Dispensational Truth

[Soyeong]

Hello @Soyeong,

In what way was that done? I do not recognise this from my experience.

Thank you for sharing the product of your study, it is appreciated,
but it does not confirm your words regarding the principle of right division.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour
our Lord and Head
Chris

Do you affirm or deny that Dispensationalism teaches a division between the dispensation of Grace and the dispensation of Law?

 

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Do you affirm or deny that Dispensationalism teaches a division between the dispensation of Grace and the dispensation of Law?

Hello @Soyeong,

I cannot deny what is so obviously Scriptural. Was that what you intended to portray in your entry? if so, I am afraid I did not understand you.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Garee]

And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him.
And He began to say unto them,
"This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."'
(Luke 4:21)

Hello again, @Garee,

Even at the age of 12 years our Lord was astonishing the doctors of divinity at the temple in Jerusalem, wasn't He?

'And it came to pass, that after three days they found Him in the temple,
sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
And all that heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.'
(Luke 2:46-47)

Praise God!

Our Lord and our God!

Yes the word of God is astonishing at any point in history . God's work of faith as labor of his love has been finished from the foundation.

It's not time periods we are to rightly divide as the law of faith. . . the reward of Christ grace working in us .Grace has has nothing to do with time more to do with power to raise. .

It boils down to two words "thousand years" found in the last chapter of the bible . Six times in Revelation 20. 2 in the old and 1 in2nd Peter .

It depends on whether we follow the "signified instruction" of parable to rightly divide or mankind literalize the thousand years where possibly 1/3 of mankind disappears then reappear for some reason? What is the bottom line of reasoning signified or literalize . or possibly the mix ?

Revelation King James Version1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

He did not send it without signifying it using it a a pattern . .There was no instruction to literalize it. . looking to the temporal things see without the spiritual value of the parable.

 

[Soyeong]

Hello @Soyeong,

I cannot deny what is so obviously Scriptural. Was that what you intended to portray in your entry? if so, I am afraid I did not understand you.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes, I explained why it is not scriptural by showing that the the Mosaic and New Covenants are both covenants of law and grace. Thinking that there are dispensations of law and grace is incompatible with thinking that God does not change.

 

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Yes, I explained why it is not scriptural by showing that the the Mosaic and New Covenants are both covenants of law and grace. Thinking that there are dispensations of law and grace is incompatible with thinking that God does not change.

'For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
(Eph 3:1)

Hello @Soyeong:

The verse above speaks of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to Paul to administer, which he subsequently did, in the letters written from prison, to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy and Titus, Philemon being of a more personal nature .

As the old covenant was made with Israel, so will the new covenant be: as is seen in Jeremiah 31:31. It is in abeyance at this present time, due to the nation of Israel's rejection of Christ as their Messiah and King..

I do not want this thread to degenerate into a thread concerning law and grace, @Soyeong.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Garee]

Another perspective .More than one way to look at it or as some say skin a wild cat. LOL

I would think focusing on the subject "grace" as the "power of faith " (God's labor) By grace I think we can come to a conclusion on the whole matter .

The words of faith are the labor of another's love. The word faith mixed with the word grace and works can cause much confusion and division. Faith is altogether one work of grace.. . unmerited favor.

By grace through a work of Christ's faith or called a labor of his love. He had mercy of Abel. Same grace he has on us today Faith is a work of God.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 3:1-3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

How that by revelation he made known the grace that already was working in men (Philippians 2:13) to both reveal his will and empower by a work of his faith mankind to do it to his good pleasure

In that way it did not become a mystery but by a work of Christ faith he revealed it. to his glory

The parable as a mystery was not made know until it was fulfilled by the suffering prophet that other prophets spoke of . .Grace was available before the 3 day and night promised demonstration of God pouring out his love .

Ephesians 3: 4-7 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known(understood) unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Same words of faith (power and strength) food that the apostles at first knew not of .. Food to hear the will of God (ears to hear) and empower Jesus to finish it to the glory of the fathers.. Powerful words of faith "let there be". . .it was seen as "good".

