Understanding the End Times

[Chad]

Scripture speaks of a literal lake of fire, or hell. But some believers find this hard to reconcile with biblical teachings about God’s love, forgiveness, and grace. They consider it excessive for a God of love to send people to hell forever. After all, they reason, how can 70 or 80 years of sin merit an eternity of torment?

That question reveals an error in their understanding of sin and God’s nature. If man’s eternal destiny were a matter of counterbalancing his bad deeds with good, these questions might have some merit. If hell were part of a system that allowed a person to repay the Lord for sin, 70 years versus eternity would seem disproportionate. If God arbitrarily decided the rules about who goes to heaven or hell, we would have good cause to call His fairness into question.

But hell is a reality because we have an incompatibility problem. God’s holiness cannot coexist with man’s wickedness. And no amount of time spent away from His presence will change that.

The rules that determine who goes to heaven and hell are established by God’s holy nature. It is hard for us to grasp the power and awesomeness of His glory and holiness. John—who also knew Jesus well—saw the Savior in all His divine splendor and fell down like a dead man (Rev. 1:16-17). Why? He was overwhelmed by the magnificence of God.

The only solution to this dilemma is for the Lord to change us, which is the very reason Christ came and died—to pave the way for change in our very nature. Those who accept Jesus’ death as the payment for their sin are made holy ( 2 Cor. 5:21). That is why we who believe in the Savior are referred to as saints, and the Holy Spirit is able to dwell in us. At salvation, there is a fundamental change in our nature, and we become one with Jesus Christ.

Those who reject the gift of salvation go to hell because their natures are incompatible with heaven. The quantity or severity of their sins doesn’t send them there. The problem is that they have not been cleansed of sin, so they remain unholy.

Although hell isn’t the most pleasant topic discussed in the Bible, there is some good news about it. Like heaven, hell will not be the same for everyone there. On one occasion when Jesus was sending His disciples out to preach in the surrounding villages, He made a notable comment about the final judgment:
Whatever city you enter and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, “Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.” I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city (Luke 10:10-12).

The phrase “more tolerable” indicates that there will be different degrees of punishment. The judgment—and hell—will be more unbearable for some than for others. Because they had been exposed to more teaching and miracles, people from the towns visited by Christ’s disciples would be held more accountable than the residents of Sodom—having received more truth, they had less excuse for not believing.

In John’s description of the final judgment, we find further evidence for hell not being the same for everybody: “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds” (Rev. 20:13, emphasis added). What a person does in this life does not determine where he will go when he dies, but it does affect what it will be like when he gets there.

The Bible doesn’t elaborate on how punishment in hell will differ from one person to the next. Neither does it outline which sins will incur a greater punishment. All we know is that before handing down a sentence, Christ will take into account the type of life each person lived.

Now, this in no way implies that hell will be a good place for anybody. People in hell will forever be separated from God and all that is good. As much as I dislike the idea, I do believe that the lake of fire (hell) is a real, literal place. And as hard as it is to grasp, I do accept the Bible’s teaching that people will eventually be sent to remain there for eternity.

I believe this because of the sacrifice Jesus made. If He had not thought hell was real, He would not have gone to such extreme measures to pay the price for humanity to avoid it. His belief was so deep, and His mission so clear, that it drove Him to leave His throne in glory and die an excruciating death.

So how should you respond? Christ’s desire to rescue you from hell motivated Him to give His life for you. If you haven’t already accepted His sacrifice on your behalf, I encourage you to do so. Jesus wants to cleanse you of sin and give you a brand-new life. Confess your wrongdoing to the Lord, ask Him to forgive you, and invite Him to be the leader of your life. Then you can be sure of spending eternity in the God’s presence.

If you are already a follower of Jesus, let His sacrifice motivate you to reach out to and pray for lost people. Ask God for divine opportunities to share about new life in Christ. Allow the Lord to speak through you and use you to rescue people from eternity without Him.

Adapted from “Charles Stanley’s Handbook for Christian Living,” 1996.

 

[KingJ]

I agree with this all except the phrase that Jesus rescues us from hell. His motivation to die for us was never to rescue us from hell. It has always been to reconcile man with God. Man chooses hell. He cannot rescue us from that. Nobody in sin is automatically destined for hell. Only those who love what is evil, that is the verdict John 3:19.

