Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

worship

want to talk about the Sabbath -v- Sunday worship

There's not much to talk about.

The Scripture said that Christ fulfilled the Law, that includes the keeping of the Sabbath Day.

The rest found in the Sabbath Day was transferred to Christ by faith when He was nailed on that Cross and rose from the dead on the third day.

Christ is the Sabbath, where our rest is found in Him.
 
The Ten Commandments have been with God from Creation and will be with us on the New Earth "... and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship me, saith the Lord." (Isaiah 66:23) Moses did not write the ten Commandments; they were given to him by God. The Ten Commandments are not part of the Law of Moses or any part of the old Mosaic Law. "Do not think that I come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matt 5:17) The Sabbath is mentioned 60 times in the NT alone and all have to do with the 7th day Sabbath but on which refences an annual Sabbath. God made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27). Jesus kept it (Luke 4:16), Paul kept it (Acts 17:2), and Gentiles kept it (Acts 13:42-44; 16:13)
 
Organized Sunday Worship is not Biblical, it is a counterfeit Sabbath, a golden calf. The Ten Commandments sat "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy..." (Exodus 20:2-17 & Deuteronomy 5:2-21) The fourth commandment does not say chose a day (Sunday). God only set one day apart from the rest and blessed it, sanctified it and hallowed it. (Genesis 2:2) (Exodus 20:11) We worship God every day of the week, even on the 1st day. All of the instances for the getting together on the first day of the week mentioned in the NT were for fellowship, not changing the day of worship the Sabbath.
 
The Ten Commandments have been with God from Creation and will be with us on the New Earth "... and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship me, saith the Lord." (Isaiah 66:23) Moses did not write the ten Commandments; they were given to him by God. The Ten Commandments are not part of the Law of Moses or any part of the old Mosaic Law. "Do not think that I come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matt 5:17) The Sabbath is mentioned 60 times in the NT alone and all have to do with the 7th day Sabbath but on which refences an annual Sabbath. God made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27). Jesus kept it (Luke 4:16), Paul kept it (Acts 17:2), and Gentiles kept it (Acts 13:42-44; 16:13)

The Law of Moses is divided into 3 parts,

The Moral Law, (the 10 commandments).

The Judicial Law

The Ceremonial Law.

The Moral Law will stand forever, that is, the instructional part of it. For example, it was wrong to steal 2500 years ago and it's still wrong today.

Paul told us in Colossians 2:16-17,

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

The Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) was instituted to point to the rest we find in Christ. In fact, the entire Law of Moses pointed to Christ.

Matt. 11:28-29

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls."
 
Col 2:16-17 is being interpreted wrong. He is talking to believers stating not to let non-believers judge them in those things. The 7th day Sabbath is not just a Jewish Sabbath.
Q: Where the Ten Commandments with God at creation?
Q: Did Moses write the Ten Commandments or where the given to him by God?
Q: Are the Ten Commandments mentioned throughout the NT?
Q: If the Ten Commandments are done away with, why are we told to obey them throughout the NT?
Q: Does Isaiah 66:23 state the 7th day Sabbath will be with us on the New Earth?
Q: Why did Jesus and his followers keep the Commandments and the Sabbath?
Q: Was any other day set aside by God and blessed, Sanctified and hallowed?
Q: Can you show me scripture where the salinity of the Sammath was changed to Sunday?
Q: Do you know the history of The Sabbath and where Sunday worship comes from?
It Started way back with the Protestant Reformation, the gentiles wanted to separate themselves from the Jews who were being persecuted by the Romans, so they changed from the 7th Sabbath and started meeting on Sunday. Next came the Roman ruler Constine whom worshiped the Sun god. He was the first to implement a law for Sunday worship and making the 7th day, the Sabbath a crime. Then came the Roman Catholic Church that has formed it into what it is today.
Organized Sunday worship is not Biblical, Itis a counterfeit, a golden calf. (Matt 15:9) "In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.", (Mark 7:8) "you leave the commandments of God and hold to the tradition of men."
God speed Danny
 
John 5:16; For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath.
John 5:17; But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working."
John 5:18; For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

Matt 12:10; And a man was there whose hand was withered. And they questioned Jesus, asking, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"—so that they might accuse Him.
Matt 12:11; And He said to them, "What man is there among you who has a sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out?
Matt 12:12; "How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."
Matt 12:13; Then He *said to the man, "Stretch out your hand!" He stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other.

