Two questions, please answer.

[JustSomeone]

I've always been a christian and a catholic. As a teenager I had my fair share of sins (who didn't) but I was always trying to live according to my conscience and the word of God. These sins were mostly about bad habits and addictions than my bad will. The years went by, I was praying, going to church (and to the confession) and I was tangled up in two addictions/bad habits (I don't really know which one) that were really tought to quit. It all started innocently but the more it progressed the more I started to see how destructive they were. At first I didn't even realize they were sins I guess. But then I just couldn't quit. I tried, but it was only getting worse.

Then, a few months ago, weird things started happening. During masses - tears were starting to well up in my eyes. I was really taken aback by it and I didn't know what it meant. Then I had this funeral of a person I didn't even know. I just went because someone asked me to and I heard this beautiful sermon - the best one I've ever heard in my life. After that I started praying more and somehow I quit those two addictions I was talking about. I knew it was God's part in this because I would never do that by myself. It's out of the question. I was too weak too quit by myself.

After that, the strangest happened. For about a month or so I was a changed man. First of all, I wasn't nervous at all. And you should know that I was always very nervous - my whole life. I could snap at anyone for almost no reason at all. It was gone. I was meek as a sheep. Nothing could make me lose my temper. I felt love for everyone and I wanted to talk about God and God only. I wanted to be His witness and tell everyone how magnificent He is. I felt love for everyone that did me wrong and I wanted to forgive everyone just like that. I lost a fear of death. I was looking at it as a "homecoming" and I was actually looking forward to it (I dind't want to die though, it wasn't like that). I also started to detest and hate sin. I always avoided it but then I started to detest and hate it. I was a changed man and there was no question about it. Everyone noticed that - my parents, friends and so on. And it happened in a few days. I couldn't change for my whole life and then I just changed like that. I also have to tell you - it was, without a question, the best month of my life. I felt only love for everyone and no fear of anything. It was so amazing I can't even describe in 10% of how great it was...

And the second thing happened. Actually it started happening before the things I described above but now I'll write more about it. I started to shed tears in church during mass or when reading Bible verses (mostly when I read Jesus' words). Also, when reading the Passion of Christ in church a few months ago I just couldn't stop the tears. Sometimes before receiving the communion or even when I listen to christian music. And you should know that the last time I cried was when I was 14 or so (I'm 22, almost 23 now). Also, when I was thinking what God did for all of us - humans. I also started shedding tears when I though of how many people deliberately want to go to Hell I wanted to stop everyone from going the wrong way. Also, it wasn't regular cry. There was no weeping or sobbing. Tears were just flowing out of my eyes. I also always shed them when I reminded myself of how unworthy of God I am. Of what He did for me. Or how much I sinned before. I could go on and on about it...
I also remember lately I was standing in the line to the confessional and tears started to flow because I realized how much I offended God with my sins... I just can't describe with words how sorry I am...

Now I have two questions I hope you can answer me, please.

1) Can you tell me or do you have any idea what happened in that month I described? I read some stuff on the Internet and I came to a conclusion that I could be "born again". Is that it?

2) Can you tell me what is it with those tears? I read something on the Internet about "gift of tears" but it mostly happened to saints or some very religious people and that's why I can't acknowledge that God would grant me this great gift. I feel like I'm a huge, huge sinner even though my sins were mostly done from teenager stupidity or they were bad habit/addictions that I couldn't get out of. What do you think of those tears?

 

[RJ]

I've always been a christian and a catholic. As a teenager I had my fair share of sins (who didn't) but I was always trying to live according to my conscience and the word of God. These sins were mostly about bad habits and addictions than my bad will. The years went by, I was praying, going to church (and to the confession) and I was tangled up in two addictions/bad habits (I don't really know which one) that were really tought to quit. It all started innocently but the more it progressed the more I started to see how destructive they were. At first I didn't even realize they were sins I guess. But then I just couldn't quit. I tried, but it was only getting worse.

Then, a few months ago, weird things started happening. During masses - tears were starting to well up in my eyes. I was really taken aback by it and I didn't know what it meant. Then I had this funeral of a person I didn't even know. I just went because someone asked me to and I heard this beautiful sermon - the best one I've ever heard in my life. After that I started praying more and somehow I quit those two addictions I was talking about. I knew it was God's part in this because I would never do that by myself. It's out of the question. I was too weak too quit by myself.

