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To Teach or Not to Teach: Critical Examination of the Bible in Schools

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To Teach or not to Teach?

CHRISTIAN SPIRITUAL FOOD·MONDAY, MAY 27, 2019



INTRODUCTION
In the United States, there has been a recent push to put the Bible back into the school curriculum, however, is this appropriate? This is a comprehensive topic for which people have very strong views; therefore, a critical examination is required be able to first understand in order to take a position on this issue.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF EDUCATION
As citizens of the United States of America, we should first ask ourselves, what is the purpose of our education system? Many will say is that the purpose of school is to educate our children. Next, we should ask, which topics and subjects should children be educated on and why? Without much debate, the basics come to mind, Math, Reading, and the Sciences. Well, how about the Arts, Music and Physical Education, and Foreign Language, is that ok for the school system to teach or expose children to the Arts? Many will say yes. Ok, how about philosophy and religion? We know that in colleges and some private schools there are many philosophy and world religion courses which educate students on different perspectives in those fields, is that appropriate for the public school system? Some will say no, others will say maybe, and others, I don’t know. Finally, we ask, is the purpose of our educational system simply to produce adults who can hold a job, or is there also a need to educate the next generation to be productive, law-abiding citizen with values and character?

HISTORY AND BACKGROUND
With any such critical and sensitive issue, we should start with the facts which are open to the public domain. Fact number one, the Bible was once taught in schools in America. Fact number two, in 1962 and 1963, the Supreme Court decided in Engel versus Vitale and Abington School District versus Schempp, that school led prayers, and Bible readings violated the first establishment clause of the First Amendment. These two landmark Supreme Court decisions centered on the place of religion in public education, and particularly the place of Protestantism, which had long been accepted as the given American faith tradition. Fact number three, the Bible is not currently banned from schools. Libraries in school can have the Bible, students can bring their Bibles to school, however since the Supreme Court ruling the Bible has not been allowed to be taught as part of the formal educational curriculum anymore.

Having the factual knowledge that the Bible was once removed from the public schools curriculum, and the knowledge that the Bible is not currently banned from the school (student can bring their own Bibles to school, teachers, however, are not able to teach from it), doesn’t that put the matter to rest? The answer is no, it does not, unfortunately. History tells us that the Supreme court is not infallible because its rulings changes with the population and the time-period. For example, under 200 years ago in the Dred Scott decision, formally Dred Scott v. John F.A. Sandford, the U.S. Supreme Court on March 6, 1857, ruled overwhelming (7–2) that African Americans were not and could never be citizens of the United States and the rights in the constitution did not extend to Blacks. Under 100 years ago, the court changed societies position on Woman’s right to vote, Under 80 years ago, the courts changed society’s position on abortion, and most recently under just 5 years ago, the Supreme Court changed society’s position on same-sex marriage. Regardless of one's position on these issues, the point is to illustrate that society’s positions change over time and therefore the fact that the court has made one interpretation on an issue is insufficient in itself in defending the status quo. Instead, one should ask, are there any benefits to teaching the Bible in the public schools, and if so, how would it be taught?

ARE THERE BENEFITS TO TEACHING THE BIBLE?
Regarding the benefit of teaching the Bible, there are two that the proponents of Bible literacy share. First, there is the historical benefit and second the benefit of teaching values. A question comes to mind, should public schools teach values? As a former school-based therapist, social service supervisor of foster care services in Baltimore City, and former school-based coordinator of mental health in Talbot County, from experience I can share that student behavior in schools are deplorable. Though certain areas are much better than others, in every state, teachers are physically assaulted by students (from 1st graders to 12th), students are sexually assaulted in schools, and in some limited cases teachers and students are having sexual relations with each other.

