Why Choose the Church over the Bible

[Butch5]

When you decide to take an actual stab at my accusations of your belief and stop moving the goal posts and evading, let me know.

But alas, you cannot actually deal with them. Can you.....

I ask both you and @Rhema for simple answers. Type Yes or No. Select A, B or C. But instead I get emotional rants off of cherry picked scripture.

If only this site had a formal debate section, you two would have nowhere to run or ground to stick your heads in and pretend the problems go away.

I boxed you both in and you don't even realize it. Like a person deciding to focus on their day of work when a bomb is falling on their head.

You two really are special cases.

Like I said, when you're done playing games let me know.

 

[Rhema]

I ask both you and @Rhema for simple answers. Type Yes or No. Select A, B or C. But instead I get emotional rants off of cherry picked scripture.

Simple answers for the simplistic. This isn't hard KJ, I just don't buy into your "answers". But I think you're too oblivious to really understand this. Seriously, you demanding that I use your answers. How NPD is that?

Have a good day,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Four winds????

Sigh... I know I'm going to regret this....

St. Irenaeus of Lyons died ca. 202 AD​

​

It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is scattered throughout all the world, and the pillar and ground 1 Tim. 3:15 of the Church is the Gospel and the spirit of life; it is fitting that she should have four pillars, breathing out immortality on every side, and vivifying men afresh.​

This, from the person who shaped part of the New Testament as you have it.

 

[Garee]

Sigh... I know I'm going to regret this....

St. Irenaeus of Lyons died ca. 202 AD​

​

It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is scattered throughout all the world, and the pillar and ground 1 Tim. 3:15 of the Church is the Gospel and the spirit of life; it is fitting that she should have four pillars, breathing out immortality on every side, and vivifying men afresh.​

This, from the person who shaped part of the New Testament as you have it.

One gospel of Christ the Father.

Mr. Irenaeus a leader of the Cult called Catholicism.

The Church is not the gospel. Christ unseen alone is.

 

[Dylan569]

One gospel of Christ the Father.

Mr. Irenaeus a leader of the Cult called Catholicism.

The Church is not the gospel. Christ unseen alone is.

Irenaeus died 202 and the history or Roman Catholicism is recorded in section 3 of the following -

Romanism an Age-Long Development One of the first things that we want to point out in this study is that the Roman Catholic Church has not always been what it is today. Rather, it has reached its present state as the result of along, slow process of development as through the centuries one new doctrine,or ritual, or custom after another has been added. Even a superficial reading of the following list will make clear that most of the distinctive features of the system were unknown to Apostolic Christianity, and that one can hardly recognize in present day Romanism the original Christian doctrines. Not all dates can be given with exactness since some doctrines and rituals were debated or practiced over a period of time before their formal acceptance.SOME ROMAN CATHOLIC HERESIES AND INVENTIONS and the dates of their adoption over a period of 1,650 years

1. Prayers for the dead: began about A.D. 300.
2. Making the sign of the cross: A.D. 300.
3. Wax candles: about A.D. 320.
4. Veneration of angels and dead saints, and use of images: A.D. 375.
5. The Mass, as a daily celebration: A.D. 394.
6. Beginning of the exaltation of Mary, the term “Mother of God” first applied to her bythe Council of Ephesus: A.D. 431.
7. Priests began to dress differently from laymen: A.D. 500.
8. Extreme Unction: A.D. 526.
9. The doctrine of Purgatory, established by Gregory I: A.D. 593.
10. Latin language, used in prayer and worship, imposed by Gregory I: A.D. 600

This list goes on over the centuries:

https://www.tlchrist.info/keithgreen/boettner_romancatholocism.pdf

 

[KingJ]

Simple answers for the simplistic. This isn't hard KJ, I just don't buy into your "answers". But I think you're too oblivious to really understand this. Seriously, you demanding that I use your answers. How NPD is that?

Have a good day,
Rhema

Back in grade 1 when your math teacher asked you a simple question.

1 + 1 =

A. 2
B. 3
C. 4

Most people answer A, B or C.

I imagine you and @BUTCH typed an English essay about the history of numbers and when the math teacher marked your answer as wrong, you resort to ad hominem and explain that your essay contained big words that the math teacher can't understand.

Perhaps, if you type D.5 and explained that 1 + 1 + 3 = 5, you may get a mark. But your essay does most certainly not do that.

