vote, like prop 8, and say that, as was already voted, that yes, marriage is only between a man and a woman, and it stays that way. But soon enough, a judge will overturn it. Should a judge be able to say no to what the people have already said yes to? Makes me wonder.

Proposition 8 was an amendment to the Constitution of the State of California. Making the proposition part of the state Constitution took the issue out of the hands of the courts. That's why the liberals are so upset. Courts can only "interpret" a Constitution, they can't add anything to it or delete anything from it. And Prop 8 is tightly drawn, meaning there's no wiggle room for interpretation.


SLE

 

[Jeffo]

There is nothing inherently wrong with gays

They suffer from a similiar problem that we all have ----sin.

But God is calling people to repent of sins.

Gay people cannot help being gay, it is a chemical inbalance

This worries me, because you seem to be saying that God made them sinners.
God is righteous.
Why is God calling them to repent of it, if he made them that way?
Repentance would require them to see that Homosexuality is not the image or the will of God, and to ask God for help.

Everybody needs at least a little bit of suffering in their lives.

We are to suffer like Christ suffered---for doing the right thing, and submitting to the Fathers will.

 

[Alicia]

I know it has come home to us now where we actually have wonderful friends and family members who have openly admitted to being gay but we must always stand for what God said in his word and not go on feelings. There are many reasons why men and women have decided to go on the other side but we should not encourage or support it. I'm not saying we should be mean towards them but firmly and in love educate these people of God's word, pray for them when we can and believe that God will deliver them.

Please read the following scripture, especially the highlighted area, that I believe clearly speaks about gays:

******** ******** Romans Chapter 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. * ****

 

[sunilgill_87]

Is Homosexuality Acceptable to God?

The acceptance of homosexuality as an equally valid lifestyle is rapidly growing in Western culture. Yet God tells us that sex was designed for only one relationship—within marriage, exclusively between a man and a woman. Because homosexual activity, premarital sex and adultery are all outside of marriage, all are violations of God's instructions. These things are all sins, and those who commit these sins must repent of them.

The Bible condemns homosexual practices in several places such as Genesis 19:1-25, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, and Judges 19:1-25. These scriptures refer to homosexual acts as something that should not be done and as evil in the eyes of God.

In the New Testament, Romans 1:24-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and 1 Timothy 1:9-10 refer to homosexuality in the same way. The passage in Romans includes a specific prohibition of both male and female homosexual involvement. The Bible nowhere makes positive or approving statements about homosexuality. The only two options affirmed for adult Christians are heterosexual marriage or abstinence.

The vast majority of academic and biblical scholars agree that the Bible prohibits homosexual activities. Nearly all of today's translations of the Bible are also in agreement that God prohibits homosexual practice.

Contesting God's instructions, some homosexuals argue that God made them the way they are and that He therefore must approve of homosexuality. Such reasoning is inherently flawed for several reasons.

First, God made all of us with free moral agency; we choose what we will think, believe and do. We are not robots incapable of making our own choices or governing our own behavior. Second, one's environment has been proven to have a great impact on a person's developing sexuality. Moreover, studies of identical twins where one twin is homosexual and the other isn't prove that homosexuality isn't governed by genetic makeup. These factors show that homosexuals are made, not born.

Third, regardless of any conditions that may predispose a person to homosexuality, we are all expected to make moral decisions regardless of our circumstances. When we determine to follow God's instructions, we must live up to all His standards. God doesn't permit us to rewrite His rules simply because we are naturally inclined to premarital sex, adultery, homosexuality or any other sin.

And speaking of the way we human beings are made, the Bible reveals that we all (regardless of our sexual orientation) have a predisposition to sin. We have minds that from childhood are set against God and His ways (Jeremiah 17:9). As a result, we all sin (Romans 3:23). The challenge for each of us in responding to God is to repent of our sins—to change our lives, with His help, in conforming to His standards (Romans 12:1-2). When we commit our lives to God, we can change our lives.