Since the 1850s there have been documented school shootings in America, thus it would be disingenuous for Bible literacy advocates to say that the removal of the Bible led to school shootings. However, within 3 years of its removal from schools, America noticed a dramatic increase in school shooting frequency and intensity. After over 100 years of school shootings resulting in a death toll of 4 or less per incident, within 2 years of the removal of the Bible from the school system America witnessed the first mass shooting in a school in which more than 4 people died happened in. In 1966, 2 to 3 years after the Bible and prayer were pulled from school, Charles Whitman, shot and killed 15 people and wounded 31 during a 96-minute shooting at the University of Texas. Since then the data shows that after the Bible was taken out of schools there has been the addition of metal detectors & professional security guards to deal with violence, professional therapist and counselors to deal with emotional issues, and a slew of medical services such as birth control to deal with a hyper-sexual population.
So what are we as Americans to make of this? Is there a correlation in these stats which actually reflect a relationship of causality and if so, how should we respond without infringing upon the First Amendment rights of Americans to not have religion forced upon them?

MAKING AN ARGUMENT
Being the most read book in the world, with over a thousand of years of human history, culture, tradition, customs, and known historical events, suggest that that the historical reason for teaching the Bible leaves little to be argued against. Hence it's literacy for historical purposes makes sense. However, the more beneficial/controversial focus of teaching the Bible does not seem to be the historical aspect, but the aspect of teaching of values. Many will ask, should the schools teach values? However, the answer is, they(we) already do. Most of my readers are aware that most schools have character counts coaches and lessons on diversity in which we are teaching children the value of character pillars (honesty, trustworthiness, citizenship, etc.). Proponents of Bible literacy will share that the Bible has many places where values are shared, such as the book of Proverbs.

In my research, it did become apparent that many (myself included) fail to realize that we are already teaching some of the values of the Bible in schools; however, we are just not giving it credit. I realized that the Golden rule, "treat others as you would like to be treated" taught by many teachers to students in elementary school comes from the Bible, Matthew chapter 7 verse 12. Other values such as "To whom much is given much is expected" does not come from Spider-Man the movie but from the Bible, Luke chapter 12 verse 48. Even our laws taught in Civics classes to students prohibiting murdering, stealing, and not lying, all come from the Ten Commandments in the Bible found in Exodus chapter 20. It seems that schools are already teaching Bible value since such values were the bedrock of the foundation of America evidenced by the mentioning of God in our Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and Pledge of Allegiance. Yet if a character counts coach in a school were teaching students about honesty and told a story from a Buddhist proverb which illustrated the point, many would not protest because they would get the point of the story. However, when such values come from Christian proverbs or stories, much resistance and discrimination is shown.

Some will argue that if you teach from the Christian Bible you must also allow Satanist to teach from their Bible, however such an argument commits the logical fallacy of False Dilemma/False Dichotomy. Such an argument would only be true if teaching the Bible was to teach religion. However Bible literacy seems to be about teaching values, therefore since the Satanic Bible does not have values that have been shown by evidence to enhance character and citizenship, citizens have no obligation to teach it.

SUMMARY
For one to say, we must not teach children to tell the truth or not to murder because the Bible teaches those things would not only be absurd, but it would be also be discriminating against the Bible solely based on its religious background and not the value of its content. Teaching the Bible to teach history is warranted and does not seem really up for much debate. Teaching the Bible to teach the Christian religion seems inappropriate as it would be forcing religion on it’s citizens. But teaching the Bible in order to teach values, is appropriate as our society is in desperate need of a character change. However Americans should not fool themselves into thinking that Bible literacy to teach strong values in the school will make much difference when outside of the schools, society, communities, families, and the entertainment media are not teaching such values. It makes sense (for a better society) for the school to teach values to promote good character and to indiscriminately use whichever resources (books) have been proven based on the evidence to help society meet those goals. However for it to be effective, such values should not only be taught inside the schools but outside as well.


Christian Spiritual Food

References
 
My view is that it is a good thought. Yet in our day it is fraught with risk. Who would be doing the teaching? What version of the Bible would be used? Would the teacher be born-again? Would the teacher be Protestant or Roman? Would the teacher teach that God is 'He' and not genderless?

I'm afraid that today our country is so far gone that trying to teach the Bible in public schools would be akin to casting your pearls before swine.

Quantrill
 
First of all -- Bible courses could be offered as an elective. It wouldn't matter which version would be used. It would be God's Word being presented.

The Quran would Not be allowed.

If students / parents want Quaran to be taught , they'd be free to go to a country that teaches it.

There's Always been risks involved with God's Word.

Most every town has both an RCC and public schools as well as church-related schools, so I really don't see a problem.

