The State of Theology,,, Survey test, where you stand? Have fun.

[PloughBoy]

The State of Theology

thestateoftheology.com

 

[B-A-C]

I have a little bit of a problem with question #6.

If we believe Jesus is God, then He always existed even before the physical creation of what we call the universe (and all the stars and planets in it).
However when creation was finally created, Jesus was the first thing created in that creation. (That doesn't mean He didn't exist before this time)
So it's a difficult question to answer, the way it is worded.

 

[Mister]

That was a very nice survey. I see what you are saying @B-A-C. I had similar situations where I would have wanted to add an asterisk with a clarification attached. For example, in #31 if you changed Religion to Jesus Christ, I would have changed my answer from agree to disagree. There are so many religions! Truth is objective based on the God's ways and laws. Pilate asked what is truth while Truth was right in front of him!!!

Surveys are constrained from context. But I see their point here, after reading their breakdowns of each question. The trend shows as we are getting closer to the end of this age and Jesus Christ's return is that truth comes from within and that we are the makers of it . I couldn't even tie my shoes without God, but I dare to say I made truth from nothing???

 

[PloughBoy]

I have a little bit of a problem with question #6.

If we believe Jesus is God, then He always existed even before the physical creation of what we call the universe (and all the stars and planets in it).
However when creation was finally created, Jesus was the first thing created in that creation. (That doesn't mean He didn't exist before this time)
So it's a difficult question to answer, the way it is worded.

lets us remember The name "Jesus The Anointed One" is like a title. For his name is "Immanuel" has always existed with His Father and The Body HE occupies was Prepared By HIS Father and it never saw corruption or decay, so he could walk the EARTH and carry out His mission, and becoming The 1 st. Of a New Creation. The Second ADAM, The BODY. Jesus is not a Creation. He is The Creator of all created things. The Son of GOD Created everything That has been created, both "Invisible and Visible" on earth and in Heaven, angels, everything. Jesus is The Creator these things are describe in The Bible. Why because His Father told him too. You already know this already.
(Colossians 1)BSB
"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and onearth, visible and invisible, whether thrones ordominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…" ........... [Note: not 1st created, but the only "BEGOTTEN" The 1st born of many brethren's. after Billions and trillions and throughout ETERNITY, years these words will still be living and known and express through "The GLORIFICATION "THE MANIFESTATION of GOD" which will be us.

Jesus is not a creation. JESUS is The 1st. BORN of GOD and HE always existed, and Not a creation. His body was prepared. He is The Only "begotten SON of GOD" and always will be that. A Human being do not have The "ABILITY" to understand what a "GOD" is. Jesus is not a Creature HE is A Being. Now how GOD does exist. We do not know. Because He is GOD and A Brain cannot comprehend that. Brains do not go to heaven or enter, into "Eternity" brains die. And after a "Billions" of years we still will not now how "GOD" and HIS SON exist. and we will be learning about HIM every moment of our Everlasting "EXISTENCE" and Jesus alone is The "ALPHA and THE OMEGA" and The Father is greater than that.

If a Christian only thinks Heaven, that christian is coming up short for that place is going to be destroyed By GOD so says the Bible The Word of GOD, that place is "temporal". Jesus is handing out "ETERNITY" and that is way beyond Heaven. Heaven is boring in relationship in What The FATHER has in stored for us.

"But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the [the being of man] heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him."
And this place is beyond HEAVEN, Heaven will be a thing of the Distant pass that never will be remembered.

How you like that? Whatever you are going threw now, in your righteousness suffering and holiness and Sanctification will be worth it , and much more. "What will a person give in exchange for their soul" "What would you risks in exchange for the Salvation of your soul"?
(Mark 8)BSB
"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and for the gospel will save it. What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?…"

We must not listen to these modern Day "Prophets' We must keep "High Octane" Fear in Our tanks! And Put Locking Gas Caps on Our Fear Tanks, because they will steal our "Holy Fear" we have in GOD. That Devil is slick. He will steal your "Holy FEAR" every drop. For our Tanks are Filled with something, much more "precious than GOLD" and the Devil knows it. For he is a Liar and a Thief and a skill Craftsman in his deception, To lead us off The PATH of "Holiness" for without Holiness no one will see GOD.

