Understanding the death grip of false doctrine.

[gdemoss]

It may seem perplexing that you can lay the truth out before someone and they deny the very truth you deliver. How come they are blind?

Illustration:

Person 1: It is written that Jesus became the author of salvation to all that obey him and he also said that you must forgive everyone or not be forgiven. How then can being unforgiving get you into the kingdom?

Person 2: It is written, you are saved by grace through faith and not of works lest you should have reason to boast. Are you trying to work for your salvation?

Person 1: It is written, faith without works is dead. Works are necessary to prove you believe.

Person 2: It is written, No one will be justified by the works of the law.

Person 1: I'll pray for you (leaves heartbroken unable to understand).

Person 2: And I you (leaves heartbroken unable to understand).

<hr>

Spiritual warfare is not about confronting evil by slinging swords as was seen in the temptation of Christ our Lord, who is blessed forevermore. He wasn't trying to save Satan. He was simply defending himself. Spiritual warfare is about receiving wisdom, understanding and knowledge from the Lord via the Holy Spirit and then using that wisdom to obtain the soul of another who will hear you. You must find out about what you cannot see.

Illustration:

Abby was a brilliant woman. She loved everyone and everyone loved her. She had a hangup about Christmas and Santa Clause. Although she was a successful business manager at 36 she still believed in Santa Clause and defended his existence with a religious fervor. Many people had come to her with great wisdom and proofs yet she still held to her understanding. At the age of 40, she had a nervous breakdown and lost her business. She was placed under psychological care. Her doctor worked with her for 2 years without much effect. She prayed "God, please show them all the truth, that Santa is real!". Then one day as Abby was exposing her grief over the loss of her grandfather, her doctor thought of a good therapeutic exercise. He took Abby to the grave yard and played the role of her grandfather and allowed Abby to speak and to say all of those things that were on her mind. During the hour long mono-log her doctor heard a great many things of the love Abby had for her grandfather. He was the source of her truth. He was the reason that she was who she was. She wept....and said "I can't do it anymore papa, nobody believes in Santa and I know that you would never have lied to me". Her doctor understood and was able to help her recover her life.

Those who loved her and tried to help her understand that there was no Santa didn't understand why she held on so tightly to the lie. Only the one with all the information was able to clearly see to remove the mote that was in Abby,s eye. Many people wander the earth believing what those who love them have told them is true. For many to admit otherwise would be to admit that the one they loved that passed away was a heretic and is in Hell. Maybe a dead husband or parent. These people were not bad people in the sense that they purposely went around hurting people. They are simply people who were deceived and went on to deceive others through love.

Unfortunately Abby's grandfather never knew Jesus.

What it amounts to is who is the source of the truth. The Holy Spirit speaks to the believer both from within and without. Without, he speaks through other believers and within directly through the still small voice. A person who believes can choose to both withstand the voice from without as well as grieve the one from within. They choose to believe the voice of the one who loved them in this world.

We are in Gods army. Let us graduate from the infantry and go on to become Special Forces tactical unit members extracting the lost souls from the enemy. Pray that God will equip you with what you need to drop in behind enemy lines and bind the strong man of the house.

Gary

 

[jari]

Hi Gary

It may seem perplexing that you can lay the truth out before someone and they deny the very truth you deliver. How come they are blind?

Bible can be interpreted in so many ways. Why do you say they are blind? in the examples you made you'e shown how bible can seemingly contradict it self while in reality it doesnt. So why don't you explain the word.. instead of ignoring the contradiction on how you lay out the word?

Person 1: It is written that Jesus became the author of salvation to all that obey him and he also said that you must forgive everyone or not be forgiven. How then can being unforgiving get you into the kingdom?

Jesus never said you cant get to kingdom if you dont forgive. this is one big false doctrine thats based on human understanding of what God will do. And its assumption.

Person 1: It is written, faith without works is dead. Works are necessary to prove you believe.

Prove to who? there's no need to prove it.

