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What do we know about how the Bible came to be,.

Reba1

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Mar 8, 2020
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Hoping to have a discussion about the Book part of Scripture. Most all of us here are Christian so we believe the Bible to be the Word of God. Inspired writings Most here will say we have 66 books .
How did these come to be?

What languages were they first written in?

Having read form post for years it is still some what surprising to read what some folks just don't know. We have much knowledge literally at our finger tips these days.
In thinking about starting this thread this simple article from Bible Questions Answered | GotQuestions.org was found to have a lot of info.
 
Question: "Who divided the Bible into chapters and verses? Why and when was it done?"

Answer:
When the books of the Bible were originally written, they did not contain chapter or verse references. The Bible was divided into chapters and verses to help us find Scriptures more quickly and easily. It is much easier to find "John chapter 3, verse 16" than it is to find "for God so loved the world..." In a few places, chapter breaks are poorly placed and as a result divide content that should flow together. Overall, though, the chapter and verse divisions are very helpful.

The chapter divisions commonly used today were developed by Stephen Langton, an Archbishop of Canterbury. Langton put the modern chapter divisions into place in around A.D. 1227. The Wycliffe English Bible of 1382 was the first Bible to use this chapter pattern. Since the Wycliffe Bible, nearly all Bible translations have followed Langton’s chapter divisions.

The Hebrew Old Testament was divided into verses by a Jewish rabbi by the name of Nathan in A.D. 1448. Robert Estienne, who was also known as Stephanus, was the first to divide the New Testament into standard numbered verses, in 1555. Stephanus essentially used Nathan’s verse divisions for the Old Testament. Since that time, beginning with the Geneva Bible, the chapter and verse divisions employed by Stephanus have been accepted into nearly all the Bible versions.
GotQuestions.org
 
That is a hot topic, it might get me “excommunicated”. I did study for about 2-3 years church and the “Canon of Scripture”. And went to the Bible college, name after the man who coined the words we used in our bible, and the flavour of the “KJV” in which is his style of writings.
I don’t think you want to go that route. There is nothing like getting the wrong information by going through the window. You might not like what you see and learn. Especially. If you where of the “Reformed Faith” you would have learning all of these starting as a kid in Sunday school. Time you got in high school you would just about everything. Someone one here I know is most willing to give their version
 
I didn't know the history of chapter and verse before reading this. Helpful information.

I have thought about how the division into chapter and verse affects the way we approach reading the Bible, though.

I wonder if subconsciously it makes us think in terms of tiny units - one or two sentence verses - rather than following the way the broad stories unfold across the span of the books of the Bible.
 
I think sometimes we tend to think of specific verses, rather than the scripture around them and the context they were written in.

There Was a lot bloodshed that put that word into your hands

There was a lot of bloodshed that gave us freedom. In fact our salvation came through bloodshed.

Heb 9:22; And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
 
Seems i always knew chapter and verse were added later . Remembering the why of that, got lost in some where in the last 70+ years :) Totally agree @Hekuran good ol sound bites ! At the same time sue is nice to have the reference points. How often do we read the Books as complete Books ?
 
I think sometimes we tend to think of specific verses, rather than the scripture around them and the context they were written in.



There was a lot of bloodshed that gave us freedom. In fact our salvation came through bloodshed.

Heb 9:22; And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Just imagine this, your quoting from the book of Hebrews, there were great problems with that book, it barely made it in your 66 books and especially the book of James, they fought about putting James in your collections.
But all is well. Far as I am concern, “seek and you will find”. I have tried that on here before. The hounds came after me!:(
 
I'm developing the habit of reading through books from end
I think sometimes we tend to think of specific verses, rather than the scripture around them and the context they were written in.



There was a lot of bloodshed that gave us freedom. In fact our salvation came through bloodshed.

Heb 9:22; And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Yes. For example can all quote John 3:16 from memory, right? But who did Jesus say it to, what part did it play in the conversation, and how does it fit into the larger story of the Gospel According to John? (I admit my own answers to these would be a bit hazy around the edges).
 
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek and there's some Armaic.

I was just looking up the origin of chapters and verses -- Stephen Langton did us a huge favor. Like a libraries' card catalog -- it's organization that helps us find one book amongst hundreds.

Can't imagine Why PloughBoy has such negative attitude towards Scripture. God Chose to give His Word to us. It's Awesome.

I was talking with an individual yesterday and he reminded me that - as life happens -- it's our decision as to how to handle it day by day -- hour by hour. Are we going to allow God to be close to us or not?!

