Why Choose the Church over the Bible

[Butch5]

Butch5’s presence on this message board serves only to stir up strife and divert attention from the clear truths of Scripture. No matter how patiently or thoroughly the truth is explained, it becomes evident that their heart is hardened and their eyes are spiritually blind to the Word of God. As Jesus warned, “Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit” (Matthew 15:14), and again, “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?” (Luke 6:39). Engaging with the falsehoods repeatedly shared by Butch5 is not only fruitless but also distracts from proclaiming the truth of the gospel. These distortions are not from God, for Satan is the father of lies (John 8:44), and it is clear where such deception originates. Let us stay grounded in the truth of God’s Word and not be drawn away by those who reject it.

It's interesting that you continually speak of the truths of Scripture and then present contradictions and fallacies.

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. King James Version, 1 Co 14:33.

Contradictions and fallacies cause nothing but confusion. This ad hominem is just a distraction. I noticed you didn't engage with the subject of the thread. Why David, do you accept the teachings of men over the clear word of the Scriptures?

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
King James Version, 1 Co 8:6.

Paul said, "to us there is but one God, the Father." Why don't you believe God's word, David? Why do you accept the teaching of men, that says there is one God in persons over the teaching of the apostle Paul, David? You keep talking about the truth of Scripture, yet you deny that very truth. Why is that David? That's what this thread is about. Why do people take the words of men over the words of Scripture?

The reason you have an issue with me being here is not about Scripture. It's that I've shown that your doctrine is not from God, but from men.
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. King James Version, Mk 7:6–7.

Jesus chastised the Jews for that very thing. You may also want to be careful what you claim is of Satan. The Jews called the work of God of Satan. One day you'll stand before the Lord, and you'll learn that the contradictions and fallacies that you've accepted are the lies that you speak of, and that you rejected what is truth.

 

[bdavidc]

It's interesting

I have not read your post, and I am tired of your lies and false teachings. You are only here to derail meaningful conversations. I have placed you on ignore.

 

[Rxlx]

Butch5’s presence on this message board serves only to stir up strife and divert attention from the clear truths of Scripture. No matter how patiently or thoroughly the truth is explained, it becomes evident that their heart is hardened and their eyes are spiritually blind to the Word of God. As Jesus warned, “Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit” (Matthew 15:14), and again, “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?” (Luke 6:39). Engaging with the falsehoods repeatedly shared by Butch5 is not only fruitless but also distracts from proclaiming the truth of the gospel. These distortions are not from God, for Satan is the father of lies (John 8:44), and it is clear where such deception originates. Let us stay grounded in the truth of God’s Word and not be drawn away by those who reject it.

bdavidc's, kingj and many other's presence on this message board serves only to stir up strife and divert attention from the clear truths of Scripture.

 

[Rxlx]

I have not read your post, and I am tired of your lies and false teachings. You are only here to derail meaningful conversations. I have placed you on ignore.

Like the Pharisees who crucified Jesus you hate truth and ignore Bible teachings.

 

[KingJ]

bdavidc's, kingj and many other's presence on this message board serves only to stir up strife and divert attention from the clear truths of Scripture.

 

[KingJ]

I have not read your post, and I am tired of your lies and false teachings.

They are false teachings, I agree. @Butch5 proposes that his reading is accurate and we must all follow him.

What heretics miss is the fact that scripture has a very simple inbuilt acid test for heresy. If any teaching 1. Incriminates God, 2. Mocks Jesus and 3. Undermines the cross, it is heresy that according to scripture is not up for debate. Whatever doctrine is taught needs to ensure that 1, 2 and 3 are not ticked.

Job says in Job 34:12 It is unthinkable that God would do what is evil and pervert justice. David says in Psalm 145:17 God is righteous in all His ways. John says 1 John 1:5 God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. Paul explains that Jesus was the perfect sacrifice Heb 10:14-24.

Now, when you interrogate Butch's beliefs you find the following:

1. Annihilationism - This proposes there is no true free will. This Incriminates God as no free will is evil. Imagine saying to a spouse that if they don't marry you they will be burnt alive.

2. No heaven for saints - This mocks Jesus and undermines the cross. Imagine saying to a young child who just died as a martyr for Jesus that Jesus does not welcome them into His house.

