Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[Brightfame52]

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..Eph 2:3

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..

But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in Rom 4:5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus Christ [Rom 5: 18-19] while we are dead in trespasses and sins,

while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see, most false teachers today think that Rom 8 :33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

Thats why its of grace. Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its by grace because of the sinful condition we are in by nature when we are Justified before God..

 

[Johanabrahams]

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The Milk of the Babies. Not many in the religion of Christianity has finished their Milk and are able to eat their Meat. Only those able to speak well on the Righteousness by Faith are Real teachers. As is evidently the case here. Meaning that nobody who can not speak on this thread is any teacher at all. They have to enter drinking their Milk and start speaking here before they can speak on the "so called Meat" which all say they are speaking on. But in deceit. Because this is the very first Words of the Babies of God. Nobody can speak on Meat if they can not speak fluently on The Milk.

Hebrews 5:
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

First that by nature we are ungodly,

Yep. So true. Not one will disagree with this. All are sinners. All are separated from God in Adam and hiding from Him in their own conscience Judging them as sinners.

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus Christ [Rom 5: 18-19] while we are dead in trespasses and sins,

So True. We were always Righteousness in the mind and heart of God. Because He always had His Sacrifice in mind. And in time He came to manifest and do it. That is why even before His death there was no need for the "harlot" caught to die. And this was the Great Pulling Force of Jesus who pulled thousands to His teachings. The Beautiful Words of God's Grace flowing from His teachings and suiting the sinners hearts. But of course we only really fathom the dept of it after the Holy Spirit was poured out on "all flesh". And now is the time to really Drink our Milk till we are satisfied in our Righteousness in Faith in God's Revelation on it.

You see, most false teachers today think that Rom 8 :33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

I totally agree. Those who can not teach here and now are no teachers and we have to assist all of them to enter their Righteousness in Jesus to become Real Teachers. Where all the Babies in here first of all start Drinking these Words. In a desire to be saved from their own sin consciousness of themselves. To enter the Righteousness of God our "Abba Father/Daddy" in Jesus.

A nice Edifying Song on this topic.

 

[Dylan569]

Those are two excellent posts. Now, a question if we look at Romans 4:25 in a literal translation and the Weymouth -

"who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous." (Rom 4:25 YLT)

or from the Weymouth

"who was surrendered to death because of the offences we had committed, and was raised to life because of the acquittal secured for us." (Rom 4:25 Weymouth)

What is the response to John Gill's comments on the next verse, Rom. 5:1 -

"Therefore being justified by faith,.... Not that faith is at the first of our justification; for that is a sentence which passed in the mind of God from all eternity, and which passed on Christ, and on all the elect considered in him, when he rose from the dead; see Ro 4:25; nor is it the chief, or has it the chief place in justification; it is not the efficient cause of it, it is God that justifies, and not faith; it is not the moving cause of it, that is the free grace of God; it is not the matter of it, that is the righteousness of Christ: we are not justified by faith, either as God's work in us, for, as such, it is a part of sanctification; nor as our work or act, as exercised by us, for then we should be justified by works, by something of our own, and have whereof to glory; but we are justified by faith objectively and relatively, as that relates to the object Christ, and his righteousness; or as it is a means of our knowledge, and perception of our justification by Christ's righteousness, and of our enjoying the comfort of it..."

From the 1644/1646 First London Confession of Faith of Particular Baptists on justification -

XXVIII
THOSE that have union with Christ, are justified from all their sins by the blood of Christ, which justification is a gracious and full acquittance of a guilty sinner from all sin, by God, through the satisfaction that Christ hath made by His death for all their sins, and this applied (in manifestation of it) through faith.
1 John 1:7; Heb.l0:14, 9:26; 2 Cor.5:19; Rom.3:23; Acts 13:38,39; Rom.5:1, 3:25,30.

Does/did justification of the elect happen before the creation, as taught by John Gill, "eternal justification"? At the point in time that the elect believes? Or, at the cross while we were still ungodly?

