ĕlōhı̂m: Plural Persons, or Majesty?

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ĕlōhı̂m: Plural Persons, or Majesty?


The very first verse in the Holy Bible reads, “In the beginning ˒ĕlōhı̂m Created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1)

“˒ĕlōhı̂m” is not a Name of God, but more a description or identity of the Supreme Divine Being in the Old Testament. “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is masculine in gender, and plural in number. It has most probably from the root “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, both are also masculine, but singular.

How are we to understand the plural form “˒ĕlōhı̂m”? The Jews understand it to mean:

“The most common of the originally appellative names of God is Elohim (אלהים), plural in form though commonly construed with a singular verb or adjective. This is, most probably, to be explained as the plural of majesty or excellence, expressing high dignity or greatness” (Jewish Encyclopedia)

The Jews, it must be remembered, do not accept that the God of the Old Testament, is a “Plurality of Persons”. To them, God is just the One Person, Who is the Father.

Those who also reject that the God of the Bible is more than One Person, and anti-Trinitarian, are known as Unitarian, who, like the Jews, believe that God is just the One Person, Who is the Father.

The plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, as we are told here, by the Jews and Unitarians, is used to show the “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”, of the God of the Old Testament. Some Hebrew grammarians call the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, the “plural of Majesty”. There is no evidence in the entire Old Testament, to support this definition. It has been thought up by those, like the Jews and Unitarians, and others who reject that the God of the Bible is more than One Person. The evidence from the Old Testament, will show that “plural of Majesty”, is no more than human conjecture.

In the first place, “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is not a unique word, that is used only for The One True God of the Old Testament. It is not the same as the Name of God, “Yehôvâh”, which is only used for The One True God of the Old Testament, and is always in the singular. Why was not the singular, “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, not used in every instance in the Old Testament, for The One True God, as opposed to the false “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, idols, and human judges? Are we to assume, that it is only when “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is used for “God”, that it means “plural of majesty”; but, the singular “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”, when used for “God”, does not mean, “Majesty”, or “Greatness”, or “Excellence”? We shall see, that there are clear places in the Old Testament, where the singular “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah” are used, and the meaning does mean, “Majesty”, or “Greatness”, or “Excellence”.

Secondly, there are many instances in the Old Testament, where “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is used for false “gods”. In Exodus chapter 20, when The Ten Commandments were Written by God:

“And God (˒ĕlōhı̂m) spoke all these words, saying, “I am the LORD (Yehôvâh) your God (˒ĕlōhı̂m)...“You shall have no other gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) beside Me” (verses 1-3)

And verse 23, “You shall not make gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) of silver to be with me, nor shall you make for yourselves gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) of gold”

Does “˒ĕlōhı̂m” in all of these uses mean, “plural of Majesty”?

Another good example, is Psalm 82, which shows that the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, cannot be used as “plural of majesty”.

Verse 1 reads: “God (˒ĕlōhı̂m) has taken His place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) He holds judgment”

In verse 6 it says, “I said, “You are gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m), sons of the Most High, all of you”

verse 8, “Arise, O God (˒ĕlōhı̂m), judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations!”

Here we have “˒ĕlōhı̂m” used twice for The One True God of the Bible; and once for false “gods”, and once for “judges”. Each time it is the same plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”. Are we to understand that the same meaning, “plural of majesty”, is applied to the false gods, and human judges?

In other places we also have “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, used for humans who are “judges”

Exodus 21:6, “then his master must bring him to the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m)” (KJV, NKJV, NET)

Exodus 22:8, 9, “then the owner of the house will be brought before the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m)...come before the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m), and the one whom the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m) declare guilty ” (KJV, NKJV, NET)

“˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is also used for false idols, as in Genesis 31:30, 32 “And now you have gone away because you longed greatly for your father's house, but why did you steal my gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m)?...Anyone with whom you find your gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) shall not live”. Genesis 35:2,4 “So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Put away the foreign gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) that are among you and purify yourselves and change your garments...So they gave to Jacob all the foreign gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) that they had”. Exodus 32:31, “So Moses returned to the LORD and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) of gold”

In Exodus 7:1, God tells Moses, “And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (˒ĕlōhı̂m) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet”

“˒ĕlōhı̂m” is used about 2600 times in the Old Testament for The One True God. However, as we can see, it is also used for false gods, false idols, human judges, etc. If, as those who argue that we are to understand the plural form of “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, to describe God’s “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”; then are we to take these same meanings, for the false gods, false idols, human judges, etc? How exactly, can these be “majestic” or “great” or “excellent”? It is absurd!

I shall give examples from the Old Testament, where both the singular forms, “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”, and used for Almighty God, to describe His “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”. So, why could these words have been used in every instance in the Old Testament, for The One True God? This would have made it very clear, that GOD in the Old Testament, is just One Person, Who is the Father.

For the singular, “˒ēl”, there are examples that show it is used to decrible God’s “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”:

Genesis 14:18-22, “And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the Most High (‛elyôn) God (˒ēl). And he blessed him and said, “Blessed be Abram by God ('êl) Most High (‛elyôn), Possessor of heaven and earth. And blessed be the Most High (‛elyôn) God (˒ēl)... But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have lifted my hand to the LORD (yehôvâh), God (˒ēl) Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth”

Deuteronomy 7:21, “You shall not be in dread of them, for the LORD (yehôvâh) your God (˒ĕlōhı̂m) is in your midst, a great and awesome God (˒ēl)”

Joshua 22:22, “The LORD (yehôvâh) God (˒ēl) of gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m), the LORD (yehôvâh) God (˒ēl) of gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m), he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD (yehôvâh), (save us not this day,)”

2 Samuel 22:33, “This God (˒ēl) is my strong refuge and has made my way blameless”

Psalm 18:2, “The LORD (yehôvâh) is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God (˒ēl), my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower”

Psalm 90:2, “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from Everlasting to Everlasting you are God (˒ēl)”

Psalm 95:3, “For the LORD (yehôvâh) is a great God (˒ēl), and a great King above all gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m)”

Jeremiah 32:18, “Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great (gâdôl), the Mighty (gibwōr) God,(˒ēl) the LORD (yehôvâh) of hosts, is His Name”

Isaiah 9:6, is a Prophecy of The Messiah, Jesus Christ. One of Names by which He will be called, is “’êl gib·bō·wr”, translated even in the New World Translation, as “Mighty God”. The same Hebrew is found in chapter 10:21; Jeremiah 32:18; Deuteronomy 10:17. It is clear that there are Two distinct Persons Who are Mighty God.