We have to always remember the OT when understanding salvation. Nobody was in God's presence. But not everyone was in Hades.

Just to add....We also have to always remember that God is good with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5. So when we imagine His holiness = hell for many...that is true, but we cannot imagine a cruel hell at all. We don't always get this at first because we have such wicked thoughts going through our minds. We want revenge. We want to see the evil suffer. Whereas God is incapable of such evil thoughts. He is impassible. His thoughts are not ours. He is incapable of evil. Many people's idea of hell is actually theirs and or the devils. God has to describe absence from Him as death as it is the only word in our language / human vernacular that properly describes this state. IE He is talking from His vantage point.

To God a lake of fire could be many things. We mostly go and assume the absolute worst. We need to read Gen 3 properly. Look at the curses and then realize that they are not so bad. Vs 17 cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life. This sounds worse then what actually is. Eden must have been very nice to warrant this kind of extreme speech. I believe it is because heaven is going to be so nice that the only comparison to not being there, that we will understand / does it justice is...lake of fire.

The rich man asked for a drop of water on his tongue in Hades. If I was being burnt alive I would be screaming for a truck load. Jesus says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Oscar Pretorius did this daily in court before he went to prison. If someone was sitting in lava you would expect Jesus to say ''screaming and teeth falling out''.

We serve a good God. Punishment en route to all is going to be something we will all agree with. IE on par or better then the Geneva convention. This is something we currently all agree with. Even many unsaved...

I believe we need to speak very carefully on punishment in hell. We easily expose our hearts and inability to discern. We are not beyond discerning a fair punishment. Our current minds are able to excuse us before God 1 Cor 11:31...they can certainly understand a fair punishment if we are not excused. As Paul says we will judge angels one-day. I wonder how many of us will make an angel burn in fire for eternity.

So to conclude. I believe separation is a guaranteed / not open to debate. But suffering, completely open to debate.

 

[B-A-C]

I agree with this all except the phrase that Jesus rescues us from hell. His motivation to die for us was never to rescue us from hell. It has always been to reconcile man with God. Man chooses hell. He cannot rescue us from that. Nobody in sin is automatically destined for hell. Only those who love what is evil, that is the verdict John 3:19.

Sorry, heaven isn't the default destination. Hell is.
Without Jesus... you go to hell. There's no other way. If we don't need Jesus, then why call yourself a Christian,
if there's another way, why don't you take it?

Rom 5:12; says sin was spread to ALL men.
Rom 3:23; says ALL have sinned...
Those living in sin... are automatically destined for hell. No repentance = no salvation.
Struggling with sin.... should not equal living in sin.

There is no purgatory... there is no middle ground. Either you're with God... or you're in the lake of fire.

 

[KingJ]

1. Sorry, heaven isn't the default destination. 2. Hell is.
3. Without Jesus... you go to hell. 4. There's no other way. 5. If we don't need Jesus, then why call yourself a Christian, 6. if there's another way, why don't you take it?
Rom 5:12; says sin was spread to ALL men.
Rom 3:23; says ALL have sinned...
7. Those living in sin... are automatically destined for hell. No repentance = no salvation.
8. Struggling with sin.... should not equal living in sin.

1. Never said it is.
2. No it's not.
3. No you don't. Having sin places you on earth. Neither hell nor heaven. We can't make a statement like yours. We need to rather say ''rejecting Jesus means you love what is evil > hating it. As no person who hates what is evil would reject Jesus. This choice places you in hell. Your statement sounds as though it is wrong religion VS right religion.
4. We need to understand that there was an AB in the OT.
5. I never said we don't need Jesus .
6. No way exists as nobody saves us from hell. You believe in universalism?
7. That is your assumption. We all have sin. Having sin has never been the issue. Loving or hating it is everything.
8. Agreed, unless the sin we struggling with is mortal.

 

[KingJ]

1. No repentance = no salvation.

2. There is no purgatory... there is no middle ground. Either you're with God... or you're in the lake of fire.

1. Just noticed that my reply to yours (pt 7 above) is saying the same thing as you. People don't repent because they don't hate what they are doing.