 

[Brightfame52]

Justification by Faith

Justification by Faith is in two senses, First and foremost Its Justification by the Faith / Faithfulness of Jesus Christ. For its by this Faith alone how The elect obtain Justification before God, by the Blood and obedience of Jesus Christ, for all whom He died in their place and stead..

Rom 5:9,18-19

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Note, being Now Justified by His blood, not our Faith + His blood, that's a false Gospel, but by His blood..to whom is this True of ? Not only the roman believers, but to all the election of grace of all time..Thats who Justified by His blood..

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men[of all time] to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men [of all time] unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Again no mention of our Faith as a securing means of Justification unto Life or being made righteous, but solely the obedience and righteousness of One Jesus Christ..

This constitutes the Faith / faithfulness of Jesus Christ. Therefore its written The Faith of Jesus Christ:

Gal 2:16,20

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In Faithfulness Jesus Christ Loved the elect and gave himself for them.

Then in a secondary sense and premised on the First and foremost, the elect sinner is Justified consciously, by the regenerating work of the Holy Ghost, because of their previous justification by the work of Christ, they now have that revealed to them by God the Holy Ghost through the Gospel. But be careful not to confuse the receiving experientially the status of Justification before God [by the work of Christ] with the experiential aspect of conscience Justification by the work of the Holy Ghost upon and in the already Justified before God sinner.. 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now, though the work of the Holy Ghost is extremely Important and needed for the enjoyment of the work of Christ in the elects behalf, His blessed work should never be on the same level or above the Justifying work of the Son of God upon the cross. to do so leads to heresy and anti Christ teaching.

For it was not the Work of the Holy Ghost to die in the place of elect sinners for 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

This scripture teaches Christ died for our [the elect] sins, but not a word about the Holy Ghost dying for the sins of the elect.

Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him [Jesus Christ] the iniquity of us all.

Here, the iniquities of the elect were laid upon him [Jesus Christ] and not the Holy Ghost..

Rom 5: 9 declares Having been Justified [declared righteous] by the blood of Jesus Christ, but not a word about being Justified by the work of the Holy Ghost blood..

Finally Jesus states that the Holy Ghost will not speak of Himself [ draw attention to Himself] but should Glorify Him..Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine [My accomplishment], and shall shew it unto you.

He shall receive of the finished accomplished Justification of Gods elect through Jesus Christ and on their behalf, and shew [ reveal] it to them..

To confuse or mix the Two types of Justification, Legal and experiential[conscious] is fatal. And will not go unpunished. And only those not taught by our Covenant God is at peril.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Dylan569

Does/did justification of the elect happen before the creation, as taught by John Gill, "eternal justification"? At the point in time that the elect believes? Or, at the cross while we were still ungodly?

I have studied Gill on that topic as well as John Brine and I totally agree ! Its consistent with the present topic.

 

[Dylan569]

@Dylan569



I have studied Gill on that topic as well as John Brine and I totally agree ! Its consistent with the present topic.

Thank you for bringing up the name of John Brine. I'd encountered his name before but had not read any of his works. I will search for some of his books online, maybe at grace-ebooks.com The site archive.org has many of his books, but it will take some getting used to reading the old English.

 

[Brightfame52]

Thank you for bringing up the name of John Brine. I'd encountered his name before but had not read any of his works. I will search for some of his books online, maybe at grace-ebooks.com The site archive.org has many of his books, but it will take some getting used to reading the old English.

Check this out friend:

A Defense of the Doctrine of Eternal Justification - John Brine

The doctrine of Eternal Justification has been lately objected to by Mr. [Robert] Bragge in some sermons of his on that subject, published with some other sermons preached at Limes

www.pristinegrace.org

 

[Brightfame52]

Rom 5:1

Being Justified by Faith !

What does this mean ? For many deceivers are out in the world and have so misapplied this verse to make it say something that it really does not say or mean, and that is that one is saved or Justified before God because of their Faith, meaning their act of believing, that their act of believing is the causative reason of their Justification before God ! Let me say without hesitation that this teaching is false in that its against the True basis of Justification, and that namely is the Lord Jesus Christ. Against His accomplishment on the cross Its the blood of Jesus Christ and the grace of God that Justifies sinners, and i will prove this from scriptures. Also keep in mind, that Faith is a noun not a verb as in something we do, but its a substance.