Mark 2:23; And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain.
Mark 2:24; The Pharisees were saying to Him, "Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?"
Mark 2:25; And He *said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and he and his companions became hungry;
Mark 2:26; how he entered the house of God in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the consecrated bread, which is not lawful for anyone to eat except the priests, and he also gave it to those who were with him?"
Mark 2:27; Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

Luke 13:10; And He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath.
Luke 13:11; And there was a woman who for eighteen years had had a sickness caused by a spirit; and she was bent double, and could not straighten up at all.
Luke 13:12; When Jesus saw her, He called her over and said to her, "Woman, you are freed from your sickness."
Luke 13:13; And He laid His hands on her; and immediately she was made erect again and began glorifying God.
Luke 13:14; But the synagogue official, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, began saying to the crowd in response, "There are six days in which work should be done; so come during them and get healed, and not on the Sabbath day."
Luke 13:15; But the Lord answered him and said, "You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him?
Luke 13:16; "And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?"

That's twice Jesus healed on the Sabbath, there is a third one also. Also his disciples gleaned grain of the Sabbath and Jesus justified it.
So then.. did Jesus sin?

Heb 4:15; For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are,
yet without sin.
2Cor 5:21; He made
Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Every one of the 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament except one. Guess which one.
 
Col 2:16-17 is being interpreted wrong. He is talking to believers stating not to let non-believers judge them in those things. The 7th day Sabbath is not just a Jewish Sabbath.
Q: Where the Ten Commandments with God at creation?
Q: Did Moses write the Ten Commandments or where the given to him by God?
Q: Are the Ten Commandments mentioned throughout the NT?
Q: If the Ten Commandments are done away with, why are we told to obey them throughout the NT?
Q: Does Isaiah 66:23 state the 7th day Sabbath will be with us on the New Earth?
Q: Why did Jesus and his followers keep the Commandments and the Sabbath?
Q: Was any other day set aside by God and blessed, Sanctified and hallowed?
Q: Can you show me scripture where the salinity of the Sammath was changed to Sunday?
Q: Do you know the history of The Sabbath and where Sunday worship comes from?
It Started way back with the Protestant Reformation, the gentiles wanted to separate themselves from the Jews who were being persecuted by the Romans, so they changed from the 7th Sabbath and started meeting on Sunday. Next came the Roman ruler Constine whom worshiped the Sun god. He was the first to implement a law for Sunday worship and making the 7th day, the Sabbath a crime. Then came the Roman Catholic Church that has formed it into what it is today.
Organized Sunday worship is not Biblical, Itis a counterfeit, a golden calf. (Matt 15:9) "In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.", (Mark 7:8) "you leave the commandments of God and hold to the tradition of men."
God speed Danny

If you wat to argue the purpose of the Law, and whether we are held to the Law since Christ came, then argue it with the Apostle Paul.

Romans 10:1-4

"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
 
Paul is speaking of the nation not all the individuals.
There may only be 3 individual Israelis saved, but all Israel at that point WILL be saved.
NOT the whole country (individuals)
 
Paul is speaking of the nation not all the individuals.
There may only be 3 individual Israelis saved, but all Israel at that point WILL be saved.
NOT the whole country (individuals)

According to Zechariah, only 1/3 of Israel will be alive when Christ returns, 2/3 having been killed by the Anti-Christ.

That 1/3 is the remnant of Israel that will be saved, but of course, the scattered Jews all over the world will accept their Messiah also at this time and be gathered by the angels and place in Israel.
 
yea: but my point is the Commandments where with us a creation, Moses did not write them, they were given to him by God, and they will be with us and observed on the New Earth. (Isaiah 66:23)
The Ten Commandments are not in any way part of Moses Law or any part of the old mosaic law.
Only the 7th day was blessed, sanctified, and hallowed by God. Man cannot change the Sabbath! God started his work on the first day of the week he rested on the 7th.
Yes, Jesus and others did good works (Matt 12:10-12) They meet and break bread and fellowship on Sunday and even preach but they in no way tried or claimed to change the validity of the Sabbath.
Remember the warning about changing of times and laws (Daniel 7:25)
I just do not believe there is scripture supporting organized Sunday worship as it is today. Most people don't even know the history of how it came about and just follow along blindly every Sunday.
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his Commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4)
The NT alone has so many warnings about not following Gods commandments and laws, warnings about false teachings and teachers, preachers, prophets ....
Look up the Sabbath at BibleTools.org
Love you all, you are in my prayers, God speed, Danny.
 
PS: I'm sorry if you think in any way, I was or am trying to argue. I am just trying to share what I know or believe to be true. We all have different points of view, but at the same time there are so may lost.
I love everyone and just want to help if I can.
So once again I apologize if I have offended anyone. Danny
 
yea: but my point is the Commandments where with us a creation, Moses did not write them, they were given to him by God, and they will be with us and observed on the New Earth. (Isaiah 66:23)
The Ten Commandments are not in any way part of Moses Law or any part of the old mosaic law.
Only the 7th day was blessed, sanctified, and hallowed by God. Man cannot change the Sabbath! God started his work on the first day of the week he rested on the 7th.
Yes, Jesus and others did good works (Matt 12:10-12) They meet and break bread and fellowship on Sunday and even preach but they in no way tried or claimed to change the validity of the Sabbath.
Remember the warning about changing of times and laws (Daniel 7:25)
I just do not believe there is scripture supporting organized Sunday worship as it is today. Most people don't even know the history of how it came about and just follow along blindly every Sunday.
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his Commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4)
The NT alone has so many warnings about not following Gods commandments and laws, warnings about false teachings and teachers, preachers, prophets ....
Look up the Sabbath at BibleTools.org
Love you all, you are in my prayers, God speed, Danny.

