Why should I go to church

[Mike]

Why should I go to church?

The Bible says that we should not forsake "our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more, as you see the day drawing near," (Heb. 10:25). It is wise to go to church because that is where we can go to hear the word of God preached and to experience the friendship of other believers.

It is very important that we hear the word of God. The Bible says, "So shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth. It shall not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it," (Isa. 55:11). Also, "For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart," (Heb. 4:12). The word of God, when it is preached, presents to us the truth that the Lord wants us to know. We need to hear the word of God presented to us, analyzed, and applied to our lives so that we can live better, accomplish what God desires for us, and can bring glory and honor to Him.

The other very good reason mentioned above for going to church is to experience friendship with other Christians. We need friends in order to be well balanced and healthy. Also, in church we discover opportunities to serve and be served. Therefore, we learn to apply what is taught out of God's word and then we learn to extend it to others outside the church.

Also, in church we share in the successes and failures of others and learn how the Lord has worked in the lives of other people. In this we are encouraged. Remember, God did not make us to be alone. We need the friendship of other believers.

So, you should go to church because that is where you can hear the word of God explained and applied to your life, see how God works in people's lives, and experience the friendship of others.

 

[Richard]

Hi Mike,

Where is your church?!?

The other very good reason mentioned above for going to church is to experience friendship with other Christians...

In our church experience, there is no time to expereince friendship, except for five minutes during the coffee break, (but then we are all making a mad dash to the coffee urns). Who can possibly have the kids ready for church and be there early, and there is no time after either, as it is an hour past the kids' nap time and they are having a melt down...mg:

Also, in church we share in the successes and failures of others and learn how the Lord has worked in the lives of other people.

There is not any time for that either. There is a carefully pre planned order of service that is followed very closely...

So, you should go to church because that is where you can hear the word of God explained and applied to your life, see how God works in people's lives, and experience the friendship of others.

Looks like the churches around here are scoring one out of three - we hear the word of God...but then who can integrate the sermon into their lives in six days?

If you would ask me what last weeks sermon was about and how it has impacted my life, you (to my embarrassment) get a blank look from me.

I believe that we can broaden our interpretation of those verses you mentioned.

When I was in Hong Kong, working with ex-heroin addicts and street sleepers, we never went to church, though we were always in a spirit of worship, always ministering with one another, sharing communion every day, and hearing God speak through each other.

The most profound thing was when God would would give an ex-addict things to say - it is amazing to hear some one who has been on heroin all their life, who can't read, whose brain is fried in many ways, speak the word of God, though he has never read it. BTW, the words of knowledge were always bang on too.

We can have and experience all the things you have mentioned by living in closeness with our brothers and sisters in christ, appart from the institution that we call church on Sunday.

The most meaningful times that we have ever experienced in God's word, encouragement, and love have been the times that we are on the top of a mountain with friends, in our home, or at trhe beach in the evening.

Church is great, I am not against it in any way, we still go, however, it is by no menans the centre of our spirituality - our daily experience with God and others is...

 

[Richard]

I guess that I came across a bit differently than I meant to. :embarasse

The point that I was trying to make is that what we call church, referring to the organized service, is not only a mis-nomer, but too narrow of a definition of what "gathering together" may mean.

I was not meaning to come across as judging the church, or pointing out it's short comings, but rather to provoke thought regarding a tradition that many of us have grown up in. I certainly do not isolate myself from my christian family, as we need each other, and as I said in my post, we still go.

However, sometimes I feel that we can equate a Sunday church service with all the scriptures that are referring to the gathering, encouraging, ministering to each other verses, but the reality is that I am the church, and where I am the church is.

I have been wrestling with what that really means and what it looks like to walk that out.

What does "church" look like in the factory where I work?

What does it look like on the ski hill and I am sharing the chair lift with someone I don't know?

At most, it seems that Sunday church cannot be a major source of my spirituality as I spend 1/56th of my time there (based on 8 hours of sleep and a 2 hour service).

I also have to seek out the apostles, prophets, evangelists, to be equipped by them as well as my pastor/teacher from church (see Eph 4:11). Usually those other sources come in the form of books, conference cd's, and the internet.

As we become the church, and start taking more responsibility for our own spiritual formation (which can only take place in the context of community - I don't believe that there is any room for a "It's just me and Jesus" attitude), maybe we can recover some of the things that made the early church real, dynamic and strong - many people sharing what God has shown them and done through them over the past few days, building each other up around shared meals, hearing what God is saying to them through all the gifts that God has given to the church to build it up.

The idea of an organized service, led by staff seems to be a foreign concept when compared to what we have in the New Testament.

Everyone brings a song, a teaching, a spiritual revelation, and sees the gifts of the Spirit functioning (See 1 Cor. 12, 14:26).

The early church was an "All Play" gathering. Listen to Paul's instructions regarding what should happen at a "church" service:

1 Cor 14:26-27, 29-31
When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church.

27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two-or at the most three-should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.

29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.

30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. (This is one of my favourite verses - The Holy Spirit actually leading the service...)

31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.
(from New International Version)

What God had to say to the people came through at least many, if not most of the people who are gathered. That is where spiritual reality breaks into the natural realm - through you and I being directly used by God himself.

This is not intended to be a criticism of the institutionalized church, but hopefully it will stir up some discussion, thought and help us to take a closer look at the way things have always been done and see if there is any way to move a bit closer to what God's intention for his church is.

All I am is one who is questioning things as I seek out my Father's heart...I have no answers, or solutions, I just feel like there may be room for a bit of change...

 

[sunshine307]

I guess that I came across a bit differently than I meant to. :embarasse
The point that I was trying to make is that what we call church, referring to the organized service, is not only a mis-nomer, but too narrow of a definition of what "gathering together" may mean.
I was not meaning to come across as judging the church, or pointing out it's short comings, but rather to provoke thought regarding a tradition that many of us have grown up in. I certainly do not isolate myself from my christian family, as we need each other, and as I said in my post, we still go.
However, sometimes I feel that we can equate a Sunday church service with all the scriptures that are referring to the gathering, encouraging, ministering to each other verses, but the reality is that I am the church, and where I am the church is.
Usually those other sources come in the form of books, conference cd's, and the internet.
As we become the church, and start taking more responsibility for our own spiritual formation (which can only take place in the context of community - I don't believe that there is any room for a "It's just me and Jesus" attitude), maybe we can recover some of the things that made the early church real, dynamic and strong - many people sharing what God has shown them and done through them over the past few days, building each other up around shared meals, hearing what God is saying to them through all the gifts that God has given to the church to build it up.
The idea of an organized service, led by staff seems to be a foreign concept when compared to what we have in the New Testament.

Amen brother. The church is not a building, we are the church, the Body of Christ. What it is now is what man has made it over the years.

This is not intended to be a criticism of the institutionalized church, but hopefully it will stir up some discussion, thought and help us to take a closer look at the way things have always been done and see if there is any way to move a bit closer to what God's intention for his church is.
All I am is one who is questioning things as I seek out my Father's heart...I have no answers, or solutions, I just feel like there may be room for a bit of change...

I certainly don't take what you are saying as criticism of the institutionalized church. This is something Father has been showing me lately too brother, listen to Father, seek His heart, there is nothing better we can do.

 

[CliffS]

You want to see Christ in the church???? Take Him with you.

 

[jiggyfly]

You want to see Christ in the church???? Take Him with you.

Nah, they probably would let Him in either.LOL

 

[Coconut]

[edited author to avoid contention]


Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[Gideon]

Coconut,

I feel so disgusted to see you quoting a hindu sage. Hogwash!!

No intents to hurt you but the quote by that fellow is supportive of hindu doctrines of universal mind and self discovery. BIBLE does not say anything like that.

Please be very careful before you quote somebody. The words may glitter but it can be from the devil disguised as the angel of light. No man can find God in his own heart. For the Bible says " the heart is most deceptive and desperately sick.".

So " search God in one's own heart" can never be a general statement and the quote has nothing to do with what the Bible says of the body being the temple of the Holy Spirit for a born again person.

And seeking God and finding Him is not a philosophy. It will happen only if the Spirit is leading you. And God will live inside you only if you are born again.

 

[Coconut]

I appreciate your honesty lol

I considered leaving out the author of that quote, but chose not too, as I like to give credit where it is due.