2. Agreed.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

1. Never said it is.
2. No it's not.
3. No you don't. Having sin places you on earth. Neither hell nor heaven. We can't make a statement like yours. We need to rather say ''rejecting Jesus means you love what is evil > hating it. As no person who hates what is evil would reject Jesus. This choice places you in hell. Your statement sounds as though it is wrong religion VS right religion.
4. We need to understand that there was an AB in the OT.
5. I never said we don't need Jesus .
6. No way exists as nobody saves us from hell. You believe in universalism?
7. That is your assumption. We all have sin. Having sin has never been the issue. Loving or hating it is everything.
8. Agreed, unless the sin we struggling with is mortal.

Kj Hello Brother
If I reject your offer on a 410 rear end then you dont get the rear end. If you reject Jesus you dont get washed in His blood and made able to dwell in Heaven with the Creator.

To reject is to refuse and it is just that simple - you dont need to love evil to reject Jesus bro.
Every single person born on this earth AFTER THE CROSS is hell bound with out the washing of Christ blood.
Now please dont go and use children under the age of accountability or mentally ill and so forth. We are talking about your every day man born of a woman.

The church is full of people who hate evil and do good. They live their life with the notion that God will see they tried to live a good life and did good deeds in His name so they will get in. That is sad and not true for the only way to the Father is through Jesus and you know this.

All men thanks to the first adam are born into sin. This sin is our ticket to hell or sepperation from God but we can accept Jesus our Christ as our Lord and change that destination. Simply put KJ - we are born on a train going south and Jesus came and brought a new ticket that we all can have that will put us on the Rightious train going north - that is if we pay the price for the ticket which is simply giving up our life and taking on the Life Jesus purchased for us. Simple enough ? LOL

I pray that you and your family KJ have a very Merry and Blessed Christmas and a blessed best new year yet.
God Bless Brother
James W

 

[KingJ]

Kj Hello Brother
If I reject your offer on a 410 rear end then you dont get the rear end.

If you reject Jesus you dont get washed in His blood and made able to dwell in Heaven with the Creator. To reject is to refuse and it is just that simple - you dont need to love evil to reject Jesus bro.Every single person born on this earth AFTER THE CROSS is hell bound with out the washing of Christ blood. Now please dont go and use children under the age of accountability or mentally ill and so forth. We are talking about your every day man born of a woman.

The church is full of people who hate evil and do good. They live their life with the notion that God will see they tried to live a good life and did good deeds in His name so they will get in. That is sad and not true for the only way to the Father is through Jesus and you know this.

All men thanks to the first adam are born into sin. This sin is our ticket to hell or sepperation from God but we can accept Jesus our Christ as our Lord and change that destination. Simply put KJ - we are born on a train going south and Jesus came and brought a new ticket that we all can have that will put us on the Rightious train going north - that is if we pay the price for the ticket which is simply giving up our life and taking on the Life Jesus purchased for us. Simple enough ? LOL

I pray that you and your family KJ have a very Merry and Blessed Christmas and a blessed best new year yet.
God Bless Brother
James W

So much to say and so much has already been discussed on this with you. I am just going to ask two questions:

1. If Jesus never died, do you believe we would all be in hell / in torment for all eternity? Rich man and Lazarus. Abel and Cain. Pope and Stalin. Wired 4 fishen and Nero.

2. When you got married did you say '' Blonde and blue eyes.... sold''? Or did you examine her for how she treats orphans and widows in need, her parents, her grandparents...?

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Rom 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[B-A-C]

1. If Jesus never died, do you believe we would all be in hell / in torment for all eternity? Rich man and Lazarus. Abel and Cain. Pope and Stalin. Wired 4 fishen and Nero.

Perhaps not hell... First of all hell isn't eternal... it eventually gets cast into the lake of fire.
You have attempted to list some contrasts here....
the Rich man vs Lazarus. The rich man was taken to Hades. Lazarus was taken to Abraham's bosom (Paradise).
Why do you think they were taken to two different places?
The rich man pleads with Abraham... please send Lazarus to my father's house, (and my five brothers)
so that he can warn them, so that they will not end up in this place of torment.
Abraham tells them they have scripture to warn them (Moses and the prophets).
The rich man says... if someone came back from the dead, they would listen to him.
Abraham says... no if they won't listen to Moses and the prophets they won't listen to someone who came back
from the dead.