After that, the strangest happened. For about a month or so I was a changed man. First of all, I wasn't nervous at all. And you should know that I was always very nervous - my whole life. I could snap at anyone for almost no reason at all. It was gone. I was meek as a sheep. Nothing could make me lose my temper. I felt love for everyone and I wanted to talk about God and God only. I wanted to be His witness and tell everyone how magnificent He is. I felt love for everyone that did me wrong and I wanted to forgive everyone just like that. I lost a fear of death. I was looking at it as a "homecoming" and I was actually looking forward to it (I dind't want to die though, it wasn't like that). I also started to detest and hate sin. I always avoided it but then I started to detest and hate it. I was a changed man and there was no question about it. Everyone noticed that - my parents, friends and so on. And it happened in a few days. I couldn't change for my whole life and then I just changed like that. I also have to tell you - it was, without a question, the best month of my life. I felt only love for everyone and no fear of anything. It was so amazing I can't even describe in 10% of how great it was...

And the second thing happened. Actually it started happening before the things I described above but now I'll write more about it. I started to shed tears in church during mass or when reading Bible verses (mostly when I read Jesus' words). Also, when reading the Passion of Christ in church a few months ago I just couldn't stop the tears. Sometimes before receiving the communion or even when I listen to christian music. And you should know that the last time I cried was when I was 14 or so (I'm 22, almost 23 now). Also, when I was thinking what God did for all of us - humans. I also started shedding tears when I though of how many people deliberately want to go to Hell I wanted to stop everyone from going the wrong way. Also, it wasn't regular cry. There was no weeping or sobbing. Tears were just flowing out of my eyes. I also always shed them when I reminded myself of how unworthy of God I am. Of what He did for me. Or how much I sinned before. I could go on and on about it...
I also remember lately I was standing in the line to the confessional and tears started to flow because I realized how much I offended God with my sins... I just can't describe with words how sorry I am...

Now I have two questions I hope you can answer me, please.

1) Can you tell me or do you have any idea what happened in that month I described? I read some stuff on the Internet and I came to a conclusion that I could be "born again". Is that it?

2) Can you tell me what is it with those tears? I read something on the Internet about "gift of tears" but it mostly happened to saints or some very religious people and that's why I can't acknowledge that God would grant me this great gift. I feel like I'm a huge, huge sinner even though my sins were mostly done from teenager stupidity or they were bad habit/addictions that I couldn't get out of. What do you think of those tears?

1)
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

This is the second verse to the famous hymn "Amazing Grace". In this verse you can see what probably happened to you. I know there are always different circumsatnces but, I feel that one should be able to recall the moment that they were "Born Again" and of course that is when you recieved God's Spirit and are saved.

Go to Romans 13: 8-13....this should be something similar to what you did on that memorable day.

This was all made possible by the moment that Jesus died on the cross and was predicted by Jeremiah some 750 years before it happened.
Jeremiah 31:34

<SUP id=en-NIV-19726 class=versenum>4</SUP> No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

Also look at 2 Corinthians 5:17
This is another example of what happened to you...The old was gone and the new had come...you had a significant change in heart about God.

2)

The tears are not uncommon and don't forget God calls you a Saint.
I was born again at the age of 54 and I cried off and on for the longest...I do sometimes still. These are tears of joy and not sadness.
Some have been and are uncomfortable with my tears but I don't think that they understand fully!

Rejoice in your new found self. When you mess up, pick yourself up, work on allowing the Lord help you in correcting that sin and thank God for what Jesus did on the cross for that sin. Move on and work on allowing Christ to bear his fruits thorough you.

John 15:5
<SUP id=en-NIV-26705 class=versenum>5</SUP> “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. <SUP id=en-NIV-26706 class=versenum>6</SUP>

 

[Brighthouse]

Hi JUSTSOMEONE Please look at Luke 15:1-10 In answer to question one. I to had this problem,I was 22 at the time Jesus found me. After many weeks I to would have tears for no reason,reading a simple Bible verse!! tears would flow??

Hearing someone sing of Jesus and his love,what?? tears? I asked my Pastor about this problem!! Because to me,it was a problem!!I never cry! What I believe is happening to you, is what happened to me. a Baptism of LOVE is filling deep within you!( John 8:38)

This flow of living waters is filling you so deeply that it is coming even out of you.Now what I am about to tell you,may surprise you,depending on how long you have been a believer,because in the Catholic Church,although there are many who do speak in tongues, it is not a teaching they give,I know this because many of my good friends happen to be Catholic,I was Luthern myself,and they sure did not teach on this either!