But we do need more faith and there works may help us.
(this is what james was talking about)


so it comes to how you interpret the bible. let me ask why would i choose one verse over other? isnt that just pure preference of human mind?

It has to be all explained without contradictions otherwise i don't think its right interpreation at all...

I hope you understand what Im saying and seeing as the problem Gary.

God bless

And happy christmas

 

[gdemoss]

Hi Gary

Bible can be interpreted in so many ways.

As many ways as there are people.

Why do you say they are blind?

Because they can't see.

in the examples you made you'e shown how bible can seemingly contradict it self while in reality it doesnt. So why don't you explain the word.. instead of ignoring the contradiction on how you lay out the word?

I have absolutely no idea what you are wanting from me.

Jesus never said you cant get to kingdom if you dont forgive. this is one big false doctrine thats based on human understanding of what God will do. And its assumption.

Matt 18:23-35

Prove to who? there's no need to prove it.

Heb 9:1-2

so it comes to how you interpret the bible.

I stopped interpreting the bible. When I was doing that I was following false doctrine that my carnal mind was satisfied with.

let me ask why would i choose one verse over other? isnt that just pure preference of human mind?

Yes.

It has to be all explained without contradictions otherwise i don't think its right interpreation at all...

Your right. It does not contradict it self. people do.

I hope you understand what Im saying and seeing as the problem Gary.

God bless

And happy christmas

You have a nice night too.

Gary

 

[judge not]

In John 6:44 - " No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day" and Jesus said, many are called but FEW are chosen.
If God did not place some spiritual understanding of His Word into our minds and provide us an incentive to repent, we would never recognize how much we need to change.
according to scripture God opens are mind to a basic understanding of the Scriptures and our need to repent.
Millions claim to know God but in reality they ignore the terms He set for us to enter into a relationship with Him
Is it possible that those that are not called are blinded to the real meaning and interpretation of scripture-twisting it and deceiving others with false doctrines?

 

[gdemoss]

In John 6:44 - " No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day" and Jesus said, many are called but FEW are chosen.
If God did not place some spiritual understanding of His Word into our minds and provide us an incentive to repent, we would never recognize how much we need to change.
according to scripture God opens are mind to a basic understanding of the Scriptures and our need to repent.
Millions claim to know God but in reality they ignore the terms He set for us to enter into a relationship with Him
Is it possible that those that are not called are blinded to the real meaning and interpretation of scripture-twisting it and deceiving others with false doctrines?

Bingo, nice wording.

 

[Kit Carson]

The religion of man, that surrounds God. Lol! It can create fear and confusion.

It is so very simple, we accept God and accept Christ as our salvation and the Holy Spirit guides us. So we acquire faith.

When we do acquire faith and belief then works of compassion and to help others follows. It is one and the same, one is a part of the other.

God is a trinity, he has three parts and even seven spirits, and we have faith and works , all are a part of the whole. To try to say one stands by the other is silly as this is impossible as belief and acceptance creates works.

There is opinion in the bible and tradition and many things. Things are put in words by the men who were moved to do so, but if they all were identical I would be concerned, as they do differ a bit, then it tells me the mix of spirits provides a true message.

I saw a thread the other day, if one is a good man, but does not believe he is going to hell. So silly, God is not unjust, God is not evil and God has a great deal of common sense and is absolutely fair and just. It is man who puts the demands and opinion on things, one just has to ask God how to sort it all out.

So by works an atheist can enter heaven, do not believe me, go read Ezekiel 18 , specifically from verse 5 to 9. A good man who lives by law and works is equal in the eyes of God.

Christians seem to wish to live in fear. instead of accepting the simple message of just ask and you are saved, and I will hold you and not let you go, they fear, and doubt and put their own fears into the discussion of things and confusion runs loose.
So the Holy Spirit tells me, I am saved by grace, all I have to do is accept. It is also revealed to me that a good man, good in the eyes of God is also saved. That God is very wise and just and many things written by man are opinion of man.