But if I had...and you thought I was the author, would you still have thought the statement to be unbiblical Gideon?

If so, can you show me exactly what part of that statement is unbiblical?


I see where you think "search Him in your heart" is...but I disagree...
Those who come to God must first what? "Believe that He is..." (search Him in your heart)

Lets break the quote down to see if its hogwash; (please excuse my paraphrasing)

"This body is His moving temple." Bible = "The body is the temple of God"

"The sanctum sanctorum is the chamber of your own heart" Bible = "Gods sacred sancturary is your heart"

"Close your eyes." Bible = (none that I know of) But surely christians do this.

"Search Him in thy heart with one-pointed mind, devotion, and pure love.You will surely find Him." Bible = "You will find [God] when you search for Him with all your heart"

"He is waiting there with outstretched arms to embrace you." Bible = "The kingdom of Heaven is like a Father who`s son went on a long journey..."

"If you cannot find Him there, you cannot find Him anywhere else." Bible = "God does not dwell in buildings made with hands."

You see, truth is truth, if it agrees with the Word...it doesnt matter to me who the author is, wether its a dead monk or mother theresa, or a nobody. It doesnt mean I`m leaning towards hindu doctrines...I know who Jesus is.
Its sad that Sri Swami`s biography (like mother theresa`s) for all of a life dedicated to serving, never mentions ever having found salvation thru Christ.

 

[Gideon]

Coconut,
I've made it very clear. My intention is not a verbal fight with you. And I don't want to justify what I said with any more arguments. And I am so sure that what I said is clear to you. Anyway I'll say it again.

Jesus said " I am the WAY , the TRUTH and the LIFE."
Any person can come up with so called 'truths' but if it does not speak of Jesus, it is absurdity. Plainly because there is no truth apart from JESUS. A statement can seemingly be so close to the what the Bible says but nothing can substitute what the Bible says if it does not align with the TRUTH OF JESUS. And the Bible warns us to shun anything that comes without the doctrine of Christ.

And I still can't figure out what you said when you say "Believe" = "search in your heart".

These sages or swamis propogate the hindu doctirne that God is present in every thing .... man, animal, object, tree, stone, wall, etc. So when a hindu sage says " search him in thy hearts with blah blah........" it simply is supportive of the hindu doctrine of universal mind and self discovery.

And I don't think anybody needs to believe that one can find God in his own heart. You can find God only through Jesus Christ when the Holy Spirit reveals Him to you. And God is not waiting within your heart to embrace you..... but rather He will come and dwell in your heart when you become born again.

And like you said, I would not even have noticed all this unless you have put the name swami sivananda under the quote. But as a christian, for me, there is only one TRUTH and there is only one Spirit who reveals it and there is only one God who deserves all glory and there is only one WAY to Him.

And coconut, to me, the author matters a lot. Because only the Holy Spirit can be the author of truth. The Bible says "let all man be proved liars and God alone true". I don't think swami sivananda can speak the truth about finding God unless he found God thru salvation in Jesus Christ. And therefore his words are hogwash and empty philosophy.

And this guy may have been a social worker but that does not make him a saint. Good works won't qualify anybody for God's kingdom.

Coconut, I won't post any more replies to this thread. I again say, my intention was never to put you down. I know you are a very mature christain and somebody whom I can learn from. I am just speaking by the authority in Christ Jesus as a minister of God.

So, no offense. I love you with the love of Christ. God bless.

 

[Coconut]

Coconut,
I've made it very clear. My intention is not a verbal fight with you. And I don't want to justify what I said with any more arguments. And I am so sure that what I said is clear to you. Anyway I'll say it again

.

Did I suggest that you were being quarrelsome Gideon? I said I appreciate your honesty. I responded to you as clearly as I could also.

A statement can seemingly be so close to the what the Bible says but nothing can substitute what the Bible says if it does not align with the TRUTH OF JESUS.

But I showed you that the quote did align with the Bible.

Tell me Gideon, does the Bible say 'Thou shalt not quote from any author except those using Bibilical authority'?

Or thou shalt not quote from any man who is unregenerate? There goes the mass majority. (including many in the christian pulpit)

Let me also ask you, does the Bible say that no man can tell the truth, except hes born again? As far as I know there is only one who cannot tell the truth and that is Satan.