Taking Bible Out of schools has caused the problems.

Myself -- I'd probably promote the NKJV.

As long as there are believers in this world, no place is Too far gone for Bible to be taught.

The 'swine' Need the Gospel.
 
@Sue D.

These are 'public' schools we are talking about. When I was a kid in public school, when the country was still Christian, we never had Bible classes. We had Bibles (Protestant) in the Library you could read or check out. Now those are taken away. My point being when the people are Christian Bible classes are not needed in Public Schools. If you say that is why they are needed, then it becomes an evangelistic effort...doesn't it? That becomes a Pandora's Box.

The Bible version would matter. The Roman Church does not use the same Bible. There are other books in it. So you immediately have a conflict with Roman or Protestant.

You say the muslim will have to go to another country, but he won't say that. He will scream bloody murder over religious freedom to teach the koran in public schools also. The atheist will do the same. You will have the constant fight of 'separation of church and state'.

Plus, this emphasis upon the Bible being taught seems to be ethics and morality and values. But the Bible is not about that. It is about 'redemption'. To use it any other way is to water it down.

Understand, I am all for the Bible being taught in public schools. I would gladly be one of the Bible teachers. But it would be taught as the Word of God and Christ as the only way to being born-again and saved. But to think all these other anti-christian groups in our country are not going to go to war over that, is unreasonable. And I don't think the Supreme Court would uphold it due to the first amendment.

I believe it is a Pandora's Box today.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill -- Yes, I realize you're talking about in public schools and I believe that That's what Pres. Trump is talking about. We are in 'days' when God's Word Won't be popular.

Taking prayer out of schools was the working of One atheistic woman who was allowed to have a Loud voice. As I've heard recently, one of her sons came to Christ and is a Baptist preacher.

God's Word is about Many things. Biblical morals, ethics And redemption. The Ten Commandments. Biblical marriage, sex only meant to be within marriage. Marriage meant to last a life-time.

And ya Might be surprised at the power of the Holy Spirit in those lives / groups.

Look back at the New Testament -- wasn't it Saul who was out to 'take' Christians for persecution. God got to him and used him to Win people to Christ instead of persecute them Because of their beliefs.

Consider what's happening NOW with the abortion issue. There's Such an outcry on Both sides. But a few governors are Now signing laws for Much stricter guidelines. And some serious jail time those who perform the abortions.

"We" who are born-again believers Need to take a Strong stand For God's Word in public arena

The RCC Bible Does have extra books, but when my sister and brother-in-law were missionaries in Brazil -- they used the RCC Bible to lead the Brazilians to the Lord. That country is Strong RCC.

And there's Always been conflict between RCC and Protestantism. So - How does a person work with conflict?! Present God's Word. Salvation is The most important decision a person will Ever make.

And hasn't there Always been spiritual warfare. Just more obvious now.

Trying to remember back to when I was in grade school. We stood for the Pledge -- someone would get on the PA system and pray and read a Scripture passage and then classes would start. That was a protestant community and no one complained.

I DO remember one year that a music teacher that Everybody loved was 'removed' at the end of the semester. Seemed to be over the selection of Christmas music. The new teacher didn't use the same music and we missed that. That was back in Iowa.

Well -- the Muslim issue. I Do have some Strong feelings in that area. But need to remember that They also have a soul and need Christ. The group / as a whole/ have made it known that they Do have a goal. And 'we' should , Too. The Gospel unto salvation. These days -- as we speak -- people are dying for their stand for Christ / belief in God.
 
@Sue D.

I agree with all you say...on paper. But, the reality is this is a political move. Which would be fine if they understand the full ramifications of what they are doing and are willing to go the whole distance for it. But they won't.

There will be attacks against it due to the first amendment. The muslim will demand his fair share of time teaching the koran. So will the atheist. So will the buddhist Now you have classes in the schools teaching the kids all kinds of different religions. muslims will be allowed their berkas or whatever it is they wear. Next you will have the development of gangs of these various religions as they will be able to recognize each other. Do you see the trouble brewing?

In other words, you can't have this political move establishing the Bible to be taught in public schools until the government is willing to also say, boldly, that no other religion will be taught in these schools. Which I am all for. But they won't say that. They will calmly agree that all others should also have their 'freedom'. Thus they hang you out to dry now with you local schools teaching the koran, etc. etc.

