War and Christianity

[californiasun]

So this weekend, once again I had to sit thru more stories from my father-in-law to be, especially regarding how decadent today's society has gotten. They are devout christians, or at least claim to be. After weeks of dealing with this with smiles and jokes, I decided to toss one back at the ol' man. Asked him what he thought of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I was utterly surprised at what I heard as an answer - I thought Christianity lay a lot of emphasis on forgiveness, and peace. I'll explain more on what his views were, but first i'd like to hear from Christians here if they think the same way too. What is your opinion on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you have any family involved in them?

 

[El Hombre viejo]

So this weekend, once again I had to sit thru more stories from my father-in-law to be, especially regarding how decadent today's society has gotten. They are devout christians, or at least claim to be. After weeks of dealing with this with smiles and jokes, I decided to toss one back at the ol' man. Asked him what he thought of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I was utterly surprised at what I heard as an answer - I thought Christianity lay a lot of emphasis on forgiveness, and peace. I'll explain more on what his views were, but first i'd like to hear from Christians here if they think the same way too. What is your opinion on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you have any family involved in them?

Would you have the world sit on their hands as Islam declares war on us?

 

[HumbledByGrace]

How is our foreign policy justified?

We have to ask ourselves why are we over there? Iraq, for one, had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq prior to our invasion… Saddam Hussein did not want anybody competing with him for power...


I personally, am against all these unethical, unconstitutional wars. If you were to have asked me this question two years ago, I would have been all for them. I used to be your typical Neoconservative Republican who believed that our actions were justified because the terrorists attacked us due to the fact that America was "Rich and Free". I believe that the mainstream "Christian" view that these wars are justified has really tainted the overall perception of Christianity, and has certainly done us no favors in the Middle East. The Afghan and Iraqi people see our soldiers and contractors as "Christian Americans".. (and yes we are still in Iraq.. Obama pulled the troops out and replaced them with mercinaries..) Needless to say, it doesn't look good when we have 18 year old kids, who have spend their early lifes playing Call of Duty, policing a culture that they do not understand. Our 18 year old kids, who are trained to kill enemies are being forced to be policemen... where could that go wrong? There are people who drive 15 minutes to Langely Virginia, grab the joystick of a predator drone, and drop laser guided bombs on targets in Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya and Somalia, and then drive home for dinner with their kids... For each one of those drone strikes there is an esitmates, 10 Civilians who are killed.. How are you going to feel if your brother is blown up by a bomb?


Saying this will probably anger a lot of good meaning people but... The actions of our government caused 9/11. We were not attacked because we are "rich and free", we were attacked because we have been occupying the Middle East and have been setting up puppet governments for many years prior to 9/11. That said, yes, the hijackers were horrible people.


Our government has not been a follower of the Golden Rule.. I will list a few things that have incited hatred towards America:
In 1953 our government overthrew the first democratically elected Iranian government and installed the Shah, the dictator of Iran (Look up "Operation Ajax"). In 1979 the Iranians overthrew our puppet government and now they have leaders that understandably hate us... Another Reason the Iranians hate us is because during the Iran- Iraq war of the 1980s, we supported Saddam Hussein. We gave him weapons, Intelligence and money to fight the Iranians... Hundreds of thousands of Iranians and Iraqi's were killed in the conflict which was started by Saddam Hussein's invasion of Iran.. During that Conflict, we shot a surface to air missile at an Iranian Passenger airliner that had nearly 300 Iranian civilians on it... all of them were killed. And the commanding officer of the ship that shot the airliner down was given a medal when he returned home..


That is just why the Iranians hate us...

Why do many Iraqi's hate us? Because we propped up Saddam Hussein and many of the weapons we gave him were used on the Iraqi people.. Not to mention our sanctions on Iraq caused the death of an estimated 1 million Iraqis, due to starvation... There were Church groups in the US that actually got in trouble because they tried to send medicine to the Iraqi people..

15 of the hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis. Why do they hate us? Because we have military bases on their land... That was the reason given by Osama Bin Laden. (a Saudi)... By the way.. We had no problem arming Al Qaeda and the Taliban when the Soviet Union was occupying Afghanistan during the 70s.. (Apparently the enemy of my enemy is not my friend)


The Taliban just don't want us on their land... Just like they didn't want the soviets... Or the British... Or almost every other Empire that has occupied Afghanistan at some point. The Afghan government that we propped up is just as bad if not worse than the Taliban.. The Afghan National Air force is using the helicopters we gave them to smuggle Opium... It's a total mess. There is no reason our government should be spending over $500,000,000 in Afghanistan... EACH DAY.

It would be hard for me to find a tyrant in the Middle East, that has not been propped up by our government at some point.. Gaddafi.. Mubarak, Musharaf, the Shah, Saddam.


If we had not been meddling around in their lands, what reason would they have to attack us? It would have been really hard for Bin Laden to convince people to blow themselves up just because some country far away did not implement Sharia law... Why is it that there are no Swiss Flags being burned? Perhaps it's because the Swiss don't meddle in their foreign affairs.


How would we feel if the Chinese government started meddling in our country? What if they set up military bases and propped up our leaders... In Libya, there was a small faction of people that were angry with Gaddafi. Libya had the highest living standards in North Africa... But then our government went in and armed a small faction of people (many of which were Al Qaeda... There is now an Al Qaeda flag flying over the Courthouse in Tripoli) who were mad that Gaddafi wasn't as radical as them... And then we (under the banner of world government) bombed the Libyan military, with many civilians suffering collateral damage. It's a total mess. Also, the news doesn't report this at all, but now that we helped the small faction of radical Muslims in Libya overthrow their government, there is now a massive genocide of black Libyans.. (most of which supported Gaddafi)

And if we are so angry at the Iranians for Having Sharia Law, why don't we get mad at the Saudi's? Women can't drive there, they have almost no rights and they have sharia law.. And the Iraqi government that we just propped up just drafted an Islamic Constitution that will have Sharia Law.. We have been enabling it and Causing it. Apparently we have no Problems with Qatar either.