I am a firm believer of Studing the Word for oneself ( 2 Tim 2:15) I never heard of this myself?? So I did not believe people when they said,there is such a happening.Please read the book of Acts,then pray,and you decide for yourself,is there is much more to Jesus,then what you think you know.

This can be a very sore subject to many.many believe tongues is not for today,many believe the miracles have God has ceased.BUT YOU!!! KNOW!!! God is doing a special work in you!! Does not matter what others say,unless they line up with what our Jesus says!!

My favorite line,show me chapter and verse!I WILL!! There is no gift of tears,the gift is what you have within you my brother.Holy Spirit wants to not remain silent in you,he wants to be fully alive within you!Here see for yourself!! ( 1 Cor 14:2)no need for anyone to explain what is clear to me and you from the Bible itself! From the LIVING Word!

The purpose of this is to make you a better believer then you already are presently.I call this not tongues!! I call this The Baptism of LOVE!! The very promise Jesus made to us in Acts 2:4 is given to us in Acts 2:37-39! But please!! Read for yourself. If you believe this Baptism is indeed from our Jesus which I can tell you it is.Then why on earth would one not want to become closer to our Jesus? Question 2. LOVE is the more excellent way!!

The gifts are very well explained to us in 1 Cor 12 Please read this,then!! in verse 31 notice something!! And I shall show you a more excellent way!! LOVE!!Please read 1 Cor 13 as soon as this is spoken notice where we go back to!! 1 Cor 14 Pursue love,YET!! desire earnestly spiritual gifts! because my brother in Christ LOVE!! GIVES GIFTS!! Not just for us!! But for others as well!

What good is a part of the Body of Christ that is not active? Holy Spirit in you want to become active!! And for this reason.( 2 cor 5:17-19) Your ministry, and yes you do have one, we all do!! Even me the very least of the brethern in Christ has this gift!! To become,and make others reconciled to our GOD! To become accountable!

Jesus is not once a week my brother,this you already are learning. I do not tell you to change churches!! I tell you to look in the Word for yourself! God can sure use you in the Church you are now at! And!! he may very well want to!

I have given you much to consider,I do not want to blow your mind to much. hehe

My pastor told me this in closing to explain some tears. You are a young child perhaps 8 or 9 you have been ever so lost in the woods for so long!! Just as you have cried so much being so lost,suddenly from a clearing, you see your father,he smiles and waves to you as he runs towards you.Now your tears are made from great JOY!! This joy is what those tears are coming from.They are the start of tearing down our walls,and letting our Jesus build himself in LOVE in us!

I hope this has helped you brother.If you wish, you sure may give me a Pm anytime, I will always answer you. Jesus has choose you my brother.( john 15:16) He has appointed you, not to hide your good fruit,but rather bear more of it! Do so,to HIS Glory!! Blessing to you.

 

[JustSomeone]

1)
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

This is the second verse to the famous hymn "Amazing Grace". In this verse you can see what probably happened to you. I know there are always different circumsatnces but, I feel that one should be able to recall the moment that they were "Born Again" and of course that is when you recieved God's Spirit and are saved.

Go to Romans 13: 8-13....this should be something similar to what you did on that memorable day.

This was all made possible by the moment that Jesus died on the cross and was predicted by Jeremiah some 750 years before it happened.
Jeremiah 31:34

<sup id="en-NIV-19726" class="versenum">4</sup> No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

Also look at 2 Corinthians 5:17
This is another example of what happened to you...The old was gone and the new had come...you had a significant change in heart about God.

2)

The tears are not uncommon and don't forget God calls you a Saint.
I was born again at the age of 54 and I cried off and on for the longest...I do sometimes still. These are tears of joy and not sadness.
Some have been and are uncomfortable with my tears but I don't think that they understand fully!

Rejoice in your new found self. When you mess up, pick yourself up, work on allowing the Lord help you in correcting that sin and thank God for what Jesus did on the cross for that sin. Move on and work on allowing Christ to bear his fruits thorough you.

