In Revelation 12:6,14 the woman, Israel, is taken into the desert to be cared for and protected from the Devil for 3.5 years. This is usually understood to be the 2nd half of the tribulation. The 2nd half of the tribulation is also considered to be the time of Jacob's trouble and the time the beast sets up the abomination of desolation. This is a time of great persecution of the Jews and two thirds of the Jews are supposed to perish. How do you reconcile this? Some have said that only some of the Jews are protected but the passage says the woman is cared for, not a small fraction. Any thoughts?
The woman and the dragon
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RJ
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Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
During the end times, many may say that they have done great things for the Lord, but their fate is sealed because they do not have the Lord in them and have never been saved!
Matthew 7: 13-14 13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
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Johnnyv.... the only jews who are cared for are those who flee to the wilderness when they see the city surrounded (matt 24 mark 13 luke 21)... these are those who I believe the 144,000 servants of God preach the gospel to so that they are grafted back through Christ...(we see the first mention of people in heaven just after the 144,000 are sealed which means this was the gathering together and the 144,000 at same event)(servants are for preaching the gospel, what else would be left at this time?)
we see in daniel 11:41 that the Antichrist cannot go into the areas of edom moab which is in the wilderness east with petra.
the antichrist only continues for 42 months so it is satan who is the 8th kingdom of Rev 17:11 after being a part of the 7th which is the AC's kingdom. He comes down knowing his time is 3.5 years left
we see in daniel 11:41 that the Antichrist cannot go into the areas of edom moab which is in the wilderness east with petra.
the antichrist only continues for 42 months so it is satan who is the 8th kingdom of Rev 17:11 after being a part of the 7th which is the AC's kingdom. He comes down knowing his time is 3.5 years left
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It is also satan who is REVEALED by sitting and claiming to be god... the antichrist is already revealed (now) when he makes a 7 year treaty...
Truth Be Told. Thanks for the input. If those preserved by God are believing Jews then the woman must represent believers (it is the woman who is preserved, not just a remmnent). If so then who are her offspring that are being persecuted by the dragon (12:17)? If they are gentile believers and the woman represents Jewish believers then God has makes a distinction between Jewish and Gentile believers which conflicts with Paul's teaching that there is no distinction between Jew or Greek in Christianity (Romans 2:10, Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11). I still havn't seen an interpretation that can be applied consistantly to the whole vision.
As for the 144,000 being evangelists, I don't think that just because the multitude was mentioned after the 144,000 that you can conclude the multitude was converted by them. The multitude are also not the first people to be mentioned in heaven. The elders and the souls under the alter were already mentioned.
As for the 144,000 being evangelists, I don't think that just because the multitude was mentioned after the 144,000 that you can conclude the multitude was converted by them. The multitude are also not the first people to be mentioned in heaven. The elders and the souls under the alter were already mentioned.
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I would like to know where the idea that 2/3 of the Jews are supposed to perish. Can you tell us from where you derive this belief?
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Johnnyv
The 144,000 are servants what is it that you feel they do? The fact that just after the 3.5 year mark when they are told to flee the 144,000 servants are sealed... what is a servants first and foremost job? Preach the gospel.... who's going to preach Jesus to those who flee? The fact that they are sealed and then we see saints in Heaven shows Jesus was just in the sky for the gathering and the Jews saw this and the 144,000 will then preach Christ the messiah..(rev 1:7)
Those that DONT FLEE are the offspring johnny
The 144,000 are servants what is it that you feel they do? The fact that just after the 3.5 year mark when they are told to flee the 144,000 servants are sealed... what is a servants first and foremost job? Preach the gospel.... who's going to preach Jesus to those who flee? The fact that they are sealed and then we see saints in Heaven shows Jesus was just in the sky for the gathering and the Jews saw this and the 144,000 will then preach Christ the messiah..(rev 1:7)
Those that DONT FLEE are the offspring johnny
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Not from scripture....
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The souls under the alter are those killed on earth at the alter before satan sitting as god..... this is why they are told to wait a little longer while their brothers are added to them.....
Do you think we die and then go to heaven to hang out under an alter and crying out over those who killed us?
And that they wait UNTIL 7:9 which is a little longer because we see the sixth seal is Jesus coming right after sky stars dark etc.. notice matt 24 mark 13 and luke 21 all have the 6th seal and then Jesus comes....
Do you think we die and then go to heaven to hang out under an alter and crying out over those who killed us?
And that they wait UNTIL 7:9 which is a little longer because we see the sixth seal is Jesus coming right after sky stars dark etc.. notice matt 24 mark 13 and luke 21 all have the 6th seal and then Jesus comes....
