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Women keep silent in the churches

bdavidc

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Jun 17, 2023
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39


1 Corinthians 14:18-40

The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
~ 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

The principle of women not speaking in church services is universal; this applies to all the churches, not just locally, geographically, or culturally. The context in this verse concerns prophecy, but includes the general theme of the chapter, i.e., tongues. Rather than leading, they are to be submissive as God’s Word makes clear (see notes on 1Co 11:3-15; Gen 3:16; 1Ti 2:11-15). It is not coincidental that many modern churches that have tongues-speaking and claim gifts of healings and miracles also permit women to lead worship, preach, and teach. Women may be gifted teachers, but they are not permitted by God “to speak” in churches. In fact, for them to do so is “shameful,” meaning “disgraceful.” Apparently, certain women were out of order in disruptively asking questions publicly in the chaotic services.

I never have understood why this is so hard for people to understand. Must be the old I will do as I please attitude.

Know the Bible
 
It is not wise to quote a contentious passage in isolation. It must be accompanied by a full explanation. Paul would not walk into a meeting, state 1 Cor 14:34 and then walk out.

This topic has been discussed and debated on this site in the past. What is clear from those discussions is that the context of 1 Cor 14:34 is specific to larger general assemblies. The focus point is to keep the meeting peaceful and orderly.

1 Cor 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
1 Cor 14:39 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

We see in 1 Cor 11:5 that woman may pray and prophecy in meetings.

If your thread were to go on for 100 pages of back and forth debate, it will end with this: The only non debatable restriction on woman in meetings is teaching. Teaching, specifically from scripture. What also becomes clear is the fact that many churches today have people at the pulpit 'teaching' that are not actually 'teaching'. This creates a blur on what teaching is exactly, opening the door for woman to 'teach' too. Today we think standing at the pulpit and making people laugh or cry every ten seconds is 'teaching'.
 
I can see why there must be a lot of debate but the bible is very clear about it so trying to change it to say what you want does not change what God said. People will do what they want, but if they don't obey God's word they don't know Him.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
~ Matthew 7:21-23

It is time to quit trying to be God and follow the truth of the Bible.
 


1 Corinthians 14:18-40

The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
~ 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

The principle of women not speaking in church services is universal; this applies to all the churches, not just locally, geographically, or culturally. The context in this verse concerns prophecy, but includes the general theme of the chapter, i.e., tongues. Rather than leading, they are to be submissive as God’s Word makes clear (see notes on 1Co 11:3-15; Gen 3:16; 1Ti 2:11-15). It is not coincidental that many modern churches that have tongues-speaking and claim gifts of healings and miracles also permit women to lead worship, preach, and teach. Women may be gifted teachers, but they are not permitted by God “to speak” in churches. In fact, for them to do so is “shameful,” meaning “disgraceful.” Apparently, certain women were out of order in disruptively asking questions publicly in the chaotic services.

I never have understood why this is so hard for people to understand. Must be the old I will do as I please attitude.

Know the Bible
I do wonder if any Christian has noticed...Believing and teaching this doctrine of demons effectively shuts down half the church. Satan has actually conned the church into cutting half its ranks...half the Christian army is now sitting on the sidelines twiddling their thumbs because Christians choose to believe a lie.....
Try believing what the bible actually says instead of reading what you believe
 
The Church that comes “AGAINST” women teachers the most have no problems with women teaching Sunday school classes as if the location or the building size has anything to do with it!!!

God's anointing is not limited to any specific place. It makes no difference where the Word is being taught, the Holy Spirit is there to work his miracles whether in a small Sunday school room class or a large auditorium!! These Churches are so “HYPOCRITES” in their thinking!!

If women were not allowed to speak for God, or under the control of the Holy Spirit, then there should no place in scriptures where we find women doing so, as God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (He changes not)

The Bible is filled with women speaking under the guidance of the Spirit of God.

Debora was one of Israel,s greatest prophets, and she was also the fourth “judge” to the nation of Israel. She was so loved that the generals of Israel would not go to war unless she went with them into battle!!