Exodus 24:12

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.”

Any and everything that God gave to Moses to give to the people was the Law of Moses.

As far as Sunday worship, their is no direct command on which day it is held in the Scripture.

Paul told the Church to lay aside on the first day of the week (Sunday) your offerings, that there be no gathering when I come.

The theologians say that Paul wanted to distinguish from the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) because Christ had fulfilled all the Law for us. Which no man could do then or now.

Romans 8:3-5

"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."
 
"So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath..." (Acts 13:42)
Q: God set only one specific day apart from the rest and blessed it, sanctified it and hallowed it. Which day would that be?
"1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God." (John 1:1-2) The Ten Commandments were with us at Creation, "Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and MY laws." (Genesis 26:5) God established the 4th Commandment on the 7th day of creation. "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy,..." (Exodus 20:2-17 & Deut 5:6-21) and there are more.
The Ten Commandments were given to Moses by God, Moses did not write them, He was to give the Law to the people nothing more.
Jesus is our sacrificial lamb, and that's why we're not under the old mosaic laws, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. (Matt 5:17) We always have and always will be under Gods Commandments and Laws, even on the New Earth, "...and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord." (Isaiah 66:23)
Q: Do most Christians even know the history of Sunday worship or just follow along blindly?
*The Protestant reformation, *Constine and Sun worship, *The Roman Catholic Church.
Look up the Sabbath at BibbleTools.org, love you, always seek the truth & God speed Danny
 
Do you believe Jesus was born on Dec. 25th and in Christmas?
When was Crist resurrected?
 
"So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath..." (Acts 13:42)
Q: God set only one specific day apart from the rest and blessed it, sanctified it and hallowed it. Which day would that be?
"1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God." (John 1:1-2) The Ten Commandments were with us at Creation, "Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and MY laws." (Genesis 26:5) God established the 4th Commandment on the 7th day of creation. "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy,..." (Exodus 20:2-17 & Deut 5:6-21) and there are more.
The Ten Commandments were given to Moses by God, Moses did not write them, He was to give the Law to the people nothing more.
Jesus is our sacrificial lamb, and that's why we're not under the old mosaic laws, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. (Matt 5:17) We always have and always will be under Gods Commandments and Laws, even on the New Earth, "...and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord." (Isaiah 66:23)
Q: Do most Christians even know the history of Sunday worship or just follow along blindly?
*The Protestant reformation, *Constine and Sun worship, *The Roman Catholic Church.
Look up the Sabbath at BibbleTools.org, love you, always seek the truth & God speed Danny

Paul was light years ahead of the 12 apostles in the knowledge of the New Covenant. In Acts 13 where you quote, the apostles were still meeting on the Jewish Sabbath. They didn't know what Paul knew, but would later learn.

Paul was given by Christ the meaning of the New Covenant, and the apostles learned from Paul that meaning, and were later given this knowledge also by the Holy Spirit. Paul is the one who set the Church in order.

Ephesians 3:1-12

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
 
Do you believe Jesus was born on Dec. 25th and in Christmas?
When was Crist resurrected?

No one really knows when He was born, but it's pretty sure that it wasn't in December. The theologians point out that the shepherds in the fields tending the flocks would not have been there at that time of the year. But who really knows?

Christ was crucified on a Wednesday and rose from the dead early on the first day of the week (Sunday).

His body laid in the tomb exactly 3 days and 3 nights just as He said.

There was a special sabbath that year that fell on Friday, making Friday and Saturday both Sabbaths that year. The preparation day for the Sabbath at this time was Thursday rather than the usual Friday.

He was crucified on Wed. and the Jews had to take him down from the Cross before sunset, because Thursday began at sunset ad was the preparation day for the Sabbath.
 
You stated "Christ was crucified on a Wednesday and rose from the dead early on the first day of the week (Sunday)." if he was placed in the tomb in the evening just before sunset. and was buried for exactly 3 days / 72hrs how do you get a morning resurrection?

Burial - Matt 27:57 "as evening approached", Mark 15:42 "It was Preparation Day (The Next day was a high day, an annual Sabbath) So as evening approached", Luke 23:54 "It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin", (Same reference to the High Day or annual Sabbath not the weekly 7th day Sabbath.) John 19:42 "Because it was the Jewish Day of Preparation..." Jesus was buried as evening approached before the next day began, because it was a High Day an annual Sabbath.