The same can be seen for the singular ˒ĕlōah:

Deuteronomy 32:15, 17, “then he forsook God (˒ĕlōah) which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation...They sacrificed unto devils, not to God (˒ĕlōah); to gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) whom they knew not”

Job 11:7, “Canst thou by searching find out God (˒ĕlōah)? canst thou find out the Almighty (shadday) unto perfection?”

Job 22:26, “For then shalt thou have thy delight in the Almighty (shadday), and shalt lift up thy face unto God (˒ĕlōah)”

Job 27:10, “Will he delight himself in the Almighty (shadday)? will he always call upon God (˒ĕlōah)?”

Job 33:12, “Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God (˒ĕlōah) is Greater (râbâh) than man”

Psalm 18:31, “For who is God (˒ĕlōah) save the LORD (yehôvâh)? or who is a Rock save our God (˒ĕlōhı̂m)?”

Psalm 114:7, “Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord ('âdôn), at the presence of the God (˒ĕlōah) of Jacob”

Isaiah 44:8, “Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God (˒ĕlōah) besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.”

In all of these examples, it is clear that both “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”, are used to describe “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”, of The One True God of the Old Testament. So why would the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, be used, for what the singular already does?

It is clear that the use of the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is not to describe the “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”, of The One True God of the Old Testament, which is already done by the singular, “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”. There is also clear evidence in the Old Testament, to show that the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is used because The One True God of the Old Testament, is not One Person, Who is the Father.

If, as those who argue for Unitarianism, God is One Person, there can be no doubt, that Genesis 1:1, would have been written, “bərē’šîṯ bārā’ ’ĕl/˒ĕlōah ’ēṯ haššāmayim wə’ēṯ hā’āreṣ”, where the singular, “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, would have been used instead of the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”; this would also agree with the singular verb, “bā·rā (Created)”. In the Book of Isaiah, we read, “Thus says God (hā·’êl, lit, The God), the LORD (yehôvâh), Who Created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and what comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it” (42:5). In referring to the Creation of the entire universe, as in Genesis 1:1, Isaiah uses the singular “’êl”, and not the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”.

From Genesis 1:2, onwards, we have a more detailed Account of the Creation of “the heavens and the earth”.

When we get to verses 26 and 27, it becomes clear why the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, and not the singular “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, is used in verse 1, and in over 2600 times in the Old Testament.

“Then God said, “Let Us Make man in Our Image, according to Our Likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”. So God Created man in His Own Image; in the Image of God He created him; male and female He created them”

In verse 26, we have “˒ĕlōhı̂m” (mas. plural), as the Speaker, Who says, “let US make (na-‘ă-śeh, plural) man, in OUR Image (bəṣaləmēnû, plural) , according to OUR Likeness (kiḏəmûṯēnû, plural)

It must be asked, if God were Unitarian, then surely we would have expected verse 26 to read:

“Then God said, I have Made man in My Image, according to My Likeness”

In verse 27 it goes on to say, “So God (ĕlōhı̂m) Created man in His Own Image (bə·ṣal·mōw) ; in the Image (bə·ṣe·lem) of God (ĕlōhı̂m) He created him”. As we read in Genesis 9:6, “for in the Image of God (bə·ṣe·lem ˒ĕlōhı̂m) made He man”. Why the plural in verse 26?

Those who reject the Plurality of Persons in “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, have suggested, as in the Jewish Palestinian Targum, “And the Lord said to the angels who ministered before Him, who had been created in the second day of the creation of the world, Let us make man in Our image, in Our likeness”. However, in verse 27, it reads, “And the Lord created man in His likeness: In the image of the Lord He created him”. In verse 26, God is supposed to be talking to His created “angels”, that He was going to Create humans, in OUR (God and His angels), Image and Likeness. But, in verse 27, and 9:6, it is clear, that humans are Created in the Image and Likeness of God, with no mention of the “angels”! Some have even suggested that God is here talking to His “divine council”. This is no more than human speculation, as there is not a single verse in the entire Old Testament, that even hints humans are Created in the Image and Likeness of God and His angels!

It is interesting, that in another Jewish Targum, The Jerusalem, verse 27 reads, “And the Word (Memra) of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them”. In the Targums, the “Memra of Yahweh”, is a Person, and Himself also Yahweh. Clear that the Jews themselves admit to Creation by more than One Person.

Some quote Malachi 2:10, as their “proof”, that the Father alone is the Creator; “Have we not all one Father (’e·ḥāḏ ’āḇ)? Has not one God (’e·ḥāḏ ’êl, sing) Created (bə·rā·’ā·nū) us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?”