 

[KingJ]

Like I said, when you're done playing games let me know.

It is quite entertaining to see you try hold the higher ground.

I asked you simple questions, you created rabbit trails and evaded.

Me - Butch, is the Holy Spirit failing at His one job if 2.4 billion Christians worship Jesus when Exo 34:14 says we must not worship anyone except for God? Yes or No answer please.

Butch - when you're done playing games let me know.

 

[Rhema]

I imagine you and @BUTCH typed an English essay about the history of numbers and when the math teacher marked your answer as wrong, you resort to ad hominem and explain that your essay contained big words that the math teacher can't understand.

Well, I've had to correct quite a number of elementary school teachers about the fact that the number of physical senses isn't five.

And I found a mistake in one of the most widely used IQ tests, so...

Imagine !!! You thinking yourself to be my teacher.

Back in grade 1 when your math teacher asked you a simple question.

As if the things of God are 1+1.

HEY... I think I've found your problem. !!!

(You should watch the video, it's only 1+1 minutes.)

 

[Rhema]

Butch, is the Holy Spirit failing at His one job if 2.4 billion Christians worship Jesus

You know, if there are 8.2 billion people on the planet and only 2.4 billion are Christian, maybe the Holy Spirit is failing at his job. I mean, c'mon... do the math.

 

[Rhema]

This list goes on over the centuries:

You forgot one -

The establishment of the Biblical canon A.D. 393.





(Keith Green... now that's a name I hadn't heard in decades.)

 

[KingJ]

Well, I've had to correct quite a number of elementary school teachers about the fact that the number of physical senses isn't five.

And I found a mistake in one of the most widely used IQ tests, so...

Imagine !!! You thinking yourself to be my teacher.


As if the things of God are 1+1.

HEY... I think I've found your problem. !!!

(You should watch the video, it's only 1+1 minutes.)

So cringe.

You know, if there are 8.2 billion people on the planet and only 2.4 billion are Christian, maybe the Holy Spirit is failing at his job. I mean, c'mon... do the math.

So irrelevant to the point made.

---------------------

When you're done playing games let me know...

 

[Butch5]

It is quite entertaining to see you try hold the higher ground.

I asked you simple questions, you created rabbit trails and evaded.

Me - Butch, is the Holy Spirit failing at His one job if 2.4 billion Christians worship Jesus when Exo 34:14 says we must not worship anyone except for God? Yes or No answer please.

Butch - when you're done playing games let me know.

It's because you lack understanding of the Scriptures and refuse to acknowledge such. As long as you stick your fingers in you ears and go, na na na na. Every times someone says something you don't want to hear no progress can be made

As I said, when you're ready to stop playing games let me know.

 

[KingJ]

It's because you lack understanding of the Scriptures and refuse to acknowledge such. As long as you stick your fingers in you ears and go, na na na na. Every times someone says something you don't want to hear no progress can be made

As I said, when you're ready to stop playing games let me know.

Butch, you are the one ''sticking your fingers in you ears and going, na na na na''.

There are currently six examples of this.

See post # 29 and post # 61.

-----------------------

Name one point you have made that you feel I have not dealt with.

 

[Butch5]

Butch, you are the one ''sticking your fingers in you ears and going, na na na na''.

There are currently six examples of this.

See post # 29 and post # 61.

-----------------------

Name one point you have made that you feel I have not dealt with.

Like I said. Show me one post where you've addressed the flawed premise that you presented.

 

[Rhema]

When you're done playing games let me know...

 

[KingJ]

Like I said. Show me one post where you've addressed the flawed premise that you presented.

Which one, you have stated quite a few.

Flawed premise examples - 1. God did not kill Jesus, 2. God did not punish Jesus, 3. God has to punish someone for sin,
Reasoning disagreements - 4. If God punished Himself He would be unjust as He doesn't sin.

Have I missed one?

My copy pasted replies repeated to you over my last fifty posts as I have nothing better to do :

1. Cross was planned before mankind was created Eph 1:4, God impregnated Mary Luke 1:35.
2. What then would you call sending your child (who volunteers cough cough) to pay a debt you created to a violent and cruel Mexican drug cartel?
3. Yes, as God is just. It is unthinkable that he would pervert justice Job 34:12.
4. No He wouldn't. He is the only one that wouldn't. It would be Him taking ownership / responsibility for the creation He made. Exactly like parents committing to pain and sweat in childbirth and upbringing.

 

[complete]

Butch5’s presence on this message board serves only to stir up strife and divert attention from the clear truths of Scripture. No matter how patiently or thoroughly the truth is explained, it becomes evident that their heart is hardened and their eyes are spiritually blind to the Word of God. As Jesus warned, “Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit” (Matthew 15:14), and again, “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?” (Luke 6:39). Engaging with the falsehoods repeatedly shared by Butch5 is not only fruitless but also distracts from proclaiming the truth of the gospel. These distortions are not from God, for Satan is the father of lies (John 8:44), and it is clear where such deception originates. Let us stay grounded in the truth of God’s Word and not be drawn away by those who reject it.

Hello @bdavidc,

It is not the Bible or it's content that @Butch5 questions, but man's interpretation of it. That is a justifiable and honourable thing to do, as is shown in Acts 17, and what is spoken of the Berean's who received the word preached with all readiness of mind, but searched the Scriptures daily to ensure that what was being spoken was indeed so. That is the way to ensure the we do not fall into error.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

'And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea:
who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica,
in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.'
(Act 17:10-11)

 

[bdavidc]

Hello @bdavidc,

It is not the Bible or it's content that @Butch5 questions, but man's interpretation of it. That is a justifiable and honourable thing to do, as is shown in Acts 17, and what is spoken of the Berean's who received the word preached with all readiness of mind, but searched the Scriptures daily to ensure that what was being spoken was indeed so. That is the way to ensure the we do not fall into error.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The statement you made sounds noble on the surface, but it exposes a dangerous error already creeping in, questioning the clarity and authority of Scripture itself under the guise of “interpretation.” Let me be direct: the Bible is the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and it is not up for revision or redefinition based on anyone’s opinion, whether yours, @Butch5’s, or anyone else's. God does not stutter. Psalm 119:160 declares, “Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth forever.” The Word is not some riddle requiring human opinion to validate its meaning, it is God’s eternal truth revealed to man.

Yes, the Bereans were noble in that they searched the Scriptures daily to confirm that what Paul preached aligned with God’s Word (Acts 17:11). But they weren’t judging the Scripture, they were judging the teaching by the Scripture. There is a vast difference. You’re twisting the example of the Bereans to suggest that the Bible is unclear or requires personal reinterpretation. That’s not what they did. They didn’t search the Scriptures to change what was written, they searched to make sure what was being taught matched what God had already said.

Sola Scriptura, Scripture alone, is the standard by which all teachings and opinions must be tested. Not feelings. Not tradition. Not majority opinion. Proverbs 30:5-6 warns, “Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” So if you’re already questioning or modifying the Word of God based on human reasoning or group consensus, you’ve already started falling into error.

As for me, I will decide what I believe and how I act by the unchanging Word of God, not by your or @Butch5’s attempt to reinterpret it. God's Word doesn’t need your edits. It needs your submission.

 

[Rhema]

Let me be direct: the Bible is the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17),

Let me direct, the Bible is NOT the Word of God, because the Bible defines what the "Word of God" is (there are TWO of them) and the Bible does not include itself in it's own definition.

What you read as "truth" in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is a purposeful (hence evil) mis-translation to allow people to make such claims of Biblical Divinity and Biblical Inerrancy. (Better to Bible bash others with, no?)

The problem, of course, is what "lay person" would deign to actually learn Greek (other than me) in order to read what is actually written, and what "Clergy" would want to unleash the truth and undermine their claims to have a HOLY, divine and unerring writ?

One of these days I ought to start a thread on what 2 Tim. 3:15-16 actually says (it's one sentence) and how people with itching ears are so eager to embrace a lie. But no doubt, I expect your ears to be already stoppered up, having placed me on ignore? (But maybe I'm wrong.)

Until that time, allow me to point you in the right direction -

and that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus - every scripture inspired by God that is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness:​

- 2 Timothy 3:15-16 ASV~

There are some "sacred writings" that have nothing to do with "making one wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus," nor are they "profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness."

Now while the Bible IS not the Word of God, it certainly contains the Word of God (BOTH of them), which is easily understood if one would just make even a meager attempt. And if one were honest, one would admit that the New Testament writings were not included in the sacred writings spoken of.

In the Truth of LOGOS (Teaching of Jesus),
Rhema

No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.​

- Luke 5:39 KJV