Lazarus and Abraham were not in torment... even though Jesus hadn't died yet. Still, they were not in heaven yet.

Then you compare Cain and Abel... but even Abel was saved by faith ( Hebrews 11:4; )
Even though Abel is dead... this faith still speaks.
Jesus blood is what saved Abel... not his own. ( Heb 12:24; )

Then you compare the Pope and Stalin... for non-Roman Catholics. It is difficult to see a difference between the two.
But for argument sake... lets assume God says the pope is righteous.
First this is after Jesus's resurrection so things have changed.
Did the Pope believe in Jesus? Most likely yes. Did Stalin believe in Jesus? Most likely no.
Again you are saved by faith.

I won't speak for @Wired 4 Fishien here.

No one went to heaven before Jesus died. (possible exceptions include Enoch and Elijah)
Not even David went to heaven. ( John 3:13; Acts 2:34; ) even Lazarus did not go to heaven.
Jesus told the thief on the cross... you will be with me today is paradise (Abraham's bosom) not heaven.

Now it seems in Eph 4:8-10; that Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom and took those out of captivity there.
But those in Hades... (Nero, the rich man, Stalin, Cain ) are still awaiting a worse judgment.

The thing is.... NO... I repeat NO sin can be in the presence of God.
Not any, not one ounce, not one gram, not one molecule of sin.

Any sin that is not covered by the blood of Jesus is still attached to us.
We get thrown into the lake of fire with our sin.

There can never be... just a little sin that God ignores.
You can take this as God punishing those people... and perhaps He is.
But you can also take it as... He is putting their unwashed sin in a place where He doesn't have to contend with it.

I'm sure you've heard the story about the brownies with just "a little" manure in them.
Would you eat them? How about if you knew the manure was in them?
Many on the earth don't know they are eating (spiritual) manure.
And many that do, seem to be OK with it. (Some churches are teaching that many sins are
OK with God).

But we should be repenting, not making excuses, not trying to redefine what God says sin is.
We all have sinned, we all continue to sin sometimes... but sin separates us from God.
That's why we need to blood of Jesus to cover it. Without that.... no one ever goes to heaven.
No one ever see's the Father

 

[KingJ]

Perhaps not hell... First of all hell isn't eternal... it eventually gets cast into the lake of fire.
You have attempted to list some contrasts here....
the Rich man vs Lazarus. The rich man was taken to Hades. Lazarus was taken to Abraham's bosom (Paradise).
Why do you think they were taken to two different places?
The rich man pleads with Abraham... please send Lazarus to my father's house, (and my five brothers)
so that he can warn them, so that they will not end up in this place of torment.
Abraham tells them they have scripture to warn them (Moses and the prophets).
The rich man says... if someone came back from the dead, they would listen to him.
Abraham says... no if they won't listen to Moses and the prophets they won't listen to someone who came back
from the dead.

Lazarus and Abraham were not in torment... even though Jesus hadn't died yet. Still, they were not in heaven yet.

Then you compare Cain and Abel... but even Abel was saved by faith ( Hebrews 11:4; )
Even though Abel is dead... this faith still speaks.
Jesus blood is what saved Abel... not his own. ( Heb 12:24; )

Then you compare the Pope and Stalin... for non-Roman Catholics. It is difficult to see a difference between the two.
But for argument sake... lets assume God says the pope is righteous.
First this is after Jesus's resurrection so things have changed.
Did the Pope believe in Jesus? Most likely yes. Did Stalin believe in Jesus? Most likely no.
Again you are saved by faith.

I won't speak for @Wired 4 Fishien here.

No one went to heaven before Jesus died. (possible exceptions include Enoch and Elijah)
Not even David went to heaven. ( John 3:13; Acts 2:34; ) even Lazarus did not go to heaven.
Jesus told the thief on the cross... you will be with me today is paradise (Abraham's bosom) not heaven.

Now it seems in Eph 4:8-10; that Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom and took those out of captivity there.
But those in Hades... (Nero, the rich man, Stalin, Cain ) are still awaiting a worse judgment.