Similarly, in Isaiah 51:13, “and have forgotten the LORD (Yehôvâh), your Maker (‘ō·śe·ḵā, sing), Who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth”

But, in Job 35:10, it is very interesting, “But none says, ‘Where is God my Maker, who gives songs in the night”. Here “God” is “˒ĕlōah”, masculine, singular; and “Maker”, “‘ō·śāy”, masculine, plural, literally, “God my Makers”. Again, why the singular “˒ĕlōah”, with the plural, “‘ō·śāy”? It is clear from this, that “˒ĕlōah”, is used to show the “Essential Unity”; and “‘ō·śāy”, for the “Plurality of Persons”. There is not other explanation for this. We should have expected, the singular “‘ō·śê·nî”.

This is also seen in Isaiah 54:5, “For your Maker (‘ō·śa·yiḵ, plural, your Makers) is your Husband (ḇō·‘ă·la·yiḵ, plural, your Husbands), the LORD of Hosts is His Name (šə·mōw, sing); and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called”. Why not as in Isaiah 51:13, where we read the singular?

Likewise, in Ecclesiastes 12:1, “Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth”

Here “your Creator”, “bō·wr·’e·ḵā”, is the masculine, plural, “your Creators”. Why the plural?

Genesis 46:3, “Then he said, “I am God (hā·’êl), the God (ĕ·lō·hê) of your father”

Literally, “I am the God, the Gods”

Exodus 20:5, “You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God”

“’ā·nō·ḵî Yehôvâh ’ĕ·lō·he·ḵā ’êl qan·nā”, literally, “I Yahweh your Gods God jealous” (also Deuteronomy 4:24, etc)

2 Samuel 22:32, “For who is God (’êl), but the LORD (Yehôvâh)? And who is a Rock, except our God (’ĕ·lō·hê·nū)?”

“God...Yahweh...Gods”

The singular ’êl, in these, and other passages, can only denote the “Essential Unity” of God; and the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, the “Plurality of Persons”.

There is also clear evidence in the Old Testament, of more than One Person Who is The Creator.

In Job chapter 38 we read, “Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said...Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?” (verses 1, 4)

And Isaiah 44:6, “This is what the LORD says, He who is the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no god besides Me”

Here we have “Yehôvâh”, as The Creator, and the Eternal God.

In Isaiah 48:12-13, it says:

“Listen to Me, Jacob, and Israel, the one called by Me: I am He; I am the first, I am also the last. My own hand founded the earth, and My right hand spread out the heavens; when I summoned them, they stood up together”

verse 16 reads,

“Approach Me and listen to this. From the beginning I have not spoken in secret; from the time anything existed, I was there.” And now the Lord God has sent Me and His Spirit”

Here the Speaker (1st Person, singular), Who is Himself The Creator and the Eternal God, says, that “’ă·ḏō·nāy Yehôvâh”, is SENDING (šə·lā·ḥa·nî, 3rd person, Another Person) Himself and the Spirit (wə·rū·ḥōw 3rd person, Another Person). Verse 17 confirms Who the Speaker is, “Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go”

In Proverbs 9:10, we read, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight”

“the LORD”, “Yehôvâh”, masculine, singular

“the Holy One”, “qə·ḏō·šîm”, masculine, plural, “the Holy Ones”

Proverbs 30:3, “I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One”

“the Holy One”, “qə·ḏō·šîm”, masculine, plural, “the Holy Ones”

The evidence from the Old Testament is overwhelmingly against God being Unitarian. It is abundantly clear to those who want to know what the Bible really teaches, that “˒ĕlōhı̂m” is not a single Person.

 

[Waggles]

The evidence from the Old Testament is overwhelmingly against God being Unitarian. It is abundantly clear to those who want to know what the Bible really teaches, that “˒ĕlōhı̂m” is not a single Person.

Good points - Michael Heiser has books on this - the Divine Council school of thought
The Jews themselves believed in and taught that there were two powers in Heaven as scripture often referred to YHWH speaking to YHWH and YHWH also being the Angel of the LORD.
With the rise of Christianity and Jesus [Y'shua] being deified as the God of salvation the offended Jews banned the teaching of the Two Powers in Heaven theology and denied Jesus as their Messiah.

Genesis 19:23 The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar.
24 Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulphur and fire from the LORD out of heaven.
Note the mention here of two YHWH, one in heaven who sends judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah at the bidding of YHWH on earth. This gives significant evidence for more than one person in the Godhead.
Also worth reading of Gideon's interactions with YHWH and the Angel of the Lord - similarly with Moses and the burning bush.

 

[Waggles]

Exodus 23:20 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared.
Exo 23:21 Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.
Exo 23:22 “But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

Isaiah 43:15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.”
24 You have not bought me sweet cane with money, or satisfied me with the fat of your sacrifices. But you have burdened me with your sins; you have wearied me with your iniquities.
25 “I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins.

Mark 2:5 And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
6 Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts,
7 “Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

 

[Waggles]

Genesis 22:10 Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son.
11 But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.”
12 He said, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me.”

 

[Waggles]

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, “I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned.”
4 When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”
5 Then he said, “Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.”
6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

Exodus 3:17 and I promise that I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt to the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, a land flowing with milk and honey.”’
18 And they will listen to your voice, and you and the elders of Israel shall go to the king of Egypt and say to him, ‘The LORD, the God of the Hebrews, has met with us; and now, please let us go a three days' journey into the wilderness,
that we may sacrifice to the LORD our God.’

1Corinthians 10:1 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 and did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: now the rock was the Christ.

Psalm 95:1 Oh come, let us sing to the LORD; let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation!
2 Let us come into his presence with thanksgiving; let us make a joyful noise to him with songs of praise!
3 For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

 

[Samson2020]

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ĕlōhı̂m: Plural Persons, or Majesty?


The very first verse in the Holy Bible reads, “In the beginning ˒ĕlōhı̂m Created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1)

“˒ĕlōhı̂m” is not a Name of God, but more a description or identity of the Supreme Divine Being in the Old Testament. “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is masculine in gender, and plural in number. It has most probably from the root “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, both are also masculine, but singular.