John 15:5
<sup id="en-NIV-26705" class="versenum">5</sup> “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. <sup id="en-NIV-26706" class="versenum">6</sup>

Hey, thanks for the answer! I really appreciate it!
However, I have to disagree with one thing. You wrote "I know there are always different circumsatnces but, I feel that one should be able to recall the moment that they were "Born Again" and of course that is when you recieved God's Spirit and are saved."
Like I previously wrote, I had my ups and downs but I've always been a christian so I guess I had God's spirit all along and I was saved the minute I accepted Jesus to my heart and believed in Him with full awareness. My point is, I think it's not necessary to be "born again" in order to be saved. Jesus said that it only takes belief in Him and rejection of sin to be saved and I believe that. Here: "But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. - Romans 10:8-10. I can find many more quotes from the Bible that say this.

Hi JUSTSOMEONE Please look at Luke 15:1-10 In answer to question one. I to had this problem,I was 22 at the time Jesus found me. After many weeks I to would have tears for no reason,reading a simple Bible verse!! tears would flow??

Hearing someone sing of Jesus and his love,what?? tears? I asked my Pastor about this problem!! Because to me,it was a problem!!I never cry! What I believe is happening to you, is what happened to me. a Baptism of LOVE is filling deep within you!( John 8:38)

This flow of living waters is filling you so deeply that it is coming even out of you.Now what I am about to tell you,may surprise you,depending on how long you have been a believer,because in the Catholic Church,although there are many who do speak in tongues, it is not a teaching they give,I know this because many of my good friends happen to be Catholic,I was Luthern myself,and they sure did not teach on this either!

I am a firm believer of Studing the Word for oneself ( 2 Tim 2:15) I never heard of this myself?? So I did not believe people when they said,there is such a happening.Please read the book of Acts,then pray,and you decide for yourself,is there is much more to Jesus,then what you think you know.

This can be a very sore subject to many.many believe tongues is not for today,many believe the miracles have God has ceased.BUT YOU!!! KNOW!!! God is doing a special work in you!! Does not matter what others say,unless they line up with what our Jesus says!!

My favorite line,show me chapter and verse!I WILL!! There is no gift of tears,the gift is what you have within you my brother.Holy Spirit wants to not remain silent in you,he wants to be fully alive within you!Here see for yourself!! ( 1 Cor 14:2)no need for anyone to explain what is clear to me and you from the Bible itself! From the LIVING Word!

The purpose of this is to make you a better believer then you already are presently.I call this not tongues!! I call this The Baptism of LOVE!! The very promise Jesus made to us in Acts 2:4 is given to us in Acts 2:37-39! But please!! Read for yourself. If you believe this Baptism is indeed from our Jesus which I can tell you it is.Then why on earth would one not want to become closer to our Jesus? Question 2. LOVE is the more excellent way!!

The gifts are very well explained to us in 1 Cor 12 Please read this,then!! in verse 31 notice something!! And I shall show you a more excellent way!! LOVE!!Please read 1 Cor 13 as soon as this is spoken notice where we go back to!! 1 Cor 14 Pursue love,YET!! desire earnestly spiritual gifts! because my brother in Christ LOVE!! GIVES GIFTS!! Not just for us!! But for others as well!

What good is a part of the Body of Christ that is not active? Holy Spirit in you want to become active!! And for this reason.( 2 cor 5:17-19) Your ministry, and yes you do have one, we all do!! Even me the very least of the brethern in Christ has this gift!! To become,and make others reconciled to our GOD! To become accountable!

Jesus is not once a week my brother,this you already are learning. I do not tell you to change churches!! I tell you to look in the Word for yourself! God can sure use you in the Church you are now at! And!! he may very well want to!

I have given you much to consider,I do not want to blow your mind to much. hehe

My pastor told me this in closing to explain some tears. You are a young child perhaps 8 or 9 you have been ever so lost in the woods for so long!! Just as you have cried so much being so lost,suddenly from a clearing, you see your father,he smiles and waves to you as he runs towards you.Now your tears are made from great JOY!! This joy is what those tears are coming from.They are the start of tearing down our walls,and letting our Jesus build himself in LOVE in us!

I hope this has helped you brother.If you wish, you sure may give me a Pm anytime, I will always answer you. Jesus has choose you my brother.( john 15:16) He has appointed you, not to hide your good fruit,but rather bear more of it! Do so,to HIS Glory!! Blessing to you.

Hey, thank you for the response. But I'm not sure I know what you're getting at. You want me to speak in tongues, right? Well, I don't want to force anything, you see. I'm grateful to God for what I have already and if he wants to grant me anything else - He will.

 

[Brighthouse]

The only point I wish to make, is just stay open to all that the Lord has in store for his people.