(Hebrews 12)NKJB
14Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16lest there be any fornicator or [f]profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears."

 

[Garee]

lets us remember The name "Jesus The Anointed One" is like a title. For his name is "Immanuel" has always existed with His Father and The Body HE occupies was Prepared By HIS Father and it never saw corruption or decay, so he could walk the EARTH and carry out His mission, and becoming The 1 st. Of a New Creation. The Second ADAM, The BODY. Jesus is not a Creation. He is The Creator of all created things. The Son of GOD Created everything That has been created, both "Invisible and Visible" on earth and in Heaven, angels, everything. Jesus is The Creator these things are describe in The Bible. Why because His Father told him too. You already know this already.

Yes the Son of God not seen the Creator .He created the Son of man Jesus.

I would be careful with the idea that the Son of man is not a creation . If it has form made up of the rudiments of this world .It shows the need of a Creator .

Jesus who lived in a body of death same as ours. He was kept from corrupting to the point never rising again. He did not literal die and his flesh return to the dust .He was strengthened by the unseen Father three days and nights so that he would not die and return to the dust.
The born again doctrine that serve all of the flesh of corrupted mankind . Even Jesus the Son of man declaring in John 6 his flesh profits for nothing as the things seen (the temporal)

 

[PloughBoy]

Yes the Son of God not seen the Creator .He created the Son of man Jesus.

I would be careful with the idea that the Son of man is not a creation . If it has form made up of the rudiments of this world .It shows the need of a Creator .

Jesus who lived in a body of death same as ours. He was kept from corrupting to the point never rising again. He did not literal die and his flesh return to the dust .He was strengthened by the unseen Father three days and nights so that he would not die and return to the dust.
The born again doctrine that serve all of the flesh of corrupted mankind . Even Jesus the Son of man declaring in John 6 his flesh profits for nothing as the things seen (the temporal)

I'm not looking for a teacher and I would be a Big dumb fool to even think of letting any corrupted creature to instruct me any thing about my Father who art in heaven. How stupid could i be , to let a dying brain give my Soul instructions about The Infinite and if I did Jesus death would be in-vain. For those of us who are THE SONS of GOD to entertain such a evil notion would Bring the Discipline Hand of Our Heaven FATHER upon our being.
Be Gone SATAN!! How dare YOU instruct us about Our FATHER BE GONE SATAN! DEVIL you HAVE NO right to SPEAK TO us EVIL ONE! Worker of DARKNESS. Be gone evil one! In the Name of JESUS! You are out order! WORLDLY ONE.

My message is not to you worldly worker of darkness.

 

[PloughBoy]

I am glad that some have enjoyed takin this survey poll. It is not a matter of one is wrong and the other is right. But it help us view our own faith and make us view our "theological: thoughts. and not our "religious" views in thinking of The Biblical Text.

 

[Hekuran]

He did not literal die and his flesh return to the dust .He was strengthened by the unseen Father three days and nights so that he would not die and return to the dust.

That's not what the apostles taught

Paul says


For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
1 Corinthians 15

There's no suggestion anywhere in the scriptures that Jesus' death was less than literal.

 

[Garee]

That's not what the apostles taught

Paul says


For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
1 Corinthians 15

There's no suggestion anywhere in the scriptures that Jesus' death was less than literal.

Thanks I would offer. Sufferings unto death is not dead never to rise again to new spirit life. I understand it as a living sacrifice. . The Father giving His Spirit life in jeopardy of His own Spirit strengthening the work of the two walking in agreement as one witness of God..it is testified in Matthew 26. After the first part of the demonstration in the garden of Gethsemane he was still alive and performed part two the cross demonstration .


Matthew 26:37-39King James Version And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.


Jesus as the Son of man had no power of his own will again a living sacrifice in a earthen body of death .

Two to establish the government of peace as their combined understanding it surpasses our human understanding

The word hell, the suffering we have in the flesh must be defined as a living sacrifice. As believer yoked with Christ the burden is made lighter .

Hell does not continue after one takes their last breath . That kind of idea came from those who do despite fullness
of Christ's grace .


They teach that only a Queen of heaven received the fullness of grace the rest of creation a unknown remnant and is why they trust purgatory an imaginary place where men can continue to suffer with no end in sight. . the wondering doctrine as a law of the fathers , oral traditions of men .