How are we to understand the plural form “˒ĕlōhı̂m”? The Jews understand it to mean:

“The most common of the originally appellative names of God is Elohim (אלהים), plural in form though commonly construed with a singular verb or adjective. This is, most probably, to be explained as the plural of majesty or excellence, expressing high dignity or greatness” (Jewish Encyclopedia)

The Jews, it must be remembered, do not accept that the God of the Old Testament, is a “Plurality of Persons”. To them, God is just the One Person, Who is the Father.

Those who also reject that the God of the Bible is more than One Person, and anti-Trinitarian, are known as Unitarian, who, like the Jews, believe that God is just the One Person, Who is the Father.

The plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, as we are told here, by the Jews and Unitarians, is used to show the “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”, of the God of the Old Testament. Some Hebrew grammarians call the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, the “plural of Majesty”. There is no evidence in the entire Old Testament, to support this definition. It has been thought up by those, like the Jews and Unitarians, and others who reject that the God of the Bible is more than One Person. The evidence from the Old Testament, will show that “plural of Majesty”, is no more than human conjecture.

In the first place, “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is not a unique word, that is used only for The One True God of the Old Testament. It is not the same as the Name of God, “Yehôvâh”, which is only used for The One True God of the Old Testament, and is always in the singular. Why was not the singular, “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, not used in every instance in the Old Testament, for The One True God, as opposed to the false “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, idols, and human judges? Are we to assume, that it is only when “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is used for “God”, that it means “plural of majesty”; but, the singular “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”, when used for “God”, does not mean, “Majesty”, or “Greatness”, or “Excellence”? We shall see, that there are clear places in the Old Testament, where the singular “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah” are used, and the meaning does mean, “Majesty”, or “Greatness”, or “Excellence”.

Secondly, there are many instances in the Old Testament, where “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is used for false “gods”. In Exodus chapter 20, when The Ten Commandments were Written by God:

“And God (˒ĕlōhı̂m) spoke all these words, saying, “I am the LORD (Yehôvâh) your God (˒ĕlōhı̂m)...“You shall have no other gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) beside Me” (verses 1-3)

And verse 23, “You shall not make gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) of silver to be with me, nor shall you make for yourselves gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) of gold”

Does “˒ĕlōhı̂m” in all of these uses mean, “plural of Majesty”?

Another good example, is Psalm 82, which shows that the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, cannot be used as “plural of majesty”.

Verse 1 reads: “God (˒ĕlōhı̂m) has taken His place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) He holds judgment”

In verse 6 it says, “I said, “You are gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m), sons of the Most High, all of you”

verse 8, “Arise, O God (˒ĕlōhı̂m), judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations!”

Here we have “˒ĕlōhı̂m” used twice for The One True God of the Bible; and once for false “gods”, and once for “judges”. Each time it is the same plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”. Are we to understand that the same meaning, “plural of majesty”, is applied to the false gods, and human judges?

In other places we also have “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, used for humans who are “judges”

Exodus 21:6, “then his master must bring him to the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m)” (KJV, NKJV, NET)

Exodus 22:8, 9, “then the owner of the house will be brought before the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m)...come before the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m), and the one whom the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m) declare guilty ” (KJV, NKJV, NET)

“˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is also used for false idols, as in Genesis 31:30, 32 “And now you have gone away because you longed greatly for your father's house, but why did you steal my gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m)?...Anyone with whom you find your gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) shall not live”. Genesis 35:2,4 “So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Put away the foreign gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) that are among you and purify yourselves and change your garments...So they gave to Jacob all the foreign gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) that they had”. Exodus 32:31, “So Moses returned to the LORD and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) of gold”

In Exodus 7:1, God tells Moses, “And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (˒ĕlōhı̂m) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet”

“˒ĕlōhı̂m” is used about 2600 times in the Old Testament for The One True God. However, as we can see, it is also used for false gods, false idols, human judges, etc. If, as those who argue that we are to understand the plural form of “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, to describe God’s “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”; then are we to take these same meanings, for the false gods, false idols, human judges, etc? How exactly, can these be “majestic” or “great” or “excellent”? It is absurd!

I shall give examples from the Old Testament, where both the singular forms, “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”, and used for Almighty God, to describe His “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”. So, why could these words have been used in every instance in the Old Testament, for The One True God? This would have made it very clear, that GOD in the Old Testament, is just One Person, Who is the Father.

For the singular, “˒ēl”, there are examples that show it is used to decrible God’s “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”:

Genesis 14:18-22, “And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the Most High (‛elyôn) God (˒ēl). And he blessed him and said, “Blessed be Abram by God ('êl) Most High (‛elyôn), Possessor of heaven and earth. And blessed be the Most High (‛elyôn) God (˒ēl)... But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have lifted my hand to the LORD (yehôvâh), God (˒ēl) Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth”

Deuteronomy 7:21, “You shall not be in dread of them, for the LORD (yehôvâh) your God (˒ĕlōhı̂m) is in your midst, a great and awesome God (˒ēl)”

Joshua 22:22, “The LORD (yehôvâh) God (˒ēl) of gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m), the LORD (yehôvâh) God (˒ēl) of gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m), he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD (yehôvâh), (save us not this day,)”

2 Samuel 22:33, “This God (˒ēl) is my strong refuge and has made my way blameless”

Psalm 18:2, “The LORD (yehôvâh) is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God (˒ēl), my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower”

Psalm 90:2, “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from Everlasting to Everlasting you are God (˒ēl)”

Psalm 95:3, “For the LORD (yehôvâh) is a great God (˒ēl), and a great King above all gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m)”

Jeremiah 32:18, “Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great (gâdôl), the Mighty (gibwōr) God,(˒ēl) the LORD (yehôvâh) of hosts, is His Name”

Isaiah 9:6, is a Prophecy of The Messiah, Jesus Christ. One of Names by which He will be called, is “’êl gib·bō·wr”, translated even in the New World Translation, as “Mighty God”. The same Hebrew is found in chapter 10:21; Jeremiah 32:18; Deuteronomy 10:17. It is clear that there are Two distinct Persons Who are Mighty God.

