the Scribes, the Lawyers and the Sanhedrin

[Br. Bear]

Is there a danger that we might follow the way of the Sanhedrin, the way of the Pharisee, the ways of the Scribes and the way of the Lawyers?

Is there some way of checking ourselves to ensure we do not?

The high priest then questioned Jesus about His disciples and His teaching. Jesus answered him, “I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret. Why do you ask Me? Ask those who have heard Me what I said to them; they know what I said.”

When He had said these things, one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand, saying, “Is that how you answer the high priest?”
Jesus answered him, “If what I said is wrong, bear witness about the wrong; but if what I said is right, why do you strike Me?” John 18:19-23 ESV

The high priest then asked Jesus of His disciples, and of His doctrine.
Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. Why askest thou Me? ask them which heard Me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said.

And when He had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying, Answerest Thou the high priest so?

Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou Me? John 18:19-23 KJV

When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put Him to death: Matthew 27:1

Throughout the Gospels we read of the men who were enemies to Jesus and we see that they were not the Romans and the Gentiles but men professing to be men of God. They were, all of them, children of Israel. They were not foreigners to the Law nor to the Scripture.

We have the Scripture and the right to become the Children of God.
Can we become like they were? Have we already, to some degree or another?

How do we handle the Scriptures? What is our attitude towards each other and towards any who oppose our teachings and doctrines?

Have we become Pharisees, also, and how can we know?

If we have, what can we do?

 

[B-A-C]

You make a good point, but what did Jesus tell the Pharisees?

Matt 9:13; "But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Matt 23:23; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

Luke 10:37; And he said, "The one who showed mercy toward him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do the same."

Matt 5:7; "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

Luke 1:50; "AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION TOWARD THOSE WHO FEAR HIM.

Did Jesus ever completely discount grace and mercy? No.
Did the Pharisees? Yes.

Matt 18:21; Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"

You know Jesus's answer. It wasn't forgive him once, then forget him.

Luke 17:4; "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."

It seems very clear here that Jesus doesn't forgive just once.
Even the ignotrant, who didn't really know what they were doing, did Jesus hold it againsty them?

Luke 23:34; But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.

 

[B-A-C]

How do we handle the Scriptures? What is our attitude towards each other and towards any who oppose our teachings and doctrines?

Have we become Pharisees, also, and how can we know

Equally important, how did Jesus handle the Pharisees?

Matt 12:34; "You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.
Matt 23:33; "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

Matt 23:15; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

John 8:44; "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Jesus didn't pull any punches with those who were legalistic and showed no mercy.

 

[Br. Bear]

Luke 23:34; But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.

 

[Br. Bear]

Matt 12:34; "You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.
Matt 23:33; "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

Matt 23:15; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

John 8:44; "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus didn't pull any punches with those who were legalistic and showed no mercy.

can't see that in those Scriptures, B-A-C


Bless you ....><>

 

[Dave M]

So Bear if someone tells you you are child of the devil and not saved and backs that up with false doctrine, do you just be nice and encourage that??

how do you handle it?

 

[Dave M]

who is more like a Pharisee ??

the person who claims to be perfect and accuses all who are not sinless not to be not saved??

or the person who corrects him and explains that some may struggle and are not perfect?

 

[B-A-C]

In the passage below are the Pharisees promoting compassion? Is Jesus promoting legalism?

Matt 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.
Matt 12:2; But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."
Matt 12:3; But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
Matt 12:4; how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
Matt 12:5; "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?
Matt 12:6; "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.
Matt 12:7; "But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent.

Let's start again Who is being legalistic in this passage? Jesus or the Pharisees? Who is promoting compassion here
Jesus or the Pharisees?

Matt 12:10 And a man was there whose hand was withered. And they questioned Jesus, asking, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"—so that they might accuse Him.
Matt 12:11 And He said to them, "What man is there among you who has a sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out?
Matt 12:12 "How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."
Matt 12:13 Then He *said to the man, "Stretch out your hand!" He stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other.
Matt 12:14 But the Pharisees went out and conspired against Him, as to how they might destroy Him.