 

[JustSomeone]

The only point I wish to make, is just stay open to all that the Lord has in store for his people.

Of course I will!

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

You are experiencing real life through the grace and the Glory of God.Being born again or saved does not necessarily produce a feeling.
What your experiencing is not a feeling either,it is grace.You've heard about it before but did you really know what it was?

I know what grace is,it's what you attempted to describe but you can only put about 10% into words.I have gone in and out of that grace many times,the sad part is when your not experiencing it,you can't even remember what it was.I realize when I have lost it because fear and anxiety comes hard and fast.I have learned you can always get it back though if you know what it is.

Stay saturated in the word,the ones you understand not controversial subjects.The words of Jesus are Spirit and they are life.

 

[JustSomeone]

You are experiencing real life through the grace and the Glory of God.Being born again or saved does not necessarily produce a feeling.
What your experiencing is not a feeling either,it is grace.You've heard about it before but did you really know what it was?

I know what grace is,it's what you attempted to describe but you can only put about 10% into words.I have gone in and out of that grace many times,the sad part is when your not experiencing it,you can't even remember what it was.I realize when I have lost it because fear and anxiety comes hard and fast.I have learned you can always get it back though if you know what it is.

Stay saturated in the word,the ones you understand not controversial subjects.The words of Jesus are Spirit and they are life.

Thank you for the answer. I especially want to relate to the thing you said about anxiety and fear. Generally, for the last few years in my life, I've been a slave to fear. I suffer from anxiety disorder, OCD (all different versions, actually most of them), panic attacks and even depression sometimes. And when they all mix together (even when having one of them) it's really hard to trust anyone, even God. I mean, I trust God but this trust is not as deep as I know it should be. The time I described was when I was truly freed from all this. It was unexplainable. It was great. And I know it's all about trust. I know I can develop this trust but it's really hard. Back then it just came naturally. Maybe God gave it to me for some period of time and now He wants me to make an effort? To deepen my faith? I don't know what to think about it to be honest.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Back then it just came naturally. Maybe God gave it to me for some period of time and now He wants me to make an effort? To deepen my faith? I don't know what to think about it to be honest.

How can you seek that which you don't know exists.Why it came to you in the way it did is uncertain and I would chalk it up to the grace of God.
It does exist that's the important thing.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

This peace is part of his grace package and there is much more.
I have heard of people experiencing that peace without doing anything to get it.

It didn't work that way for me though,I never experienced it until my 3rd year of prayer and word study(I found Christ at 29 years old) and I was not at all slack in those things.It lasted 6-7 years though but I was eventually drawn away by the cares of this world and trying to stay in control of everything.Those cares turn into fear and the fear brings anxiety and the feeling that God has something horrible in store for me.At that point I am even scared to pray for his will because I think he hates me.
Then I remember:
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

I now preach Gods word to fear.It's not my fear it is a spirit and I can tell it to take a hike.If it doesn't leave I preach verses like 2 Timothy 1:7 to it until it dries up.

What is mine is the peace of God.If it's missing then there is a thief in my house(mind). Then I might have to preach to the thief and use stuff like:
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I pray that you and the entire body of Christ which is his bride walk in that abundance.

 

[JustSomeone]

How can you seek that which you don't know exists.Why it came to you in the way it did is uncertain and I would chalk it up to the grace of God.
It does exist that's the important thing.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

This peace is part of his grace package and there is much more.
I have heard of people experiencing that peace without doing anything to get it.

It didn't work that way for me though,I never experienced it until my 3rd year of prayer and word study(I found Christ at 29 years old) and I was not at all slack in those things.It lasted 6-7 years though but I was eventually drawn away by the cares of this world and trying to stay in control of everything.Those cares turn into fear and the fear brings anxiety and the feeling that God has something horrible in store for me.At that point I am even scared to pray for his will because I think he hates me.
Then I remember:
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

I now preach Gods word to fear.It's not my fear it is a spirit and I can tell it to take a hike.If it doesn't leave I preach verses like 2 Timothy 1:7 to it until it dries up.

What is mine is the peace of God.If it's missing then there is a thief in my house(mind). Then I might have to preach to the thief and use stuff like:
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I pray that you and the entire body of Christ which is his bride walk in that abundance.

Hey, I understand what do you mean. Thank you for the answer!