The same can be seen for the singular ˒ĕlōah:

Deuteronomy 32:15, 17, “then he forsook God (˒ĕlōah) which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation...They sacrificed unto devils, not to God (˒ĕlōah); to gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) whom they knew not”

Job 11:7, “Canst thou by searching find out God (˒ĕlōah)? canst thou find out the Almighty (shadday) unto perfection?”

Job 22:26, “For then shalt thou have thy delight in the Almighty (shadday), and shalt lift up thy face unto God (˒ĕlōah)”

Job 27:10, “Will he delight himself in the Almighty (shadday)? will he always call upon God (˒ĕlōah)?”

Job 33:12, “Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God (˒ĕlōah) is Greater (râbâh) than man”

Psalm 18:31, “For who is God (˒ĕlōah) save the LORD (yehôvâh)? or who is a Rock save our God (˒ĕlōhı̂m)?”

Psalm 114:7, “Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord ('âdôn), at the presence of the God (˒ĕlōah) of Jacob”

Isaiah 44:8, “Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God (˒ĕlōah) besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.”

In all of these examples, it is clear that both “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”, are used to describe “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”, of The One True God of the Old Testament. So why would the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, be used, for what the singular already does?

It is clear that the use of the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is not to describe the “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”, of The One True God of the Old Testament, which is already done by the singular, “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”. There is also clear evidence in the Old Testament, to show that the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is used because The One True God of the Old Testament, is not One Person, Who is the Father.

If, as those who argue for Unitarianism, God is One Person, there can be no doubt, that Genesis 1:1, would have been written, “bərē’šîṯ bārā’ ’ĕl/˒ĕlōah ’ēṯ haššāmayim wə’ēṯ hā’āreṣ”, where the singular, “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, would have been used instead of the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”; this would also agree with the singular verb, “bā·rā (Created)”. In the Book of Isaiah, we read, “Thus says God (hā·’êl, lit, The God), the LORD (yehôvâh), Who Created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and what comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it” (42:5). In referring to the Creation of the entire universe, as in Genesis 1:1, Isaiah uses the singular “’êl”, and not the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”.

From Genesis 1:2, onwards, we have a more detailed Account of the Creation of “the heavens and the earth”.

When we get to verses 26 and 27, it becomes clear why the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, and not the singular “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, is used in verse 1, and in over 2600 times in the Old Testament.

“Then God said, “Let Us Make man in Our Image, according to Our Likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”. So God Created man in His Own Image; in the Image of God He created him; male and female He created them”

In verse 26, we have “˒ĕlōhı̂m” (mas. plural), as the Speaker, Who says, “let US make (na-‘ă-śeh, plural) man, in OUR Image (bəṣaləmēnû, plural) , according to OUR Likeness (kiḏəmûṯēnû, plural)

It must be asked, if God were Unitarian, then surely we would have expected verse 26 to read:

“Then God said, I have Made man in My Image, according to My Likeness”

In verse 27 it goes on to say, “So God (ĕlōhı̂m) Created man in His Own Image (bə·ṣal·mōw) ; in the Image (bə·ṣe·lem) of God (ĕlōhı̂m) He created him”. As we read in Genesis 9:6, “for in the Image of God (bə·ṣe·lem ˒ĕlōhı̂m) made He man”. Why the plural in verse 26?

Those who reject the Plurality of Persons in “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, have suggested, as in the Jewish Palestinian Targum, “And the Lord said to the angels who ministered before Him, who had been created in the second day of the creation of the world, Let us make man in Our image, in Our likeness”. However, in verse 27, it reads, “And the Lord created man in His likeness: In the image of the Lord He created him”. In verse 26, God is supposed to be talking to His created “angels”, that He was going to Create humans, in OUR (God and His angels), Image and Likeness. But, in verse 27, and 9:6, it is clear, that humans are Created in the Image and Likeness of God, with no mention of the “angels”! Some have even suggested that God is here talking to His “divine council”. This is no more than human speculation, as there is not a single verse in the entire Old Testament, that even hints humans are Created in the Image and Likeness of God and His angels!

It is interesting, that in another Jewish Targum, The Jerusalem, verse 27 reads, “And the Word (Memra) of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them”. In the Targums, the “Memra of Yahweh”, is a Person, and Himself also Yahweh. Clear that the Jews themselves admit to Creation by more than One Person.

Some quote Malachi 2:10, as their “proof”, that the Father alone is the Creator; “Have we not all one Father (’e·ḥāḏ ’āḇ)? Has not one God (’e·ḥāḏ ’êl, sing) Created (bə·rā·’ā·nū) us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?”

Similarly, in Isaiah 51:13, “and have forgotten the LORD (Yehôvâh), your Maker (‘ō·śe·ḵā, sing), Who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth”

But, in Job 35:10, it is very interesting, “But none says, ‘Where is God my Maker, who gives songs in the night”. Here “God” is “˒ĕlōah”, masculine, singular; and “Maker”, “‘ō·śāy”, masculine, plural, literally, “God my Makers”. Again, why the singular “˒ĕlōah”, with the plural, “‘ō·śāy”? It is clear from this, that “˒ĕlōah”, is used to show the “Essential Unity”; and “‘ō·śāy”, for the “Plurality of Persons”. There is not other explanation for this. We should have expected, the singular “‘ō·śê·nî”.