3. No Trinity - This ticks all three and a fourth in that it mocks the Holy Spirit.

A - Having someone else punished for a debt you created is unjust and evil.

B - 2.4 billion people worshiping Jesus. The Holy Spirit must be terrible at His one job. Exo 34:14 is clear that nobody must worship anyone other than God.

C - How could Jesus be a worthy sacrifice if all except for God have sinned?

Now, to get Butch or any other person that agrees with the above to provide rational explanations for alternative conclusions is virtually mission impossible. That to me is clear evidence that you are dealing with false teachers who are more concerned with people agreeing with them for vanity or whatever other reasons over actually properly representing God and Jesus to the lost. IE Doing their 'one' job.

Imagine standing before God of the universe one day and being guilty of completely and utterly failing at your ''one'' job of properly representing Him to the lost He loves and died for.

 

[Butch5]

I have not read your post, and I am tired of your lies and false teachings. You are only here to derail meaningful conversations. I have placed you on ignore.

They are false teachings, I agree. @Butch5 proposes that his reading is accurate and we must all follow him.

What heretics miss is the fact that scripture has a very simple inbuilt acid test for heresy. If any teaching 1. Incriminates God, 2. Mocks Jesus and 3. Undermines the cross, it is heresy that according to scripture is not up for debate. Whatever doctrine is taught needs to ensure that 1, 2 and 3 are not ticked.

Job says in Job 34:12 It is unthinkable that God would do what is evil and pervert justice. David says in Psalm 145:17 God is righteous in all His ways. John says 1 John 1:5 God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. Paul explains that Jesus was the perfect sacrifice Heb 10:14-24.

Now, when you interrogate Butch's beliefs you find the following:

1. Annihilationism - This proposes there is no true free will. This Incriminates God as no free will is evil. Imagine saying to a spouse that if they don't marry you they will be burnt alive.

2. No heaven for saints - This mocks Jesus and undermines the cross. Imagine saying to a young child who just died as a martyr for Jesus that Jesus does not welcome them into His house.

3. No Trinity - This ticks all three and a fourth in that it mocks the Holy Spirit.

A - Having someone else punished for a debt you created is unjust and evil.

B - 2.4 billion people worshiping Jesus. The Holy Spirit must be terrible at His one job. Exo 34:14 is clear that nobody must worship anyone other than God.

C - How could Jesus be a worthy sacrifice if all except for God have sinned?

Now, to get Butch or any other person that agrees with the above to provide rational explanations for alternative conclusions is virtually mission impossible. That to me is clear evidence that you are dealing with false teachers who are more concerned with people agreeing with them for vanity or whatever other reasons over actually properly representing God and Jesus to the lost. IE Doing their 'one' job.

Imagine standing before God of the universe one day and being guilty of completely and utterly failing at your ''one'' job of properly representing Him to the lost He loves and died for.

The level of fallciaousness is profound.

You've probably experienced this phenomenon in real life. An example of the Dunning-Kruger effect is a situation that many have perhaps experienced around the dinner table at a holiday family gathering.

"Throughout the meal, a member of your extended family spouts off on a topic at length, boldly proclaiming that they are correct and that everyone else's opinion is stupid, uninformed, and just plain wrong. While it may be evident that this person has no idea what they are talking about, they prattle on, blithely oblivious to their ignorance."

Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why Incompetent People Think They Are Superior

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which the incompetent lack the skills and cognitive abilities to recognize their own inability. Learn how it works.

www.verywellmind.com

 

[Garee]

1. Annihilationism - This proposes there is no true free will. This Incriminates God as no free will is evil. Imagine saying to a spouse that if they don't marry you they will be burnt alive.

Annihilationism those who have no faith that comes by hearing God (sola scriptura) They have denied the liberating will of the Holy Father. They chose the letter of the law Thou shall not. . death .ther bodies of death return to the dust and the tem;oral Spirt given under the leter retuned to the Father of all spirt life

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in (born again) newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. (Annihilationism)

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[KingJ]

The level of fallciaousness is profound.

You've probably experienced this phenomenon in real life. An example of the Dunning-Kruger effect is a situation that many have perhaps experienced around the dinner table at a holiday family gathering.

