- Joined
- Jun 19, 2008
- Messages
- 5,740
When a dear friend or loved one dies unsaved....
Where is the hope?
Where is the comfort ?
Where is the hope?
Where is the comfort ?
When there is no hope........
- Thread starter Fragrant Grace
- Start date
Brad Huber
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2012
- Messages
- 4,419
You only know that he died unsaved, if you heard him curse God, or deny His existence just moments before he died. Assuming you are not sure of this, hope for the best. I trust in God's mercies when it comes to my brother who committed suicide and I am not sure he was a believer. He knew about God, he just never cared about a higher purpose for us. But I didnt know him well as we didnt spend much time together as adults, so I hope and trust in God's wisdom.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2008
- Messages
- 5,740
Thank you brother @Brad Huber
Yes the Lord is merciful and not willing that any should perish.
And your message reminds me of the dying thief on the cross.
The Lord knew my dear friends heart...and the Lord does all things righteously and well.
It just hurts at the moment.
Yes the Lord is merciful and not willing that any should perish.
And your message reminds me of the dying thief on the cross.
The Lord knew my dear friends heart...and the Lord does all things righteously and well.
It just hurts at the moment.
Curtis
Loyal
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2015
- Messages
- 4,392
What we do not want to do is evil, so that good may come out of it. (Romans 3:8) In this case "lie" so someone might be "comforted" by our lie.
Being a Christain we already know what happens to the unsaved when they die, but what we do not know are the prayers of those who are approaching death.
You mentioned the "thief" on the cross which is a good example. If his words were not written down in the Gospels we would have never known his destiny.
God hears the prayers of those seeking deliverance even if they are not heard by anyone else.
One thing we already know for sure is that the Lord God is just in everything he does. He is never unfair.
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live.”
If God takes no pleasure in the death of anyone, it would not be unthinkable that his Saints would feel the same since he is living inside of us.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2008
- Messages
- 5,740
Greetings,
I have been thinking and praying about the sadness you have been going through.
I had to wonder, the Lord loves you and me and hears our prayers. This i know you know, as i do. I take some comfort knowing that He also says not one word of His will return void (to Him) .
As no doubt you prayed for your friend over the years, I am comforted to think that my God would hold such prayers for the souls of lost people possibly higher than any other that we may ask of Him, if and when i consider the cost in sending His Son that Life may be where there was death.
The Lord knows your friend and all his life and I know also that the Lord, He is just and Judgement is His, not ours.
We sit back and cast too much judgement about the destiny of all those who do not appear to believe (especially as we do) but i say unto you, take comfort in His Love and not your own, nor that of any other.
In all these things we can also be awakened afresh to press on, to make His Name known and do all we can in His power and grace to help others see and know the Lord we know, for He is faithful.
And, in all things know this also, that His Peace be with you at this time
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Matthew 5:4
Below are a couple of songs for you. May they be of some small comfort to you Sister,
Bless you ....><>
-----------------------------------
God of all comfort - I need your help right now.
I’ve never ever found you to fail.
God of all comfort - I know you’ll help somehow,
When I have the will, you always have the way.
Well, you know I always needed you.
I needed you so much.
I always needed you, and the comfort of your touch.
And now, now I want to thank you –
Though to thank you ain’t enough.
I want to thank you for the comfort, comfort of your love.
I want to thank you for the comfort of your love.
God of all comfort I need to take your hand
I’ve always found your arm so strong to save.
God of all comfort I know you’ll take my hand,
When I need you to, you bring me through again.
Well, you know I always needed you.
I needed you so much.
I always needed you, and the comfort of your touch.
And now, now I want to thank you –
Though to thank you ain’t enough.
I want to thank you for the comfort, comfort of your love.
I want to thank you for the comfort of your love.
Oh the comfort of – comfort of your love.
Dave Andrews - Comfort Of Love
------------------
I have been thinking and praying about the sadness you have been going through.
I had to wonder, the Lord loves you and me and hears our prayers. This i know you know, as i do. I take some comfort knowing that He also says not one word of His will return void (to Him) .
As no doubt you prayed for your friend over the years, I am comforted to think that my God would hold such prayers for the souls of lost people possibly higher than any other that we may ask of Him, if and when i consider the cost in sending His Son that Life may be where there was death.
The Lord knows your friend and all his life and I know also that the Lord, He is just and Judgement is His, not ours.
We sit back and cast too much judgement about the destiny of all those who do not appear to believe (especially as we do) but i say unto you, take comfort in His Love and not your own, nor that of any other.