In other words, again, it is the failure of our government in allowing all other religions to exist in our country. islam should be outlawed as it is a political/religious body. No mosques should be allowed and the ones existing should be torn down. Same with buddhism. Unless the government is willing to go back to the roots of it's origin , Christian, and do that, then it is going to do nothing but cause grief. And that grief will come upon the rest of the students in those schools.

Quantrill
 
This country was founded on the right of each individual to practice whatever religion they wanted to. Rather than being forced to 'practice' a state regulated religion. And being persecuted for Not doing so.

However -- over the years, the non-religious segment of this country has been allowed to at least Try to sanitize Christianity from Society. In place of The Risen Savior, there are all kinds of Other belief systems being allowed to 'do their thing'.

This 'grief' that you're describing has sort of always been here in various less obvious forms. And God's Word tells us that it's only going to get Worse. And maybe churches Will start being closed down. So -- are 'we' going to be willing to meet outdoors or in our various homes and when 'we' get arrested for 'meeting' -- are we going to be willing to do our own version of 'prison / jail ministry" ?! Are we going to be willing to share even when it gets more uncomfortable to do so? Because it's people's eternity that's at stake. Do we Really believe that there's an eternity in heaven / hell to be heading to?

We already Have gangs - of a totally different nature , but reach out to those gang leaders. Gang members with salvation.

What we Don't hear about is that some of the drug lords, etc. being sent to prisons, are being reached by Prison Ministry groups and are accepting Christ and starting Bible study groups.
I'd heard about that some time ago when I got to listening to the 700 Club. Normally didn't watch it and still don't. Don't agree with some of their 'stuff'. But they Do / Did have news that no one else did. Not the regular news channels.

somewhere on FB I was seeing what Might be a new fashion thing trying to become acceptable -- wearing fashionable head wrappings. Attractive young women wearing them. The idea being "how could something so attractive be Bad."

Well -- 'we' can be wearing an empty cross on a necklace and be wishing people Merry Christmas -- and I still carry a regular Bible to church where as lots of people have Bible included on their technowledgy 'thing'.

And, you're right -- it Can't be seen as a political move -- it needs to be students requesting and parents approaching school boards or helping to establish Charter schools.
We might be surprised as to what frustrated parents are ready for.
 
This country was founded on the right of each individual to practice whatever religion they wanted to. Rather than being forced to 'practice' a state regulated religion. And being persecuted for Not doing so.

However -- over the years, the non-religious segment of this country has been allowed to at least Try to sanitize Christianity from Society. In place of The Risen Savior, there are all kinds of Other belief systems being allowed to 'do their thing'.

This 'grief' that you're describing has sort of always been here in various less obvious forms. And God's Word tells us that it's only going to get Worse. And maybe churches Will start being closed down. So -- are 'we' going to be willing to meet outdoors or in our various homes and when 'we' get arrested for 'meeting' -- are we going to be willing to do our own version of 'prison / jail ministry" ?! Are we going to be willing to share even when it gets more uncomfortable to do so? Because it's people's eternity that's at stake. Do we Really believe that there's an eternity in heaven / hell to be heading to?

We already Have gangs - of a totally different nature , but reach out to those gang leaders. Gang members with salvation.

What we Don't hear about is that some of the drug lords, etc. being sent to prisons, are being reached by Prison Ministry groups and are accepting Christ and starting Bible study groups.
I'd heard about that some time ago when I got to listening to the 700 Club. Normally didn't watch it and still don't. Don't agree with some of their 'stuff'. But they Do / Did have news that no one else did. Not the regular news channels.

somewhere on FB I was seeing what Might be a new fashion thing trying to become acceptable -- wearing fashionable head wrappings. Attractive young women wearing them. The idea being "how could something so attractive be Bad."

Well -- 'we' can be wearing an empty cross on a necklace and be wishing people Merry Christmas -- and I still carry a regular Bible to church where as lots of people have Bible included on their technowledgy 'thing'.

And, you're right -- it Can't be seen as a political move -- it needs to be students requesting and parents approaching school boards or helping to establish Charter schools.
We might be surprised as to what frustrated parents are ready for.