Rom 5:1

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Let me start off by saying, what Paul does not mean here, and that is, Paul is not teaching that one is Justified [before God] by or because of their act of Faith, since #1, Faith is a noun in this verse..and if we use the verb believing, then we are saying that God Justified because of something I did, which was believe..Thats works..

And even more so, Paul cannot contradict his own teaching in other portions of Gods word as to the True source of Justification before God! First of all Paul teaches that the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus Christ Rom 5:9a

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Paul clearly teaches that Justification is by the blood of Jesus Christ.1

 

[Dylan569]

Rom 5:1

Being Justified by Faith !

What does this mean ? For many deceivers are out in the world and have so misapplied this verse to make it say something that it really does not say or mean, and that is that one is saved or Justified before God because of their Faith, meaning their act of believing, that their act of believing is the causative reason of their Justification before God ! Let me say without hesitation that this teaching is false in that its against the True basis of Justification, and that namely is the Lord Jesus Christ. Against His accomplishment on the cross Its the blood of Jesus Christ and the grace of God that Justifies sinners, and i will prove this from scriptures. Also keep in mind, that Faith is a noun not a verb as in something we do, but its a substance.

Rom 5:1

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Let me start off by saying, what Paul does not mean here, and that is, Paul is not teaching that one is Justified [before God] by or because of their act of Faith, since #1, Faith is a noun in this verse..and if we use the verb believing, then we are saying that God Justified because of something I did, which was believe..Thats works..

And even more so, Paul cannot contradict his own teaching in other portions of Gods word as to the True source of Justification before God! First of all Paul teaches that the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus Christ Rom 5:9a

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Paul clearly teaches that Justification is by the blood of Jesus Christ.1

Brightfame, I'll proceed further, based on your good post on Rom 5:1 -

Keeping in mind that the original writings of the NT did not have chapter and verse designations, I like to read Romans 4:25 continuous with Romans 5:1 from the Young's Literal Translation -

Jesus our Lord "who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous. Having been declared righteous then, by faith we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom 4:25-5:1 YLT)

The commas in our English translations are not inspired, and the placement can be determined by syntax and often influenced by one's theology. I removed the commas after "righteous" and after "faith" as the punctuation is in the YLT.

We were declared righteous at the cross, so now by faith we have peace with God. This agrees with your reference to Rom. 5:9a, as I understand this.

 

[Brightfame52]

Brightfame, I'll proceed further, based on your good post on Rom 5:1 -

Keeping in mind that the original writings of the NT did not have chapter and verse designations, I like to read Romans 4:25 continuous with Romans 5:1 from the Young's Literal Translation -

Jesus our Lord "who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous. Having been declared righteous then, by faith we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom 4:25-5:1 YLT)

The commas in our English translations are not inspired, and the placement can be determined by syntax and often influenced by one's theology. I removed the commas after "righteous" and after "faith" as the punctuation is in the YLT.

We were declared righteous at the cross, so now by faith we have peace with God. This agrees with your reference to Rom. 5:9a, as I understand this.

I agree, so when Christ rose from the dead after dying for sins, it was a testification that Justice had been satisfied for those sins and sinners, constituting them Justified., and that Justification accomplished will be made known to the Justified and they will be given faith by the Spirit to believe it or receive it.

 

[Brightfame52]

So Paul declares that the elect having been Justified by Christ blood, shall be delivered from the wrath to come..

2ndly, Paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Christ] Justification comes upon all men, that is, all men in Him at the time of His righteous act.. observe Rom 5:18b

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This reads in exact contrast with the results of the one who made offence [ Adam] resulting in Gods condemnation and Judgment. For each of the heads brought about a Divine Judicial verdict on all those whom they represented. By the righteousness or righteous act of Jesus Christ, meaning His death, the free gift of Justification of life came upon [ not was offered or made available] but came upon all men [ in Christ at the time , his seed, as Adam had a seed in him] unto Justification of life.