1 Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the
words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

1 Peter 1 I believe provides a commentary of the mystery was not made know until it was fulfilled by the suffering prophet that other prophets spoke of.

There it shows our gift of faith Christ laboe r of love. That is received from the first hearing of the gospel as a anchor to our new soul

In the old testament all of the ceremonial laws and instruments used furniture to represent the holy of hollies' the unseen things of God they were all used as a shadow pointed ahead to the three day and night promised demonstration

1 Peter1: 9-12 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched (The mystery spoken of in Ephesians 3) . diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Follow the glory trail we look back to that glory they looked ahead by the same power of Christ's labor of love. The let there be good power. . .

 

[Soyeong]

'For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
(Eph 3:1)

Hello @Soyeong:

The verse above speaks of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to Paul to administer, which he subsequently did, in the letters written from prison, to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy and Titus, Philemon being of a more personal nature .

As the old covenant was made with Israel, so will the new covenant be: as is seen in Jeremiah 31:31. It is in abeyance at this present time, due to the nation of Israel's rejection of Christ as their Messiah and King..

I do not want this thread to degenerate into a thread concerning law and grace, @Soyeong.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

What Paul was speaking about in Ephesians 3:1 is not the same as the whole system of theology that has been concocted around that verse. Which covenant(s) do you consider yourself to be under?

 

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What Paul was speaking about in Ephesians 3:1 is not the same as the whole system of theology that has been concocted around that verse. Which covenant(s) do you consider yourself to be under?

Hello @Saveong;

Re. Ephesians 3:1. I just believe what it says, and rejoice in it. I will leave the subject of covenants for another thread.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Soyeong]

Hello @Saveong;

Re. Ephesians 3:1. I just believe what it says, and rejoice in it. I will leave the subject of covenants for another thread.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

While Paul spoke about a dispensation of grace, he did not speak about it as being a period of time or for a specific group of people and he did not speak about how many other dispensations there are or about what those dispensations are. So it is one thing to believe Ephesians 3:1 and another thing to believe the whole system of theology that has been built up around it without regard to what other verses say. For example, I've show that God has been gracious to people all throughout the Bible, not just in the NT.

 

[Garee]

What Paul was speaking about in Ephesians 3:1 is not the same as the whole system of theology that has been concocted around that verse. Which covenant(s) do you consider yourself to be under?

Exactly the mystery was made known. The mystery did not begin at the cross it began being fulfilled with Able as shadow pointing ahead to the 3 days and nights demonstration .

 

[Soyeong]

Exactly the mystery was made known. The mystery did not begin at the cross it began being fulfilled with Able as shadow pointing ahead to the 3 days and nights demonstration .

The mystery is rooted in the so-called dispensation of Law, yet you've built up a theology around the dispensation of Grace that is contrary to it.

 

[Garee]

The mystery is rooted in the so-called dispensation of Law, yet you've built up a theology around the dispensation of Grace that is contrary to it.

I have been in agreement with you . God works through one dispensation built on Mercy mixed with Grace . It began with the apostle Abel.

God is not served by human hands as a will.

I lean toward the Amil position no literal thousand years . .according to the signified understanding spoken of in the opening (verse 1).

We rightly divide (interpret) the word . . . . not time periods

 

[complete]

While Paul spoke about a dispensation of grace, he did not speak about it as being a period of time or for a specific group of people and he did not speak about how many other dispensations there are or about what those dispensations are. So it is one thing to believe Ephesians 3:1 and another thing to believe the whole system of theology that has been built up around it without regard to what other verses say. For example, I've show that God has been gracious to people all throughout the Bible, not just in the NT.

Hello @Soyeong,

A dispensation is an administration, and not merely a period of time, and throughout Scripture there are changes in administration, which cannot be denied. The fact that God has been gracious to people all throughout time is not at issue, that does not take from what is evident, that Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ (John 1:17).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

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Soyeong said:
What Paul was speaking about in Ephesians 3:1 is not the same as the whole system of theology that has been concocted around that verse. Which covenant(s) do you consider yourself to be under?