I am still a Republican.. Just a true libertarian Republican.. In other words, what the Republican Party originally was. Republicans historically have been anti-war. If you think of all our recent wars, most of them were started by Democrats.. World War 1, World War 2, Korea, Vietnam and the Persian Gulf wars were all started by Democrats.. It stemmed from Woodrow Wilson's wilsonian foreign policy where America needed to police the world and make sure the world was looking out for our interests.


I suppose the only true Republican left is Ron Paul... But of course, the media said he is a radical so we have to ignore him.

As for Israel. Yes I support Israel.. But I would not wish foreign aid on my enemies, let alone my friends. Being a Libertarian, I don't view welfare kindly.. Most Republicans think it is bad to give welfare to people at home because it causes dependency, but for some reason it changes when we ship it overseas. The Israeli's are far less efficent because they have become reliant on our subsidies. If they had a free market, they would be far better off, and they wouldn't be so dependent on us. It is theft for the government to take money from one person and give it to others, no matter how you look at it. If we as Individuals would like to give donations to Israel, by all means do it. But the government should not be involved in entangling alliances.. That's what every one of our founding fathers said. Be friends with every nation, have alliances with none, unless we were invaded.

We give about 3 billion dollars in aid to Israel each year... We give 15 billion in aid to the countries surrounding Israel... Perhaps we should just cut off all aid, especially since we have 16 trillion in debt and can't afford it.


Sorry, this is an issue that is very close to my heart.

 

[Boanerges]

So this weekend, once again I had to sit thru more stories from my father-in-law to be, especially regarding how decadent today's society has gotten. They are devout christians, or at least claim to be. After weeks of dealing with this with smiles and jokes, I decided to toss one back at the ol' man. Asked him what he thought of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I was utterly surprised at what I heard as an answer - I thought Christianity lay a lot of emphasis on forgiveness, and peace. I'll explain more on what his views were, but first i'd like to hear from Christians here if they think the same way too. What is your opinion on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you have any family involved in them?

God is Jehovah Saboath- the Lord of Hosts God has never condemned war and in fact has ordered many wars as He has turned the hearts of many a king to go forth into battle.
Many would say 'thou shalt no kill" but that would be based on a poor rendering of kill and a more accurate translation is "thou shalt not murder.
In short, God (biblically) has sent nations to war on a regular basis and never condemns a soldier from doing his (or her) duty.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

We have to ask ourselves why are we over there? Iraq, for one, had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq prior to our invasion… Saddam Hussein did not want anybody competing with him for power...


I personally, am against all these unethical, unconstitutional wars. If you were to have asked me this question two years ago, I would have been all for them. I used to be your typical Neoconservative Republican who believed that our actions were justified because the terrorists attacked us due to the fact that America was "Rich and Free". I believe that the mainstream "Christian" view that these wars are justified has really tainted the overall perception of Christianity, and has certainly done us no favors in the Middle East. The Afghan and Iraqi people see our soldiers and contractors as "Christian Americans".. (and yes we are still in Iraq.. Obama pulled the troops out and replaced them with mercinaries..) Needless to say, it doesn't look good when we have 18 year old kids, who have spend their early lifes playing Call of Duty, policing a culture that they do not understand. Our 18 year old kids, who are trained to kill enemies are being forced to be policemen... where could that go wrong? There are people who drive 15 minutes to Langely Virginia, grab the joystick of a predator drone, and drop laser guided bombs on targets in Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya and Somalia, and then drive home for dinner with their kids... For each one of those drone strikes there is an esitmates, 10 Civilians who are killed.. How are you going to feel if your brother is blown up by a bomb?


Saying this will probably anger a lot of good meaning people but... The actions of our government caused 9/11. We were not attacked because we are "rich and free", we were attacked because we have been occupying the Middle East and have been setting up puppet governments for many years prior to 9/11. That said, yes, the hijackers were horrible people.


Our government has not been a follower of the Golden Rule.. I will list a few things that have incited hatred towards America:
In 1953 our government overthrew the first democratically elected Iranian government and installed the Shah, the dictator of Iran (Look up "Operation Ajax"). In 1979 the Iranians overthrew our puppet government and now they have leaders that understandably hate us... Another Reason the Iranians hate us is because during the Iran- Iraq war of the 1980s, we supported Saddam Hussein. We gave him weapons, Intelligence and money to fight the Iranians... Hundreds of thousands of Iranians and Iraqi's were killed in the conflict which was started by Saddam Hussein's invasion of Iran.. During that Conflict, we shot a surface to air missile at an Iranian Passenger airliner that had nearly 300 Iranian civilians on it... all of them were killed. And the commanding officer of the ship that shot the airliner down was given a medal when he returned home..


That is just why the Iranians hate us...

Why do many Iraqi's hate us? Because we propped up Saddam Hussein and many of the weapons we gave him were used on the Iraqi people.. Not to mention our sanctions on Iraq caused the death of an estimated 1 million Iraqis, due to starvation... There were Church groups in the US that actually got in trouble because they tried to send medicine to the Iraqi people..