The Justification unto life by the right act of one, called down the free Gift of Justification of life.

Thats why Paul wrote earlier in Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The redemption that is in Christ Jesus, again pointing to His redeeming blood and or death.

So we know Paul did not mean in Rom 5:1 that the elect are Justified by their act of believing or Faith, because it again contradicts Paul's overall teaching of this subject, and would make void the accomplishment of the redeeming death and blood of Jesus Christ..and thats what satan and his messengers desire to do, to take the crown from Jesus head, and place it upon the head of man.

 

[Dylan569]

So Paul declares that the elect having been Justified by Christ blood, shall be delivered from the wrath to come..

2ndly, Paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Christ] Justification comes upon all men, that is, all men in Him at the time of His righteous act.. observe Rom 5:18b

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This reads in exact contrast with the results of the one who made offence [ Adam] resulting in Gods condemnation and Judgment. For each of the heads brought about a Divine Judicial verdict on all those whom they represented. By the righteousness or righteous act of Jesus Christ, meaning His death, the free gift of Justification of life came upon [ not was offered or made available] but came upon all men [ in Christ at the time , his seed, as Adam had a seed in him] unto Justification of life.

The Justification unto life by the right act of one, called down the free Gift of Justification of life.

Thats why Paul wrote earlier in Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The redemption that is in Christ Jesus, again pointing to His redeeming blood and or death.

So we know Paul did not mean in Rom 5:1 that the elect are Justified by their act of believing or Faith, because it again contradicts Paul's overall teaching of this subject, and would make void the accomplishment of the redeeming death and blood of Jesus Christ..and thats what satan and his messengers desire to do, to take the crown from Jesus head, and place it upon the head of man.

I've been thinking over this discussion and remembering something a Pastor told me when I was a young man. We believers would do so much better to focus and dwell upon our Savior Jesus Christ, rather constantly focusing on our lapses into sins, which we do on a daily basis. I thought also about Thomas Brooks, so I'm posting something of his, along with his 7 characteristics of a False Teacher.

Being able to focus on our justification in the blood of Christ, and living in the peace from that fact could save many of much money on prescription drugs for depression and anxieties. A good read is from a wonderful book: "Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices". Take note also, his listing of 7 characteristics of False Teachers, which readers of hit forum would do well to read!

From Thomas Brooks (1608-1680) A Puritan Divine
"God has nowhere engaged himself by any particular promise, that souls converted
and united to Christ shall not fall again and again into the same sin after conversion. I
cannot find in the whole book of God where he has promised any such strength or
power against this or that particular sin, as that the soul should be forever, in this life,
put out of a possibility of falling again and again into the same sins. And where God has
not a mouth to speak, I must not have a heart to believe. God will graciously pardon
those sins to his people, which he will not in this life totally subdue in his people. I have
never seen a promise in Scripture, which says that when our sorrow and grief has been
so great, or so much, for this or that sin—that then God will preserve us from ever
falling into the same sin. The sight of such a promise would be as life from the dead to
many a precious soul, who desires nothing more than to keep close to Christ, and fears
nothing more than backsliding from Christ.
In some cases the saints have found God better than his word. He promised the children
of Israel only the land of Canaan; but besides that he gave them two other kingdoms
which he never promised. And to Zacharias he promised to give him his speech at the
birth of the child—but besides that he gave him the gift of prophecy." p106

"There are relapses into ENORMITIES, and there are relapses into INFIRMITIES. Now it is not
usual with God to leave his people frequently to relapse into enormities; for by his Spirit
and grace, by his smiles and frowns, by his word and rod—he usually preserves his
people from a frequent relapsing into enormities. Yet he does leave his choicest ones
frequently to relapse into infirmities (and of his grace he pardons them)—as idle words,
passion, and vain thoughts. Though gracious souls strive against these, and complain of
these, and weep over these, yet the Lord, to keep them humble, leaves them frequently
to relapse into these. These frequent relapses into infirmities shall never be their bane,
because they are their burden.
Relapses into enormities are destructive sins. Therefore the Lord is graciously pleased to
put under his everlasting arms, and keep his chosen ones from frequent falling into
them." p107