This is also seen in Isaiah 54:5, “For your Maker (‘ō·śa·yiḵ, plural, your Makers) is your Husband (ḇō·‘ă·la·yiḵ, plural, your Husbands), the LORD of Hosts is His Name (šə·mōw, sing); and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called”. Why not as in Isaiah 51:13, where we read the singular?

Likewise, in Ecclesiastes 12:1, “Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth”

Here “your Creator”, “bō·wr·’e·ḵā”, is the masculine, plural, “your Creators”. Why the plural?

Genesis 46:3, “Then he said, “I am God (hā·’êl), the God (ĕ·lō·hê) of your father”

Literally, “I am the God, the Gods”

Exodus 20:5, “You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God”

“’ā·nō·ḵî Yehôvâh ’ĕ·lō·he·ḵā ’êl qan·nā”, literally, “I Yahweh your Gods God jealous” (also Deuteronomy 4:24, etc)

2 Samuel 22:32, “For who is God (’êl), but the LORD (Yehôvâh)? And who is a Rock, except our God (’ĕ·lō·hê·nū)?”

“God...Yahweh...Gods”

The singular ’êl, in these, and other passages, can only denote the “Essential Unity” of God; and the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, the “Plurality of Persons”.

There is also clear evidence in the Old Testament, of more than One Person Who is The Creator.

In Job chapter 38 we read, “Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said...Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?” (verses 1, 4)

And Isaiah 44:6, “This is what the LORD says, He who is the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no god besides Me”

Here we have “Yehôvâh”, as The Creator, and the Eternal God.

In Isaiah 48:12-13, it says:

“Listen to Me, Jacob, and Israel, the one called by Me: I am He; I am the first, I am also the last. My own hand founded the earth, and My right hand spread out the heavens; when I summoned them, they stood up together”

verse 16 reads,

“Approach Me and listen to this. From the beginning I have not spoken in secret; from the time anything existed, I was there.” And now the Lord God has sent Me and His Spirit”

Here the Speaker (1st Person, singular), Who is Himself The Creator and the Eternal God, says, that “’ă·ḏō·nāy Yehôvâh”, is SENDING (šə·lā·ḥa·nî, 3rd person, Another Person) Himself and the Spirit (wə·rū·ḥōw 3rd person, Another Person). Verse 17 confirms Who the Speaker is, “Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go”

In Proverbs 9:10, we read, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight”

“the LORD”, “Yehôvâh”, masculine, singular

“the Holy One”, “qə·ḏō·šîm”, masculine, plural, “the Holy Ones”

Proverbs 30:3, “I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One”

“the Holy One”, “qə·ḏō·šîm”, masculine, plural, “the Holy Ones”

The evidence from the Old Testament is overwhelmingly against God being Unitarian. It is abundantly clear to those who want to know what the Bible really teaches, that “˒ĕlōhı̂m” is not a single Person.

From what little I have learned on this subject, I will try to share and not mess it up too bad.

Elohim denotes the "substance of DIETY". Elohim is a "TITLE" not a name". It is not Yahweh. And as you have shown it is a "plural" word.

Now the hard part.

The Elohim is a group of many individual members similar to the cells of your heart, which is a living portion of you but is not you. The Elohim are a group of
distinct spirits, and the substance of diety, as they are a living portion of God.

Look at the plural Elohim as the creative aspect of God, the reproductive center of Gods power.
"In the beginning God(Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."

We know that without Jesus nothing that was created or made was done without him. Right?
The thing is that the creative center is composed of those many individual spirits of which He was the Captain and thus our brother prior to becoming
an Adamite as we all have.
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He (Jesus) also Himself likewise partook of the same." "I have said Ye are gods(elohim), and
all of you are CHILDREN of the Most High."

These verses should provide understanding of where we all come from. God. We are all from Him for "According as He hath CHOSEN US IN HIM before the
foundation of the world" And Jesus was FOREORDAINED before the foundation of the world to be the propitiation for the sin of the world." However, Jesus was
not BEGOTTEN of God until the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and the spirit of the Elohim captain was placed in the developing embryo in her womb.
As the Bible states " THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee" and "I will become His Father, and He shall become My Son" and "when He bringeth in the FIRST
BEGOTEN into the world, He saith, let all the angels of God worship Him."
These verses show us that on a particular day Jesus was begotten as a flesh man born of a woman, made under the law, who was the only begotten of God,
even though He existed first before anything else as captain of the creative group. "The BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD" but in that state as
magnificent as it was He had not yet come to the glory that God intended for Him. That would not happen until after His crucifixion and resurrection.

This understanding, though very limited, should allow all to see that He(Jesus) was preferred before any of us, as John might say, because He always was
before us as captain of the group that would all partake of flesh and blood.

Now to prove a point. In order to be preferred there must of necessity be something else to be preferred over. And if you are preferred, there is someone greater
than you that is doing the preferring.
Thus Jesus is "God", he is "Elohim" he is "Diety" but he is NOT YAHWEH. And as He himself noted in John 10:34 so are we for we are all children of the Most High.

"And truly if they (the elohim) had been mindful of that country from whence they came out(God), they might have had opportunity to have returned."
But that was not the Fathers will as He provided the carnal mind for each spirit of the elohim group so they would not be mindful of where they came from.
With one exception Jesus Himself.

If I might add that in order for one to be reconciled to God, one must have had some form of relationship with God prior? Yes?