In all these things we can also be awakened afresh to press on, to make His Name known and do all we can in His power and grace to help others see and know the Lord we know, for He is faithful.
And, in all things know this also, that His Peace be with you at this time
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Matthew 5:4
Below are a couple of songs for you. May they be of some small comfort to you Sister,
Bless you ....><>
-----------------------------------
God of all comfort - I need your help right now.
I’ve never ever found you to fail.
God of all comfort - I know you’ll help somehow,
When I have the will, you always have the way.
Well, you know I always needed you.
I needed you so much.
I always needed you, and the comfort of your touch.
And now, now I want to thank you –
Though to thank you ain’t enough.
I want to thank you for the comfort, comfort of your love.
I want to thank you for the comfort of your love.
God of all comfort I need to take your hand
I’ve always found your arm so strong to save.
God of all comfort I know you’ll take my hand,
When I need you to, you bring me through again.
Well, you know I always needed you.
I needed you so much.
I always needed you, and the comfort of your touch.
And now, now I want to thank you –
Though to thank you ain’t enough.
I want to thank you for the comfort, comfort of your love.
I want to thank you for the comfort of your love.
Oh the comfort of – comfort of your love.
Dave Andrews - Comfort Of Love
------------------
Light the candle on the alter.
Let it flicker. Let it falter.
As a prayer for the darkness to end.
Take the chair by the window.
Watch the sky as the night glows.
And wait for the day to begin.
There’s hope for tomorrow.
There’s joy for the sorrow.
God’s love will shine like the sun.
There’s hope for tomorrow.
There’s joy for the sorrow.
In the light of the world that’s to come.
Dave Andrews - Light The Candle
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2008
- Messages
- 5,740
Thank you brother @Br. Bear
No judgement has been cast in this thread.
Just the lament that a very dear friend has died who was in all appearance "unsaved"
But with the acknowledgement that the Lord alone knows hearts and with reference to the dying thief....
Thank you for the music but please tell me how do songs and music from Dave Andrews make the situation any better when considering a lost soul.
Light the candle on the alter.Let it flicker. Let it falter.
As a prayer for the darkness to end.
Take the chair by the window.
Watch the sky as the night glows.
And wait for the day to begin.
What does that actually mean?
It's like people saying RIP or he's not suffering anymore.
Empty words and false hope.
The only thing that is certain is that our Lord is merciful and He knows all hearts.
He saved the dying thief right at the end.
That is my only hope for my friend.....that he was saved.
Then hear Thou in heaven Thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart Thou knowest; (for Thou, even Thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men; )
1Kings 8:39
Greetings Sister Fragrant Grace,
I would like to assure you and others who have written on this thread that i was not, in any way, referring to any content of the thread or any Member who posted here. It was a generic statement, meaning we, as people generally, can draw conclusions which in effect are a judgement of what we consider definite.
As i have continued to think about this situation I also recall times past when i too have been faced with the same sort of thoughts and questions you have raised here.
I am reminded in the Bible about the reward given (and not lost) to those who offer and give some act of kindness in helping even one of the Lord's children.
I have thought of this over the years [but usually not at the time of a friend passing] as i have seen both in my life and the lives of others i know, when someone who does not profess to be a Christian, but knows i am, has kindly helped and given the same sort of love that we might share between either family members or Christian family members.
And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.
Matthew 10:42
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25:40
and we see again this same sort of loving kindness of God the Father in the account of Abram being 'called' by the LORD
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 12:3
and i share this here with you to encourage you, not to offer empty hope or fluffy thoughts but because i am quite sure that your friend would have, as a true friend does, shown kindness to you and yours, and if what we read in Scripture here has any basis of truth, your friend has his reward, not from you, nor the world, but from Him Who alone is just and Judge of all.
We are considering the Kingdom of God in a way, where, what do we expect but the everlasting manifestation of His Love, the fruit of the loving kindness and mercy we read of all through Scripture.
We see this same principle in the account of Baalam in Numbers 24. Basically, the LORD brought Israel out of Egypt and further declared that those who bless Israel will be blessed as well as the curse for those who curse.
In reference to the 'dying thief', many only see the request to Jesus as the means to what we consider his Salvation, at the last minute. However, there is more to that account that is too often overlooked. Something that we don't often see, but the Lord does, and it is at the heart of man that He looks.