I never go to 1776 as the foundation of our country. Our foundation was laid with those who came across on the Mayflower and those who settled at Jamestown or those who settled in Florida. All with the purpose of having the Christian faith freely demonstrated.

These would never allow any muslim or buddhist to exist among them. And neither should we.

As I said, until our country is ready to defend that. then you can forget a Bible class being taught in public schools.

Stranger
 
Quantrill -- I Do tend to agree with you. Those early groups used the Bible as their text book.

A Lot of our past has been based on Freedom OF religion Not Freedom From religion. I Should have the same freedom to read my Bible and pray on my own property as a Muslim neighbor would have the same freedom to pray five times a day and read the Koran on Their property. And I Should have the freedom to worship in the church of my choice just as the guy down the street can go to his mosque or temple or where ever to worship His way. And since we 'all' believe that 'our' way is the Only True way -- then our priority Should be THE ONLY Way / God's plan for our personal salvation. Willing to both listen to and share with.

Maybe 'we' need to start seeing this country as our 'home missions' base.
 
@Sue D.

Our past was based upon the Christian faith. It was not based upon the muslims faith. It was not based upon buddhism. etc. etc.

You are missing the point. We are not talking about freedom of religion. If you want to allow the muslim his place in our country, or the buddhist his place in our country, then why are you worried about the Bible being taught in public schools. In trying to have the Bible taught in public schools, all you are doing is opening the door for islam and buddhism to be taught in our public schools.

You already have the freedom of religion. My point was that the only religion that should be allowed is the Christian faith. Because this country was founded upon the Christian faith. You have missed entirely what I said. This is where our country will hang you out to dry.

Quantrill
 
I don't know what country you are talking about, I'll assume America as their population always talks as if no other country exist haha..
I do believe the Christian faith is being excluded as it once never use to be., the rise of migration and illegals gave way to other religions that had not necessarily been of established communities in the past.
It's also unfortunate that Christianity seems to be watered down in schools & other industry's. The atheists seem to honour Islam yet don't want to give us Christians the time of day. The ideology of today's society is pro liberalism and Water down or are against anything that was current in society going back centuries.
I don't particularly care what religion someone is, as long as they don't intrude on my life and my own way of life.. It's unfortunate that this is exactly the case, especially here.. Where churches are being turned into mosques and our school children being made to pray in mosques on school trips. It wouldn't be an issue if other religions stayed where there is a massive base of followers, but yet they insist on legally invading the west demanding we abide by their ways, when clearly we are at threat. And they do not want to integrate either. Do they even allow Christianity in schools anymore?
We are being targeted, and are at threat of Islam & atheism in particular. We are breeding and converting at a much lower rate then them, it certainly is an issue and is sad.
 
@Sue D.

Our past was based upon the Christian faith. It was not based upon the muslims faith. It was not based upon buddhism. etc. etc.

You are missing the point. We are not talking about freedom of religion. If you want to allow the muslim his place in our country, or the buddhist his place in our country, then why are you worried about the Bible being taught in public schools. In trying to have the Bible taught in public schools, all you are doing is opening the door for islam and buddhism to be taught in our public schools.

You already have the freedom of religion. My point was that the only religion that should be allowed is the Christian faith. Because this country was founded upon the Christian faith. You have missed entirely what I said. This is where our country will hang you out to dry.

Quantrill


Actually I'm NOT missing your point at all. And it Does bother me a lot the impact that Islam , etc. is having on this country. And none of that should be taught in our public schools.

This country has Also been 'open' to most everyone -- open borders --illegal immigration has been taking it's toll and will continue to do so.
 