Resurrection - Matt 28:1-6 (1) ... at dawn on the first day of the week (6) He is not here he has risen (this statement is in the past tense, already done. It does not imply he rose Sunday morning.) Mark 16: 1-6 (6)"...He has risen" (States the same thing, past tense already done.) Luke 24:1-6 (6)"He is not here, but is risen ... " (States the same thing, past tense) John 20:1-16 (1) Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark (all the information given in John)

Q. If Crist was buried in the evening just before sunset and for exactly 3 days (72hrs) how did he rise in the morning?

Christ was place in the tomb on the 4th day of the week in the evening just before sunset because the following day was a High Day / Annual Sabbath. So, three full days would put his Resurrection on the 7th day in the evening just before sunset and the new day Sunday started. This is the way Scripture lays it out!

Thanx, good speed Danny
 
You stated "Christ was crucified on a Wednesday and rose from the dead early on the first day of the week (Sunday)." if he was placed in the tomb in the evening just before sunset. and was buried for exactly 3 days / 72hrs how do you get a morning resurrection?

Burial - Matt 27:57 "as evening approached", Mark 15:42 "It was Preparation Day (The Next day was a high day, an annual Sabbath) So as evening approached", Luke 23:54 "It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin", (Same reference to the High Day or annual Sabbath not the weekly 7th day Sabbath.) John 19:42 "Because it was the Jewish Day of Preparation..." Jesus was buried as evening approached before the next day began, because it was a High Day an annual Sabbath.

Resurrection - Matt 28:1-6 (1) ... at dawn on the first day of the week (6) He is not here he has risen (this statement is in the past tense, already done. It does not imply he rose Sunday morning.) Mark 16: 1-6 (6)"...He has risen" (States the same thing, past tense already done.) Luke 24:1-6 (6)"He is not here, but is risen ... " (States the same thing, past tense) John 20:1-16 (1) Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark (all the information given in John)

Q. If Crist was buried in the evening just before sunset and for exactly 3 days (72hrs) how did he rise in the morning?

Christ was place in the tomb on the 4th day of the week in the evening just before sunset because the following day was a High Day / Annual Sabbath. So, three full days would put his Resurrection on the 7th day in the evening just before sunset and the new day Sunday started. This is the way Scripture lays it out!

Thanx, good speed Danny

When Mary Magdalene found Him, He had already been risen form the dead some 12 hours.

Christ crucified on Wed. and buried around sunset which began Thur.

So from sunset to sunset Thur. to Fri. is one day.

Sunset to sunset Fri. to Sat. is two days.

Sunset to sunset Sat. to Sun. is three days.

Christ rose from the dead sometime around sunset beginning the new day on Sunday. Which means around 12 hours later Mary Magdalene found Him in the Garden on Sunday morning.
 
They could not of buried Jesus on Thursday for it was a High Day an annual Sabbath, a day of rest, and the math does not add up for a morning resurrection. If it was for exactly 72hrs it would be an evening resurrection.
and the Bible tells us about the last supper and Day of unleavened bread. (Matt 26: 17-21) (Mark 14: 12-18) (Luke 22: 7-14) John shows Jesus finishing supper and preparing himself to be crucified. (John 13: 1-4)
>Jesus was placed in the tomb on the 4th day of the week in the evening just before sunset, because the following day was a High Day / an annual Sabbath, so they rested on the 5th day of the week. The women got everything together the following day, the 6th day of the week, a Preparation Day because the next day was the 7th day of the week which was the weekly Sabbath. All the references to Sunday morning are only stating when people started showing up at the Tomb to find it empty. Nothing suggests that Jesus rose that morning. "he is not here, he has risen" "he has risen" all imply past tense, already done. Jesus rose on the 7th day of the week in the evening just before sunset.
Burial - Matt 27:57 "as evening approached" Mark 15:42 "It was Preparation Day (A high day, the day before an annual Sabbath) So as evening approached" Luke 23:54 "It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. John 19:42 "Because it was the Jewish Day of Preparation..." Jesus was buried at as evening approached before the next day began, because it was a High Day.
Resurrection - Matt 28:1-6 (1)... at dawn on the first day of the week (6) He is not here he has risen (this statement is in the past tense, already done. It does not imply he rose Sunday morning.) Mark 16: 1-6 (6)"...He has risen" (States the same thing, past tense already done.) Luke 24:1-6 States the same thing, past tense) John 20:1-16 (1) Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark (all the information given in John)
Q. If Crist was buried in the evening just before sunset and for exactly 3 days (72hrs) how did he rise in the morning?
God speed, Danny
 
Back
Top