https://www.preachtheword.com/bookstore/remedies.pdf

Thomas Brooks "Seven Characteristics of False Teachers" on page 142 of this book.
[1.] False teachers are men-pleasers.
[2.] False teachers are notable in casting dirt, scorn, and reproach upon the
persons, names, and credits of Christ's most faithful ambassadors.
[3.] False teachers are venters of the devices and visions of their own heads
and hearts.
[4.] False teachers easily pass over the great and weighty things both of law
and gospel, and stand most upon those things that are of the least importance
and concern to the souls of men.
[5.] False teachers cover and color their dangerous principles and soul deceptions with very fair speeches and plausible pretenses, with high notions
and golden expressions.
[6.] False teachers strive more to win over men to their opinions, than to
better them in their lives.
[7.] False teachers make merchandise of their followers

In the apostate climate of today, notice particularly #2, 3, 5 & 7, there truly is nothing new under the sun!!

 

[Brightfame52]

I've been thinking over this discussion and remembering something a Pastor told me when I was a young man. We believers would do so much better to focus and dwell upon our Savior Jesus Christ, rather constantly focusing on our lapses into sins, which we do on a daily basis. I thought also about Thomas Brooks, so I'm posting something of his, along with his 7 characteristics of a False Teacher.

Being able to focus on our justification in the blood of Christ, and living in the peace from that fact could save many of much money on prescription drugs for depression and anxieties. A good read is from a wonderful book: "Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices". Take note also, his listing of 7 characteristics of False Teachers, which readers of hit forum would do well to read!

From Thomas Brooks (1608-1680) A Puritan Divine
"God has nowhere engaged himself by any particular promise, that souls converted
and united to Christ shall not fall again and again into the same sin after conversion. I
cannot find in the whole book of God where he has promised any such strength or
power against this or that particular sin, as that the soul should be forever, in this life,
put out of a possibility of falling again and again into the same sins. And where God has
not a mouth to speak, I must not have a heart to believe. God will graciously pardon
those sins to his people, which he will not in this life totally subdue in his people. I have
never seen a promise in Scripture, which says that when our sorrow and grief has been
so great, or so much, for this or that sin—that then God will preserve us from ever
falling into the same sin. The sight of such a promise would be as life from the dead to
many a precious soul, who desires nothing more than to keep close to Christ, and fears
nothing more than backsliding from Christ.
In some cases the saints have found God better than his word. He promised the children
of Israel only the land of Canaan; but besides that he gave them two other kingdoms
which he never promised. And to Zacharias he promised to give him his speech at the
birth of the child—but besides that he gave him the gift of prophecy." p106

"There are relapses into ENORMITIES, and there are relapses into INFIRMITIES. Now it is not
usual with God to leave his people frequently to relapse into enormities; for by his Spirit
and grace, by his smiles and frowns, by his word and rod—he usually preserves his
people from a frequent relapsing into enormities. Yet he does leave his choicest ones
frequently to relapse into infirmities (and of his grace he pardons them)—as idle words,
passion, and vain thoughts. Though gracious souls strive against these, and complain of
these, and weep over these, yet the Lord, to keep them humble, leaves them frequently
to relapse into these. These frequent relapses into infirmities shall never be their bane,
because they are their burden.
Relapses into enormities are destructive sins. Therefore the Lord is graciously pleased to
put under his everlasting arms, and keep his chosen ones from frequent falling into
them." p107

https://www.preachtheword.com/bookstore/remedies.pdf

Thomas Brooks "Seven Characteristics of False Teachers" on page 142 of this book.
[1.] False teachers are men-pleasers.
[2.] False teachers are notable in casting dirt, scorn, and reproach upon the
persons, names, and credits of Christ's most faithful ambassadors.
[3.] False teachers are venters of the devices and visions of their own heads
and hearts.
[4.] False teachers easily pass over the great and weighty things both of law
and gospel, and stand most upon those things that are of the least importance
and concern to the souls of men.
[5.] False teachers cover and color their dangerous principles and soul deceptions with very fair speeches and plausible pretenses, with high notions
and golden expressions.
[6.] False teachers strive more to win over men to their opinions, than to
better them in their lives.
[7.] False teachers make merchandise of their followers

In the apostate climate of today, notice particularly #2, 3, 5 & 7, there truly is nothing new under the sun!!

