Dearest " lentz " You are so right in everything you say here, I am so thankful for Christians like yourself who stand up for truth and trust in God's word
when we read from the translation, many translations insert the idea that scriptures are saying that sinful angels have already been detained - in past history for having sexual relations with women and creating Giants
and all of the the translations do indeed insert the idea that scriptures are comparing the sin of lusting after strange flesh committed by Sodom and Gomorrah compared to the sin committed by the angels.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
If you look at the original Greek manuscripts in “ 2 Pe 2 : 4-5 “ -
there is a very different message from what the original message is saying
Translation says
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
The translations says, verse “ :4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, this translation places inflection on the passage as a past tense event - something that happened in the past but this is not in the original manuscripts
:4 here is the original Greek manuscripts
ει THAT - γαρ FOR - ο THE - θεος GOD - αγγελων ANGELS
- αμαρτησαντων WHO SINNED - ουκ NOT - εφεισατο ARE SPARED -
Αλλα BUT - σειραις CHAINED - ζοφου IN BLACKNESS - ταρταρωσας CAST DOWN TO HELL
- παρεδωκεν DELIVERED - εις TO - κρισιν THE JUDGMENT - τετηρημενους TO BE DETAINED.
Greek manuscripts -
meaning = :4 THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED.
saying - THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED, NOT ARE SPARED
this is very different than saying “ For if God spared not the angels that sinned,
the translation is rearranging and moving the words around - to place this as a past event
in the manuscripts - 2Pe 2:4 is not saying that God had previously placed any of the Angels in prison, this is not past tense,,
the manuscripts, say exactly - THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED.
2Pe 2:4 - is telling us what God has planned and reserved for the Angels, In the future. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A PAST EVENT.
BUT - When we get to verse : 5 - here below / in the following verse - Peter specifically denotes and distinguishes that there is a difference between THE ANCIENT WORLD BEFORE THE FLOOD - and the COMING FUTURE JUDGMENT TO BE SOMEDAY APPOINTED FOR THE ANGELS. And Peter specifies, making it very, very clear to mention - that the judgment reserved for the angels - is not a part of - the ancient world - before the flood event.
Look at what Peter says here in the next verse - :5 - from the Greek manuscripts
Και AND - αρχαιου THE ANCIENT - - κοσμου WORLD - ουκ NOT - εφεισατο ARE SPARED -
αλλ BUT - ογδοον EIGHT - νωε NOAH - δικαιοσυνης THE RIGHTEOUS -
κηρυκα PREACHING - εφυλαξεν HE KEPT - κατακλυσμον TO THE FLOODED - κοσμω WORLD -
ασεβων OF UNGODLY - επαξας TO COME.
meaning = AND THE ANCIENT WORLD NOT ARE SPARED BUT EIGHT, NOAH THE RIGHTEOUS PREACHING HE KEPT TO THE FLOODED WORLD OF UNGODLY TO COME.
Peter is explaining / telling of the judgment of the Angels that , the wicked, sinful Angels are – NOT TO BE SPARED and are to be punished. - THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED, NOT ARE SPARED
Then, Peter, next - GOES BACK IN TIME, by saying that OF “ THE ANCIENT WORLD - OF OLD “
- THE ANCIENT WORLD NOT WAS SPARED .
MAKING A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE FUTURE OF THE FALLEN ANGELS AND THE OLD ANCIENT WORLD OF THE PAST - before the flood. A clear distinction and difference between the OLD ANCIENT WORLD and the FUTURE day of judgment of the Angel’s judgments..
and the narrative continues. . . . . and the future judgment of the Angels, according to Peter - has nothing to do with - THE OLD ANCIENT WORLD - and Peter mentions that there is a difference…
We continue to see how the original manuscript describes
2Pe 2:6 - και AND - πολεις THE CITIES - σοδομων SODOOM - και AND -
γομορρας GOMORRHA - τεφρωσας TURNED INTO ASHES - καταστροφη A CATASTROPHE –
κατεκρινεν CONDEMNATION - υποδειγμα EXAMPLE - - μελλοντων TO COME TO -
ασεβειν THE UNGODLY - τεθεικως APPOINTED.
Greek manuscripts - meaning =
AND THE CITIES SODOM AND GOMORRHA TURNED INTO ASHES A CATASTROPHE CONDEMNATION EXAMPLE TO COME TO THE UNGODLY APPOINTED.