We see this tension between Jesus and the Pharisee's over and over again.
Again... below, who is being legalistic and who is showing compassion?

John 8:3; The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court,
John 8:4; they *said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act.
John 8:5; "Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?"
John 8:6; They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground.
John 8:7; But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

John 8:11; She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."

Admittedly Jesus says "sin no more". I am not condoning that we continue in sin.

Matt 16:6; And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

Leaven "puffs-up" Leaven is pious and self-righteous.

Matt 9:11; When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, "Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners?"
Matt 9:12; But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.
Matt 9:13; "But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Again, who is being self-righteous and legalistic here? Who is promoting compassion?
I've always thought that Jesus was speaking "tongue in cheek" to the Pharisees when He said
"It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. Jesus knew who the "sick" really were.

In the story about the prodigal son (Luke 15 ).
The father forgives the wayward son when he comes back. Was that compassion or legalism?

The "righteous" brother condemns the father for taking him back.
Was that compassion or legalism?

 

[At Peace]

who is more like a Pharisee ??

the person who claims to be perfect and accuses all who are not sinless not to be not saved??

or the person who corrects him and explains that some may struggle and are not perfect?

You do realize that Jesus WAS perfect, and the Pharisees WERE still committing sin...right?
That Jesus who was trying to turn the Pharisees from their wickedness?

 

[At Peace]

Admittedly Jesus says "sin no more". I am not condoning that we continue in sin.

Please be careful there.

Matt 16:6; And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
Leaven "puffs-up" Leaven is pious and self-righteous.

Leaven is sin.

 

[Curtis]

Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[B-A-C]

You do realize that Jesus WAS perfect, and the Pharisees WERE still committing sin...right?
That Jesus who was trying to turn the Pharisees from their wickedness?

You do realize their greatest sin was no grace, mercy or compassion.. right?

 

[At Peace]

You do realize their greatest sin was no grace, mercy or compassion.. right?

Are those sins worse than the sins people today won't "cease from"? (1 Peter 4:1)
I feel that theft and adultery are also without grace, mercy, and compassion.
The Pharisee in the parable thought he was OK with God, but under the veneer, he was just like every other sinner who won't humble himself before God.
I rejoice in God's gifts that have allowed the repentant to remain humble before Him.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

I rejoice in God's gifts that have allowed the repentant to remain humble before Him.

I would say that the God you mention here is a very kind God to give such empowering gifts to those who repent.

Surely those not knowing God should hear about the kindness of God !

And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, Who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:1-10

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. Titus 3:3-11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. Titus 2:11-15


Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

Are those sins worse than the sins people today won't "cease from"? (1 Peter 4:1)

Matt 23:23; Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus said they were worse.

Matt 23:23; “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

'tis I, sticking my nose in again,

Matt 23:23; Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus said they were worse.

Matt 23:23; “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.

One 'bit' sticks out to me here and that is Faith.

Sort of keeping with the idea of what this thread is about, (i think?), and not overlooking Judgement/justice and mercy one bit, did the Scribes and Pharisees overlook faith. From the words of Jesus, or perhaps better put, from the Word of God, they did.

So, in considering this, in what way would this be deemed reason for "What sorrow awaits you" and "woe unto you"?

Is it perhaps the order given here or does that not matter?
Judgement of God is Just (hence Justice?) [we need to remember that these men were 'ambassadors' and 'shepherds/pastorsteachers' in a way. who were presenting the Way of God to the masses] .
Mercy is between Judgement/Justice and Faith.
May I present an order that may have been appropriate to them and even to us men, today?

Without Faith it is impossible to please God. So in order to properly teach Judgement, the first place to look is Faith. Then having faith, Mercy is 'required' to take over and Judgement will then be just?