15 of the hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis. Why do they hate us? Because we have military bases on their land... That was the reason given by Osama Bin Laden. (a Saudi)... By the way.. We had no problem arming Al Qaeda and the Taliban when the Soviet Union was occupying Afghanistan during the 70s.. (Apparently the enemy of my enemy is not my friend)


The Taliban just don't want us on their land... Just like they didn't want the soviets... Or the British... Or almost every other Empire that has occupied Afghanistan at some point. The Afghan government that we propped up is just as bad if not worse than the Taliban.. The Afghan National Air force is using the helicopters we gave them to smuggle Opium... It's a total mess. There is no reason our government should be spending over $500,000,000 in Afghanistan... EACH DAY.

It would be hard for me to find a tyrant in the Middle East, that has not been propped up by our government at some point.. Gaddafi.. Mubarak, Musharaf, the Shah, Saddam.


If we had not been meddling around in their lands, what reason would they have to attack us? It would have been really hard for Bin Laden to convince people to blow themselves up just because some country far away did not implement Sharia law... Why is it that there are no Swiss Flags being burned? Perhaps it's because the Swiss don't meddle in their foreign affairs.


How would we feel if the Chinese government started meddling in our country? What if they set up military bases and propped up our leaders... In Libya, there was a small faction of people that were angry with Gaddafi. Libya had the highest living standards in North Africa... But then our government went in and armed a small faction of people (many of which were Al Qaeda... There is now an Al Qaeda flag flying over the Courthouse in Tripoli) who were mad that Gaddafi wasn't as radical as them... And then we (under the banner of world government) bombed the Libyan military, with many civilians suffering collateral damage. It's a total mess. Also, the news doesn't report this at all, but now that we helped the small faction of radical Muslims in Libya overthrow their government, there is now a massive genocide of black Libyans.. (most of which supported Gaddafi)

And if we are so angry at the Iranians for Having Sharia Law, why don't we get mad at the Saudi's? Women can't drive there, they have almost no rights and they have sharia law.. And the Iraqi government that we just propped up just drafted an Islamic Constitution that will have Sharia Law.. We have been enabling it and Causing it. Apparently we have no Problems with Qatar either.

I am still a Republican.. Just a true libertarian Republican.. In other words, what the Republican Party originally was. Republicans historically have been anti-war. If you think of all our recent wars, most of them were started by Democrats.. World War 1, World War 2, Korea, Vietnam and the Persian Gulf wars were all started by Democrats.. It stemmed from Woodrow Wilson's wilsonian foreign policy where America needed to police the world and make sure the world was looking out for our interests.


I suppose the only true Republican left is Ron Paul... But of course, the media said he is a radical so we have to ignore him.

As for Israel. Yes I support Israel.. But I would not wish foreign aid on my enemies, let alone my friends. Being a Libertarian, I don't view welfare kindly.. Most Republicans think it is bad to give welfare to people at home because it causes dependency, but for some reason it changes when we ship it overseas. The Israeli's are far less efficent because they have become reliant on our subsidies. If they had a free market, they would be far better off, and they wouldn't be so dependent on us. It is theft for the government to take money from one person and give it to others, no matter how you look at it. If we as Individuals would like to give donations to Israel, by all means do it. But the government should not be involved in entangling alliances.. That's what every one of our founding fathers said. Be friends with every nation, have alliances with none, unless we were invaded.

We give about 3 billion dollars in aid to Israel each year... We give 15 billion in aid to the countries surrounding Israel... Perhaps we should just cut off all aid, especially since we have 16 trillion in debt and can't afford it.


Sorry, this is an issue that is very close to my heart.

Interesting rant but this is only one small facet to the entire mess. You did not mention Islam and its hatred of all that is not Islam, it's hatred of all that speaks of life and health. You did not speak of terrorists that live simply to spread terror. You did not speak of a society that teaches hatred to their children. Hatred of all that is not like them. You did not speak of the greed and lies and control undertaken by all that lead the peoples of both sides of this war you speak of. It makes your view quite unbalanced

 

[HumbledByGrace]

Interesting rant but this is only one small facet to the entire mess. You did not mention Islam and its hatred of all that is not Islam, it's hatred of all that speaks of life and health. You did not speak of terrorists that live simply to spread terror. You did not speak of a society that teaches hatred to their children. Hatred of all that is not like them. You did not speak of the greed and lies and control undertaken by all that lead the peoples of both sides of this war you speak of. It makes your view quite unbalanced

It's not a small facet.. It's the entire reason. Yes Islam is a bigoted, hateful religion, but I highly doubt that we would have a problem with terrorism if we didn't interfere in their politics, economics and lives. Like I said before, why aren't people being terrorized in Switzerland? They are "Rich and Free" and there are a lot of Christians living there. It's Because they have minded their own business.

I'm not even going to say we should turn the other cheek, because our government is the one that preemptively slapped them before they did anything to us. It's like stepping in a bucket of snakes and being surprised that they bite us. We should have never stepped their in the first place. They obviously don't want our culture, and the fact that we are pushing it on them by force is making them hate it even more.

I'm sure a lot of people are worried that if we stop putting pressure on the Middle East and bombing them, they will rise up and attack us. I'm not concerned about that at all. For one our policies create even more hatred against us. We wouldn't be worried about two-bit dictators under a Christian Foreign policy, because we would never have put them into power in the first place.. It wouldn't be easy for Al Qaeda to recruit people to kill us
Also there are two factions of Islam that absolutely hate each other, the Shiites in East and the Sunni’s in the West. They would be far too occupied killing each other than to worry about us. Even if they wanted to attack us militarily, I wouldn't worry because Islamic governments refuse to adopt Free Market principles that allow an economy to thrive. Instead their leaders control ever facet of life, so they can't, by themselves, thrive economically, and live the soviet union, all authoritarian societies will eventually collapse.
Our foreign policy isn't even remotely close to any Christian Principles.