Thank you God for turning me loose from all that nonsense!!! From the study of the word to the point I become one who lives in fear. From allowing man to control me. I wish you God to control me, and I laugh at the antics of man.

We accept God, and the belief in God by that very result results in works. It can be as simple as opening the door for someone to paying their rent if need be. It can be as simple as a kind word, or as elaborate as a ministry. Faith and works, are one and the same, both a part of the one.

Kit

 

[jari]

Hi Gary

I have absolutely no idea what you are wanting from me.

Some one givesverse and you give another that contradicts the verse given to you. You use the verse you picked to base doctrines on ignoring all contradicting verses.
I ask you to explain how can you do that?

I wouldnt personally make any doctrines with just parts of the bible.

Matt 18:23-35

I dont see Jesus talking about entering the kingdom here. What made you think this has something to do with heaven?

Heb 9:1-2


So you believe you need to prove your faith, to God?

I hope you see what i mean.. i think the things you say are matter of choosing the meaning you wish for bible verses. I dont know why you choose the meaning you wish but its your choice entirely.

Would be interesting to know if there's any logic behind this kinda intepreation or is it just spiritual wisdom that I dont understand?

take care

 

[gdemoss]

Hi Gary


Some one givesverse and you give another that contradicts the verse given to you. You use the verse you picked to base doctrines on ignoring all contradicting verses.
I ask you to explain how can you do that?

I wouldnt personally make any doctrines with just parts of the bible.

Yes, my example showed both sides of an argument where each person was trying to teach the other using verses that they understood to be saying a certain something without true regard to the truth. It all comes down to skill of using the word. Do we have milk or meat?

I have ceased to make doctrines at all and have decided to follow only those presented to me in the bible by God such as the doctrine of Christ which is necessary for salvation.

I dont see Jesus talking about entering the kingdom here. What made you think this has something to do with heaven?

Thank you for making clear what you don't see. I will pray about this and ask the Spirit to help me guide you into the truth you are missing unless of course the Spirit is using you to direct me into study that will give me a more excellent understanding of the verses in question.

I hope you see what i mean.. i think the things you say are matter of choosing the meaning you wish for bible verses. I dont know why you choose the meaning you wish but its your choice entirely.

Jari, the way I decide right from wrong in bible study is to take my questions to the Holy Spirit. He and I are one spirit just as a man and woman are one flesh. I have to do my best to listen and not to do as you think I am doing, choosing meaning that "I wish" to be correct.

Would be interesting to know if there's any logic behind this kinda intepreation or is it just spiritual wisdom that I dont understand?

take care

Amen

Lord, God in heaven, creator of heaven and earth who is only wise, I am filled with Joy to come before you on behalf of my brother, Jari. He wishes to obtain the understanding behind the logic of interpreting the bible the way that I do. I ask, dearest Lord, that you do just that and give him what he seeks. Please remove any barriers that may be blocking him from hearing your spirit speak such as pride. Help him as you have helped me to understand that we must submit ourselves unto you for understanding in all things and not rely on our own understanding if we are ever to see the truth. I praise you O God for molding me as you have by your grace so that I am what I am today. As you reign from heaven on high, I ask for my brother Jari, that you give him your spirit of understanding in the Holy Scriptures if he will submit his own intellect unto you.

As Jesus would pray, not my will my lord but thine be done,

 

[jari]

Gary, you believe that you receive God's truth that no one else has and its only revealed to you. We all read the bible but only you know what its saying because you believe its all secret message. And so carnal mind cannot understand it.

But I take Bible literally.. and when I read something i can only look into the context when figuring out what it means and thus I can also satisfy on the interpretation if its logical within the context.

However you say verses and words means things that can only be understood correctly in spirit. Thus you cannot prove them from the bible it self. And you cannot prove your interpretation to be correct by using the bible.
So you think we should pray for understand or else we wont.
I don't think God intended bible to be read this wise.. I believe its understandble to every reader who has the spirit of God but it's also as simple as is any human written book or letter. And there's nothing meant to be secret for a believer. Except the parables which are of the special nature.