I don't know what country you are talking about, I'll assume America as their population always talks as if no other country exist haha..
I do believe the Christian faith is being excluded as it once never use to be., the rise of migration and illegals gave way to other religions that had not necessarily been of established communities in the past.
It's also unfortunate that Christianity seems to be watered down in schools & other industry's. The atheists seem to honour Islam yet don't want to give us Christians the time of day. The ideology of today's society is pro liberalism and Water down or are against anything that was current in society going back centuries.
I don't particularly care what religion someone is, as long as they don't intrude on my life and my own way of life.. It's unfortunate that this is exactly the case, especially here.. Where churches are being turned into mosques and our school children being made to pray in mosques on school trips. It wouldn't be an issue if other religions stayed where there is a massive base of followers, but yet they insist on legally invading the west demanding we abide by their ways, when clearly we are at threat. And they do not want to integrate either. Do they even allow Christianity in schools anymore?
We are being targeted, and are at threat of Islam & atheism in particular. We are breeding and converting at a much lower rate then them, it certainly is an issue and is sad.


I totally agree -- I've just been a bit hesitant to come out so directly about it. So I agree with what you've said.
 
Actually I'm NOT missing your point at all. And it Does bother me a lot the impact that Islam , etc. is having on this country. And none of that should be taught in our public schools.

This country has Also been 'open' to most everyone -- open borders --illegal immigration has been taking it's toll and will continue to do so.

I agree. But our government, if it passes a law that the Bible is to be taught in public schools, will not pass a law that the koran is not to be taught or any other religion. And when the anger and protests come from many directions, which they will, they will bow to them and allow the others to be taught as well.

This is why I said the government is not going to be willing to carry out this law and the ramifications that will follow. If I thought they would, I would be all for it. But they won't. And in essence the law will provide islam, buddhism, and any other ism to be taught also.

Quantrill
 
I don't know what country you are talking about, I'll assume America as their population always talks as if no other country exist haha..
I do believe the Christian faith is being excluded as it once never use to be., the rise of migration and illegals gave way to other religions that had not necessarily been of established communities in the past.
It's also unfortunate that Christianity seems to be watered down in schools & other industry's. The atheists seem to honour Islam yet don't want to give us Christians the time of day. The ideology of today's society is pro liberalism and Water down or are against anything that was current in society going back centuries.
I don't particularly care what religion someone is, as long as they don't intrude on my life and my own way of life.. It's unfortunate that this is exactly the case, especially here.. Where churches are being turned into mosques and our school children being made to pray in mosques on school trips. It wouldn't be an issue if other religions stayed where there is a massive base of followers, but yet they insist on legally invading the west demanding we abide by their ways, when clearly we are at threat. And they do not want to integrate either. Do they even allow Christianity in schools anymore?
We are being targeted, and are at threat of Islam & atheism in particular. We are breeding and converting at a much lower rate then them, it certainly is an issue and is sad.

Yes, I am speaking of the USA, mainly because it was the country in question. I agree with all you say. And in England yall have a worse problem with the muslims than we. I personally see no good answer for yall except war one day.

Quantrill
 
There have also been religious wars in various countries back in history. It's fighting for religious freedom / religious Rights.

The Muslims have vowed to take over this world one way or another. It's either 'their way' or Die. so -- are 'we' willing to die for Christ? After all He Did die for 'us'. And it's 'easy' to type this but how 'easy' will it be to take that stand when / if it's personally called for.

And it's So Easy for Forget that these people from various belief systems Do have a soul -- they are people. And isn't , at least Some of this, the result of Way back in the Old Testament when Sarah wanted a child so much that she did Not wait for God's Promised child -- but did allow / ask Abraham to follow a cultural practice -- offering him her handmaid in her place. So It's been Isaac vs Ishmael ever since. God's promise compared to our desires. And lots of times our desires are perfectly Okay desires. Just that we get impatient with God's timing.

And "we" also have a huge problem will the illegal population in this country.

This particular subject is Bible in the schools. Public schools. Believers Do have the option of taking their personal Bibles To school and reading in the hall ways or outside of the school building. In fact that very situation Did take place. A student Was reading his Bible in the hallway? was reprimanded for that. Don't remember what ever came of that.

There Needs to be civilized conversation about personal religious beliefs. Isn't that what believers are Supposed to be doing? Sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who are willing To Listen.
 
My view is that it is a good thought. Yet in our day it is fraught with risk. Who would be doing the teaching? What version of the Bible would be used? Would the teacher be born-again? Would the teacher be Protestant or Roman? Would the teacher teach that God is 'He' and not genderless?

I'm afraid that today our country is so far gone that trying to teach the Bible in public schools would be akin to casting your pearls before swine.

