There is no trinity in 1 John 5:7.

[Rejoice evermore.]

There is no so called "trinity" in 1 John 5:7. Here is how the verse is written in the Word of God:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
— (1 John 5:7).

Why is there three that bear record in heaven? Because:

"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
— (2 Corinthians 13:1).

And what is the record that these three bear in heaven of? This is the record:

"...That God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
— (1 John 5:11-12).

How did the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ bear record in heaven that God hath given to us eternal life? He did so when his Son:

"...Was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
— (Matthew 3:16-17).

God the Father is the only true God. As his Son said:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
— (John 17:3).

Why did the Word of God bear record in heaven? Because it is forever settled in heaven. As it is written:

"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
— (Psalm 119:89).

The Word of God is:

"...Quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
— (Hebrews 4:12).

The Word of God has borne record in heaven from Genesis to Revelation that God hath given us eternal life. Wherefore, Jesus Christ said:

"...These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."
— (Luke 24:44).

And God's Word was with him in the beginning and is him:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
— (John 1:1).

Contrary to popular belief, there was no co-equal God with him in the beginning. As the LORD of hosts said:

"...Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any."
— (Isaiah 44:8).

And how did the Holy Ghost bear record in heaven? It was poured out from heaven when Jesus was glorified. As it is written:

"(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
— (John 7:39).

And the Spirit itself:

"...Beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
— (Romans 8:16-17).

Who is the Holy Ghost? He is the Almighty God. He is the Holy Father:

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."
— (John 17:11).

And God is a Spirit:

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
— (John 4:24).

God anointed Jesus Christ his Son:

"...With the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."
— (Acts 10:38).

Wherefore, Jesus Christ called that Holy Spirit that was dwelling in him, his Father:

"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
— (John 14:10).

It is therefore written in the scripture, that:

"...God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself..."
— (2 Corinthians 5:19).

It is therefore written concerning the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost that:

"...These three are one."
— (1 John 5:7).

Praise the Lord! He that is of God heareth God’s words.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

There is no so called "trinity" in 1 John 5:7. Here is how the verse is written in the Word of God:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
— (1 John 5:7).

Why is there three that bear record in heaven? Because:

"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
— (2 Corinthians 13:1).

And what is the record that these three bear in heaven of? This is the record:

"...That God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
— (1 John 5:11-12).

How did the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ bear record in heaven that God hath given to us eternal life? He did so when his Son:

"...Was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
— (Matthew 3:16-17).

God the Father is the only true God. As his Son said:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
— (John 17:3).

Why did the Word of God bear record in heaven? Because it is forever settled in heaven. As it is written:

"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
— (Psalm 119:89).

The Word of God is:

"...Quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
— (Hebrews 4:12).

The Word of God has borne record in heaven from Genesis to Revelation that God hath given us eternal life. Wherefore, Jesus Christ said:

"...These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."
— (Luke 24:44).

And God's Word was with him in the beginning and is him:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
— (John 1:1).

Contrary to popular belief, there was no co-equal God with him in the beginning. As the LORD of hosts said:

"...Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any."
— (Isaiah 44:8).

And how did the Holy Ghost bear record in heaven? It was poured out from heaven when Jesus was glorified. As it is written:

"(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
— (John 7:39).

And the Spirit itself:

"...Beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
— (Romans 8:16-17).

Who is the Holy Ghost? He is the Almighty God. He is the Holy Father:

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."
— (John 17:11).

And God is a Spirit:

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
— (John 4:24).

God anointed Jesus Christ his Son:

"...With the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."
— (Acts 10:38).

Wherefore, Jesus Christ called that Holy Spirit that was dwelling in him, his Father:

"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
— (John 14:10).

It is therefore written in the scripture, that:

"...God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself..."
— (2 Corinthians 5:19).

It is therefore written concerning the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost that:

"...These three are one."
— (1 John 5:7).

Praise the Lord! He that is of God heareth God’s words.

1 Corinthians 2:13-16​

​

13 These are the things we are talking about when we avoid the manner of speaking that human wisdom would dictate and instead use a manner of speaking taught by the Spirit, by which we explain things of the Spirit to people who have the Spirit. 14 Now the natural man does not receive the things from the Spirit of God — to him they are nonsense! Moreover, he is unable to grasp them, because they are evaluated through the Spirit. 15 But the person who has the Spirit can evaluate everything, while no one is in a position to evaluate him.16 For who has known the mind of Adonai?Who will counsel him?[a]But we have the mind of the Messiah!​

 

[complete]

Subject Heading:- 'There is no Trinity in 1 John 5:7'

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
— (1 John 5:7).

"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
— (2 Corinthians 13:1).

"...That God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
— (1 John 5:11-12).

"...Was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
— (Matthew 3:16-17).

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
— (John 17:3).