"Throughout the meal, a member of your extended family spouts off on a topic at length, boldly proclaiming that they are correct and that everyone else's opinion is stupid, uninformed, and just plain wrong. While it may be evident that this person has no idea what they are talking about, they prattle on, blithely oblivious to their ignorance."

Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why Incompetent People Think They Are Superior

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which the incompetent lack the skills and cognitive abilities to recognize their own inability. Learn how it works.

www.verywellmind.com

Your reply is called dancing. An attempt to keep face whilst ignoring the accusations of your belief. How about trying to actually address the points made with a rational and sound alternative that does not incriminate God? Imagine asking that on a discussion forum.

But then, I am reminded of trying to get you to do such in the deity of Jesus thread. It was mission impossible .

 

[KingJ]

Annihilationism those who have no faith that comes by hearing God (sola scriptura) They have denied the liberating will of the Holy Father. They chose the letter of the law Thou shall not. . death .ther bodies of death return to the dust and the tem;oral Spirt given under the leter retuned to the Father of all spirt life

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in (born again) newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. (Annihilationism)

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Thanks for at least trying to take a stab at the point I made. All you have done however is to cherry pick three scriptures. Please try grasp the acid test proposed and the rational argument raised. Once you address that, we can discuss scripture on 'annihilationism'.

 

[Butch5]

Your reply is called dancing. An attempt to keep face whilst ignoring the accusations of your belief. How about trying to actually address the points made with a rational and sound alternative that does not incriminate God? Imagine asking that on a discussion forum.

But then, I am reminded of trying to get you to do such in the deity of Jesus thread. It was mission impossible .

Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why Incompetent People Think They Are Superior

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which the incompetent lack the skills and cognitive abilities to recognize their own inability. Learn how it works.

www.verywellmind.com

 

[bdavidc]

Imagine standing before God of the universe one day and being guilty of completely and utterly failing at your ''one'' job of properly representing Him to the lost He loves and died for.

Scripture is very clear about how we are to handle those who persist in false teaching after being corrected. While we are called to be patient and speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15), we are also warned not to endlessly engage with those who reject sound doctrine and continue to promote error.

Titus 3:10–11 instructs, "As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned." This shows that after making efforts to correct, there comes a point when separation is the biblical response.

Similarly, Romans 16:17 says, "I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them." And 2 John 1:10–11 adds, "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."

Engaging repeatedly with someone who dismisses correction and continues to spread falsehood not only becomes unfruitful, but according to Scripture, may actually implicate us in their sin if we give them a platform or credibility. We are not called to endlessly argue but to contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints (Jude 1:3) and then, if rejected, to separate ourselves from those who prove themselves to be enemies of the truth.

In light of this, choosing not to fellowship with or continue interacting with someone who has consistently rejected truth is not unloving—it is obedience to God’s Word.

 

[Dave M]

On the contrary what is stated is Jesus telling the apostles that where He was going, they could not come. So, If Jesus explicitly told the disciples that they could not go to Heaven. Why do Christians believe and teach that people go to Heaven when they die?

I know why I think we go to heaven, it's because of what scripture says, but ultimately we are going to end up in resurrected bodies on a Redeemed earth

But let us examine what Jesus said about where he was going, and they could not follow. I think we agree Jesus was going to heaven I think we agree that what he was saying.

John 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. You will seek me, and just as I said to the Jews, so now I also say to you, ‘Where I am going you cannot come.’​

But at we read a little father down we Jesus saying that Peter will follow afterwards. Maybe he was talking about the cross? Maybe heaven let look farther.

John 13:36 Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, where are you going?” Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow me now, but you will follow afterward.”​

Jesus is coming again to take us to his fathers house, he has prepared a place for someone?? is not his fathers house in heaven?

John 14:2- In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.​

That is my point of view from reading scripture on my own, not from a church, the main point really is not if we are going to heaven that is going to be temporary, we are getting new resurrected bodies, and will dwell on a un cursed earth. Earth is our destination under Jesus rule.

I could be wrong about the whole thing, who knows, always find Butches post well written and respectful,just do not agree on this. But I do understand his take on people opting for church doctrine over scripture, I grew up in the Catholic church, and those people take what ever the priest say as truth, and never pick up the Bible themselves. At one time the Catholic church completely discouraged reading the bible. So I get wear Butch is coming from, we may not agree but at least we can both go to the scripture and not rely on what we have been told.