Truth Be Told: According to Revelation they are righteous people who sing a new song. A servants first job is to obey his master. How many commands deal with leading a righteous life and how many commands are there to go out and witness? Not every believer is an evangelist, only some have that gift. There is no evidence that the 144,000 had that gift or engaged in evangelism. This is something people read into the text. This is not to say that evangelism is not an important thing nor that Christians need not be witnesses but there is a difference between the average Christian and an evangelist. The multitudes can be explained by the normal witnessing by Christians and does not require 144,000 special evangelists.
Do you think we die and then go to heaven to hang out under an alter and crying out over those who killed us?
For those that are martyred, yes, although I think it is more symbolic than literal. They get their answer in 16:7 where the altar says God's judgments are just. They will be avenged when Jesus returns and judges the world.
Ophel: The idea comes from Zecheriah 13:8 which many take as a future event. I'm pretty sure I got it out of one of Hal Lindsay's books but I can't find it at the moment.
Do you think we die and then go to heaven to hang out under an alter and crying out over those who killed us?
For those that are martyred, yes, although I think it is more symbolic than literal. They get their answer in 16:7 where the altar says God's judgments are just. They will be avenged when Jesus returns and judges the world.
Ophel: The idea comes from Zecheriah 13:8 which many take as a future event. I'm pretty sure I got it out of one of Hal Lindsay's books but I can't find it at the moment.
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A servants number 1 job is to spread the GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL.... you should know that.....
1. How will the jews hear the gospel?
2. What do 144,000 jews doing?
Since its the half way breaking and surrounding the city and the jews flee and then the 144,000 do what?
Face it there is only one job to do for the jews and that is TO GET THEM THE GOSPEL AND SALVATION
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PROTECTED JEWS ARE DOING FOR 3.5 YEARS?
THEY ARE LEARNING WHO JESUS THEIR MESSIAH IS.
1. How will the jews hear the gospel?
2. What do 144,000 jews doing?
Since its the half way breaking and surrounding the city and the jews flee and then the 144,000 do what?
Face it there is only one job to do for the jews and that is TO GET THEM THE GOSPEL AND SALVATION
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PROTECTED JEWS ARE DOING FOR 3.5 YEARS?
THEY ARE LEARNING WHO JESUS THEIR MESSIAH IS.
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Jon....lol really
You say: a servants first job is to obey his master.
This makes no sense.. you CANT OBEY your master until you know what the master wants.... you learn this in the GOSPELS
You say: a servants first job is to obey his master.
This makes no sense.. you CANT OBEY your master until you know what the master wants.... you learn this in the GOSPELS
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Jon said: Ophel: The idea comes from Zecheriah 13:8 which many take as a future event. I'm pretty sure I got it out of one of Hal Lindsay's books but I can't find it at the moment.
TRUTH BE TOLD replies: see this is where you get some of your false beliefs, you ingest Hal..... hal teaches pre trib rapture which isnt true....is that what you believe johnnyv?
People get your own study do OT use other peoples writings or study bibles.... only get Gods word in your head...
TRUTH BE TOLD replies: see this is where you get some of your false beliefs, you ingest Hal..... hal teaches pre trib rapture which isnt true....is that what you believe johnnyv?
People get your own study do OT use other peoples writings or study bibles.... only get Gods word in your head...
A servants number 1 job is to spread the GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL.... you should know that.....
If I hire a servant, what is his number one duty. not to spread the gospel but to do what I tell him. The job does not change when the master is God. It is to do as God says. Why did god create man? Not to spread the gospel but to glorify god. that is still our number one task. Does spreading the gospel glorify God? Of course so that is one of the things we do.
1. How will the jews hear the gospel?
And what will the church be doing during this time? It already has organizations that focus on converting the Jews. This will probably increase during the tribulation.
2. What do 144,000 jews doing?
I don't know. The Bible doesn't say.
You say: a servants first job is to obey his master.
This makes no sense.. you CANT OBEY your master until you know what the master wants.... you learn this in the GOSPELS
How long does it take to learn? Most converts have a pretty good idea what's expected of them within a few weeks.
Touche. I did refer to Hal but I don't much agree with him nor am I pre-trib. But he puts out a popular interpretation of end time prophecy.
If I hire a servant, what is his number one duty. not to spread the gospel but to do what I tell him. The job does not change when the master is God. It is to do as God says. Why did god create man? Not to spread the gospel but to glorify god. that is still our number one task. Does spreading the gospel glorify God? Of course so that is one of the things we do.
1. How will the jews hear the gospel?
And what will the church be doing during this time? It already has organizations that focus on converting the Jews. This will probably increase during the tribulation.
2. What do 144,000 jews doing?
I don't know. The Bible doesn't say.
You say: a servants first job is to obey his master.
This makes no sense.. you CANT OBEY your master until you know what the master wants.... you learn this in the GOSPELS
How long does it take to learn? Most converts have a pretty good idea what's expected of them within a few weeks.
Touche. I did refer to Hal but I don't much agree with him nor am I pre-trib. But he puts out a popular interpretation of end time prophecy.