Like Apostole Paul says that what they wrote is acknowledgeable and not hidden secret revealed only by prayer.

2Co 1:13 For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end;


So I just want you to know that I understand the bible too and understand it very well. And I hope you would not assume I don't know somethings because I asked you a question. Your interpreation is yours like I said and I have mine. I only wanted to ask how you came up with the understanding you personally have. But because you have it in way that cannot be proven from the bible I can't agree with it.

So again we have our ways of seeing things and if we both would claim to have answer via the spirit would come up with different explanation how would that look?
So I'm very satisfied on my interpreation of the same verses that have logical explanation directly from the word it self and not nessarily from God's spirit because God's spirit , Jesus cave us the word at the first place to be understood as it is with logical meaning behind the words of the parable...

I dont mean to say we never mean to pray for wisdom but that the word is understandable to every believer in Christ when viewed with right kind of wisdom. Such we can all agree on. And such that the text supports all the way and not partially and leaves no room for speculation.


That's the way I read anyways

I understand you read differently but I cant relate to, as I strongly believe in the word as it is and leave no word ignored :shade:

God bless

 

[gdemoss]

Gary, you believe that you receive God's truth that no one else has and its only revealed to you. We all read the bible but only you know what its saying because you believe its all secret message. And so carnal mind cannot understand it.

But I take Bible literally.. and when I read something i can only look into the context when figuring out what it means and thus I can also satisfy on the interpretation if its logical within the context.

However you say verses and words means things that can only be understood correctly in spirit. Thus you cannot prove them from the bible it self. And you cannot prove your interpretation to be correct by using the bible.
So you think we should pray for understand or else we wont.
I don't think God intended bible to be read this wise.. I believe its understandble to every reader who has the spirit of God but it's also as simple as is any human written book or letter. And there's nothing meant to be secret for a believer. Except the parables which are of the special nature.

Like Apostole Paul says that what they wrote is acknowledgeable and not hidden secret revealed only by prayer.

2Co 1:13 For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end;


So I just want you to know that I understand the bible too and understand it very well. And I hope you would not assume I don't know somethings because I asked you a question. Your interpreation is yours like I said and I have mine. I only wanted to ask how you came up with the understanding you personally have. But because you have it in way that cannot be proven from the bible I can't agree with it.

So again we have our ways of seeing things and if we both would claim to have answer via the spirit would come up with different explanation how would that look?
So I'm very satisfied on my interpreation of the same verses that have logical explanation directly from the word it self and not nessarily from God's spirit because God's spirit , Jesus cave us the word at the first place to be understood as it is with logical meaning behind the words of the parable...

I dont mean to say we never mean to pray for wisdom but that the word is understandable to every believer in Christ when viewed with right kind of wisdom. Such we can all agree on. And such that the text supports all the way and not partially and leaves no room for speculation.


That's the way I read anyways

I understand you read differently but I cant relate to, as I strongly believe in the word as it is and leave no word ignored :shade:

God bless

Jari, you have a limited understanding of me, but it is getting better as you have dealt with me. I do believe that I am receiving the interpretation that I am getting from God through his Holy Spirit. But I do not believe that I am the only one receiving it. Others here at TJ have been receiving and teaching me things that I did not know. That is how the body of Christ works. As long as you require the bible to speak explicitly to you in a literal manner you will not understand it the way God has intended it to be understood. This is not to say that when the bible says something literally happened that it didn't actually happen such as the 7 day creation, but that the bible is actually alive and not just static text that God had written down for a single purpose. The danger lies in mans imagination getting involved. A mans imagination is wicked from his youth and will distort the bible to see it as he desires it.

