B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 11,227
I've talked about this here before. A lot of it falls into which theology camp you are in.
1. Autoism - I do it all, and God just watches from a distance to see how I'm doing.
2. Theoism - God does it all, I have no choice in the matter ( closely tied to predestination, OSAS, non-freewill ) - these people ask "why is God testing me?" Because they assume God does it all, no need for me to be tested.
3. Synergism - It's a joint, cooperative relationship - God does most of it ( there are varying degrees - according to your theology ) but I myself am responsible for a part of it.
But the fact remains... God does test some people, or perhaps He uses Satan to do it sometimes, but even Satan has to ask for permission.
Exod 16:4; Then the LORD said to Moses, "Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may test them, whether or not they will walk in My instruction.
Deut 8:16; "In the wilderness He fed you manna which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and that He might test you, to do good for you in the end.
Deut 8:2; "You shall remember all the way which the LORD your God has led you in the wilderness these forty years, that He might humble you, testing you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.
Deut 13:3; you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Some people are hoarders. They gather up a lot of... "food" ... in case no more mannah comes from God tomorrow. But God tells them not to. Do they pass the test here?
Exod 20:20; Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin."
Jdg 2:20; So the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and He said, "Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers and has not listened to My voice,
Jdg 2:21; I also will no longer drive out before them any of the nations which Joshua left when he died,
Jdg 2:22; in order to test Israel by them, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk in it as their fathers did, or not."
Jdg 2:23; So the LORD allowed those nations to remain, not driving them out quickly; and He did not give them into the hand of Joshua.
Jdg 3:4; They were for testing Israel, to find out if they would obey the commandments of the LORD, which He had commanded their fathers through Moses.
This particular verse seems to be more about Paul testing this church than God Himself.
2Cor 2:9; For to this end also I wrote, so that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things.
We are also told to test ourselves from time to time.
2Cor 13:5; Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
2Cor 13:6; But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.
But back to God testing us...
Jas 1:2; Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
Jas 1:3; knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
Jas 1:4; And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
1Pet 4:12; Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you;
1Pet 4:13; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.
Gen 22:1; Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
Gen 22:2; He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."
Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
1Pet 1:6; In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
1Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Isa 48:10; "Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.
Zech 13:9; "And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"
Of course there is Job... it appears God is inviting Satan to test Job.
Job 1:8; The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."
Job 1:9; Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nothing?
Job 1:10; "Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.
Job 1:11; "But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face."
Job 1:12; Then the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him." So Satan departed from the presence of the LORD.
Job passes the first test, so God let's him be tested again.
Job 2:3; The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause."
Job 2:4; Satan answered the LORD and said, "Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life.
Job 2:5; "However, put forth Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh; he will curse You to Your face."
Job 2:6; So the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life."
But I notice Satan could only go as far as God let him. Satan can't do anything to believers without God's permission.
Luke 22:31; "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat;
Luke 22:32; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."
So Satan asks "permission" to test Peter here. Jesus knows in advance it's going to happen, but He doesn't stop it from happening.
We all know the story of Peter denying Jesus 3 times, and at first glance it seems he fails the test. But we also know Peter
came back to Jesus in the end ( unlike Judas Iscariot who apparently "failed" the test ).
1. Autoism - I do it all, and God just watches from a distance to see how I'm doing.
2. Theoism - God does it all, I have no choice in the matter ( closely tied to predestination, OSAS, non-freewill ) - these people ask "why is God testing me?" Because they assume God does it all, no need for me to be tested.
3. Synergism - It's a joint, cooperative relationship - God does most of it ( there are varying degrees - according to your theology ) but I myself am responsible for a part of it.
But the fact remains... God does test some people, or perhaps He uses Satan to do it sometimes, but even Satan has to ask for permission.
Exod 16:4; Then the LORD said to Moses, "Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may test them, whether or not they will walk in My instruction.
Deut 8:16; "In the wilderness He fed you manna which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and that He might test you, to do good for you in the end.
Deut 8:2; "You shall remember all the way which the LORD your God has led you in the wilderness these forty years, that He might humble you, testing you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.
Deut 13:3; you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Some people are hoarders. They gather up a lot of... "food" ... in case no more mannah comes from God tomorrow. But God tells them not to. Do they pass the test here?
Exod 20:20; Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin."
Jdg 2:20; So the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and He said, "Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers and has not listened to My voice,
Jdg 2:21; I also will no longer drive out before them any of the nations which Joshua left when he died,
Jdg 2:22; in order to test Israel by them, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk in it as their fathers did, or not."
Jdg 2:23; So the LORD allowed those nations to remain, not driving them out quickly; and He did not give them into the hand of Joshua.
Jdg 3:4; They were for testing Israel, to find out if they would obey the commandments of the LORD, which He had commanded their fathers through Moses.
This particular verse seems to be more about Paul testing this church than God Himself.
2Cor 2:9; For to this end also I wrote, so that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things.
We are also told to test ourselves from time to time.
2Cor 13:5; Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
2Cor 13:6; But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.
But back to God testing us...
Jas 1:2; Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
Jas 1:3; knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
Jas 1:4; And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
1Pet 4:12; Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you;
1Pet 4:13; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.
Gen 22:1; Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
Gen 22:2; He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."
Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
1Pet 1:6; In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
1Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Isa 48:10; "Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.
Zech 13:9; "And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"
Of course there is Job... it appears God is inviting Satan to test Job.
Job 1:8; The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."
Job 1:9; Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nothing?
Job 1:10; "Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.
Job 1:11; "But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face."
Job 1:12; Then the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him." So Satan departed from the presence of the LORD.
Job passes the first test, so God let's him be tested again.
Job 2:3; The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause."
Job 2:4; Satan answered the LORD and said, "Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life.
Job 2:5; "However, put forth Your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh; he will curse You to Your face."
Job 2:6; So the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life."
But I notice Satan could only go as far as God let him. Satan can't do anything to believers without God's permission.
Luke 22:31; "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat;
Luke 22:32; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."
So Satan asks "permission" to test Peter here. Jesus knows in advance it's going to happen, but He doesn't stop it from happening.
We all know the story of Peter denying Jesus 3 times, and at first glance it seems he fails the test. But we also know Peter
came back to Jesus in the end ( unlike Judas Iscariot who apparently "failed" the test ).