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Understanding 2Thessalonians 2

Stephen1

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Mar 12, 2009
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184
The early believers of Thessalonica were troubled because of the prevalent false teaching that the day of the Lord was in process .... they thought they had missed the Lord's "harpazo" action to immortalize them

Paul had discussed this issue with them before [1Thessalonians 4, 5] and so he sets the record straight by explaining that the day of the Lord had not yet come ..... he also tells them why ..... because certain conditions were not present .... the coming of the lawless one and his following [falling away]

The gathering Paul speaks of and the day of the Lord are not the same events and the Lord's immortalization of the believer [both those asleep and those living at the time] will occur first ..... and then the day of the Lord will begin abruptly with no warning given to earth dwellers

The day of the Lord is His "hour" of trial [the coming tribulation period of 2,550 days] .... and will include His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth for 1,000 years

The term "last day" used in prophetic presentation is a time period .... not just one day .... and when this is used it is always presented as "at", or "in" the last day .... not "on" the last day

This use of the preposition "at" or "in" indicates that the "last day" [time] is a time frame in which many events will take place begining with the Lord's "harpazo" action for today's believer
 
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I have to say this seems a rather large stretch of the imagination. where do you get these things from. I have not seen anything like this in the word of God. so where?
 
We must learn to cast down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God; and we must rather bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. Apart from this, we are only imagining what comes to mind without the Spirit of Truth, wherein is no imagination.
As for II Thes 2:2, the Holy Spirit of Truth speaking through Paul is telling us to not be so easily shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit (i.e. another idea or concept), nor by word (i.e. promise or prediction by any man), nor by letter (i.e. some sort of official declaration, again, by man), as if they (whosoever they be) have an exclusive, that the day of Christ is at hand; and we all ought to hearken to them.
 
"I have to say this seems a rather large stretch of the imagination. where do you get these things from. I have not seen anything like this in the word of God. so where?"

>Read the scriptures given in the post from 1Thessalonians and 2Thessalonians ..... this is no imagination, but truth from the Lord's Word

>I would also suggest using a good bible search engine by the definition "last day" for studying what this term means and how it is used in the context of the passages of scripture that you will find
 
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The early believers of Thessalonica were troubled because of the prevalent false teaching that the day of the Lord was in process .... they thought they had missed the Lord's "harpazo" action to immortalize them

Howdy Stephen1!

You did a good study. I agree.

Stephen1--Paul had discussed this issue with them before [1Thessalonians 4, 5] and so he sets the record straight by explaining that the day of the Lord had not yet come ..... he also tells them why ..... because certain conditions were not present .... the coming of the lawless one and his following [falling away]
Yes, Paul did so and many Christians fail to understand, respectively speaking, that Greek words have more than one meaning.

Take for instance the Greek Word Apostasia. This Greek Word has the following meanings...

The Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon (Online) lists the following information. The Greek Word Apostasia defined...

Apostasia defined--
1. A defection or revolt
2. departure, disappearance
3. distinguishing
4. distance

Generally speaking, Apostasia is always looked at by Christians as a defection, revolt who do not hold to the Pre Tribulation Rapture Doctrine. Doesn't that make you wonder why they do?

Based on the context of Paul's writings on the Rapture we have the following words...

1 Thessalonians 4:17--Harpazo--snatched up, taken by force
2 Thessalonians 2:1--episunagogue--gathering in the air
2 Thessalonians 2:3--apostasia
2 Thessalonians 2:7--ginomia ek--to take out of

Looking at the context, The only definition that fits apostasia is departure, disappearance. So, Why do they decide to use defection, revolt? Why don't they use the correct definition in context?
Stephen1--The gathering Paul speaks of and the day of the Lord are not the same events and the Lord's immortalization of the believer [both those asleep and those living at the time] will occur first ..... and then the day of the Lord will begin abruptly with no warning given to earth dwellers

The day of the Lord is His "hour" of trial [the coming tribulation period of 2,550 days] .... and will include His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth for 1,000 years
You still think that 1 week of years (7 years) is 2550 days? Would you please show me how 7 years = 2550 days?

Based on our current Calendar--7 years x 365 days = 2555 days. Our Current Calendar does not work here. Based on God's Calendar of 30 days per month for 12 months yields the following calculation...