Illustration: A man is driving down the road praying for the leading of the spirit. He waits and listens for the spirit to guide and hears nothing. He sees something on the side of the road and believes that he needs to stop and see what it is as maybe the spirit is showing him something. He finds a pair of pajama pants there. He kicks them with his foot and seeks understanding. The wind is blowing and he stops to think that maybe the spirit is guiding him to seek in the direction of the wind for the reason why he was led to the pajama pants. Confused he goes back to driving. Certain he has missed something he returns to the pajama pants and retrieves them. Driving again he sees a ditch with a culvert going under the road and an eerie feeling that there is a boy who belongs to the pajama pants lying dead in the culvert comes over him. He follows the thought to its logical end and finds no boy. Alas, he stops giving in to his imagination and drives home understanding what happened to him.

Reading the bible as a spiritual text can be a lot like that journey. This is one of the reasons for multiple people receiving from the spirit. Together, those who are spiritual can discern the true meaning of the text as the spirit of God will only reveal the truth and that truth is to match across all those who receive his word. An example of this is seen in 1 Corinthians when speaking about prophets speaking in the church. One speaks and the others listen and either acknowledge truth or error. Jesus said my words are spirit. I believe him. Spiritual words are spiritually discerned by revelation from Gods spirit to ours.

We are close to understanding one anothers position clearly. Since we are not of the same mind we cannot agree nor have true fellowship one with the other. Feel free to ask questions anytime whether you think you understand the answers already or not. I am always open. But know this. You cannot convert me to your way of thinking as I once thought that way but have rejected it as error. The spirit I now follow, whom I believe to be the spirit of God, teaches me. whether it be from within by speaking to me in a still small voice or from without through others who share the same spirit. So if your desire is to teach me then I beg you to spend your time on someone else.

In the most holy name of Jesus, my Fathers Son,

Gary

 

[jari]

Jari, you have a limited understanding of me, but it is getting better as you have dealt with me. I do believe that I am receiving the interpretation that I am getting from God through his Holy Spirit. But I do not believe that I am the only one receiving it. Others here at TJ have been receiving and teaching me things that I did not know. That is how the body of Christ works. As long as you require the bible to speak explicitly to you in a literal manner you will not understand it the way God has intended it to be understood. This is not to say that when the bible says something literally happened that it didn't actually happen such as the 7 day creation, but that the bible is actually alive and not just static text that God had written down for a single purpose. The danger lies in mans imagination getting involved. A mans imagination is wicked from his youth and will distort the bible to see it as he desires it.

Illustration: A man is driving down the road praying for the leading of the spirit. He waits and listens for the spirit to guide and hears nothing. He sees something on the side of the road and believes that he needs to stop and see what it is as maybe the spirit is showing him something. He finds a pair of pajama pants there. He kicks them with his foot and seeks understanding. The wind is blowing and he stops to think that maybe the spirit is guiding him to seek in the direction of the wind for the reason why he was led to the pajama pants. Confused he goes back to driving. Certain he has missed something he returns to the pajama pants and retrieves them. Driving again he sees a ditch with a culvert going under the road and an eerie feeling that there is a boy who belongs to the pajama pants lying dead in the culvert comes over him. He follows the thought to its logical end and finds no boy. Alas, he stops giving in to his imagination and drives home understanding what happened to him.

Reading the bible as a spiritual text can be a lot like that journey. This is one of the reasons for multiple people receiving from the spirit. Together, those who are spiritual can discern the true meaning of the text as the spirit of God will only reveal the truth and that truth is to match across all those who receive his word. An example of this is seen in 1 Corinthians when speaking about prophets speaking in the church. One speaks and the others listen and either acknowledge truth or error. Jesus said my words are spirit. I believe him. Spiritual words are spiritually discerned by revelation from Gods spirit to ours.

We are close to understanding one anothers position clearly. Since we are not of the same mind we cannot agree nor have true fellowship one with the other. Feel free to ask questions anytime whether you think you understand the answers already or not. I am always open. But know this. You cannot convert me to your way of thinking as I once thought that way but have rejected it as error. The spirit I now follow, whom I believe to be the spirit of God, teaches me. whether it be from within by speaking to me in a still small voice or from without through others who share the same spirit. So if your desire is to teach me then I beg you to spend your time on someone else.