Almost all of the conflicts we are engaged in are the results of blowback from our previous interventions.Why is it that they have never been terrorizing us prior to our occupation and involvement? Yea, the fact that they use terrorism is pretty abhorrent, but before our involvement they were not even willing to go out of their way to attack us.

Finally, if we as Christians are against acts of terror, why are we allowing the government to fund Terrorist groups in Iran that have set off countless car bombs and have killed thousands of civilians?

 

[El Hombre viejo]

It's not a small facet.. It's the entire reason. Yes Islam is a bigoted, hateful religion, but I highly doubt that we would have a problem with terrorism if we didn't interfere in their politics, economics and lives. Like I said before, why aren't people being terrorized in Switzerland? They are "Rich and Free" and there are a lot of Christians living there. It's Because they have minded their own business.

I'm not even going to say we should turn the other cheek, because our government is the one that preemptively slapped them before they did anything to us. It's like stepping in a bucket of snakes and being surprised that they bite us. We should have never stepped their in the first place. They obviously don't want our culture, and the fact that we are pushing it on them by force is making them hate it even more.

I'm sure a lot of people are worried that if we stop putting pressure on the Middle East and bombing them, they will rise up and attack us. I'm not concerned about that at all. For one our policies create even more hatred against us. We wouldn't be worried about two-bit dictators under a Christian Foreign policy, because we would never have put them into power in the first place.. It wouldn't be easy for Al Qaeda to recruit people to kill us
Also there are two factions of Islam that absolutely hate each other, the Shiites in East and the Sunni’s in the West. They would be far too occupied killing each other than to worry about us. Even if they wanted to attack us militarily, I wouldn't worry because Islamic governments refuse to adopt Free Market principles that allow an economy to thrive. Instead their leaders control ever facet of life, so they can't, by themselves, thrive economically, and live the soviet union, all authoritarian societies will eventually collapse.
Our foreign policy isn't even remotely close to any Christian Principles.

Almost all of the conflicts we are engaged in are the results of blowback from our previous interventions.Why is it that they have never been terrorizing us prior to our occupation and involvement? Yea, the fact that they use terrorism is pretty abhorrent, but before our involvement they were not even willing to go out of their way to attack us.

Finally, if we as Christians are against acts of terror, why are we allowing the government to fund Terrorist groups in Iran that have set off countless car bombs and have killed thousands of civilians?

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing



We as Christians have far far more power and authority than any bomb or army. So in this thing you are correct. War does not stop war. Still it takes an active physical force to stand against such behavior of an obsessibe and evil people like the ones trying to destroy everything in their path. Islam is deadly and we cannot sit on our hands my friend. No matter how much we hate violence. When we've got it to do...We do it.

 

[HumbledByGrace]

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing



We as Christians have far far more power and authority than any bomb or army. So in this thing you are correct. War does not stop war. Still it takes an active physical force to stand against such behavior of an obsessibe and evil people like the ones trying to destroy everything in their path. Islam is deadly and we cannot sit on our hands my friend. No matter how much we hate violence. When we've got it to do...We do it.

I don't see how you can find solace in the fact that our government's actions have caused the deaths of millions of civilians. Millions. How do you justify the fact that we put dicators like Saddam in power?This is totally wrong. If anybody had a legitamate reason for war, it would be the people whose countries are currently occupied by our military.

"Islam is deadly and we cannot sit on our hands my friend." I agree. Islam is deadly. But why is it that Christians in nations that don't attack the Middle East are not being terrorized?

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I don't see how you can find solace in the fact that our government's actions have caused the deaths of millions of civilians. Millions. How do you justify the fact that we put dicators like Saddam in power?This is totally wrong. If anybody had a legitamate reason for war, it would be the people whose countries are currently occupied by our military.

"Islam is deadly and we cannot sit on our hands my friend." I agree. Islam is deadly. But why is it that Christians in nations that don't attack the Middle East are not being terrorized?

I find no solace in the evils done by our government. I'm fully aware of the power brokers in governments all over the planet. These people are only pawns in a game of one upsmanship that has gone on for as long as man has had his own governments.
The fact is that Islam is the main antagonist. The United States has a history of only going into a country by invitation, the exception in a case of war. For example the US was invited to 'help out' in Vietnam. Well we know how that turned out. Was the US the only one involved? No. The Vietnam conflict starter right after the second world war. You probably know that. Since then the countries involved were France; United States; South Korea; the Soviet Union; the United Kingdom; Peoples Republic of China (mainland China); Republic of China (Taiwan); Australia; New Zealand; the Philippines; North Korea; Cuba; Canada; Poland; India; Laos; Cambodia; Thailand
Yet it's only the US that catches the flack for it. Go figure.
Iraq. Did you know that there were thirty six countries involved? Desert Storm and the other wars there? Why do you get all over our country and no other?
I'd venture to say you're simply spitting out words to see how they splatter.
I find your talk against our country highly offensive. I'm done discussing this with you. Lets try some subject where you actually know something.

 

[Boanerges]

I don't see how you can find solace in the fact that our government's actions have caused the deaths of millions of civilians. Millions. How do you justify the fact that we put dicators like Saddam in power?This is totally wrong. If anybody had a legitamate reason for war, it would be the people whose countries are currently occupied by our military.

"Islam is deadly and we cannot sit on our hands my friend." I agree. Islam is deadly. But why is it that Christians in nations that don't attack the Middle East are not being terrorized?

It is a fact that more Christians are being martyred today than at any time in history and most of that by muslims.

Muslims are killing people in virtually every corner of the planet. Try going to the Voice of the Martyrs and you will easily view some of their handiwork.


