Who authorized Sunday worship?

[ServantOfYHWH]

-Removed for lack of Biblical insight on my part, my apologies-

 

[jiggyfly]

John 4:20-24
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

While I am not an advocate of mandating the 1st day of the week for religious liturgy, neither am I an advocate for mandating sabbath ritual or religious liturgy. The sabbath rituals practiced by those under the old covenant were only shadows of what God intended for us under the new covenant, so whether it is Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Independence day, Presidents day, or just plain garbage day, if your going to imitate what was given under the old covenant your still missing it.

 

[ServantOfYHWH]

John 4:20-24
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

While I am not an advocate of mandating the 1st day of the week for religious liturgy, neither am I an advocate for mandating sabbath ritual or religious liturgy. The sabbath rituals practiced by those under the old covenant were only shadows of what God intended for us under the new covenant, so whether it is Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Independence day, Presidents day, or just plain garbage day, if your going to imitate what was given under the old covenant your still missing it.

Jesus never said He was doing away with the Law, If God did away with His law, then He has done away with Himself. Commandments reflect Gods Character.

"For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the LORD, "So shall your descendants and your name remain. And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD" Isaiah 66:22, 23

Did it say in Scripture we're to do away with the Law completely? I am not talking about whether we go to church or not, Jesus never said we don't have to observe the Sabbath (saturday) as Holy. If it has no meaning for us, and it didn't matter, it would not be in the Ten Commandments in the first place. Jesus spoke about the regulations the Jews and rabbi's made on the Sabbath, He never spoke about doing away with it, again if you think I'm wrong please show me scripture where He claims this. I realize we are in the new covenant, but that doesn't mean the ten commandments have absolutely no relevance for us today. I would rather show God how much I LOVE HIS LAW AND DECREES by observing the Sabbath.

-Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Independence day, Presidents day, or just plain garbage day-

Again, where is scripture to back this claim up? God Himself told us which day is Sabbath, by what authority are you saying it doesn't matter when you celebrate the Sabbath? Or if you even choose to AT ALL. Why do you think it is unimportant to obey God?

God gave mankind the Sabbath at the end of creation week. The fourth commandment given at Mt. Sinai was not a new commandment. God said to “remember” the Sabbath … to keep it holy. In truth, not one of the Ten Commandments were new commandments — they all embodied God’s law as given before the creation of the physical world. They embody all of God’s government as it was to be administered at the physical creation and the way it will be administered when Christ returns to establish the kingdom.

The fourth commandment stands out namely because it is the only one that God specifically said to “remember.” And isn’t it interesting that it is the only one that Christianity chooses to “forget.”

Jesus, the apostles, and the early church kept God’s Sabbath on the seventh day of the week. Christ kept it as was his custom (Luke 4:16). He went into the synagogues and taught on the Sabbath day and he went to the Temple to teach during the annual feast days. He didn’t do this just because that would be the place he would find the Jews. Luke tells us he did it because it was his custom.

Following his death and resurrection, we find Paul and the apostles following the same pattern. They went into the synagogues on the Sabbath days to teach of Christ and of the coming kingdom of God. It was also their custom. This continued for the remainder of their lives.

If the Sabbath law was “nailed to the cross” as most Christians and apparently you as well, today believe, then why did the apostles and the early church continue to observe it for so long?

There is not one instance recorded in the New Testament of an apostle keeping Sunday nor is there one instance of an apostle not keeping the Sabbath. The Bible records over eighty Sabbaths that the apostle Paul kept. "If you love me, you will obey what I command." John 14:15

 

[Br. Bear]

Dear sister,

all the laws are nailed there.. to the hands and feet of our Saviour... why talk about the wood that held the nails...? Jesus took it all, it pierced Him... please don't forget this.

If the Lord is as tied up about the Sabbath as some sabbath pushers are, then we have no hope.

Let's talk about Jesus, not one of the things He died for because we were not able to keep.

Bless you,

Br. Bear

ps... Who hath bewitched you?

 

[ServantOfYHWH]

Dear sister,

all the laws are nailed there.. to the hands and feet of our Saviour... why talk about the wood that held the nails...? Jesus took it all, it pierced Him... please don't forget this.

If the Lord is as tied up about the Sabbath as some sabbath pushers are, then we have no hope.

Let's talk about Jesus, not one of the things He died for because we were not able to keep.

Bless you,

Br. Bear

ps... Who hath bewitched you?