As long as you require the bible to speak explicitly to you in a literal manner you will not understand it the way God has intended it to be understood. This is not to say that when the bible says something literally happened that it didn't actually happen such as the 7 day creation, but that the bible is actually alive and not just static text that God had written down for a single purpose. The danger lies in mans imagination getting involved. A mans imagination is wicked from his youth and will distort the bible to see it as he desires it.

I agree 100%

But I also believe the Spirit and Word are one so that both are truth. But your interpration of prison being hell does not make sense. Because prison is always place of temporary hold, it isnt explicitly clear that what Jesus said refers to eternal hold of anykind... But contrary when Jesus says you wont get out from there untill you've paid the last dime then it implies you will get out of there.
So correct interpreation if you ask me is temporary punishment and not eternal.

This is how both scripture and spirit must agree . Even spirit would reveal you the truth of the matter it still perfectly relates to the word. otherwise bible could be just full of mysterious symbols that we try to figure out via the spirit :wink:
No when we receive truth from the spirit it also makes sense in the bible all the way and it becomes clear its correct interpreation and nothing should be left for speculation.
If the "truth" we have doesnt match with bible, perfectly, then possibility is that it isnt the truth we have. But rather misconception.

you cannot convert me to your way of thinking as I once thought that way but have rejected it as error. The spirit I now follow, whom I believe to be the spirit of God, teaches me.

So do I. And because this is open forum I reply back with my opinion.

take care.

 

[gdemoss]

But your interpration of prison being hell does not make sense. Because prison is always place of temporary hold, it isnt explicitly clear that what Jesus said refers to eternal hold of anykind... But contrary when Jesus says you wont get out from there untill you've paid the last dime then it implies you will get out of there.
So correct interpreation if you ask me is temporary punishment and not eternal.

So according to your interpretation prison cannot be permanent. This is where the spirit tells me different. The truth lies in the ability to repay the debt. In the text the original the debt forgiven was one that couldn't possibly have been repayed even if the person in question lived his whole life working solely to repay the debt. He would die before being able to repay. Therefore the implied meaning is that one would remain in Hell forever not being able to repay the debt as he would be without the blood of Christ which is the necessary currency needed to repay the debt and receive the forgiveness that was spoken of. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; Salvation comes at the end of our faith at the judgement seat where the judge will proclaim one innocent or guilty based upon the evidence of works that were produced by faith.

 

[jari]

Hi Gary

So according to your interpretation prison cannot be permanent. This is where the spirit tells me different. The truth lies in the ability to repay the debt. In the text the original the debt forgiven was one that couldn't possibly have been repayed even if the person in question lived his whole life working solely to repay the debt. He would die before being able to repay. Therefore the implied meaning is that one would remain in Hell forever not being able to repay the debt as he would be without the blood of Christ which is the necessary currency needed to repay the debt and receive the forgiveness that was spoken of. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; Salvation comes at the end of our faith at the judgement seat where the judge will proclaim one innocent or guilty based upon the evidence of works that were produced by faith.

Jesus words imply the possibility of being set free. Why else mention the repay part?

Truly only blood of christ can repay our dept , now salvation being free gift, why would we need to repay anything really? This is why I see the text as disciplinary action only.

innocent / guilty ? only Jesus can declare us innocent by His grace.

 

[gdemoss]

Jesus words imply the possibility of being set free. Why else mention the repay part?

Mentioning repay = Justice required irregardless of ability to repay.

Implication of the text is justice. IF condition can be met, only THEN can freedom be accomplished.

 

[jari]

Mentioning repay = Justice required irregardless of ability to repay.

Implication of the text is justice. IF condition can be met, only THEN can freedom be accomplished.

What if Lord puts us in prison for while if we dont forgive something to our brethen?
repay = time here


Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

do also unto you... when I read that it sounds much more like something is infact done to us instead of us being utterly crushed.

God bless

 

[gdemoss]

What if Lord puts us in prison for while if we dont forgive something to our brethen?
repay = time here


Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

do also unto you... when I read that it sounds much more like something is infact done to us instead of us being utterly crushed.