Did you understand my post ? #11

 

[Dylan569]

Did you understand my post ? #11

I take it you were referring to Federalist theology, as I understand it.

"So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life." (Rom 5:18 ASV)

The first "all men" refers to all those represented in Adam, who are all men without exception; the second "all men" refers to all the men represented in Christ, all of the elect of which not one will be lost, 2 Pet. 3:9.

Elder David Pyles of Grace Primitive Baptist Church on the church web site has an article "Justification in Baptist History and Scripture" and in that he makes mention of three views of justification: Eternal justification, Evidentiary justification and Instrumental justification.

http://www.pb.org/PBDocs/JustificationAndBaptists.pdf

I can see the reasoning for Eternal justification in one way, if election was before creation in God's decree, why not justification as well be before creation. Maybe it is faulty reasoning, but that to me can fit a bit closer to thinking of the OT saints who lived prior to the cross. Yet, I am more inclined to accepted the Evidentiary justification view, as stated in Rom. 4:25 accomplished and secured at the cross for all of God's elect, OT & NT. I don't find enough difference in those two views to quibble over.

It is the Instrumental justification I've come to have problems with in recent years. To me, if one believes Christ died and paid for the sins of every human who existed or will exist without exception, then what makes the difference between the saved and the lost? It has to be the merit of faith, the work of believing. Even in years past, to refer to faith as the "means' or merely the "instrument" of justification to avoid calling it a work; that began to sound like double talk to me and akin to neonomianism.

By the way, I've visited a Primitive Baptist in years past, but have never been a member of the Primitive Baptist church, yet I find my theology seems to be closer to them than it does to the Reformed Baptists, or the vast majority of Baptists in this day.

 

[Brightfame52]

So, so far in exposing the False teaching that the elect are saved or Justified because of their act of Faith or believing. We see that contradicts other clear teaching of Paul that #1, the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus Christ Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

That is when He bore their sins as prophesied Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [shed His blood]

2ndly we find that Paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Jesus Christ] Justification came upon all men not offered, not made available, but Sovereignly came upon them Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Now show me in this verse where it says that Justification of life came upon all men because they had faith ?

Thirdly, Paul teaches in vs 19 of Romans 5:19 that by the obedience of one, many shall be made righteous ..

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now where does it say that by their faith shall many be made righteous ? Paul says by the obedience of one many shall be made righteous. Now who is that one ? 1

 

[Brightfame52]

Paul then goes on to write that the elect are Justified by Grace Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

And this is freely, without cause of us, Just being of the election of grace. Rom 3:24

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption [blood] that is in Christ Jesus:

The word freely here is the greek word:

dōrean: which means:

freely, undeservedly and is translated without a cause as here:

Jn 15:25

25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.


Redemption is through His blood, of which His Grace operates towards the elect..

Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

In light of these scriptures, we continue to expose the false teaching of the antichrist followers who would take the crown from Jesus head and place it upon their own.

 

[Dylan569]

Faith is of free grace, a gift:
because to you it hath been granted in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer in his behalf: (Phil 1:29 ASV)

And when he was minded to pass over into Achaia, the brethren encouraged him, and wrote to the disciples to receive him: and when he was come, he helped them much that had believed through grace; (Acts 18:27 ASV)

seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue; (2Pet 1:3 ASV)

for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; (Eph 2:8 ASV)

For I say, through the grace that was given me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but so to think as to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to each man a measure of faith. (Rom 12:3 ASV)
compare with
and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and evil men; for all have not faith. (2Thess 3:2 ASV)

Repentance is of free grace, a gift
Unto you first God, having raised up his Servant, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities. (Acts 3:26 ASV)

Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins. (Acts 5:31 ASV)

And when they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then to the Gentiles also hath God granted repentance unto life. (Acts 11:18 ASV)

in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth, (2Tim 2:25 ASV)

Scripture makes clear that salvation is 100% by God. If faith or repentance is our way to earn salvation in any way, it is a false religion

 

[Brightfame52]

Justified before believing !