I'm going to be in heaven because I've accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. Period. Same as everyone else. The shed blood of Jesus Christ / His death, burial and bodily resurrection -- all by itself. My own acknowledgment of my need For salvation , my personal acceptance Of and my expressing my thankfulness for it.

And, yes, there were a couple of books that were very debated -- but over time - the contents of Hebrews was seen to have a very Good effect on people's lives. The same with James. People could See the positive affect on the lives of the readers and so it was accepted. And then it can Also be seen how people have torn into Scripture and berated it and turned Against it -- that is satans' working.

The glass half Empty or half Full.

God's Word is the most unique collection of literature as we will ever encounter. It is Alive and Active. It impacts the very core of a person.
 
HOW WE GOT OUR BIBLE
by Charles C. Ryrie

The question of which books belong in the Bible is called the question of the canon. The word canon means rule or measuring rod, and in relation to the Bible it refers to
the collection of books that passed a test of authenticity and authority; it also means that those books are our rule of life. How was the collection made?
The Tests for Canonicity
First of all, it is important to remember that certain books were canonical even before any tests were put to them. That’s like saying some students are intelligent before any
tests are given to them. The tests only prove what is already intrinsically there. In the same way, neither the church nor councils made any book canonical or authentic; either the book was authentic or it was not when it was written. The church or its councils recognized and verified certain books as the Word of God, and in time those so recognized were collected together in what we now call the Bible.
What tests did the church apply?
(1) There was the test of the authority of the writer. In relation to the Old Testament, this meant the authority of the lawgiver or the prophet or the leader in Israel.
In relation to the New Testament, a book had to be written or backed by an apostle in order to be recognized. In other words, it had to have an apostolic signature or apostolic authorization. Peter, for instance, was the backer of Mark, and Paul of Luke.
(2) The books themselves should give some internal evidences of their unique character, as inspired and authoritative. The content should commend itself to the
reader as being different from an ordinary book in communicating the revelation of God.
(3) The verdict of the churches as to the canonical nature of the books was important. There was in reality surprising unanimity among the early churches as to which
books belonged in the inspired number. Although it is true that a few books were temporarily doubted by a minority, no book whose authenticity was doubted by any large number of churches was later accepted.
The Formation of the Canon
The canon of Scripture was, of course, being formed as each book was written, and it was complete when the last book was finished. When we speak of the “formation” of
the canon we actually mean the recognition of the canonical books by the church. This took time. Some assert that all the books of the Old Testament canon were collected and recognized by Ezra in the fifth century B.C. References by Josephus (A.D. 95) and in 2 Esdras 14 (A.D. 100) indicate the extent of the Old Testament canon as the thirty-nine books we know. The discussions by the teaching-house at Jamnia (A.D. 70—100) seemed to assume this existing canon. Our Lord delimited the extent of the canonical books of the Old Testament when He accused the scribes of being guilty of slaying all the prophets God had sent Israel, from Abel to Zechariah (Luke 11:51). The account of Abel’s death is, of course, in Genesis; that of Zechariah is in 2 Chronicles 24:20-21, which is the last book in the order of the books in the Hebrew Bible (not Malachi as in our English Bibles). Therefore, it is as if the Lord had said, “Your guilt is recorded all through the Bible—from Genesis to Malachi.” And He did not include any of the apocryphal books that were in existence at that time and which contained the accounts of other martyrs. While these book are of value, the canonizers of the period felt that they "did not reveal the divine nature of God". The first church council to list all twenty-seven books of the New Testament was the Council of Carthage in A.D. 397. Individual books of the New Testament were acknowledged as Scripture before this time (2 Pet 3:16 nd 1 Tim 5:17, and most were accepted in the era just after the apostles (Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John and Jude were debated for some time). The selection of the canon was a process that went on until each book proved its own worth by passing the tests of canonicity. The twelve books of the Apocrypha were never accepted by the Jews or by our Lord on a par with the books of the Old Testament. They were revered but were not considered Scripture. They had historical value, but none were recognized to reveal the divine nature of God. The Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament done in the third century B.c.) included the Apocrypha with the Old Testament canonical books. Jerome (ca. Ail 340—420) in translating the Vulgate distinguished the canonical books from the ecclesiastical books (the Apocrypha), which had the effect of according them a secondary status. The Council of Trent (1548) recognized them as canonical, though the Reformers rejected this decree. In our English Bibles the Apocrypha was set apart in the Coverdale, Geneva, and King James versions. The first English Bible to exclude it entirely as a matter of policy was an Amsterdam edition of the Geneva Bible published in 1640, and the first English Bible printed in America (the Aitken Bible, 1782) omitted it.
Is Our Present Text Reliable?
The original copies of the Old Testament were written on leather or papyrus from the time of Moses (ca. 1450 B.c.) to the time of Malachi (400 B.C.). Until the sensational discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947 we did not possess copies of the Old Testament earlier than Ail 895. The reason for this is simply that the Jews had an almost superstitious veneration for the text, which impelled them to bury copies that had become too old for use. Indeed, the Masoretes (traditionalists), who between Ail 600 and 950 added accents and vowel points and in general standardized the Hebrew text, devised complicated safeguards for the making of copies. They checked each copy carefully by counting the middle letter of pages, books, and sections. Someone has said that every thing countable was counted. When the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, they gave us a Hebrew text from the second to first century B.C. of all but one of the books (Esther) of the Old Testament. This was of the greatest importance, for it provided a much earlier check on the accuracy of the Masoretic text, which has now proved to be extremely accurate. Other early checks on the Hebrew text include the Septuagint translation (middle of third century B.C.), the Aramaic Targums (paraphrases and quotes of the Old Testament), quotations in early Christian writers, and the Latin translation of Jerome (A.D. 400) that was made directly from the Hebrew text of his day. All of these give us the data for being assured of having an accurate text of the Old Testament. More than 5,000 manuscripts of the New Testament exist today, which makes the New Testament the best-attested document of all ancient writings. The contrast is quite startling. Not only are there so many copies of the New Testament in existence, but many of them are early. The approximately seventy-five papyri fragments date from Ail 135 to the eighth century and cover parts of twenty-five of the twenty-seven books and about 40 percent of the text. The many hundreds of parchment copies include the great Codex Sinaiticus (fourth century), the Codex Vaticanus (also fourth century), and the Codex Alexandrinus (fifth century). In addition, there are 2,000 lectionaries (church service books containing many Scripture portions), more than 86,000 quotations of the New Testament in the church Fathers, old Latin Syriac and Egyptian translations dating from the third century, and Jerome's Latin translation. All of the data plus all of the scholarly work that has been done with it assures us that we possess today an accurate and reliable text of the New Testament.
 