Let’s also look at the original manuscripts in Jud 1: 6 – 7
in Jud 1: 6 - 7 - - what we see, is a total and complete change from the ORIGINAL MESSAGE in what the translators have changed and altered –
here is exactly what the original manuscripts are clearly saying - Jud 1:6
:6
αγγελους THE ANGELS - τε ALSO - τους THAT - μη NEITHER - τηρησαντας KEPT -
την THIS - εαυτων THEIR - αρχην BEGINNINGS - - αλλα BUT - απολιποντας THEY LEFT –
το THEIR - ιδιον OWN - οικητηριον HABITATION - εις TO - κρισιν JUDGMENT -
μεγαλης A GREAT - ημερας DAY - δεσμοις BOUND - αιδιοις ETERNALLY - υπο UNDER –
ζοφον DARKNESS - τετηρηκεν KEPT.
MEANING =
Jud 1:6 THE ANGELS ALSO THAT NOT KEPT THIS THEIR BEGINNINGS BUT THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.
We see in the translation that the narrative that they add and insert into the passage is much different than the original manuscripts.
Meaning = THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY
Here, we notice that they have moved and shuffled the word - “ KEPT “ at the very ending of the verse - to insert the idea that God is currently KEEPING the Angels bound in chains. But the word “ KEPT “ is the very last word of the verse - the ending …….
And the passage says absolutely nothing about God keeping the Angels - It does not say
“ he hath reserved / “ KEPT “ in everlasting chains - this false narrative was added and inserted into the translation.
the manuscripts say - Jud 1:6 THE ANGELS ALSO THAT NOT KEPT THIS THEIR BEGINNINGS BUT THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.
The Translation says - Jud 1:6 And the angels which KEPT not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved / “ KEPT “ in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
We see AGAIN - the Translation, again changes what the manuscripts say here in verse - :7
- Jud 1:7
ως AS - σοδομα SODOM - και AND - - γομορρα GOMORRHA - και AND - αι THAT –
περι CONCERNING / ABOUT - αυτας THEIR - πολεις CITIES - τον THIS IS - ομοιον SIMMILAR –
τουτοις THEIR - τροπον MANNER - εκπορνευσασαι OUT OF FORNICATION - και AND –
απελθουσαι TURNED AWAY - οπισω AFTER - σαρκος FLESH - ετερας I S ANOTHER -
προκεινται SET FORWARD - δειγμα EXAMPLE - πυρος OF FIRE - αιωνιου ETERNAL -
δικην JUSTICE – υπεχουσαι UNDER HOLDING.
MEANING =
AS SODOM AND GOMORRHA AND THAT CONCERNING / ABOUT THEIR CITIES, THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER OUT OF FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH. IS ANOTHER SET FORWARD EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HOLDING.
The ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS - are very, very different from what we see in the translation
The Translation says - Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after STRANGE flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
the Greek manuscripts say nothing about - “ STRANGE flesh “
The manuscripts are in no way directly - comparing the downfall of the angels to the similar sins of SODOM AND GOMORRHA, but the translators are changing, adding and inserting their own narrative, to give the message that the angels had sinned after - “ STRANGE flesh “ - in fornication and sexual immorality,
just as Sodom and Gomorrah; - just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after STRANGE flesh,
- and they CHANGE the Greek word " ετερας " and insert the word " STRANGE "
The Greek word ετερας – means = " another or other " - they delete the word = ετερας - “ IS ANOTHER “ - and they insert and change the word to say ---
" they went after “ STRANGE flesh “ what they are doing here is deleting a word, changing it - - then inventing a - RUN ON SENTENCE, into the passage.
But the word " STRANGE " is nowhere in the passage. THIS IS TOTALLY UNTRUTHFUL
This Greek word - ετερας - = means “ IS ANOTHER “
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to ANOTHER tribe. - - ετερας " - Another
Mat 6:24 and Luk 16:13 A man serving two masters: will love one or despise THE OTHER..... - = ετερας - OTHER
Mat 8:21 ANOTHER - ετερας - disciples said unto him.
Mat 11:3 Are you the one or - do we look for " ANOTHER - ετερας "
Mat 15:30 Yahoshua healed – many " OTHERS - ετερας"
Mat 16:14 Are you John the Baptist: or - " ANOTHER - ετερας "
Mar 16:12 Yahoshua appeared in " ANOTHER - ετερας " form / morph.
Luk 3:18 John preached many OTHER - ετερας THINGS.
Luk 4:43 I must Preach to " OTHER - ετερας " cities.
Luk 5:7 The were in the " OTHERS - ετερας" ship.