If I quote (let me use jiggyfly for an example, i`m sure he wont mind) ...if I quote jiggyfly often, yet find out after reading his life biography, that he was a monk that secretly adhered to hindu doctrines...does it make the truths he spoke any less truth. No.

Truth is truth...no matter who it is spoken by.

And like you said, I would not even have noticed all this unless you have put the name swami sivananda under the quote.

I think you validated my point quite well.

 

[Chad]

Coconut,
I've made it very clear. My intention is not a verbal fight with you. And I don't want to justify what I said with any more arguments. And I am so sure that what I said is clear to you. Anyway I'll say it again.

Jesus said " I am the WAY , the TRUTH and the LIFE."
Any person can come up with so called 'truths' but if it does not speak of Jesus, it is absurdity. Plainly because there is no truth apart from JESUS. A statement can seemingly be so close to the what the Bible says but nothing can substitute what the Bible says if it does not align with the TRUTH OF JESUS. And the Bible warns us to shun anything that comes without the doctrine of Christ.

And I still can't figure out what you said when you say "Believe" = "search in your heart".

These sages or swamis propogate the hindu doctirne that God is present in every thing .... man, animal, object, tree, stone, wall, etc. So when a hindu sage says " search him in thy hearts with blah blah........" it simply is supportive of the hindu doctrine of universal mind and self discovery.

And I don't think anybody needs to believe that one can find God in his own heart. You can find God only through Jesus Christ when the Holy Spirit reveals Him to you. And God is not waiting within your heart to embrace you..... but rather He will come and dwell in your heart when you become born again.

And like you said, I would not even have noticed all this unless you have put the name swami sivananda under the quote. But as a christian, for me, there is only one TRUTH and there is only one Spirit who reveals it and there is only one God who deserves all glory and there is only one WAY to Him.

And coconut, to me, the author matters a lot. Because only the Holy Spirit can be the author of truth. The Bible says "let all man be proved liars and God alone true". I don't think swami sivananda can speak the truth about finding God unless he found God thru salvation in Jesus Christ. And therefore his words are hogwash and empty philosophy.

And this guy may have been a social worker but that does not make him a saint. Good works won't qualify anybody for God's kingdom.

Coconut, I won't post any more replies to this thread. I again say, my intention was never to put you down. I know you are a very mature christain and somebody whom I can learn from. I am just speaking by the authority in Christ Jesus as a minister of God.

So, no offense. I love you with the love of Christ. God bless.

I agree. Coconut, I love you but please refrain from quoting any hindu author. This is 100% a Christian site and only Scripture should be quoted as anything Truthful. I don't care for hindu beliefs, neither does GOD. I know you will accept this in love.

Gideon, I appreciate your humiltiy, same to you Coconut. Its nice to know that we can converse with wanting to argue. Some people it is ok to "agree to disagree" (many quoted this before on TJ). Well, I do believe that but when it comes to Scripture we must AGREE WITH THE WORD OF GOD AS IS.

The Holy Spirit is the Author, therefore let HIM speak. When we cannot agree with each other, stop / pause, pray, respond ONLY if the Spirit of GOD tells you to do so. This is seriously speaking without a light tone. I'm stern on this and cannot possibly be as stern as GOD Himself is on His Living Word.

Every person is held responsible for what they speak. If you speak untruthful whether deliberately or not, you face the consequences. You reap what you sow.

God bless, Lord with you.

PS: Let GOD use your mouth, not you from your own heart

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

 

[soul_drummer]

Only thing i wanted to add was about the quote from the Hindu guy. i think in this sense maybe it wasn't needed, i'm not too sure on that..lol. but totally disregarding something like that as in saying we should never use them or look at them or being involved with them isn't scriptural in my book. Paul took pagan poetry and used it to lead them to Christ. i know this was used as a tool, and here in the forums there seems to be no need for tools to lead people to Christ, well, at least in this case^^. so...i'm not saying it was good, just saying to keep an open mind when it comes to things like that, God will give oppurtunities to lead other people to Him, even if it takes us knowing a little bit about something we dont' believe in..
hope that made sense...
if it didn't...lol..uummm...forget the last 30 seconds of your life...hahahaha
God Bless
Bryce