If Jesus was on earth to "declare thy name unto my brethren" and we are all the children of the Most High then were we His brethren before we were placed
in these earthen vessels? Yes.
"For both He that sanctifieth(Jesus) and they who are sanctified (us) are all of one (God): for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brethren"

I'll stop here for now and let that sink in a bit because I know it will bother some.
And just to note I am not trying to teach anything here but only to expound on what I have seen. Take it or leave it as you see fit. Study it out for yourselves.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Elohim is not a name, but a TITLE, same as "El Shaddai". His one and only name is YHWH, "I am who I am".

 

[YourWordIsTruth]

From what little I have learned on this subject, I will try to share and not mess it up too bad.

Elohim denotes the "substance of DIETY". Elohim is a "TITLE" not a name". It is not Yahweh. And as you have shown it is a "plural" word.

Now the hard part.

The Elohim is a group of many individual members similar to the cells of your heart, which is a living portion of you but is not you. The Elohim are a group of
distinct spirits, and the substance of diety, as they are a living portion of God.

Look at the plural Elohim as the creative aspect of God, the reproductive center of Gods power.
"In the beginning God(Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."

We know that without Jesus nothing that was created or made was done without him. Right?
The thing is that the creative center is composed of those many individual spirits of which He was the Captain and thus our brother prior to becoming
an Adamite as we all have.
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He (Jesus) also Himself likewise partook of the same." "I have said Ye are gods(elohim), and
all of you are CHILDREN of the Most High."

These verses should provide understanding of where we all come from. God. We are all from Him for "According as He hath CHOSEN US IN HIM before the
foundation of the world" And Jesus was FOREORDAINED before the foundation of the world to be the propitiation for the sin of the world." However, Jesus was
not BEGOTTEN of God until the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and the spirit of the Elohim captain was placed in the developing embryo in her womb.
As the Bible states " THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee" and "I will become His Father, and He shall become My Son" and "when He bringeth in the FIRST
BEGOTEN into the world, He saith, let all the angels of God worship Him."
These verses show us that on a particular day Jesus was begotten as a flesh man born of a woman, made under the law, who was the only begotten of God,
even though He existed first before anything else as captain of the creative group. "The BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD" but in that state as
magnificent as it was He had not yet come to the glory that God intended for Him. That would not happen until after His crucifixion and resurrection.

This understanding, though very limited, should allow all to see that He(Jesus) was preferred before any of us, as John might say, because He always was
before us as captain of the group that would all partake of flesh and blood.

Now to prove a point. In order to be preferred there must of necessity be something else to be preferred over. And if you are preferred, there is someone greater
than you that is doing the preferring.
Thus Jesus is "God", he is "Elohim" he is "Diety" but he is NOT YAHWEH. And as He himself noted in John 10:34 so are we for we are all children of the Most High.

"And truly if they (the elohim) had been mindful of that country from whence they came out(God), they might have had opportunity to have returned."
But that was not the Fathers will as He provided the carnal mind for each spirit of the elohim group so they would not be mindful of where they came from.
With one exception Jesus Himself.

If I might add that in order for one to be reconciled to God, one must have had some form of relationship with God prior? Yes?

If Jesus was on earth to "declare thy name unto my brethren" and we are all the children of the Most High then were we His brethren before we were placed
in these earthen vessels? Yes.
"For both He that sanctifieth(Jesus) and they who are sanctified (us) are all of one (God): for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brethren"

I'll stop here for now and let that sink in a bit because I know it will bother some.
And just to note I am not trying to teach anything here but only to expound on what I have seen. Take it or leave it as you see fit. Study it out for yourselves.

Hi, thanks for taking the time to share

I would like to respond to something that you have said, which is Biblically not correct, "Thus Jesus is "God", he is "Elohim" he is "Diety" but he is NOT YAHWEH. And as He himself noted in John 10:34 so are we for we are all children of the Most High"

Jesus Christ Himself says that He is Yahweh. In the Gospels, we read of Jesus saying, "“This is he of whom it is written, “‘Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way before you.’” (Matthew 11:10, and the others). This verse partly refers to Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I send My Messenger, And he shall make ready a way before Me.”. However, they way that Jesus quotes these words, is very interesting. The Lord Jesus Christ, on His own Authority, has changed the words, so that they refer directly to Himself, what is in Malachi, of Yahweh. Jesus has changed the first person, “before Me (μου)”, to the second person, “before thee (σου)”. In the passage in Malachi, Yahweh speaks of the “messenger”, who is John the Baptist, as His forerunner, “going before Him”. Jesus, by changing the pronoun, appropriates what Yahweh Speaks in Malachi, to Himself, and makes John the Baptist as His own “messenger”, who went before Him! In the passage in Malachi, we also have the Coming of the “the Messenger (Angel) of the Covenant”, Who is “the Lord ('âdôn) Whom you seek”, before Whom John the Baptist went to “prepare the Way”!
Matthew 3:3, and the other Gospels, also teaches that John the Baptist was the Forerunner of Yahweh, as in Jesus Christ, “God manifested in the flesh” (1 Timothy 3:16. Paul's words)

“For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare you the Way of the Lord, make His paths straight.”

In the original verse in Isaiah 40:3, it reads, “The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare you the Way of the LORD (Yahweh), make straight in the desert a highway for our God”

By using this passage in Isaiah for the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Gospels, is beyond any doubt, one of the strongest evidences in Scripture, for the absolute Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ! Only those who doubt the Word of God, will doubt this about Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ says that He is YHWH, The Eternal, Creator GOD.

Malachi 3:1 reads in full, "See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His temple, the Messenger of the covenant you desire—see, He is coming,” says Yahweh of Hosts". It is clear that the Speaker is "Yahweh of Hosts". Yahweh here says, that John the Baptist, in Prophecy, "will clear the way before Me", which is what Isaiah also says. This is fulfilled in the Coming of Jesus Christ, Who is Yahweh!