That is Very interesting.

There is also a paper-back book called "Why Trust the Bible?" put out by Rose publishing / Bible Basics.
How we got the Bible *Dead Sea Scrolls
Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus
The Gospels: "Lost" & Found
50 Proofs:Old Testament 50 Proofs: New Testament

Some new information to Me that you shared was the Why those manuscripts Had been hidden by the people. I'd wondered Why they had been in the caves in the 1st place. Their discovery definitely being a 'God' thing.
 
Putting the canon together and which books were included and which Not was definitely Not something decided by a man on a whim. Glad you're pointing that out. I'd previously found a list of criterian for that but it had gotten filed away upon moving.
 
No two languages have the same alphabet and each has their own sentence structure - - we can appreciate the knowledge of those who are doing the translating.

It's very hard to read / understand what Is being shared without punctuation.

Translating from a language using sybols rather than letters can be very complicated I would think.
 
This is still going on today. Not just in newer "revisions" of the same Language, but in entirely new languages.

In the English language, I am aware of about 40 or so different versions of the Bible. Some are likely more or less accurate than others.
While one language is difficult enough to keep track of, consider this.

The Wycliffe foundation is constantly translating Bible into hundreds of languages that have never had a Bible before.
In some cases, even some languages that were never written languages before.
You have to create (in some cases invent from scratch) an alphabet, punctuation, and grammar rules for an entirely new written languages that never existed before.
Now once you have all that foundation settled. Translate the Bible to that language.
 
God gifts people to do translation work. They are led by the Holy Spirit. The only 'problem' comes from those who don't like what God's Word says. No matter What language it's read in.

It's human nature to want to be our own boss. When told 'No' -- the natural response is to ask Why and then want the answer to change to 'Yes'
 
Got an unexpected email from an old friend today. I can't tell you where he is, it is a heavily Muslim place.
He went there before my oldest daughter was born, she is married (divorced) with children now.

Here it is about 25 years later. They just published a New Testament for the first time in that language, that didn't even exist in written form 25 years ago.
It just dawned on me. Putting a Bible together.... a team of dozens of people. (Some here in the US) putting this all together.
Have literally spent a lifetime. Most of their entire last 25 years doing this. A this is just one Bible for one language.

I wonder what the reward in heaven is, for something like that?
 
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