30 Days x 12 months = 360 days per year. 360 days x 7 years = 2520 days. Precisely.

I would say that you have a strange 7 year period that does not match God's count. Why doesn't your count match God's count?
 
"I would say that you have a strange 7 year period that does not match God's count. Why doesn't your count match God's count?"

Daniel
12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up [mid week], there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

>1260 + 1290 = 2550 days by any mathematical standards

>2520 + 30 = 2550

>The add'l 30 days have a purpose [Ezekiel 38:18-23; 39:1-29; Micah 5; Joel 2; 3; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-14; 19:11-21]

>Israel's 70th week of 2520 days will terminate [Jacob's trouble will be over] .... and then the Lord will muster the believing remnant part of the nation and destroy the beast and his followers in the next 30 days

>I would say that you have a desire to bring argumentation for sport

>Presentation of the Lord's Word is not a game son

>I have a dog that barks at the wind .... for naught
 
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"I would say that you have a strange 7 year period that does not match God's count. Why doesn't your count match God's count?"

Daniel
12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up [mid week], there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Howdy Stephen!

It is very good to see you here today. Yes, That is exactly what Daniel says.

Stephen1-->1260 + 1290 = 2550 days by any mathematical standards
I do not disagree with the math you have presented. Those 2 numbers added together = what you claim.

But, We are not dealing with just any mathematical standard. We are dealing with God's Mathematical Standard. Therefore, Your Teaching must line up with God's Mathematical Standard. If Your Teaching does not line up, Then Your teaching is wrong.

There are (2) 42 month periods in Daniel's 70th Week. 42 months = 3 1/2 years. 3 1/2 years x 2 = 7 years. Precisely. 42 months x 2 = 84 months.

Therefore, 84 months x 30 days per month = 2520 days.

Stephen1-->2520 + 30 = 2550
I agree with this math. These 2 numbers added together = what you claim. But, Here again, Why are you adding to the last 42 month period. God did not say add anywhere here in Daniel 12:11.

God said that from the midpoint of Daniel's 70th Week, There would be 1290 days. Therefore, When the last 42 month period is over, Something is going to happen. See Matthew 24:29.

Stephen-->The add'l 30 days have a purpose [Ezekiel 38:18-23; 39:1-29; Micah 5; Joel 2; 3; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-14; 19:11-21]
And, I have already listed the events that will occur during the first 30 days after the Tribulation of those days in another post. And, Ezekiel's war is not mentioned occurring after the Tribulation of those days. Not mentioned at all.

Stephen1-->Israel's 70th week of 2520 days will terminate [Jacob's trouble will be over]
Very good. I agree.

Stephen1--.... and then the Lord will muster the believing remnant part of the nation and destroy the beast and his followers in the next 30 days
The Bible does not say how long this will take. My hunch is The Battle of Armageddon will be over faster than any of us think. Christ will speak a Word, and the Battle is over. It will not take 30 days for this Word to reach earth.

Stephen-->I would say that you have a desire to bring argumentation for sport
Really? I think that you love not being precise enough to bring argumentation for sport. :)

Stephen-->Presentation of the Lord's Word is not a game son
I have never claimed that it was.

Stephen-->I have a dog that barks at the wind .... for naught
Sounds like you have a very smart dog. He/she probably sees something that you do not see and hears things you cannot hear. Reward your dog.

Have a nice day!
 
Did you miss the parallel between my dog's barking at the wind and your stories?

The Lord certainly does add the 30 days to the 70th week ... no valid argument here as you suggest by your scattered logic

I suggest that you get serious with your views rather than riding the debating train
 
Did you miss the parallel between my dog's barking at the wind and your stories?

Howdy Stephen1!

I don't think so. I said you had a very smart dog. Dogs bark at the wind because they hear things their owners cannot hear.

Stephen1--The Lord certainly does add the 30 days to the 70th week ... no valid argument here as you suggest by your scattered logic
Well, If what you say is true, Then I should be able to find it in Revelation Chapters 13-16. You did say quote The Lord certainly does add the 30 days to the 70th Week. EOQ

That is precisely what you said. And, I know you, I think. You will not back down to what you claim. Even, When God ends the 70th Week, see Matthew 24:29, and begins with Daniel's 75 Day Gap.

Do you see my point? I will illustrate it for you.