Dead is dead never to rise again to new spirit life .

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Deader than a doornail

Jesus wept (John 11) because of mans faithless understanding did not agree with his .

 

[B-A-C]

Thanks I would offer. Sufferings unto death is not dead never to rise again to new spirit life. I understand it as a living sacrifice.

In a way this is correct, but it isn't the whole picture. We do "die to self" (our own selfish desires and sinful ways)
But eventually we really do die a physical death.
But also eventually everyone will be resurrected.

 

[Hekuran]

Thanks I would offer. Sufferings unto death is not dead never to rise again to new spirit life. I understand it as a living sacrifice. . The Father giving His Spirit life in jeopardy of His own Spirit strengthening the work of the two walking in agreement as one witness of God..it is testified in Matthew 26. After the first part of the demonstration in the garden of Gethsemane he was still alive and performed part two the cross demonstration .


Matthew 26:37-39King James Version And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.


Jesus as the Son of man had no power of his own will again a living sacrifice in a earthen body of death .

Two to establish the government of peace as their combined understanding it surpasses our human understanding

The word hell, the suffering we have in the flesh must be defined as a living sacrifice. As believer yoked with Christ the burden is made lighter .

Hell does not continue after one takes their last breath . That kind of idea came from those who do despite fullness
of Christ's grace .


They teach that only a Queen of heaven received the fullness of grace the rest of creation a unknown remnant and is why they trust purgatory an imaginary place where men can continue to suffer with no end in sight. . the wondering doctrine as a law of the fathers , oral traditions of men .

Dead is dead never to rise again to new spirit life .

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Deader than a doornail

Jesus wept (John 11) because of mans faithless understanding did not agree with his .

Christians believe death is real, and the promise of resurrection overcomes it. Lazarus, Jairus' daughter, and the widow's son at Nain were all dead, and Jesus raised them.

Jesus didn't redefine death, he conquered it.

 

[Garee]

Christians believe death is real, and the promise of resurrection overcomes it. Lazarus, Jairus' daughter, and the widow's son at Nain were all dead, and Jesus raised them.

Jesus didn't redefine death, he conquered it.

I do not think I said death is not real. I am more interested in how the bible defines it .

But a person would have to first define death as to the end of corruption. I would think the reference in Ecclesiastic below defines dead as the end of sufferings in a corrupted dying body .

Some extend that a say some never die they go on sufferings even after they no longer have a spirit .

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I think Genesis where most doctrines are founded to include the doctrine of death as two kinds

Satan defines dead as . .

Genesis 3: 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 

[Garee]

I'm not looking for a teacher and I would be a Big dumb fool to even think of letting any corrupted creature to instruct me any thing about my Father who art in heaven. How stupid could i be , to let a dying brain give my Soul instructions about The Infinite and if I did Jesus death would be in-vain. For those of us who are THE SONS of GOD to entertain such a evil notion would Bring the Discipline Hand of Our Heaven FATHER upon our being.
Be Gone SATAN!! How dare YOU instruct us about Our FATHER BE GONE SATAN! DEVIL you HAVE NO right to SPEAK TO us EVIL ONE! Worker of DARKNESS. Be gone evil one! In the Name of JESUS! You are out order! WORLDLY ONE.

My message is not to you worldly worker of darkness.

Hi thanks for the reply . What's with the CAPTOL LETTERS ?

Yes , One is our teacher in heaven, God in Christ. we can offer our own private interpretations as personal commentaries . But witness of Christ ,two is greater

He lovingly commands to call not man one earth the one good teaching master as Lord . Even the Son of man Jesus dared not stand in the holy unseen place of God . (the abomination of desolation ) Only God can rebuke Satan you like any believer to include Jesus the Son of man has no power to rebuke .

If you desired to correct me you would simply offer the verse that you hope applies .

Define dead according the the witness of the word ?

Then define the second death seeing its appointed to all men to die once .

 

[B-A-C]

Satan defines dead as . .

Genesis 3: 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

I'm not sure I would trust someone who is a liar and the father of all lies to be the source of my definitions.

Even the Son of man Jesus dared not stand in the holy unseen place of God . (the abomination of desolation ) Only God can rebuke Satan you like any believer to include Jesus the Son of man has no power to rebuke .