The thing is.... NO... I repeat NO sin can be in the presence of God.
Not any, not one ounce, not one gram, not one molecule of sin.

Any sin that is not covered by the blood of Jesus is still attached to us.
We get thrown into the lake of fire with our sin.

There can never be... just a little sin that God ignores.
You can take this as God punishing those people... and perhaps He is.
But you can also take it as... He is putting their unwashed sin in a place where He doesn't have to contend with it.

I'm sure you've heard the story about the brownies with just "a little" manure in them.
Would you eat them? How about if you knew the manure was in them?
Many on the earth don't know they are eating (spiritual) manure.
And many that do, seem to be OK with it. (Some churches are teaching that many sins are
OK with God).

But we should be repenting, not making excuses, not trying to redefine what God says sin is.
We all have sinned, we all continue to sin sometimes... but sin separates us from God.
That's why we need to blood of Jesus to cover it. Without that.... no one ever goes to heaven.
No one ever see's the Father

This is the second time you are jumping on hell not being lake of fire. Yes, you are correct. But it is a non issue as the unsaved plus many Christians refer to lake of fire as hell.

I agree with the rest of your post. But you are still missing my point and it is such a simple one. Namely....we cannot say that sin gets us into hell. We cannot say that hell is the default location for those with sin. Jesus saves nobody from hell. All en route there are en route there because they love what is evil > hating it. That is rejecting Jesus.

Rejecting Jesus is not 'literally' saying 'I reject you Jesus'. It is keeping the door to our heart closed. That takes effort.

Accepting Jesus is not 'literally' saying 'I accept you Jesus' as Jim proposes. We draw near to God. God then draws near to us.

If Jesus never died..... those that hate what is evil / are after His heart / have faith IN Him (not just '''faith in faith'') would STILL be in an AB / paradise of sort.

 

[KingJ]

Then you compare the Pope and Stalin... for non-Roman Catholics. It is difficult to see a difference between the two.
But for argument sake... lets assume God says the pope is righteous.
First this is after Jesus's resurrection so things have changed.
Did the Pope believe in Jesus? Most likely yes. Did Stalin believe in Jesus? Most likely no.
Again you are saved by faith.

You are learned with Sheol being Hell and not lake of fire but the nuance of faith in ''saved by faith'' is omitted / leaving the reader to assume....simple......brain dead.....positive thinking style....faith is required.

Whenever we talk of Abraham's faith or the faith we need to be saved ...thanks to the popular false teaching in faith churches....us learned scholars....actually DO need to properly explain what we mean / what scripture means. Not leave the reader to assume their positive mental state is what saves someone NT.

It is actually very funny what some today believe. For 1000's of years people had to hate what is evil and cling to what is good. Be afraid of God. But today...we can go to church, chew bubblegum and dance. As long as we say some magical words and recite scripture enough times to brainwash ourselves...into thinking that our positive thoughts is something God really wants ....we are en route to heaven.

Nobody can call Jesus Lord except by the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3. The Holy Spirit only does this (gives us a measure of faith) after our heart and mind has been judged Jer 17:10 and the verdict is not John 3:19.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@KingJ
You are all over the board here in your last three replies.
First of all I said after the cross so none of your examples even matter.
Then you say if Jesus did not die do I beleive we would all be in hell ?
That question does not even deserve an answer - Come on KJ - Jesus came why ? Why did Jesus come ? Why did God send His only begotten son ?

Please stop claiming others and my self say sin sends you to hell. No sin does NOT. Rejecting Jesus is the only reason one goes to hell.

Then KJ you write this .........Nobody can call Jesus Lord except by the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3. The Holy Spirit only does this (gives us a measure of faith) after our heart and mind has been judged Jer 17:10 and the verdict is not John 3:19.

That has got to be your best job at missusing scripture yet. It makes no sense how you put them together and "try" to make them work in such a way.

Then KJ you speak this...............
Accepting Jesus is not 'literally' saying 'I accept you Jesus' as Jim proposes. We draw near to God. God then draws near to us.