Luk 6:6 Upon " ANOTHER - ετερας " Sabbath
Luk 8:3 and many " OTHERS - ετερας "
Luk 9:56 They went to " ANOTHER - ετερας " village.
Luk 9:59 He said unto ANOTHER. - Luk 9:61 And ANOTHER ετερας also said.
Luk 10:1 The Lord appointed OTHERS ετερας - Luk 11:16 He was tempted by OTHERS ετερας
Luk 11:26 Seven OTHER ετερας spirits. -
Luk 14: 19 + 20 and Luk 16:7 - He said to ANOTHER. ετερας
Luk 14:31 War against ANOTHER ετερας king.
Luk 16:18 Whoever puts away a wife, and marries ANOTHER. ετερας
Luk 17:35 Two women - one taken, and the OTHER ετερας left behind.
Luk 17:36 Two men - one taken, and the OTHER ετερας left behind.
Luk 18:10 The OTHER ετερας was a publican.
Luk 19:20 And ANOTHER ετερας came.
Luk 20:11 He sent ANOTHER ετερας servant:
Luk 22:65 Many OTHER ετερας things
Luk 23:32 Also two OTHERS ετερας
Luk 23:40 The OTHERS ετερας answered.
In fact, this Greek word never changes anywhere in its meaning – this goes on through the entire bible. The Greek word = ετερας - OTHER - appears in the manuscripts - a total of " 99 " times.
And out of the TOTAL " 99 " total times - the translators every SINGLE LAST TIME without a single exception - they translate this same exact word, every time, to say " ANOTHER "
BUT EXCEPT FOR - IN ONE SINGLE VERSE, here in - Jude 1:7 the translators change this into “ STRANGE “ flesh “ changing the Greek word " ANOTHER " into the word “: strange :”
ONE SINGLE TIME, IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE TRANSLATION - they delete the word " Another " and they change and alter it to say " STRANGE " inserting / adding in - the word " strange " But the passage had just ended the sentence – STATING exactly - AS THESE CITIES, THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER OUT OF FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH ....
That's it - end of the manuscript narrative - then the passage moves on to next say .....
ετερας IS ANOTHER - προκεινται SET BEFORE - δειγμα EXAMPLE - πυρος OF FIRE - αιωνιου ETERNAL - δικην JUSTICE - υπεχουσαι UNDER HOLDING.
The Translators are changing and altering the passage - and we can see exactly what they have done
But the original message simply says SODOM AND GOMORRHA AND THAT CONCERNING / ABOUT THEIR CITIES THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER FROM FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH IS ANOTHER SET BEFORE EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HELD.
Saying that the sin of both of these cities of is a similar or the same sin - of immorality.
ABOUT THEIR CITIES THIS IS SIMILAR THEIR MANNER FROM FORNICATION AND TURNING AWAY AFTER THE FLESH IS ANOTHER SET BEFORE EXAMPLE OF FIRE ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HELD.
The manuscripts are comparing the judgment to come of sinful angels who will face a judgment in the future
to the judgment of the past flood and also the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, saying that this same judgment is coming to the world and to the sinful angels in the future
the angels will face judgment TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.
Jude 1::6 THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.
Jud 1:7 As Sodom and Gomorrha and that concerning / about their cities, this is similar their manner out of fornication and turning away after the flesh, IS ANOTHER SET FORWARD EXAMPLE OF FIRE, ETERNAL JUSTICE UNDER HOLDING.
2 Pe 2 : 4 ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED.
:5 AND THE ANCIENT WORLD NOT ARE SPARED BUT EIGHT, NOAH THE RIGHTEOUS PREACHING HE KEPT TO THE FLOODED WORLD OF UNGODLY TO COME.
The point is that just rearranging and moving the words around and manipulating the original message of the manuscript can completely alter and change our entire perspective , just switching 3 or 4 words around and moving and rearranging the sentence can create a alternative narrative that is not what the original says. This is why there is a total contradiction, If God had judged and detained the angels before the flood - how is it that Satan and His angles were not part of that detainment ?
it's just a matter of changing words around, flipping words, rearranging the sentence structures, changing the meanings of words and completely altering the original message to insert a pre - conceived narrative that completely contradicts the entire narrative of the rest of the scripturas - the comparison is being made of the future judgment of the angels and future judgment mankind in the future - - this is being compared to the judgment of the flood and of Sodom and Gomorrah
1. the translators manipulate the sentence structure to pretend that the Angels Judgment was past tense
2. the translators manipulate the sentence structure to hint and portray - that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was the similar sin of the Angels.
that is not what the original says.