Quantrill

Thanks for sharing brother, let us pray for God to do only what God can do.

And as the body of Christ He often does it through us.
 
Very interesting and good points made by all. You do bring up a good point @Quantrill I must say about how the government
will likely respond with the inclusion of other religions. Yet @Sue D. you also bring up a valid point about Christians standing up
for God's WORD. Thanks as well for contributing @MrBornAgain and sharing a perspective of someone outside of the States.

This is what it seems like to me. So before we had nations and governments we had families and communities. Than you had tribal
councils and slowly over time people pulled their resources together (taxs) to establish governments which provided protection
and services that the individual could not. So armies we used to protect the people and roads were build, services that one individual
or family could not do. Later laws were put in place (though families and communities always had rules) to honor the values of the community.
As politics developed people saw different visions for their communities and ran on different platforms because they desired their
community to head in a different direction. As a result political parties formed, etc.

Countries ended up being set up based on the values of the people. In the Middle East they value the Koran and thus they have laws
in which the infidel is killed for teaching Jesus. In some places they value education and citizens have free education (college) whereas
in other nations, education outside of college is not valued as much and seems as something the individual should pursue. America
has been going through many changes the last century. As the population changes and the values change, the laws are changing also.

The idea of God in schools is not a bad concept at all, it just has to do with the society's values. Look at Jesus days, I'm assuming ( I don't know)
that when Jesus was a boy was in school, in his society they taught the Torah in school and the children learned it. Why? Because
that society valued it. In America however people get confused with the concept of separation of church and state. Obviously America
was founded on freedom from religious persecution, thus they made sure that they would be free to practice their religion and added
that freedom in the first Amendment. The idea was that the church could flourish unmolested by the state, evidenced by the establishment
and prohibit clause in the first Amendment. It states that, Government should make no law respecting any establishment of religion or prohibiting the
free expression thereof. Meaning that government was not to pick sides, and was to let the church be. This was to be a wall to keep the weeds
of politics out of the flower of the church so it could grow bring and beautiful, not walls like a prison cell to isolate the flower to solitary confinement
so it would die.

In America like in any other country it will end up being a matter of the values. I think Christians unfortunately feel bad about voting
for policies that promote their values (Traditional Marriage) because they feel that they are forcing their beliefs. You are not forcing
your beliefs you are just voting your values that you think will be best for society, just like those who want same sex marriage voted
for it and made it the law of the land. With that said, @Quantrill you do bring up an excellent point when you said,
"My point being when the people are Christian Bible classes are not needed in Public Schools. If you say that is why they
are needed, then it becomes an evangelistic effort...doesn't it? " Though I disagree that if they are Christian Bible are not needed
in schools, because the Christians may want the schools to reinforce what is being taught at home. However many parents are not
teaching it at home. But your comment does leave much to think about. I do think that the evangelistic effort may be best served reaching to the parents so
that they can teach their kids, and providing ministry (community programs, etc) in the community to reach the lost.
With that said, if the people of America value God they will put the Bible in school, however it seems that America
is straying from its roots, and the push for evangelism may be best channeled in a different direction since putting the Bible in schools
may cause more problems than solutions based on the current climate.
 
Thanks for sharing brother, let us pray for God to do only what God can do.

And as the body of Christ He often does it through us.

You're quite welcome. Yes, prayer is needed.

And sometimes, God is finished with a work. And the same can be true of nations. It is my opinion that the USA as a nation is on the way out. God has accomplished what He wanted with it, but now He is moving on and the U.S is not needed. In fact, the U.S. would be in the way. Of course all of this coincides with our apostasy in moving away from God. God never does just one thing. With every move He makes, there are many things accomplished.

I hate to see the Bible removed from our society; from our schools; the Ten commandments removed from our court houses; prayer removed also. But the reality is, they don't represent our society anymore. Our society really has no right to have these emblems of righteous behaviour. They do not represent them anymore. They represent pockets of people still in our country. But not the powers. The powers represent all that is against God.

In my opinion our prayers should involve surviving the inevitable demise of the U.S. For, as I have said before, somewhere, we are like the U.S.S. Thresher. We have lost our motoring ability and are descending to crush depth.

Quantrill
 
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