With all due respect, I have never seen anyone elses post edited like that and some other Moderater say that the whole post was a lie, I do not appreciate having my post edited that way, and who hath bewitched me? I have taken great offense to these things. I do not appreciate being chastised in this way.

Again, show me the scripture where it says Jesus did away with the whole law?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-19

 

[Br. Bear]

Dear sister, briefly,

I could delete it and give you an infraction or ban you instead if you prefer? I do not appreciate lies. I also like being chastised.. it is good for me... even if it doesn't feel so good at the time.

With all due respect, I have never seen anyone elses post edited like that and some other Moderater say that the whole post was a lie, I do not appreciate having my post edited that way, and who hath bewitched me? I have taken great offense to these things. I do not appreciate being chastised in this way.

Galatians 3:1-7 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


Abraham dwelt way before Moses and the commandments you refer to.

Jesus took the curse of the law upon Himself. He fulfilled the law, if not, He died in vain and all Christian belief is vanity.
If I keep the Sabbath, do I get a free ticket to heaven? If I keep the Sabbath am I assured eternal life?
If, in my Sabbath keeping, I do better than you at keeping it, down to the last minute detail of the Law, will I have preference over you in the Kingdom?
If I keep the Sabbath, am I better than all others who don't?

Did Jesus set me free from the law of sin and death? (on the basis that I believe He did)

If I keep the Sabbath, and offend in any tiny little bit any other of the Ten Commandments (as they are called)... am I still OK in the Law?

If I use a bit of electricity or answer the phone, if I light a fire to keep my children warm, or prepare a meal for them on the Sabbath, do I still get to Heaven?

Perhaps if you could answer me these questions?

Bless you,

Br. Bear

Isaiah 53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


another note about being chastised....

Hebrews 12:5-14 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

 

[ServantOfYHWH]

Dear sister, briefly,

I could delete it and give you an infraction or ban you instead if you prefer? I do not appreciate lies. I also like being chastised.. it is good for me... even if it doesn't feel so good at the time.

With all due respect, I have never seen anyone elses post edited like that and some other Moderater say that the whole post was a lie, I do not appreciate having my post edited that way, and who hath bewitched me? I have taken great offense to these things. I do not appreciate being chastised in this way.

Galatians 3:1-7 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


Abraham dwelt way before Moses and the commandments you refer to.

Jesus took the curse of the law upon Himself. He fulfilled the law, if not, He died in vain and all Christian belief is vanity.
If I keep the Sabbath, do I get a free ticket to heaven? If I keep the Sabbath am I assured eternal life?
If, in my Sabbath keeping, I do better than you at keeping it, down to the last minute detail of the Law, will I have preference over you in the Kingdom?
If I keep the Sabbath, am I better than all others who don't?

Did Jesus set me free from the law of sin and death? (on the basis that I believe He did)

If I keep the Sabbath, and offend in any tiny little bit any other of the Ten Commandments (as they are called)... am I still OK in the Law?

If I use a bit of electricity or answer the phone, if I light a fire to keep my children warm, or prepare a meal for them on the Sabbath, do I still get to Heaven?

Perhaps if you could answer me these questions?

Bless you,

Br. Bear

Isaiah 53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


another note about being chastised....

Hebrews 12:5-14 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Thank you brother, I was upset at first but I prayed and God helped me. You are very correct, I'm still a baby Christian and I still have a lot to learn, I'm sorry for my misunderstanding, your welcome to delete this thread. God bless.

 

[stephen]

Thank you brother, I was upset at first but I prayed and God helped me. You are very correct, I'm still a baby Christian and I still have a lot to learn, I'm sorry for my misunderstanding, your welcome to delete this thread. God bless.

Bro Bear and I too, appreciate the lovely humility you show here sister. It is a precious spirit.

God Bless You

 

[Fellowservant]

Hi sister and welcome to Talk Jesus

A lot of things changed after the cross, but we still seem to want to go back into bondage one way or another. Paul called it trying to be justified by the works of the law. (Ie ordinances contained in the law, the ordinances of the sabbath included) But we see scripture in the bible for this very problem and warnings about it. Yes Paul went into Churches and Synagogues to preach on the sabbath, but it was mostly to try and convince the Jews that Jesus was the Christ, and not to keep a sabbath. To the Jew Paul said he became one, to try and win them to Christ, to the weak he became weak and so on. But over in Galations we see Paul saying that circumcision was useless, and it needed to be done on the heart and not the flesh, the rest of the laws as well needed to be a heart change in the believer (Ie a new creature) and not a carnal commandment.

Heb 9:9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].


Some scripture on the sabbath and holydays below, whether to keep or not keep (regard) certain days now is based on your freedom to do so, as long as your not judging others who don't regard certain days and so on. But if you seek to be justified here by keeping any of these days, you will miss the meaning of that freedom and may even fall from grace, as scripture states that if you seek to be justified by works of the law, you will fall from Gods grace. The law was a teacher to bring us to Christ, so now we are not under the law but under grace for salvation, so that it would be no more a carnal law but a spiritual law, the law of the spirit, and fruits of the spirit, that produce or establish the law of God by our faith in Christ, see the book of Romans.


Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.


Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

God bless you

 

[ServantOfYHWH]

Hi sister and welcome to Talk Jesus

A lot of things changed after the cross, but we still seem to want to go back into bondage one way or another. Paul called it trying to be justified by the works of the law. (Ie ordinances contained in the law, the ordinances of the sabbath included) But we see scripture in the bible for this very problem and warnings about it. Yes Paul went into Churches and Synagogues to preach on the sabbath, but it was mostly to try and convince the Jews that Jesus was the Christ, and not to keep a sabbath. To the Jew Paul said he became one, to try and win them to Christ, to the weak he became weak and so on. But over in Galations we see Paul saying that circumcision was useless, and it needed to be done on the heart and not the flesh, the rest of the laws as well needed to be a heart change in the believer (Ie a new creature) and not a carnal commandment.

Heb 9:9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].


Some scripture on the sabbath and holydays below, whether to keep or not keep (regard) certain days now is based on your freedom to do so, as long as your not judging others who don't regard certain days and so on. But if you seek to be justified here by keeping any of these days, you will miss the meaning of that freedom and may even fall from grace, as scripture states that if you seek to be justified by works of the law, you will fall from Gods grace. The law was a teacher to bring us to Christ, so now we are not under the law but under grace for salvation, so that it would be no more a carnal law but a spiritual law, the law of the spirit, and fruits of the spirit, that produce or establish the law of God by our faith in Christ, see the book of Romans.


Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.


Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

God bless you

Thank you so much for this, I've already taken all this to the Lord because it's been worrying me, I hope no one assumed I was saying that if you didn't observe the Sabbath you'd go to hell, I was merely looking at it as, even though it may not be important today shouldn't we show God that we love Him and His law, and choose to follow them? I've been reading Matthew, and this came up that I thought was interesting.

"How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath." Matthew 24:19-20?

Jesus is speaking about the end times, and He spoke about the Sabbath as if it was still relevant. Thanks in advance for your insight

 

[jiggyfly]

Jesus never said He was doing away with the Law, If God did away with His law, then He has done away with Himself. Commandments reflect Gods Character.

"For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the LORD, "So shall your descendants and your name remain. And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD" Isaiah 66:22, 23

Did it say in Scripture we're to do away with the Law completely? I am not talking about whether we go to church or not, Jesus never said we don't have to observe the Sabbath (saturday) as Holy. If it has no meaning for us, and it didn't matter, it would not be in the Ten Commandments in the first place. Jesus spoke about the regulations the Jews and rabbi's made on the Sabbath, He never spoke about doing away with it, again if you think I'm wrong please show me scripture where He claims this. I realize we are in the new covenant, but that doesn't mean the ten commandments have absolutely no relevance for us today. I would rather show God how much I LOVE HIS LAW AND DECREES by observing the Sabbath.

-Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Independence day, Presidents day, or just plain garbage day-

Again, where is scripture to back this claim up? God Himself told us which day is Sabbath, by what authority are you saying it doesn't matter when you celebrate the Sabbath? Or if you even choose to AT ALL. Why do you think it is unimportant to obey God?

God gave mankind the Sabbath at the end of creation week. The fourth commandment given at Mt. Sinai was not a new commandment. God said to “remember” the Sabbath … to keep it holy. In truth, not one of the Ten Commandments were new commandments — they all embodied God’s law as given before the creation of the physical world. They embody all of God’s government as it was to be administered at the physical creation and the way it will be administered when Christ returns to establish the kingdom.

The fourth commandment stands out namely because it is the only one that God specifically said to “remember.” And isn’t it interesting that it is the only one that Christianity chooses to “forget.”