"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
— (Psalm 119:89).

"...Quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
— (Hebrews 4:12).

"...These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."
— (Luke 24:44).

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
— (John 1:1).

"...Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any."
— (Isaiah 44:8).

"(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
— (John 7:39).

"...Beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
— (Romans 8:16-17).

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."
— (John 17:11).

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
— (John 4:24).

"...With the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."
— (Acts 10:38).

"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
— (John 14:10).

"...God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself..."
— (2 Corinthians 5:19).

"...These three are one."
— (1 John 5:7).

Praise the Lord! He that is of God heareth God’s words.

Wonderful Scriptures, @Rejoice evermore.

God is both Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I hope you are not attempting to deny the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Rejoice evermore.]

God is both Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I hope you are not attempting to deny the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Greetings, neighbor. It is written in the scripture,

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

By saying “God is both Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”, you are making it manifest that there is no light in you. Because there is no such thing written in the scripture. To not speak as the oracles of God causes confusion. Wherefore it is written:

If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God.

You would do well therefore to harken unto the Word of life which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.

Amen.

 

[complete]

Greetings, neighbor. It is written in the scripture,

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

By saying “God is both Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”, you are making it manifest that there is no light in you. Because there is no such thing written in the scripture. To not speak as the oracles of God causes confusion. Wherefore it is written:

If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God.

You would do well therefore to harken unto the Word of life which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.

Amen.

Hello @Rejoice evermore,

May God's will be done, and His Name glorified.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Curtis]

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[Rejoice evermore.]

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Amen.

Believest thou not that I am IN the Father, and the Father IN me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that DWELLETH IN ME, he doeth the works.

For IN HIM DWELLETH all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

God was manifest IN the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God was in Christ. There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

 

[complete]

​

' And, Thou, Lord,
in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth;
and the heavens are the works of thine hands:​

They shall perish; but thou remainest;
and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;​

And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up,
and they shall be changed:
but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.'​

(Heb 1:10-12)​

'For every house is builded by some man;
but he that built all things is God.'​

(Heb 3:4)​

'Who is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of every creature:​

For by Him were all things created,
that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:
all things were created by Him, and for Him:​

And He is before all things,
and by Him all things consist.'​

(Col 1:15-17)​

Praise God!

 

[complete]

'Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel,​

and His redeemer the LORD of hosts;​

I am the first, and I am the last; ​

and beside me there is no God.​

And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it,​

and set it in order for me,​

since I appointed the ancient people?​

and the things that are coming, and shall come,​

let them shew unto them.​

Fear ye not, neither be afraid:​

have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it?​

ye are even My witnesses.​

Is there a God beside me? ​

yea, there is no God;​

I know not any.'​

(Isa 44:6-8)​

​

--------------------------------​

'I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,​

which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ... ... ...​

... ... ... Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:​

and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia;​

unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira,​

and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. ... ... ...​

... ... ... And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead.​

And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me,​

Fear not; I am the first and the last:'​

(Rev 1:8, 11 & 17)​

Praise God!

 

[complete]

' Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.​

Before the mountains were brought forth,​

or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world,​

even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God.'​

(Psa 90:1-2)​

' Thy throne is established of old:​

Thou art from everlasting.'​

(Psa 93:2)​

​

--------------------------​

​

'But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah,​

though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,​

yet out of thee shall He come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel;​

whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.'​

(Micah 5:2)​

​

'But unto the Son He saith,​

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:​

a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom.'​

(Heb 1:8)​

Praise God!

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Subject Heading:- 'There is no Trinity in 1 John 5:7'

Wonderful Scriptures, @Rejoice evermore.

God is both Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I hope you are not attempting to deny the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

You know, in Judaism, "Father, Word and the Holy Spirit" means God, Torah and Israel, that's their trinity.

 

[B-A-C]

I actually agree with the title of this thread the way it is worded.
It's not in 1John 5:7; plain and simple. King James and similar translations added it. ( New King James, Modern King James, Geneva, and Bishops )

Now I do believe in the trinity and there are dozens of other scriptures to support it.
But 1John 5:7 is not one of them.

1 John 5:7
(AMPC) So there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One;
(ASV) And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
(BBE) And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is true.
(Bishops) For there are three which beare recorde in heauen, the father, the worde, and the holy ghost, and these three are one.
(BSB) For there are three that testify:
(CSB) For there are three that testify:
(ESV) For there are three that testify:
(ESV+) For there are three that testify:
(Geneva) For there are three, which beare recorde in heauen, the Father, the Worde, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(GNB) There are three witnesses:
(Greek NT) ὅτι τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ Πατήρ, ὁ Λόγος και τὸ ῞Αγιον Πνεύμα, καὶ οὗτοι οι τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι·
(GW) There are three witnesses:
(HCSB) For there are three that testify:
(KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(MKJV) For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
(NAS77) And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
(NAS95) For there are three that testify:
(NIrV) There are three that give witness about Jesus.
(NIV) For there are three that testify:
(NKJV) For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
(NLT) So we have these three witnesses—

The words in yellow above are not in any of the original manuscripts, they were added later at some point.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The words in yellow above are not in any of the original manuscripts, they were added later at some point.

yeah, so is John 7:53 - 8:12, aka “let him who has no sin cast the first stone.”