Those numbers (from the quote) are outrageously skewed. and are inflated well any realistic estimate. If you want to see real death let these evil governments have their way- Hitler could have been easily stopped in the early stages of WW2 but the appeasers like Nevile Chamberlain kept "talking and making deals" while Germany prepared to burn the world - the result was an estimated 50 to 70 million killed.

And, in the 200 years of our history the USA has freed more people that the rest of the world in its combined history. God bless America.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

It is a fact that more Christians are being martyred today than at any time in history and most of that by muslims.

Muslims are killing people in virtually every corner of the planet. Try going to the Voice of the Martyrs and you will easily view some of their handiwork.


Those numbers (from the quote) are outrageously skewed. and are inflated well any realistic estimate. If you want to see real death let these evil governments have their way- Hitler could have been easily stopped in the early stages of WW2 but the appeasers like Nevile Chamberlain kept "talking and making deals" while Germany prepared to burn the world - the result was an estimated 50 to 70 million killed.

And, in the 200 years of our history the USA has freed more people that the rest of the world in its combined history. God bless America.

AMEN!!!!!! In spite of its faults the United States is still a wonderful country

 

[HumbledByGrace]

I find no solace in the evils done by our government. I'm fully aware of the power brokers in governments all over the planet. These people are only pawns in a game of one upsmanship that has gone on for as long as man has had his own governments.
The fact is that Islam is the main antagonist. The United States has a history of only going into a country by invitation, the exception in a case of war. For example the US was invited to 'help out' in Vietnam. Well we know how that turned out. Was the US the only one involved? No. The Vietnam conflict starter right after the second world war. You probably know that. Since then the countries involved were France; United States; South Korea; the Soviet Union; the United Kingdom; Peoples Republic of China (mainland China); Republic of China (Taiwan); Australia; New Zealand; the Philippines; North Korea; Cuba; Canada; Poland; India; Laos; Cambodia; Thailand
Yet it's only the US that catches the flack for it. Go figure.
Iraq. Did you know that there were thirty six countries involved? Desert Storm and the other wars there? Why do you get all over our country and no other?
I'd venture to say you're simply spitting out words to see how they splatter.
I find your talk against our country highly offensive. I'm done discussing this with you. Lets try some subject where you actually know something.

Why is America the Great Satan to Islam? Why isn't Switzerland, a country that the founders studied when designing a good foreign policy?

Of course America isn't the only country in the wrong... I am simply talking about America because we are supposed to be better than this! It's a shame that we are now saying, well the French, British and Soviets fought there... See we are not so bad. This nation was supposed to be a beacon of light above the fray. It was supposed to not get involved in the wars of intrique, even when the wars were close to our heart.

How can we provide a good image of freedom when we are strapped to the hilt as the largest debtor nation in the world, when the police are shutting down lemonaide stands because 6 year olds don't have a permit, when elderly women are being molested at the airport?.. When President Obama can assasinate US citizens and take over any business or home under the guise of Security. When the US military can now be used as a police force with the suspension of the Posse Comitatus Act... When our government can now search every one of us, without a warrant...

I suppose if America was attacked on 9/11 because we were "rich and free", the solution to that problem was to go trillions into debt and give up our remaining freedoms. In that case, the Muslims have already acheived their objective.

 

[HumbledByGrace]

It is a fact that more Christians are being martyred today than at any time in history and most of that by muslims.

Muslims are killing people in virtually every corner of the planet. Try going to the Voice of the Martyrs and you will easily view some of their handiwork.


Those numbers (from the quote) are outrageously skewed. and are inflated well any realistic estimate. If you want to see real death let these evil governments have their way- Hitler could have been easily stopped in the early stages of WW2 but the appeasers like Nevile Chamberlain kept "talking and making deals" while Germany prepared to burn the world - the result was an estimated 50 to 70 million killed.

And, in the 200 years of our history the USA has freed more people that the rest of the world in its combined history. God bless America.

Our Country, as it was intended, was not supposed to get involved in the foreign affairs of other nations. The Founders of this nation were VERY clear on that.

"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare"- James Madison

"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to domestic nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible..."
- George Washington

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land it will be the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - James Madison

"America has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights.
She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own.
She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.
She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right.
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.
But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.
She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.
She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.
She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.
The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....
She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit...." - John Quincy Adams

"War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few." - James Madison

I could pull up many, many more quotes from the founders who created this Nation on Christian Principles. They did not want us to get involved, they wanted us to remain neutral, much like the Swiss.

This is NOT ISOLATIONISM. It is Non-Interventionism.
Did Non-Interventionism cause World War 2? No.. Because America was Intervening all over the place.. Prior to World War 1 there were many wars in Europe that often ended in stalemate.. It is obvious that World War 1 would have ended soon, due to the fact that both sides were stalled in the trenches and couldn't move.. Then The radical progressive Woodrow Wilson, who ran for president promising Americans he wouldn't get us into World War 1, got us involved... He did this because America was outraged at the German Torpedoing of the RMS Lusitania which had many Americans on board... The interesting thing about the Lusitania is that the Germans clearly warned that if it entered the territory of unrestricted submarine warfare around Britain, it would probably get destroyed... Another interesting tidbit is that recently divers searched the Lusitania and on board they found Ammunition that we were shipping to the British. But Woodrow Wilson with the help of the newspapers who supported him, was able to hoodwink the American people into supporting US involvement in World War 1. Our entry tipped the balance of power in favor of the allies, and Germany was left with the full cost of the war... This tanked the German economy, and provided the ripe conditions for a tyrant like Hitler to take power.