 

[RJ]

Hey, thanks for the answer! I really appreciate it!
However, I have to disagree with one thing. You wrote "I know there are always different circumsatnces but, I feel that one should be able to recall the moment that they were "Born Again" and of course that is when you recieved God's Spirit and are saved."
Like I previously wrote, I had my ups and downs but I've always been a christian so I guess I had God's spirit all along and I was saved the minute I accepted Jesus to my heart and believed in Him with full awareness. My point is, I think it's not necessary to be "born again" in order to be saved. Jesus said that it only takes belief in Him and rejection of sin to be saved and I believe that. Here: "But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. - Romans 10:8-10. I can find many more quotes from the Bible that say this.



Hey, thank you for the response. But I'm not sure I know what you're getting at. You want me to speak in tongues, right? Well, I don't want to force anything, you see. I'm grateful to God for what I have already and if he wants to grant me anything else - He will.

You said:
My point is, I think it's not necessary to be "born again" in order to be saved.

I would be cautious about your above statement. I would read below what Jesus himself said about "being born again" and perhaps reconsider this thought:

John 3: 3-7
<SUP>3</SUP> Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.<SUP class=footnote value='[a]'>[a]</SUP>”

<SUP id=en-NIV-26125 class=versenum>4</SUP> “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” <SUP id=en-NIV-26126 class=versenum>5</SUP> Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. <SUP id=en-NIV-26127 class=versenum>6</SUP> Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit<SUP class=footnote value='[b]'>[b]</SUP> gives birth to spirit. <SUP id=en-NIV-26128 class=versenum>7</SUP> You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You<SUP class=footnote value='[c]'>[c]</SUP> must be born again.’ <SUP id=en-NIV-26129 class=versenum></SUP>

 

[JustSomeone]

You said:
My point is, I think it's not necessary to be "born again" in order to be saved.

I would be cautious about your above statement. I would read below what Jesus himself said about "being born again" and perhaps reconsider this thought:

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spiritgives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

Yes, but now we have to understand what does it mean to be "born again". Is it a moment in which we accept Jesus and choose to believe? Or is it this what I wrote before, those great feelings? I read many times that feelings can be deceiving and we may even feel we're not saved but if we believe then we are saved. It's all about faith. And what if a person dies before he/she is born again but he/she was a believer? I am sure that this person would be saved. God doesn't want anyone to perish, especially people who believe in Him. Besides, Jesus said once about being born again (what you quoted) but He said many times that whoever will believe in Him will be saved and will live forever.

And what about the thief hanging on the cross right next to Jesus? He just admitted to sin and asked Jesus to save him = he believed that Jesus was the messiah. Do you think he was born again in this moment? Like all those great feelings flooded him? I really doubt that. I think he just believed and felt sorry and regret for his sins. And he was saved.

 

[RJ]

Yes, but now we have to understand what does it mean to be "born again". Is it a moment in which we accept Jesus and choose to believe? Or is it this what I wrote before, those great feelings? I read many times that feelings can be deceiving and we may even feel we're not saved but if we believe then we are saved. It's all about faith. And what if a person dies before he/she is born again but he/she was a believer? I am sure that this person would be saved. God doesn't want anyone to perish, especially people who believe in Him. Besides, Jesus said once about being born again (what you quoted) but He said many times that whoever will believe in Him will be saved and will live forever.

And what about the thief hanging on the cross right next to Jesus? He just admitted to sin and asked Jesus to save him = he believed that Jesus was the messiah. Do you think he was born again in this moment? Like all those great feelings flooded him? I really doubt that. I think he just believed and felt sorry and regret for his sins. And he was saved.

You can not deny what Jesus said: " You must be born again"; there is no getting around that.

Take 2 people, one is born again and saved and the other is not born again and not saved.

A basic difference is the saved person has God living in them and the unsaved person does not.

The Bible is clear, that if you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and that God raised him from the dead to give you spiritual life, then you are saved.

If you believe this, then you are born again according to scripture and the following is one of those scriptures:
1 John 5:1-5

Faith in the Incarnate Son of God

<SUP id=en-NIV-30626 class=versenum>1</SUP> Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. <SUP id=en-NIV-30627 class=versenum>2</SUP> This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. <SUP id=en-NIV-30628 class=versenum>3</SUP> In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, <SUP id=en-NIV-30629 class=versenum>4</SUP> for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. <SUP id=en-NIV-30630 class=versenum>5</SUP> Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

The Bible talks about a mystery that was unknown to man until the New Covenant and that mystery was God in us!

You my friend are a "Born Again" Christian!

God Bless

 

[JustSomeone]

You can not deny what Jesus said: " You must be born again"; there is no getting around that.

Take 2 people, one is born again and saved and the other is not born again and not saved.

A basic difference is the saved person has God living in them and the unsaved person does not.

The Bible is clear, that if you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and that God raised him from the dead to give you spiritual life, then you are saved.

If you believe this, then you are born again according to scripture and the following is one of those scriptures:
1 John 5:1-5

Faith in the Incarnate Son of God

<sup id="en-NIV-30626" class="versenum">1</sup> Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. <sup id="en-NIV-30627" class="versenum">2</sup> This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. <sup id="en-NIV-30628" class="versenum">3</sup> In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, <sup id="en-NIV-30629" class="versenum">4</sup> for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. <sup id="en-NIV-30630" class="versenum">5</sup> Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

The Bible talks about a mystery that was unknown to man until the New Covenant and that mystery was God in us!

You my friend are a "Born Again" Christian!

God Bless

You are right. So like you said, basically everyone who will believe that Jesus is the Lord and so on - he/she wil be saved because the moment he/she believes - he/she is born again.

Also, I wasn't really talking about myself. I'm just concerned about others...

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Consider this:

Eph. 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this
world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

You were already dead,when you first believed you came alive.

Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
Col 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus.

Hath raised means already happened,if you could lose this new life on and off you would experience multiple deaths.According to Col 2 :!2 your already resurrected from the dead into life.

As far as I can tell you were born again 2000 years ago.
There is no time in Spirit so I guess it's just a quantum thing.
What would happen if we dared to believe the word of God?

 

[JustSomeone]

Consider this:

Eph. 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this
world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

You were already dead,when you first believed you came alive.

Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
Col 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus.

Hath raised means already happened,if you could lose this new life on and off you would experience multiple deaths.According to Col 2 :!2 your already resurrected from the dead into life.

As far as I can tell you were born again 2000 years ago.
There is no time in Spirit so I guess it's just a quantum thing.
What would happen if we dared to believe the word of God?

Nice observation.
But what do you mean by that last sentence? I mean, we do believe the word of God...

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Well if I believe the Bible I have to believe:

I am the salt of the earth. Mat5:13

I am the light of the world in & through Christ Jesus. Mat:14

I am a child of God. John 1:12

I am a part of the True Vine and Christ’s life flows through me John 15:1,5

I am Christ’s friend. John 15:15

I have been chosen by Jesus to bear much fruit. John 15:16

I am Jesus’ personal witness sent out to tell everybody about Him. Acts 1:8

I am a slave to God, making me holy and giving me eternal life. Rom 6:18

I am a child of God. I can call Him my Father, Daddy. Rom 8:14, 15

I am an heir with Christ, inheriting His glory. Rom 8:17

I am a dwelling place for God. His Spirit and Life live in me. I Cor 3:16

I am forever joined in God and am one spirit with Him. I Cor 6:17

I am a new person in Christ Jesus. My past is forgiven and everything is new. 2 Cor 5:17

I am at peace with God and he has given me the work of helping others find peace with Him. 2 Cor 5:18, 19

I am a child of God and one with others who are members of His Family. Gal 3:26, 27

I am a child of God and will receive the inheritance which he promised. Gal 4:6, 7

I am a saint, a holy person. Col 1:2

I am a citizen of Heaven; seated in Heaven right now with Jesus. Eph 2:6

I am God’s building project, His handiwork, created in Christ to do His work. Eph 2:10

I am a prisoner of Christ so that I can help others. Eph 3:1, 4:1

I am righteous and holy Eph 4:24

I am hidden with Christ in God. Col 3:3

I am the expression of the life of Christ because He is my life Col 3:4

I am chosen of God to be holy and dearly loved. Col 3:12

I am a child of The Light and not of the darkness. 1 Thes 5:5

I am chosen to share in God’s Heavenly calling. Heb 3:1

I am part of Christ; I share in His Life. Heb 3:14

I am one of God’s Living Stones, being built-up in Christ as a house for God. 1 Pet 2:5

I am a member of the chosen people, a royal priesthood, a people belonging to God. 1 Pet 2:9, 10

I am only a visitor to this world in which I temporarily live 1 Pet 2:11

I am an enemy of the devil. 1 Pet 5:8

I am a child of God, and I will be Christ’s when He returns. 1 John 3:1, 2

I am born again in Christ and the devil will never defeat me. 1 John 5:18

I am not the great “I AM” (Ex 3:14) but by the Grace of God, I am what I am. 1 Cor 15:10


SINCE I AM IN CHRIST, by the GRACE OF GOD:

I am now acceptable to God and completely forgiven. I live at peace with Him Rom 5:1

The sinful person I used to be died with Christ, and sin no longer rules my life. Rom 6:1-6

I am free from the punishment my sin deserves. Rom 8:1

I have been placed into Christ by God. 1 Cor 1:30

I have received God’s Spirit into my life. I can recognize the blessings He has given me. 1 Cor 2:12

I have been given the mind of Christ. He gives me wisdom to make the right choices. 1 Cor 2:16

I have been bought with a Price, I am not my own; I belong to God. 1 Cor 6:19, 20

I no longer live for myself; I live for God. 2 Cor 5:14, 15

I am God’s possession, chosen and secure in Him. I have been given the Holy Spirit as a promise of my inheritance. Eph 1:13, 14

I have been blessed with every spiritual blessing. Eph 1:3

I was chosen in Christ to be holy before the world was created. I am without blame before Him. Eph 1:4

I was chosen by God to be adopted as His child. Eph 1:5

I have been brought out of slavery to sin and forgiven. I have received His generous grace. Eph 1:7, 8

I have been made spiritually alive just as Christ is alive. Eph 2:5

I have been raised up and seated with Christ in Heaven. Eph 2:6

I have direct access to God through The Holy Spirit. Eph 2:18

I may approach God with confidence, boldness, and freedom. Eph 3:12

I have been rescued from the dark power of satan’s rule and have been brought into the Kingdom of Christ. Col 1:13

I have been forgiven all my sins and set free. The debt against me has been cancelled. Col 1:14

Christ Himself lives in me. Col 1:27

I am firmly rooted in Christ and am now being built-up in Him. Col 2:7

I am complete in Christ. Col 2:10

I am spiritually clean. My old sinful self has lost its power to rule my life. Col 2:11

I have been buried, raised and made alive with Christ Col 2:12, 13

I died with Christ and I have been raised up with Christ. My new life is hidden with Christ in God. Christ is now my life. Col 3:1-4

I have been given a spirit of power, love and self-control. 2 Tim 1:7

Because I am set apart and one with Christ. He is not ashamed to call me His brother or sister. Heb 2:11

I have been given great and valuable promises. God’s nature has become a part of me. 2 Pet 1:4

I copied this from another thread,it was posted by s.i.e.
I find that God has a way higher opinion of me than I do.
However this is a role we are called to step into if we dare.

 

[JustSomeone]

Well if I believe the Bible I have to believe:
I copied this from another thread,it was posted by s.i.e.
I find that God has a way higher opinion of me than I do.
However this is a role we are called to step into if we dare.

Oh yes I know what you mean. But mind you that even some of the most known saints were perceiving themselves as huuuuuge sinners. But I know where you're coming from with this since I have very low opinion on myself as well when it comes to God/sin terms.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Did you know that many Native American tribes judged a man by how powerful his enemies are,not by how much stuff he could accumulate.That also included spiritual enemies.

But mind you that even some of the most known saints were perceiving themselves as huuuuuge sinners.

True enough and that is a door we must all travel though because you can't truly forgive others until we understand that.If we judge others we judge ourselves by the same measure and we are required to forgive ourselves as well others.

There are levels of humility,the first is esteeming others higher than self.
That requires a recognition that we are capable of every evil we might see in others.
The next level of humility is believing God's word and allowing the Holy Spirit to train you to be a life guard and finally a conquer.It does not negate the first level it adds a loving heart to the conqueror.

 

[JustSomeone]

Did you know that many Native American tribes judged a man by how powerful his enemies are,not by how much stuff he could accumulate.That also included spiritual enemies.

True enough and that is a door we must all travel though because you can't truly forgive others until we understand that.If we judge others we judge ourselves by the same measure and we are required to forgive ourselves as well others.

There are levels of humility,the first is esteeming others higher than self.
That requires a recognition that we are capable of every evil we might see in others.
The next level of humility is believing God's word and allowing the Holy Spirit to train you to be a life guard and finally a conquer.It does not negate the first level it adds a loving heart to the conqueror.

Amen. I agree with everything.

But I don't know what was your point with those Native Americans to be honest...