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I actually agree with the title of this thread the way it is worded.
It's not in 1John 5:7; plain and simple. King James and similar translations added it. ( New King James, Modern King James, Geneva, and Bishops )

Now I do believe in the trinity and there are dozens of other scriptures to support it.
But 1John 5:7 is not one of them.

And speaking of John 8, whether 1 John 5:7 was in the original Greek manuscript or not, the messenge is not controversial per se, basically it’s just the conclusion of Jesus’s defense of His self-witness, which is in John 8:13-20. What’s wrong is the whole system of doctrines and traditions developed out of this single verse, that’s definitely not in the Bible.

 

[complete]

You know, in Judaism, "Father, Word and the Holy Spirit" means God, Torah and Israel, that's their trinity.

Really? I thought the Torah contained only the books of the Old Testament. How would the words, 'Father, Word and the Holy Spirit', be part of their reading?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

And speaking of John 8, whether 1 John 5:7 was in the original Greek manuscript or not, the messenge is not controversial per se, basically it’s just the conclusion of Jesus’s defense of His self-witness, which is in John 8:13-20. What’s wrong is the whole system of doctrines and traditions developed out of this single verse, that’s definitely not in the Bible.

'The Pharisees therefore said unto Him,
.. "Thou bearest record of Thyself;
.... Thy record is not true."
Jesus answered and said unto them,
...... "Though I bear record of Myself, yet My record is true:
........ I know whence I came, and whither I go;
.......... but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
............ Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
.............. And yet if I judge, My judgment is true:
................ for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent Me.
.................. It is also written in your law,
.................... that the testimony of two men is true.
...................... I am one that bear witness of Myself,
........................ and the Father that sent Me beareth witness of Me."
Then said they unto Him,
......................... "Where is Thy Father?"
Jesus answered,
........................... "Ye neither know Me, nor My Father:
............................. if ye had known Me, ye should have known My Father also."
These words spake Jesus in the treasury,
as He taught in the temple:
and no man laid hands on Him;
for His hour was not yet come.'
(John 8:13-20)

* Thank you for mentioning this @Jonathan_Gale. What a wonderful Lord we have, don't we?

Praise His Holy Name.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Really? I thought the Torah contained only the books of the Old Testament. How would the words, 'Father, Word and the Holy Spirit', be part of their reading?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

No, the Torah is only the first five books, yet it's the foundation of the whole bible, Deuteronomy in particular formed Israel's national identity. Yeshua is the living breathing embodiment of the Torah, for He came not to destroy it, but to fulfill it.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

* Thank you for mentioning this @Jonathan_Gale. What a wonderful Lord we have, don't we?

Yes, this is where justice and mercy collided. Instead of being trapped in between "you're damned if you do" and "you're damned if you don't", there's a third option - mistrial!

 

[complete]

No, the Torah is only the first five books, yet it's the foundation of the whole bible, Deuteronomy in particular formed Israel's national identity. Yeshua is the living breathing embodiment of the Torah, for He came not to destroy it, but to fulfill it.

'And He said unto them,
These are the words which I spake unto you,
while I was yet with you,
that all things must be fulfilled,
which were written in
- the law of Moses, and
- in the prophets, and
- in the psalms,
concerning Me.
Then opened He their understanding,
that they might understand the scriptures,'
(Luke 24:44-45)

Hello @Jonathan_Gale,

So looking at the verses quoted above (Luke 24:44-45), when our Lord referred to, 'the Law of Moses', 'the Prophets' and 'the Psalms', if it was not the Torah that He was referring to? So, to what was He referring? The Hebrew Bible? This was translated into Greek called the Septuagint, around 286-285 B.C..

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

So looking at the verses quoted above (Luke 24:44-45), when our Lord referred to, 'the Law of Moses', 'the Prophets' and 'the Psalms', if it was not the Torah that He was referring to? So, to what was He referring? The Hebrew Bible? This was translated into Greek called the Septuagint, around 286-285 B.C..

The Hebrew bible is also known as the Old Testament or Tanakh. Tanakh or Tanach is the acronym of the its three divisions: Torah (Instruction), the first five books; Nevi'im (Prophecy), from Isaiah to Malachi; and Ketuvim (Writings), history, wisdom and poetry books, which are all the rest. "The prophets" is referring to the Nevi'im, and "the Psalms" is part of the Ketuvim.