So do you believe Satan is more powerful than Jesus? According to Jewish tradition (it isn't in the Bible) the abomination of desolation is the sacrificing of swine in the temple in Jerusalem by Antiochus Epiphanes III,
(Wikipedia incorrectly has Antiochus IV ( Abomination of desolation - Wikipedia
Can I prove this in the Bible? No, can you prove otherwise? No. Jesus isn't only the Son of man, He is also the Son of God. God Himself.

Then define the second death seeing its appointed to all men to die once .

All men die a physical death. All men are resurrected again. Some face the second death.

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8; But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

[NASB] Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Jesus has authority, even authority over Satan. In fact Jesus has defeated Satan.

Col 2:15; When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

 

[B-A-C]

Only God can rebuke Satan you like any believer to include Jesus the Son of man has no power to rebuke .

Matt 16:23; But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.”

Some extend that a say some never die they go on sufferings even after they no longer have a spirit .

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The first body returns the dust, the second body is immortal. The spirit is in heaven with God.. but does being with God mean no suffering, or they are without a spirit? ( a bad assumption )

Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night,

Just because your spirit is in heaven with God doesn't mean it can't be tormented. (with or without a body)

 

[Hekuran]

I do not think I said death is not real. I am more interested in how the bible defines it .

But a person would have to first define death as to the end of corruption. I would think the reference in Ecclesiastic below defines dead as the end of sufferings in a corrupted dying body .

Some extend that a say some never die they go on sufferings even after they no longer have a spirit .

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I think Genesis where most doctrines are founded to include the doctrine of death as two kinds

Satan defines dead as . .

Genesis 3: 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

The Bible doesn't have a definition of death other than the natural understanding: a living breathing being stops living and becomes a corpse.

 

[Garee]

The Bible doesn't have a definition of death other than the natural understanding: a living breathing being stops living and becomes a corpse.

That the reason Christ wept because of their misunderstanding.(groaning in himself) There is no sufferings after one takes their last breath the appointment all men make .


John11 :32-39 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled. And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
Jesus wept.( in unbelief) Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him! And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died? Jesus therefore again groaning in himself (in unbelief)cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it. Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days

He did not stink like Jesus the father kept his body of corrupted to the point that it could rise (real death ) a parable of our rebirth.

Not dead never to rise to new spirt life. That the other kind of death that the disciples were confused with .

Natural mans temporal spirit under the letter of the law. thou shall not eat. Death.

Unconverted mankind is not given a new eternal spirit they will not rise on the last day .

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


On the last day under the Sun the second death (the letter of the law) it will be tossed into the fiery judgment of God never to rises and condemn whole creation for ever and ever more .

Hell is the living sufferings we experience in these earthen bodies of death the second death t he death of death itself..

The idea that mankind will continue to suffer when truly dead was designed by the fathers as a law of men needed to deceive those who trust in purgatory a continue sufferings with no end in sight

 

[Hekuran]

Seems confusing and unnecessary to me. I don't find any evidence for different kinds of death in the Bible, and you've added your own phrases of explanation to the Bible text here to make your point.

One day I will die. I'll stop breathing, brain activity will stop and I'll be buried. Then, when Jesus returns my hope is that I'll rise in glory.

 

[Garee]

Seems confusing and unnecessary to me. I don't find any evidence for different kinds of death in the Bible, and you've added your own phrases of explanation to the Bible text here to make your point.

Its why Jesus wept in John 11 because they had no understanding of faith .They were looking to the temporal things and not the eternal .

Not mixing of faith in those parables ..

The father kept Lazarus body of corrupting to the point of death never to rise to new spirit life for four days Jesus for three a difference for a purpose ?

In way we have to tools for rightly dividing the parable giving us 20 /20 vision. Again if we mix faith the eternal with what the eyes see the temporal. . then we have the gospel understanding .

Its one of the valuable teaching keys that the gates of hell could never prevail against

2 Corinthians 4: 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

In that way The father kept Jesus from the pit of corruption dead never to rise to new born again spirt life .

Isaiah 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.


Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; (the sufferings of this life living in a powerless body of death ) neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption( the bottomless pit. .)

 

[Hekuran]

None of the assertions you make here are supported by the Bible text.