During World War 2, were we neutral? No.. We were giving weapons, money and aid to the Chinese, Russians, French and British through the lend lease. The reason the Japanese attacked us was because we were their major supplier of oil and we cut off their supply. Why would they randomly attack us? Also, most people are not aware of this, but 1 week prior to the Pearl Harbor attacks the Australians gave us word that a Japanese fleet was moving towards Hawaii...

This concept is called blowback, which the CIA acknowledges. Had we not gone involved in World War 1, Hitler wouldn’t have come to power because the German’s wouldn’t have been loaded with the entire cost of World War 1. Then we are forced to go into World War 2, to clean up the mess we helped cause… While we were in World War 2 we were helping the Soviet Union, who at the same time was murdering millions of its own people and shipping millions more to gulags.

Also, keep in mind, there were many Jewish people who fled Germany and came to America by boat… FDR turned them away. What a hero.

 

[Boanerges]

Why is America the Great Satan to Islam? Why isn't Switzerland, a country that the founders studied when designing a good foreign policy?

In fact is only one main reason:
1. We support Israel.

The muslims have a saying : first Saturday (kill all the Jews, and then Sunday (kill all the Christians). They are currently murdering people in almost every nation in Africa, in Russia, In China, in India, In Pakistan, in Great Briton, in the Philippines and the list could go on endlessly.

 

[Boanerges]

Our Country, as it was intended, was not supposed to get involved in the foreign affairs of other nations. The Founders of this nation were VERY clear on that.

"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare"- James Madison

"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to domestic nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible..."
- George Washington

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land it will be the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - James Madison

"America has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights.
She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own.
She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.
She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right.
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.
But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.
She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.
She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.
She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.
The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....
She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit...." - John Quincy Adams

"War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few." - James Madison

I could pull up many, many more quotes from the founders who created this Nation on Christian Principles. They did not want us to get involved, they wanted us to remain neutral, much like the Swiss.

This is NOT ISOLATIONISM. It is Non-Interventionism.
Did Non-Interventionism cause World War 2? No.. Because America was Intervening all over the place.. Prior to World War 1 there were many wars in Europe that often ended in stalemate.. It is obvious that World War 1 would have ended soon, due to the fact that both sides were stalled in the trenches and couldn't move.. Then The radical progressive Woodrow Wilson, who ran for president promising Americans he wouldn't get us into World War 1, got us involved... He did this because America was outraged at the German Torpedoing of the RMS Lusitania which had many Americans on board... The interesting thing about the Lusitania is that the Germans clearly warned that if it entered the territory of unrestricted submarine warfare around Britain, it would probably get destroyed... Another interesting tidbit is that recently divers searched the Lusitania and on board they found Ammunition that we were shipping to the British. But Woodrow Wilson with the help of the newspapers who supported him, was able to hoodwink the American people into supporting US involvement in World War 1. Our entry tipped the balance of power in favor of the allies, and Germany was left with the full cost of the war... This tanked the German economy, and provided the ripe conditions for a tyrant like Hitler to take power.



During World War 2, were we neutral? No.. We were giving weapons, money and aid to the Chinese, Russians, French and British through the lend lease. The reason the Japanese attacked us was because we were their major supplier of oil and we cut off their supply. Why would they randomly attack us? Also, most people are not aware of this, but 1 week prior to the Pearl Harbor attacks the Australians gave us word that a Japanese fleet was moving towards Hawaii...

This concept is called blowback, which the CIA acknowledges. Had we not gone involved in World War 1, Hitler wouldn’t have come to power because the German’s wouldn’t have been loaded with the entire cost of World War 1. Then we are forced to go into World War 2, to clean up the mess we helped cause… While we were in World War 2 we were helping the Soviet Union, who at the same time was murdering millions of its own people and shipping millions more to gulags.

Also, keep in mind, there were many Jewish people who fled Germany and came to America by boat… FDR turned them away. What a hero.

A few thoughts:

The concept on "non interventionism definitely allowed the start of WW2.

Had we not gone into WW1 all of Europe (and eventually us) would all be speaking German today.

The founding fathers were definitely not warmongers on that we agree, but they did see the eventual need and that is why they designed the War Powers Act.

Like the Obamaination that makes desolate, FDR was a socialist.

From the earliest day Christians have made excellent soldiers. Ceaser's best legions were Christians because they were absolutely fearless.

God never condemns war or soldiering and in fact historically sends armies to war.

 

[HumbledByGrace]

A few thoughts:

The concept on "non interventionism definitely allowed the start of WW2.

Had we not gone into WW1 all of Europe (and eventually us) would all be speaking German today.

The founding fathers were definitely not warmongers on that we agree, but they did see the eventual need and that is why they designed the War Powers Act.

Like the Obamaination that makes desolate, FDR was a socialist.

From the earliest day Christians have made excellent soldiers. Ceaser's best legions were Christians because they were absolutely fearless.

God never condemns war or soldiering and in fact historically sends armies to war.

We obviously don't agree on who the founders of this nation are... I believe the founders were around during the late 1700s not the 1940s. The War Powers Act was created in 1941 under the Radical Progressive FDR, who you just said you don't like. That only proves my point. The only reason it didn't get shot down by the Supreme court was because FDR packed the courts with his radical chronies who supported his worthless foreign policy.

The foreign policy of this nation shifted in the 1920s-Present, from a beacon of light to a forceful nation that has tried to force our values on people... You have to understand that the foreign policy we have was crafted by the likes of Woodrow Wilson and FDR so the Federal government could grab even more power...

Saying that the Germans would have won World War 1 is far fetched... It was a total stalemate. That is what Trench warfare is. They were about to have a treaty prior to our involvement, and then we stepped in and tipped the scales, forcing the Germans to suffer the full consequences of the war. This pushed them into economic turmoil. People were pushing wheelbarrels full of worthless money. Hitler rose to power and blamed their problems on the Jews..