Then we have “Miriam, Huldah, Noadiah, and the Prophet Isaiah's wife, whose name we do not know.

In the New Testament, we have the “prophetess Anna” who lived during the time of Jesus. She would prophesy every day to all who would come unto the temple, and she did this day and night!! (Luke 2:36-38)

We have the very first preacher of the New Testament, who just happens to be “Mary Magdaline” who first saw the risen Lord. Jesus tells her.....

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but GO TO MY BRETHREN, AND SAY UNTO THEM, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, and your Father; and to my God and your God.
John 20:18 MARY MAGDALENE CAME AND TOLD THE DISCIPLES that she had seen the Lord and that he had spoken these things unto her.

Notice: Jesus did not say to her, “go find me a man so he can go and preach the Gospel to my brethren”

But does not the Bible teach that WOMEN are to keep silent in the Church?

1Co 14:34 LET YOUR WOMEN KEEP SILENCE IN THE CHURCHES: FOR IT IS NOT PERMITTED UNTO THEM TO SPEAK, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn anything, let them ask THEIR HUSBANDS AT HOME: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


In the Greek language, there is no word for “WIFE” so it used the word “WOMEN”. If we read the very next verse we find out who the Apostle Paul was referring to. Paul was referring to “WIVES” not “WOMEN”.

1 Cor 14:35 And if they (WIFES) will learn anything, let them ask their HUSBANDS at home: for it is a shame for women (WIFES) to speak in the church.

A more modern translation translates it like this....

1Co 14:34 LET MARRIED WOMEN BE SILENT IN THE CHURCHES, for they are not permitted to speak. They must be content with a subordinate place, as the Law also says; (Weymouth)

1Co 14:34 LET THE WIVES BE QUIET IN THE ASSEMBLIES, for it has not been permitted for them to be talking except in submission, as the law also says, (Weba)

It is pretty annoying for anyone whether it be a husband or wife to speak when a Church service is going on.

1Ti 2:11 LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE WITH ALL SUBJECTION.
1Ti 2:12 BUT I SUFFER NOT A WOMAN TO TEACH, NOR TO USURP AUTHORITY OVER THE MAN, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Here again, we find Paul is NOT talking about all women, he is talking about “WIFES”, and “HUSBANDS” which is why he mentions Adam, and Eve who were husband and wife!!

Man is the head of his wife, but only in a “MARRIAGE” CONTRACT!!! I am a man, but I am not the head of any other woman except for my wife!! I am surely not the head of any other man's wife!

If a “HUSBAND” does not take his God-given right to be the head of his family in marriage, I can tell you for sure the “WIFE” will step up to the plate and take on that responsibility herself.

Man is only the head of his wife in “marriage”, but he is not the head of his wife in Christ!!! There is no “MALE” or “FEMALE” in the Lord!!! (Gal 3:28) Christ is the head of the women in the same way Christ is the head of the man in the Lord!! It was very common during the days of Jesus, that women were much less educated than men, but today we do not have that problem as all men and women are equally educated.

1Tim 3:1 This is a true saying, If a MAN desires the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

The word, “MAN” does not mean “MALE”!!! It means “WHOEVER, WHOSOEVER, or ANYONE”!!

We just assume it means a “MAN” (Male). Then it says, that person must be the “HUSBAND” of one wife. This does not mean that this person (WHOEVER, WHOSOEVER, ANYONE) hast to be a man. It says if this person happens to be a MAN, then he must be the husband of just one wife.

Paul does not mention that a woman would have this problem because it was very easy for a man to divorce his wife for almost no reason at all. Women did not have that luxury, under the Old or New Testament, so he does not need to mention it here.

When we find the word “MAN”, or “HE” in these scriptures these words do not mean “MALE” but whoever, whosoever, anyone. The word HE simply means he, or she, or a person.