God bless

The second death is something done unto us.

 

[jari]

The second death is something done unto us.

The bible could clearly say its unforgiveable if you dont forgive... But instead Jesus makes parable and talks about something God can do to us even now.

The apostoles never mentioned anything about eternal punishments if your not perfect.. and i believe thats because we always still have grace. But God wants us to forgive so that He wont held us accountable over our tresspasses.


Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Notice in this verse Jesus doesnt say if you judge you will pay eternal consequences but that you will be judged with same judgment. And given with same measure.

So God deals us like children and doesnt just condemn us over imperfections.


God bless you

 

[gdemoss]

The bible could clearly say its unforgiveable if you dont forgive... But instead Jesus makes parable and talks about something God can do to us even now.

The apostoles never mentioned anything about eternal punishments if your not perfect.. and i believe thats because we always still have grace. But God wants us to forgive so that He wont held us accountable over our tresspasses.


Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Notice in this verse Jesus doesnt say if you judge you will pay eternal consequences but that you will be judged with same judgment. And given with same measure.

So God deals us like children and doesnt just condemn us over imperfections.


God bless you

Jari,

When man sinned, the great white throne judgment became a future reality. All men will be judged by God. Every man will be entitled to exact perfect revenge on all who ever wronged him. That is the only righteous way. God will be on the throne judging between the people. God so loved the world that he sent Jesus to pay the penalty for all revenge that will be exacted on that day including the Fathers. When I stand before my accusers, I will be declared just. Jesus has taken my place as the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. I am the skapegoat who gets to freely run off into the wilderness unaffected.

If God did this for me, then I am obligated to do this for others. Complete forgiveness is the only righteous way, otherwise I am unrighteous. What I must forgive:

• Any and all who come to me in repentance.
• Any and all who are ignorant of their offense against me.

I am not obligated to forgive unrepentant sin that is known to be sin by the opposing party. In fact, I am to step aside and commit all judgment to Christ the righteous judge who will render to all according to their deeds. I must always be prepared to forgive any and all who will turn to face me in repentance. If they never turn to face me whether it be at my rebuke or Gods, then they will suffer their fate ultimately under God.

What saith the spirit that guides you?

Gary

 

[jari]

Jari,

When man sinned, the great white throne judgment became a future reality. All men will be judged by God. Every man will be entitled to exact perfect revenge on all who ever wronged him. That is the only righteous way. God will be on the throne judging between the people. God so loved the world that he sent Jesus to pay the penalty for all revenge that will be exacted on that day including the Fathers. When I stand before my accusers, I will be declared just. Jesus has taken my place as the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. I am the skapegoat who gets to freely run off into the wilderness unaffected.

If God did this for me, then I am obligated to do this for others. Complete forgiveness is the only righteous way, otherwise I am unrighteous. What I must forgive:

• Any and all who come to me in repentance.
• Any and all who are ignorant of their offense against me.

Gary,

God has forgiven me unforgiveness also. Thats what grace is.....
Because He has adopted me as His son thanks to His grace.

But there are certain rules and i must forgive others or He will held me accountable if i dont forgive my brethen. Like He has forgiven me everything.
But nothing changes the fact that He has forgiven me everything. Because I never earned His forgiveness at the first place.

God bless

 

[gdemoss]

Gary,

God has forgiven me unforgiveness also. Thats what grace is.....
Because He has adopted me as His son thanks to His grace.

But there are certain rules and i must forgive others or He will held me accountable if i dont forgive my brethen. Like He has forgiven me everything.
But nothing changes the fact that He has forgiven me everything. Because I never earned His forgiveness at the first place.

God bless

One of us is in gross err, but we have reached a point where we have exhausted our ability to be helpful to one another in this discussion. We must wait and rely on God to be the one who reveals his truth unto the heart of the hearer. God resists the proud but gives grace unto the humble. May Gods grace be upon you.

I am done with the discussion until God appoints a proper time.

In Christ,

Gary