God ends the 70th Week-I-God begins again with 75 Days. 3 1/2 years = 42 months. Not so with you. Here is what you do...

God ends the 70th Week + 30 days-I-God begins again with 45 days.
3 1/2 years = 43 months. No. 43 months = 3.583 years. Do you see now why I like being precise? Because God is.

Think about it this way. If you and I were sitting in an Engineering class and the Professor asked this question and the answer is true or false.

Question: Does 3 1/2 years = 43 months? True? Or, False? You say true. I say false. Who flunks the question? You do. I am just trying my best to help you pass the question. If you truly desire to flunk, then by all means...Flunk!!!

Stephen1--I suggest that you get serious with your views rather than riding the debating train
I think it would be a very good idea if both of us practice being as precise as God is to the very best of our abilities. When We have gained preciseness, Then we can get serious.

Because, Then Both us of will be on the very same sheet music and singing the very same song.

Have a nice day!
 
This is my take on Bible Prophecy...no disrespect meant...a whole lot of people are going to meet their "end of time" today...did someone "love" enough to make sure they understood what they would be judged for if they refuse to repent and accept the gift of eternal life.

Prophecy is really interesting, but I think sometimes we lose track of today and our purpose; by getting excited over things we cannot predict. How's this, it is going to happen, is everyone ready?

I know...I am a balloon popper.
 
There are many today who seek the coming tribulation period of the Lord's wrath against an unbelieving world and teach the need for today's believer to be judged for "purification". There seems to be an intrinsic need for receiving the Lord's unmitigated wrath during His coming judgment against human intransigence in spite of the truth about the matter as the scriptures tell. This is a strange thing indeed.

There are even some who teach and claim super "elite" status in the tribulation period and that they will be transformed into invincible perfected beings for the purpose of establishing the Lord's coming millennial kingdom themselves [the many membered "manchild" corruptions of Revelation 12 presented by "latter rain" MSOG movements].

There are those who claim "protected" status by inserting themselves as the 144,000 sealed mortal children of Israel [the Watch Tower membership of the Jehovah Witnesses], or the believing part of national Israel who will flee into the Jordanian wilderness [replacement theologies], and even the two prophets who will stand before the Lord in Jerusalem [those who teach corporate body theologies]. Those who will be protected are limited and specific; and only if one is an ethnic Israelite. [Revelation 7:1-8; Zechariah 14:1-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 11:3-12]

All of these teach and project themselves into the events of the Lord's coming tribulation and wrath attempting to convince others to go with them. The Lord will suddenly execute His coming judgment against unbelief and intransigence .... and those of professing christianity who teach and follow heresy will be caught off guard. [Matthew 25:1-13; 1Thessalonians 5:1-4; Revelation 3:16-21; 16:15; 22:7; 22:18-21]

Revelation
16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame [parenthetical].

3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

1Thessalonians,
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout [command], with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [harpazo] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation
18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of [away from] great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great *****, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them [the 24 elders and the great multitude]: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands [the martyrs of the tribulation period]; and they lived and reigned with Jesus Christ a thousand years.

WARNING: The believer must be ready for the Lord's coming abrupt action to immortalize the believer and not to be found refuting His promise. There are only two resurrections to immortality scheduled during the tribulation period .... the Lord's two prophets [Revelation 11:11-12] and the tribulation martyrs [Revelation 6:9-11; 20:4 (those beheaded)].

No others are described. The gatherings of a few surviving mortals at the end of the tribulation period are not resurrections to immortality. The Lord will gather the survivors and separate them; those found believing will enter and populate His coming millennial kingdom on the earth. [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46].

But before all of this .... just before His coming hour [time] of trial .... He is going to immortalize today's church of both those asleep and those living in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye .... at a time that no one can know [1Corinthians 15:22-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-17; 5:1-4; Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:10-11; 18:4]

Do not let the false teachers and the false prophets of professing christianity deceive you regarding this issue. They have come, are in abundance today, and all carry the hallmark false teaching of refuting the Lord's early immortalization of the believer just before He brings His wrath and judgment against a world of unbelief and intransigence against Him.

Satan is behind this onslaught of false teaching against the Lord and His intents .... because he hates the potential for human immortality. [Matthew 24:4-5; 2Peter 2,3; 2timothy 3,4]
 
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