Again you are mixing things up and trying to say something that is not in line with the word.
Accepting Jesus as our Lord is getting born again. This must be done before you will ever draw near to God.
To draw close to God is spending time in His word and doing what His woprd says and praying in line with His word. The amount or effort we put forth is the amount we will receive back from Him.

Then KJ you speak this............
us learned scholars....actually DO need to properly explain what we mean / what scripture means.
Brother you would do well to simply spend time alone with God and His word and forget all this educated and brain thinking you boast about time after time.

If this is all you can do is bring scripture and twist it then enjoy for it is your "right" to do so.
Moving on here KJ -
I pray that you and your family KJ have a very Blessed Chritmas and the Best Blessed new year of our Lord 2016.
God Bless my Friend
James W

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ
You are all over the board here in your last three replies.
1. First of all I said after the cross so none of your examples even matter.
2. Then you say if Jesus did not die do I beleive we would all be in hell ?
That question does not even deserve an answer - Come on KJ - Jesus came why ? Why did Jesus come ? Why did God send His only begotten son ?

3. Please stop claiming others and my self say sin sends you to hell. No sin does NOT. Rejecting Jesus is the only reason one goes to hell.

Then KJ you write this .........Nobody can call Jesus Lord except by the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3. The Holy Spirit only does this (gives us a measure of faith) after our heart and mind has been judged Jer 17:10 and the verdict is not John 3:19.

4. That has got to be your best job at missusing scripture yet. It makes no sense how you put them together and "try" to make them work in such a way.

Then KJ you speak this...............
Accepting Jesus is not 'literally' saying 'I accept you Jesus' as Jim proposes. We draw near to God. God then draws near to us.

5. Again you are mixing things up and trying to say something that is not in line with the word.
Accepting Jesus as our Lord is getting born again. This must be done before you will ever draw near to God.
To draw close to God is spending time in His word and doing what His woprd says and praying in line with His word. The amount or effort we put forth is the amount we will receive back from Him.

Then KJ you speak this............
us learned scholars....actually DO need to properly explain what we mean / what scripture means.
Brother you would do well to simply spend time alone with God and His word and forget all this educated and brain thinking you boast about time after time.

6. If this is all you can do is bring scripture and twist it then enjoy for it is your "right" to do so.
Moving on here KJ -
I pray that you and your family KJ have a very Blessed Chritmas and the Best Blessed new year of our Lord 2016.
God Bless my Friend
James W

1. Which post are you referring to?

2. It is quite crazy how we disagree on the simplest things.

3. Good to hear you agree. Your posts are not tying up though. Please re-read your post 6 ... i '' All men thanks to the first adam are born into sin. This sin is our ticket to hell'' and ii ''Every single person born on this earth AFTER THE CROSS is hell bound ''

4. You can't say someone is wrong without an explanation.

5. Why would someone be BA? How does someone become BA? Do they need to memorize scripture for this? Do they need to believe and believe and believe until they actually think they believe...?You need to re-read the scripture given and point you mocked in pt 4.

Do you think God is showing partiality to us in the NT?

6. Twist what? That is a harsh accusation. Can you prove I twisted something?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

1. Which post are you referring to?

2. It is quite crazy how we disagree on the simplest things.

3. Good to hear you agree. Your posts are not tying up though. Please re-read your post 6 ... i '' All men thanks to the first adam are born into sin. This sin is our ticket to hell'' and ii ''Every single person born on this earth AFTER THE CROSS is hell bound ''

4. You can't say someone is wrong without an explanation.

5. Why would someone be BA? How does someone become BA? Do they need to memorize scripture for this? Do they need to believe and believe and believe until they actually think they believe...?You need to re-read the scripture given and point you mocked in pt 4.

Do you think God is showing partiality to us in the NT?

6. Twist what? That is a harsh accusation. Can you prove I twisted something?

KJ Hello,
I hope you have had a wonderful Christmas and made many new memories to cherish over the years to come.

About the reply. I was clear bro - I said in your three post above.
I am not going to get into another useless debate with you on this.
Twist ? was to you saying I or some one says one thing when you can go back and read and see it was not said. Happens when you hurry through.

as to the rest - Brother it is like this.............Have a wonderful day and May God truly and richly bless you and all of us with more and more understanding of His ways.
Talk to you again I am sure..............
God Bless my friend
james