It's encouraging to understand that there is clear biblical evidence that God can change the life of a person involved in homosexual behavior. In 1 Corinthians 6, the apostle Paul is addressing men and women in the church at Corinth. He lists many forms of behavior—including homosexual acts—that will keep a person from being in God's Kingdom (verses 9-10). Then Paul makes this statement: "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God" (verse 11, New International Version).

Paul apparently knew former homosexuals in the church at Corinth. So the message that homosexuality can be changed is not new. Homosexuals have been experiencing change since the Bible was written. God's Word takes the approach of hating the sin but loving the sinner (compare John 3:16).

What is the responsibility of one who wants to be a Christian but struggles with a deeply ingrained attraction to members of his or her own sex? The Scriptures say that person is obligated to control his sexual desires in the same way that heterosexual single adults must exercise self-control. In other words, he or she must refrain from giving in to his or her lusts.

The Bible instructs us to repent and come out of sin. Homosexual practices, like any other sin, need to be repented of and overcome. A practicing homosexual would do so by acknowledging that homosexuality is wrong and by ceasing to live a homosexual lifestyle or place himself in a situation where he or she might be tempted to engage in such behavior.

Recognizing that sin begins in the mind (James 1:13-15), a person struggling with this or other sexual sins must strive to "take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:5, NIV). Such an individual can be a true Christian even though he or she may be engaged in a lifelong struggle to resist returning to homosexual practices.

It is also important to understand the difference between homosexual orientation and homosexual lust and behavior. The orientation is not a sin but the lust and behavior is. While there are many people in our society today who reject God's instruction on this subject, there are many others with homosexual orientations who are coming out of this lifestyle to live in accordance with God's instruction.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

The Scariest Thing I have Ever .........

Gay people cannot help being gay, it is a chemical inbalance.

The fact is that there are Christian counseling ministries with track records of success in delivering people from the gay mindset.God is not a killjoy. He's not out to keep people from living truly fulfilling lives. His law says that homosexuality is wrong because it is a perversion of His perfect plan for human sexual expression and procreation.

Also, if the science is there to support the contention that homosexuality is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, what will happen when medicines become widely available that clinical trials prove successful in treating it? How many in the gay community will choose to go for the cure? The answer to that question, it seems to me, will go a long way in establishing whether or not homosexuality is a choice.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[nologoboy]

I really don't think that anybody is seeking to remove God from the state of marriage. In fact, I am sure that the overwhelming majority of people seeking a civil union would be horrified for it to be seen in those terms.

I think what they are seeking is the same kind of security that any married couple would have as a right; legal standing, economic stability and social inclusion. Is it not right for a couple, regardless of the personal choices they make for themselves in their own lives, to seek an environment that is recognised as nurturing certain worthy ideals? Aren't we talking about law rather than doctrine? Marriage is a legal contract.

What is right in the eyes of the law and what is right in the eyes of God are two different points for consideration.

What I think people of faith would like to see is their 'holy state of matrimony' as something special and unique that reflects their own choices in life e.g. as a moral choice in the eyes of God...but this is not a legal issue, it is an issue of the heart and is linked to a person's religious convictions.

How does one go about defining the difference between what can be described as both a legal and religious convention?

If there was a distinction (in law or common language) made between heterosexual and homosexual unions would that fix the problem? Would you be willing to afford the privileges and freedoms of equality to people that believe differently than you?

Abarnum...really touched by your last post. "I firmly believe that we do not have the right to take away anyone’s legal rights, freedom of religion, or free will. At the end of the day, this IS a civil rights issue. Giving different rights to different people depending on their sexual preference, race, age, gender, religious affiliation, or anything else is wrong." A lovely sentiment put forward with a succinct sense of beauty.

 

[Br. Bear]

if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Romans 4:24b-25

Greetings,

let us make one thing very clear, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) and it makes no difference if one is gay or not when it comes to the atoning death of Christ on the cross.

There is a huge difference though in those who have received Him and those who have not. None are better, but the saved are better off, as they are no longer under the law of sin and death.

Now, even the falseness that some utter, only proves the glory and righteousness of God in Jesus Christ the Lord, as He can not lie, and it is only by grace we are saved, not of our own works lest any should boast. For even when some speak falsehoods or lies, that only proves His word, that it is through His imputation of faith and His grace that saves any soul.... meaning that the unrighteousness of man exalts the righteousness of God in His grace, in that all may come to Him and believe with repentance and receive of Him eternal life and freedom from the power of sin.

Homosexuality is sin, just as backbiting and stealing is, just as bearing false witness and adultery is..... and the list goes on..... and on.... for, all have sinned and a little leaven, a little yeast, leavens the whole lump, the whole loaf of bread, meaning sin is sin, no matter what size we humans like to consider it to be, all unholy behaviour is unholy..... whereas the LORD is Holy. For us to come to Him, we must go through the grace He freely offers all people, found only in Jesus Christ the Lord.

So, it is not about what we think or what we do or do not do, and it is likewise not up to the laws of a land to decide on His judgement, for He is just and has set the standard for Salvation.... His name is Jesus, and there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved.


It makes no difference to the grace of God what you say you believe to be one's rights or not, for the only right we have is His grace..... which we all need.

Let us stop bickering and challenging on the unperfect standards of man and let us look and behold the Lord in worship and praise and remember His grace.


In Christ, we are made new, and old things pass away.... and let us thank the Lord for His mercy towards each one of us... that we can come to Him and be set free from the very things that have kept us from Him and His blessings of wholeness and holiness, His righteousness made manifest in our lives by His sacrifice of love, Jesus Christ.


Some entertain themselves by mocking the Lord and being seen to be clever amongst those who are amused by such behaviour, but, again, this only proves His glory is His gift of life for all who believe.


Bless you ....><>


Br. Bear

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

 

[Gideons 300]

I don't think that we need to look to religion to find the answer. God wants us to solve our own problems, and grow up.
eace:

I fear you have placed too much faith in humankind. The truth is God wants us to see that we cannot solve our own problems and need Him. When Jesus returns, it says He will shorten the days for if He did not, we would destroy ourselves. If there is anything that is evident in the history of mankind, it is the fact that we need God to rule over us or we simply have no hope. This is true in both our personal walk, and in our collective one.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

"Sorrow" hasn't posted on TJ since last December. He insisted on spreading unscriptural beliefs and was banned.

SLE

 

[Ed]

I've done a LOT of soul searching ever since the Perez/Prejean incident.
While the Bible does have quiet a few negative things to say about homosexuals, it says nothing outside about that...nothing about gay marriage, etc.
Here's the thing:
Christians (the real ones, not the gay ones) know that homosexuality is wrong, and it's a sin. Of course, anyone caught in a willing sin has two paths to take: one leads to heaven, the other to hell.
The thing that infuriates the gays is not just the homosexual sin. If that were the case, we'd see a lot more gay sinners repenting.
It's more that they are quick to realize that once they accept that they are sinners, then they face a huge dilemman, because now that their sin is exposed, they are called into account on every area of their lives: their thoughts, behaviors, attitudes, etc.
So they face the impossible: changing what they have known for so long, and on top of that, believing in a very strict God.
Even though I am not gay myself, I realize the pressure they are under. Because it's a daily grind, you literally have to jump out of bed and rethink your whole life. Not only this, but you face the strong rejection of your friends, lovers, etc.

Even if gay marriage is allowed, we have long since abandoned being a Christ-like nation...thanks to our government, our crooked pastors, our "feed me until I'm bloated" churches, etc.

Will gay marriage mean the end of all we cherish as Christians? Will the acceptance of Gay Marriage change the attitude of the Gay and/or Christian community? By no means. Each side will continue on as before.

I mean, we already acknowledge the gay population anyways: we see them in all their glory, and we acknowledge: "Yes, you are gay! So what? Do you want to be treated differently than other people?"

A gay person, will, by their own justification, continue to be gay. A Christian, by their own choice, will continue to be Christian.

I know one thing: If the gay people are looking for segregation, then they will find segregation: no straight man, who has an attitude towards gays will come into a gay bar/hotel/store/church. Though a gay person will come into a straight bar/hotel/store/church. And while a gay pastor may not preach against the homosexual lifestyle to the congregation, the real pastor will preach against homosexuality to the congregation.

If I am a pastor, and you don't like my homosexual bashing, then you are free to leave. Call it unethical, call it persecution..call it whatever you want. I call it sin. And I have every right to call it what it is according to the freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and my own personal faith.

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

Will gay marriage mean the end of all we cherish as Christians? Will the acceptance of Gay Marriage change the attitude of the Gay and/or Christian community? By no means. Each side will continue on as before.

If I am a pastor, and you don't like my homosexual bashing, then you are free to leave. Call it unethical, call it persecution.

If marriage is redefined beyond 1 man and 1 woman, each side will not just continue on as before.


What will become unethical.. is homosexual marriage bashing.
ie.. Sunday sermons concerning the behavior of homosexuality and its end result.
It will be classified as a Hate crime.


Count on it. The movement is out to silence the witness of the Holy Spirit in believers, of the conviction of the sin of homosexuality.


Worse yet. If marriage is redefined by our constitution, it will forever change this country.

The liberal/elitist would love nothing less.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

The movement is out to silence the witness of the Holy Spirit in believers, of the conviction of the sin of homosexuality.

U. S. President Harry Truman (1945-1952) once said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Gay rights activists have turned up the heat against the church in America (and elsewhere) because of our arrogant, prejudicial behavior toward gays as people. They see the institutional church as self-righteous and hypocritical, as being unChristian, because as a body, we hate the sin AND the sinner.

Gay rights proponents are not afraid of the heat in the kitchen. They are committed to their cause, willing to see it through to the end. The church will not be victorious until we, as a body, have stopped the Pharisaical habit of hating "sinners", until we've removed the plank from our own eye (see Mt 7:3) so we will no longer be hypocritical, so we'll be able to reach out in genuine care and bring Christ's love to these people.

SLE

 

[Ed]

U. S. President Harry Truman (1945-1952) once said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Gay rights activists have turned up the heat against the church in America (and elsewhere) because of our arrogant, prejudicial behavior toward gays as people. They see the institutional church as self-righteous and hypocritical, as being unChristian, because as a body, we hate the sin AND the sinner.

Gay rights proponents are not afraid of the heat in the kitchen. They are committed to their cause, willing to see it through to the end. The church will not be victorious until we, as a body, have stopped the Pharisaical habit of hating "sinners", until we've removed the plank from our own eye (see Mt 7:3) so we will no longer be hypocritical, so we'll be able to reach out in genuine care and bring Christ's love to these people.

SLE

And how do we do this exactly? By compromising the Word of God? If so, then Christians best be prepared for the worst....

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

Gay rights proponents are not afraid of the heat in the kitchen. They are committed to their cause, willing to see it through to the end.

You are certainly correct here. But what's their motive tho? Who's pushing their button?

If marriage is redefined by our constitution, it will forever change this country.

Ultimately, this is what the enemy is after. To change/alter, and see this country and it's people destroyed. ie... The good that the people of this country have done, and to disrupt the works of the enemy in peoples lives across the world.

These acts are founded in Christian principles.
Do unto others; Give to the poor; Clothe the naked; feed the hungry.
After 200+ years, while imperfect, yes, but this country of ours has been the closest representitive of a Christian government on the earth.
The enemy hates it like no other... except Israel.

To fundamentally change the definition of marriage, is to set us on the course to Gomorrah.


LoJ