Yea, if the US had not faught in World War two, the Soviets would probably have fully taken over Europe after they steamrolled their way through Germany...

The only real time we ever had a Just battle with the Muslims was when we faught the Barbary Pirates. They were actually sinking our merchant ships. In fact the whole purpose of the United States Navy was to protect our Merchant ships from being attacked and looted... Not to float offshore and bomb the daylights out of countries that refuse to accomidate our desires. The US Congress granted Marque and Reprisal and declared war on anybody who attacked our Merchant ships... Why do we have to bypass the Constitution now? Why is it that we can no longer declare war like the Constitution mandates? We haven't declared war since World War 2...

"God never condemns war or soldiering and in fact historically sends armies to war." God never condemned wars of self defence. I have no doubt that God frowned upon the wars for power that the Soviets, Germans and even the United States have engaged in since Woodrow Wilson and FDR tainted this nation's heritage.

 

[HumbledByGrace]

In fact is only one main reason:
1. We support Israel.

The muslims have a saying : first Saturday (kill all the Jews, and then Sunday (kill all the Christians). They are currently murdering people in almost every nation in Africa, in Russia, In China, in India, In Pakistan, in Great Briton, in the Philippines and the list could go on endlessly.

I don't view what we are doing as support for Israel. We are giving them welfare, that makes them dependent on us. Foreign welfare is no different than domestic welfare. I wouldn't wish welfare on my worst enemy let alone my best friend... We shouldn't be forcing them to look out for us... How would we feel if the Chinese, who have loaned us trillions of dollars, started forcing us to look out for their interests holding the debt above our head and showing that they have enough leverage to make our lives a lot harder if we don't start doing what is best for them.

Israel is not just one voice by the way... There are multiple political opinions and Israel is very devided on the Issues. The US is propping up the Likud Party which claims to support the free market, but really doesn't. I would Consider them to be partially socialist, because of their support for multiple big government programs. As far as attacked Iran, the former head of Mossad (Kinda like the CIA) said that attacked Iran at this point would be the dumbest thing Israel could do right now.

Our support for Individual groups in foreign nations is horrible. Arming the Syrian Rebels and the Libyan Rebels (many of which were Al Qaeda) would be like the Chinese giving money and weapons to Occupy Wallstreet... Obviously Occupy Wallstreet does not represent the majority of Americans.
(I HOPE NOT)

I view America much like Rome... We are dictating what Israel does to protect our interests. George W Bush was trying to divide up Israel.. Obama is doing the same... We need to let them do what is best for their own country. If you as an idividual want to volunteer or donate money to Israel, Go for it! The Israeli Defence Force will gladly allow anybody who supports the Israelis to join and fight in the Israeli Military. But the government should not be borrowing money from China and giving it to Israel, or the countries surrounding it... or anywhere for that matter.

When Israel Bombed the Nuclear Reactor in Iraq, guess who was the only person who didn't vote to Condemn Israel in Congress? Ron Paul..

 

[bgsda]

A real Christian will be against war. thats it. Trust in God and pray that they will fix their mess

 

[B-A-C]

Whenever possible be at peace with others.

Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
Matt 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

But is it true God wants peace under any circumstances?
Jesus himself said...

Matt 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division;

Rom 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

The God of peace, crushing??

John 2:13 The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
John 2:14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables.
John 2:15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;
John 2:16 and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Father's house a place of business."

We are even told to be angry, just don't hold a grudge.
Eph 4:26 BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger,

So did the God of peace ever want war?
Num 31:13 Moses and Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the congregation went out to meet them outside the camp.
Num 31:14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the captains of thousands and the captains of hundreds, who had come from service in the war.
Num 31:15 And Moses said to them, "Have you spared all the women?
Num 31:16 "Behold, these caused the sons of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, so the plague was among the congregation of the LORD.
Num 31:17 "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately.

Num 32:20 So Moses said to them, "If you will do this, if you will arm yourselves before the LORD for the war,
Num 32:21 and all of you armed men cross over the Jordan before the LORD until He has driven His enemies out from before Him,
Num 32:22 and the land is subdued before the LORD, then afterward you shall return and be free of obligation toward the LORD and toward Israel, and this land shall be yours for a possession before the LORD.

Deut 20:1 "When you go out to battle against your enemies and see horses and chariots and people more numerous than you, do not be afraid of them; for the LORD your God, who brought you up from the land of Egypt, is with you.
Deut 20:2 "When you are approaching the battle, the priest shall come near and speak to the people.
Deut 20:3 "He shall say to them, 'Hear, O Israel, you are approaching the battle against your enemies today. Do not be fainthearted. Do not be afraid, or panic, or tremble before them,
Deut 20:4 for the LORD your God is the one who goes with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.'

Jos 1:9 "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go."
Jos 1:10 Then Joshua commanded the officers of the people, saying,
Jos 1:11 "Pass through the midst of the camp and command the people, saying, 'Prepare provisions for yourselves, for within three days you are to cross this Jordan, to go in to possess the land which the LORD your God is giving you, to possess it.'"
Jos 1:12 To the Reubenites and to the Gadites and to the half-tribe of Manasseh, Joshua said,
Jos 1:13 "Remember the word which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, saying, 'The LORD your God gives you rest and will give you this land.'
Jos 1:14 "Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle shall remain in the land which Moses gave you beyond the Jordan, but you shall cross before your brothers in battle array, all your valiant warriors, and shall help them,

God told his people to fight many many battles. (over 100 in the OT alone)

Two of the greatest battles in history are mentioned in the NT.