I don't know what your friend thought or spoke regarding the Lord but if we look for a moment at the Account in Luke, we may see that there is a deeper underlying 'reason' and thereby 'justification' in the eyes of the Lord [Who alone is worthy to make any such judgement]
Look with me for a minute:
And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on Him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
But the other answering rebuked him, saying,
Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luke 23:39-41
And so, when i selected those songs, i considered not only the darkness of grief and mourning that i too am familiar with, and the looking for the new day when all tears shall be wiped away, but also the fact that while we can not know the depths of another man's heart, the Lord does know and will judge accordingly.
Many also forget that while we may escape judgement as we recognise and believe in the Lord and in the judgement of God in and through Christ Jesus His Son, Who died for our sin, but not ours only....! but for the sins of the world, there is a time approaching when all will be called before Him. I shall not venture into a deep Bible study here but from what i see in the Bible, there is a trying ahead for all who have not accepted the love of God in His Son.
Do we consider that the coming judgement is only a sentencing to death of all who are called to stand before Him?
Perhaps in those songs i see a glimmer of hope for such as your friend [and mine also who have passed], and that as we trust in the Lord because He has revealed a portion of His love to us, we so ought to press on, with a knowing faith that He is Faithful and worthy to be praised, that He is surely a just King, Who will not overlook the kind deeds shown to any of His Children, such as yourself, and that as we might light a candle, either literally or metaphorically, we not only long for the mercy of God for ourselves and for those we love but for all who are lost, that the Light will rise and awaken those who sleep, that the Lamb Who is the Light, will reign in the New Day, in the New Heaven and Earth that we can expect according to Scripture, according to His faithful promise.
and may i assure you also that i too have grieved, and at times still do, and that in one way or another we might in some way or another do, or have done, as we hear in the song you asked about and
Take the chair by the window.
Watch the sky as the night glows.
And wait for the day to begin.
as we go through our dark night of mourning and thinking of the eternal state of a dear one's soul.
Nobody but the Lord knows what you are going through and while i or others have had similar experiences, only you know how it is for you, but I also know that you know that the Lord also knows your heart and you feelings at present and as we go through the dark night, our 'valley of the shadow of death', as we wait upon the Shepherd of our Souls, we look awaiting for that Day to begin.
Do we take a chair by the window? Not necessarily, but maybe we might look through the window at times, and from memory it can be like looking way beyond, though the window of time, to search out the loving Kindness and comfort of the Lord.
He is faithful.
May you know His comfort , both now and ever, in Jesus name
In the multitude of my thoughts within me Thy comforts delight my soul.
Psalm 94:19
Bless you ....><>
1Kings 8:39
Greetings Sister Fragrant Grace,
I would like to assure you and others who have written on this thread that i was not, in any way, referring to any content of the thread or any Member who posted here. It was a generic statement, meaning we, as people generally, can draw conclusions which in effect are a judgement of what we consider definite.
As i have continued to think about this situation I also recall times past when i too have been faced with the same sort of thoughts and questions you have raised here.
I am reminded in the Bible about the reward given (and not lost) to those who offer and give some act of kindness in helping even one of the Lord's children.
I have thought of this over the years [but usually not at the time of a friend passing] as i have seen both in my life and the lives of others i know, when someone who does not profess to be a Christian, but knows i am, has kindly helped and given the same sort of love that we might share between either family members or Christian family members.
And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.
Matthew 10:42
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25:40
and we see again this same sort of loving kindness of God the Father in the account of Abram being 'called' by the LORD
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 12:3
and i share this here with you to encourage you, not to offer empty hope or fluffy thoughts but because i am quite sure that your friend would have, as a true friend does, shown kindness to you and yours, and if what we read in Scripture here has any basis of truth, your friend has his reward, not from you, nor the world, but from Him Who alone is just and Judge of all.
We are considering the Kingdom of God in a way, where, what do we expect but the everlasting manifestation of His Love, the fruit of the loving kindness and mercy we read of all through Scripture.
We see this same principle in the account of Baalam in Numbers 24. Basically, the LORD brought Israel out of Egypt and further declared that those who bless Israel will be blessed as well as the curse for those who curse.
In reference to the 'dying thief', many only see the request to Jesus as the means to what we consider his Salvation, at the last minute. However, there is more to that account that is too often overlooked. Something that we don't often see, but the Lord does, and it is at the heart of man that He looks.
I don't know what your friend thought or spoke regarding the Lord but if we look for a moment at the Account in Luke, we may see that there is a deeper underlying 'reason' and thereby 'justification' in the eyes of the Lord [Who alone is worthy to make any such judgement]
Look with me for a minute:
And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on Him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
But the other answering rebuked him, saying,
Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luke 23:39-41
And so, when i selected those songs, i considered not only the darkness of grief and mourning that i too am familiar with, and the looking for the new day when all tears shall be wiped away, but also the fact that while we can not know the depths of another man's heart, the Lord does know and will judge accordingly.
Many also forget that while we may escape judgement as we recognise and believe in the Lord and in the judgement of God in and through Christ Jesus His Son, Who died for our sin, but not ours only....! but for the sins of the world, there is a time approaching when all will be called before Him. I shall not venture into a deep Bible study here but from what i see in the Bible, there is a trying ahead for all who have not accepted the love of God in His Son.
Do we consider that the coming judgement is only a sentencing to death of all who are called to stand before Him?
Perhaps in those songs i see a glimmer of hope for such as your friend [and mine also who have passed], and that as we trust in the Lord because He has revealed a portion of His love to us, we so ought to press on, with a knowing faith that He is Faithful and worthy to be praised, that He is surely a just King, Who will not overlook the kind deeds shown to any of His Children, such as yourself, and that as we might light a candle, either literally or metaphorically, we not only long for the mercy of God for ourselves and for those we love but for all who are lost, that the Light will rise and awaken those who sleep, that the Lamb Who is the Light, will reign in the New Day, in the New Heaven and Earth that we can expect according to Scripture, according to His faithful promise.
and may i assure you also that i too have grieved, and at times still do, and that in one way or another we might in some way or another do, or have done, as we hear in the song you asked about and
Take the chair by the window.
Watch the sky as the night glows.
And wait for the day to begin.
as we go through our dark night of mourning and thinking of the eternal state of a dear one's soul.
Nobody but the Lord knows what you are going through and while i or others have had similar experiences, only you know how it is for you, but I also know that you know that the Lord also knows your heart and you feelings at present and as we go through the dark night, our 'valley of the shadow of death', as we wait upon the Shepherd of our Souls, we look awaiting for that Day to begin.
Do we take a chair by the window? Not necessarily, but maybe we might look through the window at times, and from memory it can be like looking way beyond, though the window of time, to search out the loving Kindness and comfort of the Lord.
He is faithful.
May you know His comfort , both now and ever, in Jesus name
In the multitude of my thoughts within me Thy comforts delight my soul.
Psalm 94:19
Bless you ....><>
Greeting again,
may i also add, [although i do not want to turn this thread into a Bible discussion but may one day write about this elsewhere in the forums]
I sometimes wonder about when Jesus was on the cross, He said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." Luke 23:34 (b)
Who was He referring to?
and, what did God, His Father and yours, do with that prayer/request of His Son?
yes, our only certainty is Him
and, please forgive me if my efforts and words written here, to offer some comfort to you, have come across as
Bless you ....><>
may i also add, [although i do not want to turn this thread into a Bible discussion but may one day write about this elsewhere in the forums]
I sometimes wonder about when Jesus was on the cross, He said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." Luke 23:34 (b)
Who was He referring to?
and, what did God, His Father and yours, do with that prayer/request of His Son?
yes, our only certainty is Him
and, please forgive me if my efforts and words written here, to offer some comfort to you, have come across as
Bless you ....><>
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2008
- Messages
- 5,740
Thank you for your further messages @Br. Bear
The post wasn't actually referring to you sorry if you took it personally.
When considering the demise of my dear friend or anyone who may have gone to a lost eternity...........the world brings feel good words of comfort and peace......such as in the song words you shared.
They bring no true hope for a soul already lost.
Through this painful grief the Lord has imparted His peace .............plus a stirring of the heart for those still living to have a more earnest willingness to share the truth.
Spurgeon said
If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for.
I had a collegue. Always ate with him and 3 girls during luch. He didn't believe. He made fun of me marrying in a church. One day I heard he was dead. Later heard he shot himself. One girl said: oh well, he's in heaven. I was like: well I hope so but to be honest I thought he had gone to hell and blocked him out of my mind. Refused to ever think about him again. The night before I had to pray for someone from the office and I didn't know who. I thought someone's grandma was dying or something.
2 years later I had a dream that he came to the lunch room where we were eating. He had new clothes. Green short pants. He told us very happily that he was a christian for 2 years. I held his hand and I cried and said: why did noone tell me? I thought you were dead. Woke up. Looked it up in my old agenda's when he died. It was exactly 2 years to the day.