If the Lord God did not want “WOMEN” to speak or teach in the Church, then the Holy Spirit not to come upon them (women) so that they can!! All 120 people in the upper room along with ALL the WOMEN spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost, declaring the Wonders of God to all who heard them out in the streets and that in a Church setting!!!

Psa 68:11 The Lord gives the word; THE WOMEN WHO ANNOUNCE THE NEWS ARE A GREAT HOST: (ESV)
 
I can see why there must be a lot of debate but the bible is very clear about it so trying to change it to say what you want does not change what God said. People will do what they want, but if they don't obey God's word they don't know Him.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
~ Matthew 7:21-23

It is time to quit trying to be God and follow the truth of the Bible.

The devil quoted scripture when he said jump and angels will catch you. Jesus corrected him by stating scripture ''also'' states, don't tempt God.

In your case, I am telling you, scripture ''also'' states 1 Cor 11:5, 1 Cor 14:33 and 1 Cor 14:39.
 
One cannot take a single verse from the bible and build a doctrine on it. That verse has a context...What is being discussed? Who is involved in the discussion? To get the context of 1 Corinthians 14:18-40 you have to go all the way back to 1 Cor chapter 7 because its all one discussion. 7 Now to deal with the questions you wrote about: “Is it good for a man to keep away from women?” 2 Well, because of the danger of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should give his wife what she is entitled to in the marriage relationship, and the wife should do the same for her husband. 4 The wife is not in charge of her own body, but her husband is; likewise, the husband is not in charge of his own body, but his wife is. 5 Do not deprive each other, except for a limited time, by mutual agreement, and then only so as to have extra time for prayer; but afterwards, come together again. Otherwise, because of your lack of self-control, you may succumb to the Adversary’s temptation. 6 I am giving you this as a suggestion, not as a command. 7 Actually, I wish everyone were like me; but each has his own gift from God, one this, another that......That's the beginning of it....Paul is talking "Responsa"
Responsa is basically where questions are asked and the answers are already recorded in thousands of books, all based on the law. "Ask the Rabbi" if you will. So Paul was given a list of questions and beginning with chapter 7 he started answering them.....Friends, its up to you now to rightly devide....What are the questions and what are the answers?

Now to deal with the questions you wrote about: Question.....“Is it good for a man to keep away from women?” Answer.....2 Well, because of the danger of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should give his wife what she is entitled to in the marriage relationship, and the wife should do the same for her husband. 4 The wife is not in charge of her own body, but her husband is; likewise, the husband is not in charge of his own body, but his wife is. 5 Do not deprive each other, except for a limited time, by mutual agreement, and then only so as to have extra time for prayer; but afterwards, come together again. Otherwise, because of your lack of self-control, you may succumb to the Adversary’s temptation. 6 I am giving you this as a suggestion, not as a command. 7 Actually, I wish everyone were like me; but each has his own gift from God, one this, another that. and so on.....
 

1 Corinthians 14:18-40​

Answer continuing......​

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you, 19 but in a congregation meeting I would rather say five words with my mind in order to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue!​


20 Brothers, don’t be children in your thinking. In evil, be like infants; but in your thinking, be grown-up. 21 In the Torah it is written,
“By other tongues,
by the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people.
But even then they will not listen to me,”

says Adonai.[a]

22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole congregation comes together with everybody speaking in tongues, and uninstructed people or unbelievers come in, won’t they say you’re crazy? 24 But if you all prophesy, and some unbeliever or uninstructed person enters, he is convicted of sin by all, he is brought under judgment by all, 25 and the secrets of his heart are laid bare; so he falls on his face and worships God, saying, “God is really here among you!”

26 What is our conclusion, brothers? Whenever you come together, let everyone be ready with a psalm or a teaching or a revelation, or ready to use his gift of tongues or give an interpretation; but let everything be for edification. 27 If the gift of tongues is exercised, let it be by two or at most three, and each in turn; and let someone interpret. 28 And if there is no one present who can interpret, let the people who speak in tongues keep silent when the congregation meets — they can speak to themselves and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, while the others weigh what is said. 30 And if something is revealed to a prophet who is sitting down, let the first one be silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, with the result that all will learn something and all will be encouraged. 32 Also, the prophets’ spirits are under the prophets’ control; 33 for God is not a God of unruliness but of shalom.

Question........
As in all the congregations of God’s people, 34 let the wives remain silent when the congregation meets; they are certainly not permitted to speak out. Rather, let them remain subordinate, as also the Torah says; 35 and if there is something they want to know, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for a woman to speak out in a congregational meeting.

Answer.......

36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or is endowed with the Spirit, let him acknowledge that what I am writing you is a command of the Lord. 38 But if someone doesn’t recognize this, then let him remain unrecognized.


39 So, my brothers, eagerly seek to prophesy; and do not forbid speaking in tongues; 40 but let all things be done in a proper and orderly way.


Just for your edification, the Torah does NOT say that women should keep silent If you really want to know if women should keep silent...Start with chapter 7 and read it all....The questions then the answers...and let the Holy Spirit guide you in rightly dividing between questions and answers.....
 
The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11–14 makes the reason why women cannot be pastors perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for,” giving the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11–12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived” (verses 13–14). God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. The order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22–33) and in the church.

The fact that Eve was deceived is also given as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men (1 Timothy 2:14). This does not mean that women are gullible or that they are all more easily deceived than men. If all women are more easily deceived, why would they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? The text simply says that women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. God has chosen to give men the primary teaching authority in the church.

Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helping/serving. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18–20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).

God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This does not imply men are better teachers or that women are inferior or less intelligent. It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are also to set an example in their lives, but in a different way (1 Peter 3:1-6). Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3–5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This bars women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means; rather, it gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s design.
 

Scripture Twisting Methods of the Cults​

You will answer to God for trying to make the bible say what you want it to so you can disobey Him.
 
The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11–14 makes the reason why women cannot be pastors perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for,” giving the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11–12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived” (verses 13–14). God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. The order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22–33) and in the church.

The fact that Eve was deceived is also given as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men (1 Timothy 2:14). This does not mean that women are gullible or that they are all more easily deceived than men. If all women are more easily deceived, why would they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? The text simply says that women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. God has chosen to give men the primary teaching authority in the church.

Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helping/serving. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18–20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).

God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This does not imply men are better teachers or that women are inferior or less intelligent. It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are also to set an example in their lives, but in a different way (1 Peter 3:1-6). Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3–5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This bars women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means; rather, it gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s design.

bdavidc

When you use a verse to prove your point, wouldn't it be wise to be sure your 'interpretation' of that verse meshes with the rest of the bible? The law does NOT forbid a woman to teach or preach or any such thing. Paul had at least two women on his team. There was one Cloe and I think it was Pricilla along with her husband whom call called a teacher, a preacher.....so your translation of that verse actually clashes with the rest of the book.....As you say my friend....Get it right or get gone.
 
Does any know the situation that Paul was addressing? Without that we're just spitting in the wind.
 
Does any know the situation that Paul was addressing? Without that we're just spitting in the wind.

Why do things written in the Bible have to be for a specific situation?

Don't commit adultery. That isn't a rule for a specific situation. It's an all the time rule, no matter what the situation.
People say cultures change, maybe so. But God doesn't. If He said don't do it 2,000 years ago, He probably still doesn't want you to do it.

Can women be ministry? Sure, obviously they were in New testament times.
Were they the head of the congregation, and did they have spiritual authority over men? Not that I can see anywhere in the Bible.
 
Why do things written in the Bible have to be for a specific situation?

Don't commit adultery. That isn't a rule for a specific situation. It's an all the time rule, no matter what the situation.
People say cultures change, maybe so. But God doesn't. If He said don't do it 2,000 years ago, He probably still doesn't want you to do it.

Can women be ministry? Sure, obviously they were in New testament times.
Were they the head of the congregation, and did they have spiritual authority over men? Not that I can see anywhere in the Bible.
Because if we don't known what he's addressing we don't know how apply his answer.
 
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