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Rev 16:16 And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.
Rev 17:14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."

God wants peace, but not at the expense of accepting other doctrines or other religions. He is much like parents of small children, they don't necessarily look for trouble, but if you harm their children...

Matt 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

As for the U.S. being involved in so many wars. I agree we are trying to be the moral police of the world, but yet we have some of the worst morals ourselves.
On the other hand, keep in mind, the U.S. was founded on war and would not be a free country without it.

The Bible says there will be wars until the reign of Christ.
Matt 24:6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
Matt 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.

The Bible says the Palestinians and Israel will always fight, so we can have peace talks all we want but...
How many battles did David fight (after Goliath)? Yet The Bible says he was a man after God's own heart. (2Sam 5:19-20)
How about Samson and the Philistines? (Judges 13-16)
Joshua and the battle of Jericho?
Gideon and the Midianites? (Judges 7)

 

[HumbledByGrace]

Great Post from a guy I like at the DownsizedDCFoundation that helps further prove that peace is far superior than war.

He is talking about one of the GOP debates in which the Crowd started booing Ron Paul right when he said we should follow the Golden Rule.

"
"Would Jesus have booed?"
Jesus advocated The Golden Rule. Ron Paul advocated applying The Golden Rule. But the Christian crowd booed the words "golden rule."
Someone committed an error. Was it Jesus? Was it Ron Paul? Or was it the church-going crowd?
Is there any way to defend that crowd without rejecting Jesus?
As I said, maybe I too would have booed in the past. I suspect I would've justified myself as follows . . .

1. The Golden Rule doesn't apply to government, which according to Romans 13 was given the "power of the sword" to "terrorize evildoers."
2. Ron Paul was being naive. These are dangerous Muslim terrorists, and they want to kill innocent Americans. The Golden Rule doesn't apply to Al Qaeda. They will see meekness as weakness and hurt us some more.

Indeed, according to Romans 13, government leaders are to be a terror to evildoers. The "power of the sword" may be required.
But candidate Paul advocates policies that accord perfectly with Romans 13. He admits that war is sometimes necessary. His only caveat is that Congress must first declare it. Mr. Paul argues that this legal impediment helps to ensure that war is pursued rarely and with sufficient cause. This position has the virtue of being consistent with Christian tradition (Just War) and the Constitution.
But is it somehow naive? And if so, was Jesus naive?
Consider what some call the hardest verses in the Bible, Matthew 5:38-42. They come from the Sermon on the Mount . . .

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away."
​

And these thoughts are echoed in Romans 12:17-20 (see also Proverbs 25:21-22) . . .


"17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord. 20 On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."


Is this how we conduct our foreign policy? Is this how we defend ourselves? Or is it possible that Jesus knows more about true security than either our politicians or that Christian crowd in South Carolina?
Didn't our Savior admonish us, AT A MINIMUM, to at least stop for a moment and ponder the following possibility . . .

• that listening to our enemies,
• considering their concerns,
• and treating them always as we would want to be treated,
• even going the extra mile with them

. . . might help them decide that they no longer want to terrorize or attack us? Conversely . . .
Isn't it possible that our hyper-aggressive, vengeful approach has actually created more enemies for us than it has killed? Don't Christ's words strongly suggest that this is not only possible, but probable?
And haven't Christians made this mistake before?

Every good Protestant knows that a lot of harm has been done to the reputation of the church due to crusades and inquisitions. But what American Evangelicals don't seem to know is that in certain other parts of the world the crusades are still underway, AND WE ARE THE CRUSADERS.
Stated differently, millions of Muslims think Christians are not ambassadors of The Gospel (good news). Instead, they view "Christian" America as a military force, intent on occupying and looting.
This problem goes back decades. Our politicians have constantly propped up foreign rulers who are friendly to us, but oppressive and offensive to their people. This has made the American people complicit in the crimes of dictators. It has made people hate us. By contrast . . .
A Golden Rule foreign policy takes note of the actual motives of your enemy, not the made up propaganda ones like, "They hate us because we're free."
Moreover, in the economy of God's Kingdom -- where the last are first, the greatest is the servant, and enemies deserve love -- love is a battle strategy! It's a way to quell your enemies, even to heap coals on their heads.
It's also the parsimonious method of achieving victory. Lives are saved, literally and spiritually. It avoids the killing of innocents, the death of troops, and the destruction of the bodies and minds of war survivors. And the profiteering of bankers and agents of death are all minimized or eliminated.
Having a Golden Rule foreign policy is not a doe-eyed innocent's suggestion that suddenly the lion is now ready to lay with the lamb. It's NOT pacifism. Rather, it's an assertion that there's far more war than there needs to be. It's the faith that a Tower of Babel, full of wise men (politicians), can't accomplish nearly as much with coercive force as can be achieved following God's instructions, from Scripture, with grace.
But what if they STILL want to kill us?
Well, even candidate Paul voted to go after Bin Laden following 9/11. Having a Golden Rule foreign policy doesn't rule out a Congressional declaration of war (something that hasn't happened since 1941). Sometimes, you have to fight.
But the policy of our current leaders, in BOTH parties, is that we should be LOOKING for fights, until every nation is acting in OUR interests. Listen to the words of the other GOP candidates; you'll hear it. In the debates, they've been especially fond of saying that Pakistan and Afghanistan should be looking out for U.S. interests.
How would we feel if some other power was trying to make us look out for them, instead of our own interests? Oh wait: That's The Golden Rule popping up again.
You see, we want to be treated a certain way! Jesus taught us to empathize. He said that we must show AT LEAST equal respect to others. But, as you've already seen, he actually advocated going even further. He said we should consistently treat people even BETTER than they deserve!"


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