Exactly the mystery was made known. The mystery did not begin at the cross it began being fulfilled with Able as shadow pointing ahead to the 3 days and nights demonstration .

Hello @Garee & @Soyeong,

First of all @Soyeong, I am not under a covenant of any kind. The covenant was made with Christ before the foundation of the world.

@Garee, 'The Mystery of Christ' is the subject of the whole of Scripture, is it not? Expressed in the Old Testament by type and shadow, and fulfilled in the New, in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, God's Only Begotten Son, and revealed to the Apostles and Prophets of the New Testament by revelation from above.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Garee]

Hello @Garee & @Soyeong,

First of all @Soyeong, I am not under a covenant of any kind. The covenant was made with Christ before the foundation of the world.

@Garee, 'The Mystery of Christ' is the subject of the whole of Scripture, is it not? Expressed in the Old Testament by type and shadow, and fulfilled in the New, in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, God's Only Begotten Son, and revealed to the Apostles and Prophets of the New Testament by revelation from above.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I would agree the mystery of grace has been hid in parables from the beginning .

But not the power of grace. God exercises it as a labor of His Love from the beginning with Abel the first apostle, martyr .Fruit of His Spirit .

There is more than one level of understanding. The literal historical on the surface the temporal what the eyes see.. . .mixed with a little digging. . . finding the unseen eternal according to the prescription for rightly dividing the parables

2 Corinthians 4:18 King James Version1 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Without parables the signided understanding. Christ spoke not.

Parables as prophecy are spoken in the new as well as the the old

It would seem that the opening statement in the book of prophecy is a parable .God using the things seen to teach us of the mysteries of faith . The purpose of parables teach us how to walk by the faith of Christ that believers are yoked with .

The law of Christ's faith . Let there be Light. . and the presence of God was very Good . God is light and not that he can only create it temporally (under the Sun)

The dividing principle used in parables . . 2 Corinthians 4:18 must be applied

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Again hid in the literal historical as the signified or called hidden manna in Revelation 2:17 using the temporal historical to reveal the unseen eternal .

 

[Soyeong]

Hello @Garee & @Soyeong,

First of all @Soyeong, I am not under a covenant of any kind. The covenant was made with Christ before the foundation of the world.

Even the covenant in Genesis 9:8-17?

We would still be obligated to obey God even before He made any covenants with man, so his covenants are not the source of our obligation to act in accordance with His nature, but rather God's sovereignty is the source of our obligation. If God's covenants were the source of our obligation and people had the freedom to not be any of them, then God would not be able to justly judge to world for their sin.

 

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Even the covenant in Genesis 9:8-17?

We would still be obligated to obey God even before He made any covenants with man, so his covenants are not the source of our obligation to act in accordance with His nature, but rather God's sovereignty is the source of our obligation. If God's covenants were the source of our obligation and people had the freedom to not be any of them, then God would not be able to justly judge to world for their sin.

'And I will remember My covenant,
which is between Me (God) and you (Noah & his sons) and every living creature of all flesh;
and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.'
(Gen 9:15)

Hello @Soyeong,

Yes, Genesis 9:9-17 is a covenant God made with all flesh upon the earth, so obviously this includes me too.

'And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them,
.. Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
.... And the fear of you and the dread of you
...... shall be upon every beast of the earth,
........ and upon every fowl of the air,
.......... upon all that moveth upon the earth,
............ and upon all the fishes of the sea;
.............. into your hand are they delivered.
Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you;
.. even as the green herb have I given you all things.
.... But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
...... And surely your blood of your lives will I require;
........ at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man;
.......... at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
............ Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed:
.............. for in the image of God made He man.
And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply;
.. bring forth abundantly in the earth,
.... and multiply therein.
...... And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
........ And I, behold, I establish My covenant with you,
.......... and with your seed after you; ... '
(Gen 9:1-9)

* I glimpse the presence of the Kinsman-Redeemer here, in the words, 'at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man'.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris