The Savior, Jehovah/Yahweh, always had a glorious saving in the OT. And in the NT it reached its climax. He was always the Savior and still is.

Isaiah 43: 8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the peoples be assembled: who among them can declare this, and show us former things? let them bring their witnesses, that they may be justified; or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour. 12 I have declared, and I have saved, and I have showed; and there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and I am God. 13 Yea, since the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who can hinder it? [ASV]


In the NT He gives us His Living Word in Jesus. Where we look at the Word of Jesus in Revelation that it is our saving Grace from Him. Where the Almighty God became our "Abba Father/Daddy" in Love. Because we are born of Him and the same as He is. Just starting of as Babies in Drinking our Milk. Where we enter in Revelation our dead on the cross and our birth in the Life of Jesus Christ. To grow up to be Perfect in Jesus just as He was.

Eph. 4:
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

These Gifts have the Ability from God to let us look at Jesus as the Word of God. And in Revelation it becomes our Creation to be the actual Person. When we get Spiritual Eyes from our Dad, Jehovah, we can see His Word of Jesus clearly. And then we see ourselves who always existed in Jesus also clearly. Where our Dad shows us His thoughts on us in the Word of Jesus. And looking at His Love and His thoughts on us in Jesus we discover ourselves in His Living Word of Jesus. And we start Living by the Word of our Dad, Jehovah which He gave in Jesus.

2 Cor. 3:
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Butch5 said:

We don't my definition. We have the dictionary. James said Abraham was justified out of his works. Argument over!!!

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Ostrich syndrome. You ignoring the point made.

Butch5 said:

No, they haven't. It's clearly a parable.

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Its clearly not a parable. Actual names, actual place. To ignore it would be to insinuate that Jesus was lying. Even if it were a... parable.

This is why I correctly conclude that annihilationist's like you, completely remove it from your bible and hope that calling it a parable means you don't need to acknowledge what Jesus said for half a chapter.

Butch5 said:

What repentance would there be?

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Repentance of sin. The act carries weight with God per Psalm 51:17 and a lot of verses from Jesus.

Butch5 said:

No, no one has debunked it. You can't debunk the truth.

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Dude. you take a single verse and assume that is the A-Z of a vastly unknown future. That is borderline madness.

Butch5 said:

That's irrelevant. The kingdom is on Earth.

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Irrelevant if you take a single verse as the A-Z of what will happen.

God gave His life for us. Do you think He will stop us travelling to other planets? UFO's and Elon Musk already on that. Imagine us after the first 1000 years in heaven.

Do not limit God. When Christians type ridiculous lines like ''we will be stuck on earth'' they are looking for attention and stumbling the weak into thinking God will be a pain even in heaven. It is not wise.

There is truth to us being on earth and many things remaining the same. Humans are humans. But there is also a lot of truth to us being free and God having many unthinkable and exciting things planned for us.

Butch5 said:

And, before they can be saved, they have to be justified.

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Firstly, understand the point I made. If Jesus never died, NOBODY would be saved.

Then, please try understanding Psalm 51:17. Repentance of sin is not a 'work', it is a decision from the heart and per Jer 17:9-10 God judges our hearts and minds for 'justification'.

It is true, as already said that works are mentioned in James 1:27 and Rev 2:10. But it would be very important to clarify that these works are very specific works and need to be compared to 'general' works. Works that show a changed heart. Unlike Matt 7:22 type works. Can you be a martyr for Jesus (Rev 2:10) if have not accepted Him as your Lord and Saviour and love Him immensely, I am not so sure.

How the unbelievers love to twist scripture!
the thief beside Jesus is still in his grave until getting a free pass on Judgment Day.

Rxlx said:

How the unbelievers love to twist scripture!
the thief beside Jesus is still in his grave until getting a free pass on Judgment Day.

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Luke 23:42-43

And he said, Jesus, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom. And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise.

I just posted this in the Bible Study pages:

No Human has Gone to Heaven but Jesus!

Acts 2:34 KJV 'For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,'

So if David had not ascended into heaven by the date of 33 AD after dying about 1000 years previously - 'King David of Israel reigned from around 1010–970 BCE. He was the second king of Israel, succeeding King Saul' - where was or is he today?
And if he had not ascendd then why do so many 'Christians' claim the dead fly off to heaven?

Also when Jesus died the earthquake broke open the tombs and some saints walked about the village. Who believes the dead were resurrected that day? who could those saints have been - local believers killed for preaching the Gospel?
And why had they not flown off to heaven but were obviously waiting in their graves for resurrection?
Did they die and were put back in their graves or did their souls fly off to heaven regardless of what Apostle Peter said just a few days after seeing Jesus rise off into the sky back to heaven?

The supposed tomb containing the bones of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the Cave of Machpelah with the variously modified building above it but it is 19 miles from Jerusalem so they were unlikely to be the ones in Jerusalem?
Good old Wikipedia ever ready to worship Satan claims: 'most historians believe the Abraham-Isaac-Jacob narrative to be primarily mythological.'

The constant refrain about the dead flying off to heaven is Satanic as all are still in their graves.

KingJ said:

Luke 23:42-43

And he said, Jesus, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom. And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise.

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Of course Jesus said that _ BUT AS HE HIMSELF DID NOT GO TO PARADISE BUT SPENT A DAY OR TWO IN HIS TOMB BEFORE BEING RESURRECTED AND GOING TO SEE SATAN'S FIRST GANG OF FALLEN ANGELS IN THEIR PRISON INSIDE EARTH HE COULD NOT HAVE TAKEN THE THIEF ANYWHERE.
NOR COULD HE AS HIS PARADISE IS TO BE THE RENEWED EARTH AFTER THE 1,000 YEARS MILLENNIUM.
The thief has been dust for 2000 years and has another 1000 before Jesus's promise comes true.
Then resurrectees will see the thief but Bill you will not be there as you are a false prophet uttering false teachings.