The False teachers of today have turned what is the evidence of Justification into a condition to get salvation or Justification..

When the fact of the matter is, the elect are Justified before they believe, which is understood if we consider Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Notice, but believeth on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly !

The scripture does not term any who are believers Ungodly, we have our names from post conversion, such as saints, living stones, babes in Christ, beloved, holy brethren and ect, but seeing here Paul writes that God Justifieth the Ungodly, then believers are Justified before believing..

You see their [ the elect] believing did not Justify them, but Christ Justified many by baring their sins Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He [ Jesus Christ] in taking away the sin of the elect made us righteous, and this was our Justification..

Jn 1:29

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ death Justified us [ the elect] while we were sinners, ungodly..

This was before we believed, for I was Justified by Christ death in 33 ad, before I was manifested [ born] in 1957..

Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

reconciliation and Justification are of the same sort, acceptance with God in Favor, and yet this occurred while we were sinners, before we believed, how ? by the death of His Son.1

 

[Dylan569]

Justified before believing !

The False teachers of today have turned what is the evidence of Justification into a condition to get salvation or Justification..

When the fact of the matter is, the elect are Justified before they believe, which is understood if we consider Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Notice, but believeth on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly !

The scripture does not term any who are believers Ungodly, we have our names from post conversion, such as saints, living stones, babes in Christ, beloved, holy brethren and ect, but seeing here Paul writes that God Justifieth the Ungodly, then believers are Justified before believing..

You see their [ the elect] believing did not Justify them, but Christ Justified many by baring their sins Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He [ Jesus Christ] in taking away the sin of the elect made us righteous, and this was our Justification..

Jn 1:29

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ death Justified us [ the elect] while we were sinners, ungodly..

This was before we believed, for I was Justified by Christ death in 33 ad, before I was manifested [ born] in 1957..

Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

reconciliation and Justification are of the same sort, acceptance with God in Favor, and yet this occurred while we were sinners, before we believed, how ? by the death of His Son.1

Brightfame, Jesus words in the following verse always struck me as interesting how that the kingdom was there, repent and believe it. The repentance and faith did not bring the kingdom.

‘The time has arrived; the kingdom of God is upon you. Repent, and believe the gospel.’ (Mark 1:15 REB)

"The time has fully come," He said, "and the Kingdom of God is close at hand: repent, and believe this Good News." (Mark 1:15 Weymouth)

Then the following passage explains the gospel in a way that is not seen in our day.

For He saved us and called us with a holy call, not in accordance with our desserts, but in accordance with His own purpose and the free grace which He bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before the commencement of the Ages, but which has now been plainly revealed through the Appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus. He has put an end to death and has brought Life and Immortality to light through the Good News, (2Tim 1:9-10 Weymouth)

Paul gave an expanded understanding of the gospel or Good News. The gospel itself is not what saves, it brings salvation to light, manifests it.

 

[Brightfame52]

Brightfame, Jesus words in the following verse always struck me as interesting how that the kingdom was there, repent and believe it. The repentance and faith did not bring the kingdom.

‘The time has arrived; the kingdom of God is upon you. Repent, and believe the gospel.’ (Mark 1:15 REB)

"The time has fully come," He said, "and the Kingdom of God is close at hand: repent, and believe this Good News." (Mark 1:15 Weymouth)

Then the following passage explains the gospel in a way that is not seen in our day.

For He saved us and called us with a holy call, not in accordance with our desserts, but in accordance with His own purpose and the free grace which He bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before the commencement of the Ages, but which has now been plainly revealed through the Appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus. He has put an end to death and has brought Life and Immortality to light through the Good News, (2Tim 1:9-10 Weymouth)

Paul gave an expanded understanding of the gospel or Good News. The gospel itself is not what saves, it brings salvation to light, manifests it.

Okay, but do you understand post 18 "Justified before believing !"