Jesus, the apostles, and the early church kept God’s Sabbath on the seventh day of the week. Christ kept it as was his custom (Luke 4:16). He went into the synagogues and taught on the Sabbath day and he went to the Temple to teach during the annual feast days. He didn’t do this just because that would be the place he would find the Jews. Luke tells us he did it because it was his custom.

Following his death and resurrection, we find Paul and the apostles following the same pattern. They went into the synagogues on the Sabbath days to teach of Christ and of the coming kingdom of God. It was also their custom. This continued for the remainder of their lives.

If the Sabbath law was “nailed to the cross” as most Christians and apparently you as well, today believe, then why did the apostles and the early church continue to observe it for so long?

There is not one instance recorded in the New Testament of an apostle keeping Sunday nor is there one instance of an apostle not keeping the Sabbath. The Bible records over eighty Sabbaths that the apostle Paul kept. "If you love me, you will obey what I command." John 14:15

They were evangelizing so you go to where people are and as you stated it was their custom. I am sure that Paul went into other pagan temples during the days designated for worship according to that custom also, should we follow this example too?

Concerning the apostles observing the sabbath till the remainder of their lives, could you please reveal your source for this?

 

[beam]

Greetings to all,

Could someone please expand on this scripture for me a bit more? It does seem to be quoted for the end times, (which I believe we have either entered into or are at least seriously close to)

"How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath." Matthew 24:19-20?

Thank you
Yours in Christ
beam (laserbeam) :coocoo::wink:

 

[Fellowservant]

Greetings to all,

Could someone please expand on this scripture for me a bit more? It does seem to be quoted for the end times, (which I believe we have either entered into or are at least seriously close to)

"How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath." Matthew 24:19-20?

Thank you
Yours in Christ
beam (laserbeam) :coocoo::wink:

The sabbath required a person not to travel long distances, so in that scripture Jesus is warning the Jews not to do so when the abomination of desolation takes place. (hence the word pray) winter is also not a good time to travel with children. He was also speaking to a group of people who lived in the immediate area of Judea. (Ie Jews) The Jews still try to keep the law of Moses and the sabbath, but have rejected Christ as their savior.

Before the cross Jesus said he wasn't sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and called a gentile woman a dog because then salvation was of the Jews. After the cross salvation went to all the world by Gods mercy. By rejecting the Jews because of unbelief, God was able to show mercy upon all who call on him, not just Jews but Gentiles also.

So now we are on equal ground, if we believe. As for Messianic Jews they tend to use laws as well to give you justification from your sins, therefore Christians who follow "brother Pauls instructions somewhat reject the idea of justification by works of the law, Read Romans

Moral of the story is, is that Jesus said some things to the Gentiles that he would not of said after the cross, Jews as well. Remember Peter? who said i cannot go to an unclean person or nation? Then God gave him a revelation of wild beast and said slay and eat, but he responded no, i have never eaten anything unclean.

But God replied what i have cleansed call not thou unclean. After this he was to go see a Gentile group, where God showed him that the Gentile was also excepted with him, by giving them the Spirit as he gave Peter and the rest of them that were with him on the day of Pentecost. Therefore this is evidence that after the cross things changed a lot. For the better i would say...

As for the end times? Jesus mentioned that the temple would be destroyed, this happened in 70AD thats a long way from the time of the end of the world, yet he mentioned it and it happened. Why did he warn the Jews of his day about breaking the sabbath before the cross? Could be they where not under the new covenant then, and had to keep the laws of the old testament until the new one. But i do know from Paul who was the apostle to the Gentiles, that we are not justified by the works of the law, but by faith and his grace, which is more than sufficient for us. See Romans...


God bless all

 

[SpiritLedEd]

As for the end times? Jesus mentioned that the temple would be destroyed, this happened in 70AD thats a long way from the time of the end of the world, yet he mentioned it and it happened. Why did he warn the Jews of his day about breaking the sabbath before the cross? Could be they where not under the new covenant then, and had to keep the Law?

Just a thought on this topic: I read somewhere that in A.D.70 the Romans leveled the entire ciy of Jerusalem, not just the temple. Perhaps Jesus was trying to alert the Jews that their adherence to Sabbath observance would not delay the Roman fury that was going to be unleashed; that they would be killed if they allowed Sabbath ritual observance to keep them from fleeing.

SLE

 

[Fellowservant]

Just a thought on this topic: I read somewhere that in A.D.70 the Romans leveled the entire ciy of Jerusalem, not just the temple. Perhaps Jesus was trying to alert the Jews that their adherence to Sabbath observance would not delay the Roman fury that was going to be unleashed; that they would be killed if they allowed Sabbath ritual observance to keep them from fleeing.

SLE

Yes thats something like it as well, Christ said is it right to do good on the sabbath or evil , he also made it clear to the Jews that the sabbath was made for men, and not men for the sabbath. But some would rather die i think than break it, so this is likely why Christ said pray that your flight be not in winter or on the sabbath because of this. This passage in Matthew 24 also may have a double meaning prophecy or fullfilment for the Jew as well, and not just the 70AD incident.

Because this also mentions the abomination of desolation that Daniel mentioned, and may still apply to the Jews of today. As the Antichrist didn't show up in 70AD and commit the abomination of desolation, so them still fleeing because of this, is still up for grabs. Zec 14:4-5 is where Christ returns and sets his feet upon the mount of olives, and it splits into and a valley is made for a group of people fleeing from Jerusalem to it.

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee.

This is why i believe that this fleeing could still be future, but it is still definitely for the Jews, as it takes place in Jerusalem and the surrounding area (Ie Judah) Actually if i was a Christian in Jerusalem at that time, id put on my moving sandals and head for that valley myself, sabbath or not.

God bless

 

[FinalCry]

The Law

For those who insist that God's law was done away with, I will make only one post.

Which of the following commandments are done away with?
Can we pick and choose which ones to keep? See James 2:10

1) No other gods
2) No idol worship
3) Don't call the Lord's name in vain
4) Remember the seventh day Sabbath

5) Honor our parents
6) Don't kill
7) Don't commit adultery
8) Don't steal
9) Don't bear false witness
10) Don't covet

The one that the enemy wants us to forget is the only one that starts off telling us to remember it.

Thanks and I'm done with this post. No sense in whipping a dead horse.

 

[letusgo27]

Jesus gave this as a sign the romans surrounding Jerusalem and on that time in 70 ad the prophacy was fullfilled that no stone was left upon another.

and the whole prophecy of Matt 24 is a duel prophecy although the second time will not be just for literal Jews but rather spritiual Israel.(you and me)

it will affect every follower of Christ in the world. hmmm how would that happen something about making everyone worship an Image.
when the government tries to make laws that conflict with the laws of GOd. on issus of worship then that will be the sighn to flee the cities etc.

the issue or abomination of desolation is over who you will worship or even how you will worship. God says one way man says another.

Ezekiel tells us that the abomination is a worship issue. The Jewsish race is no longer according to the Bible the chosen race of GOd they were given time to repent and that time passed and the messege now went to the gentiles and through the gentiles as well. you and I are Israel now there is no jew nor greek for we are all hairs of the promise now and we are all Abrahams seed.

blessings

 

[Gracealone]

For those who insist that God's law was done away with, I will make only one post.

Which of the following commandments are done away with?
Can we pick and choose which ones to keep? See James 2:10

1) No other gods
2) No idol worship
3) Don't call the Lord's name in vain
4) Remember the seventh day Sabbath

5) Honor our parents
6) Don't kill
7) Don't commit adultery
8) Don't steal
9) Don't bear false witness
10) Don't covet

The one that the enemy wants us to forget is the only one that starts off telling us to remember it.

Thanks and I'm done with this post. No sense in whipping a dead horse.

Your right, but it might help if we accepted all scripture....

I would say to you:

Galatians 4:8-11
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10 Ye observe days, ...

Romans 14:5-8

1Corinthians 16:2

Revelation 1:10

You can read the rest, as my Great Granddaughter has arrived....

Remember, we are under a New Covenant.....Grace, not Law, but we walk in spirit and in truth because we love him, and do desire to keep his commandments, in Love, not the Letter.

 

[StopPolloition]

By our Lord's resurrection on the first day of the week, his continued appearances on succeeding Sundays and the descent of the Holy Spirit on Sunday, the church was given a pattern of Sunday worship.

 

[Tea4me]

I've read alot debates on this issue lately. I do have some questions. God said to "remember the Sabbath and keep it holy" and the bible clearly states that it was the "7th" day.

So, according to our calendar the 7th day would be Saturday. But, do we honestly know that God's 7th day actually fell on Saturday in Old Testament times?

I've read different theories that there have been some calendar changes in history. Do we know for sure if the days in the old testament are the same days we follow today?

I'm just a baby to the bible. :helppc: I haven't really studied it enough to come to my own conclusion on the matter. I trust God will lead me in the right direction on the matter.