I see the Lord saying more than once, "Thy Faith has...." made thee whole, healed you, etc
Given, The Judgement of God is not needing my presentation here, in the slightest, and i do not propose that He should follow me, God forbid. And surely His judgement is such that He knows all at once.

However (forgive me Lord if i speak/write out of context) the way the Lord Jesus Christ 'displayed' it appears to be in that order I have presented.
By Faith, God is pleased, and Mercy can be 'validated' on that alone and needs no further 'convincing' [I say that because the final or end of the matter is Judgement which requires that the Law be convinced of a matter] and hence the judgement is passed.

Is it correct that the Scribes, Pharisees and Teachers of the Law were perverting this because they did not take into account the faith either of God or of the individual or for that matter the people as one? The standards they projected upon the people were that of looking at a strict legal requirement where any faith was ignored and hence no mercy could be or would be or should be shown?

If so, do we ever go about our ways with others in the same way?

But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:6


Bless you ....><>

 

[At Peace]

Greetings,
I would say that the God you mention here is a very kind God to give such empowering gifts to those who repent.
Surely those not knowing God should hear about the kindness of God !
And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, Who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:1-10

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. Titus 3:3-11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. Titus 2:11-15
Bless you ....><>

Amen!!!

 

[At Peace]

Matt 23:23; Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus said they were worse.

Matt 23:23; “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.

Weightier than tithing.
Isn't it a good thing that those who walk in the Spirit are no longer chained to the law?
That we can naturally do the things of light?
Thanks be to God!

 

[At Peace]

Greetings,
'tis I, sticking my nose in again,
One 'bit' sticks out to me here and that is Faith.

Sort of keeping with the idea of what this thread is about, (i think?), and not overlooking Judgement/justice and mercy one bit, did the Scribes and Pharisees overlook faith. From the words of Jesus, or perhaps better put, from the Word of God, they did.
So, in considering this, in what way would this be deemed reason for "What sorrow awaits you" and "woe unto you"?

Is it perhaps the order given here or does that not matter?
Judgement of God is Just (hence Justice?) [we need to remember that these men were 'ambassadors' and 'shepherds/pastorsteachers' in a way. who were presenting the Way of God to the masses] .
Mercy is between Judgement/Justice and Faith.
May I present an order that may have been appropriate to them and even to us men, today?

Without Faith it is impossible to please God. So in order to properly teach Judgement, the first place to look is Faith. Then having faith, Mercy is 'required' to take over and Judgement will then be just?

I see the Lord saying more than once, "Thy Faith has...." made thee whole, healed you, etc
Given, The Judgement of God is not needing my presentation here, in the slightest, and i do not propose that He should follow me, God forbid. And surely His judgement is such that He knows all at once.

However (forgive me Lord if i speak/write out of context) the way the Lord Jesus Christ 'displayed' it appears to be in that order I have presented.
By Faith, God is pleased, and Mercy can be 'validated' on that alone and needs no further 'convincing' [I say that because the final or end of the matter is Judgement which requires that the Law be convinced of a matter] and hence the judgement is passed.

Is it correct that the Scribes, Pharisees and Teachers of the Law were perverting this because they did not take into account the faith either of God or of the individual or for that matter the people as one? The standards they projected upon the people were that of looking at a strict legal requirement where any faith was ignored and hence no mercy could be or would be or should be shown?

If so, do we ever go about our ways with others in the same way?

But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:6
Bless you ....><>

It is written, that "the just shall live by faith". (Rom 1:17)
What do the unjust live by?
Not faith.

 

[amadeus2]

So Bear if someone tells you you are child of the devil and not saved and backs that up with false doctrine, do you just be nice and encourage that??

how do you handle it?

Not Bro Bear, but how about talking to God about it? Remember that they named Jesus a follower of Beelzebub.

When our own doctrines and beliefs and actions are always correct then we'll in a position to criticize others, but until then would it not be better to remain silent and to pray?