In isaiah 48:16-17, etc, we have the Speaker Who is Yahweh. He says that another, Who is "Adonai Yahweh", is sending Him and the Spirit. We have 2 distinct Persons, the SENDER and the SENT, both Who are Yahweh.

In Zechariah 2:6-11, we read:

“Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north,’ says Yahweh; ‘for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the sky,’ says Yahweh. ‘Come, Zion! Escape, you who dwell with the daughter of Babylon.’ For Yahweh of Armies says: ‘For Honor He has sent Me to the nations which plundered you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For, behold, I will shake My hand over them, and they will be a plunder to those who served them; and you will know that Yahweh of Armies has sent Me. Sing and rejoice, daughter of Zion; for, behold, I Come, and I will dwell within you,’ says Yahweh. Many nations shall join themselves to Yahweh in that day, and shall be My people; and I will dwell among you, and you shall know that Yahweh of Armies has sent Me to you”

This is one of the clearest passages in the Old Testament, where we read of Two distinct Persons, Who are called, Yahweh.

The passage teaches about the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is clear that the Speaker is Yahweh, Who says that He is “Sent” by Another Person, Who is “Yahweh of Armies”. The One Who is “Sent”, cannot be the same Person, as the One who “Sends”, they are very much distinct, but coequal.

Then we have, Peter in Acts 2:22, "Then everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”, and Paul in Romans 10:13, "For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved.". Which are quoted from Joel 2:32, "It will happen that whoever will call on Yahweh’s Name shall be saved". Thus, Jesus Christ is Yahweh!

In 1 Corinthians 10:9, Paul says, "Nor let us tempt the Christ, as some of them also tempted Him and were destroyed by serpents". Paul here is referring to Numbers 21:5-6, "And the people spoke against God and against Moses, Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, neither is there any water. And our soul hates this light bread. And Yahweh sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people. And many people of Israel died". Yahweh here is Jesus Christ.

Likewise, in Philippians 2:10, "that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth". Which is from Isaiah, where the Speaker is Yahweh, "I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear". Again, clearly used for Jesus Christ.

In John 12:41, in the context, we read, "Isaiah said these things when he saw His Glory and spoke of Him", which refers to Isaiah 6, which is Yahweh, the words in here, John says is Jesus Christ!

In discussion with the Jews in John 8, Jesus says to them, "πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί", which is literally, "before Abraham even existed I AM" (verse 58), which is a clear reference to Jesus' words to Moses in Exodus 3:14, "Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh”, where the majority of English Versions read, "I am Who/that I am" The Greek OT, the LXX, by Jewish scholars before Jesus was Born, reads, "Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", which literally has the meaning, "I am He Who Exists", or "I am the Eternal One". Even the English Bible produced by The Jewish Publication Society, The Tanakh, in 1917, which is from the Hebrew, reads: “And God said unto Moses: ‘I AM THAT I AM’; and He said: ‘Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.’”. In another earlier Jewish translation in English, by Dr A Benisch, it also reads: “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you” (The Jewish School and Family Bible, vol. I. 1864). The Jews in John 8:59, were about to stone Jesus to death, as they understood His words as blasphemy, in claiming to be Yahweh!

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Another good example, is Psalm 82, which shows that the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, cannot be used as “plural of majesty”.

Verse 1 reads: “God (˒ĕlōhı̂m) has taken His place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) He holds judgment”

In verse 6 it says, “I said, “You are gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m), sons of the Most High, all of you”

verse 8, “Arise, O God (˒ĕlōhı̂m), judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations!”

I am reminded of

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
James 3:1

which may better present the message we have in Psalm 82?

[not all translations give the same as you have shared here, which can by itself lead to improper understanding and 'definition'. ]



Bless you ....><>

 

[Samson2020]

Hi, thanks for taking the time to share

I would like to respond to something that you have said, which is Biblically not correct, "Thus Jesus is "God", he is "Elohim" he is "Diety" but he is NOT YAHWEH. And as He himself noted in John 10:34 so are we for we are all children of the Most High"

Jesus Christ Himself says that He is Yahweh. In the Gospels, we read of Jesus saying, "“This is he of whom it is written, “‘Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way before you.’” (Matthew 11:10, and the others). This verse partly refers to Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I send My Messenger, And he shall make ready a way before Me.”. However, they way that Jesus quotes these words, is very interesting. The Lord Jesus Christ, on His own Authority, has changed the words, so that they refer directly to Himself, what is in Malachi, of Yahweh. Jesus has changed the first person, “before Me (μου)”, to the second person, “before thee (σου)”. In the passage in Malachi, Yahweh speaks of the “messenger”, who is John the Baptist, as His forerunner, “going before Him”. Jesus, by changing the pronoun, appropriates what Yahweh Speaks in Malachi, to Himself, and makes John the Baptist as His own “messenger”, who went before Him! In the passage in Malachi, we also have the Coming of the “the Messenger (Angel) of the Covenant”, Who is “the Lord ('âdôn) Whom you seek”, before Whom John the Baptist went to “prepare the Way”!
Matthew 3:3, and the other Gospels, also teaches that John the Baptist was the Forerunner of Yahweh, as in Jesus Christ, “God manifested in the flesh” (1 Timothy 3:16. Paul's words)

“For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare you the Way of the Lord, make His paths straight.”

In the original verse in Isaiah 40:3, it reads, “The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare you the Way of the LORD (Yahweh), make straight in the desert a highway for our God”

By using this passage in Isaiah for the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Gospels, is beyond any doubt, one of the strongest evidences in Scripture, for the absolute Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ! Only those who doubt the Word of God, will doubt this about Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ says that He is YHWH, The Eternal, Creator GOD.

Malachi 3:1 reads in full, "See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His temple, the Messenger of the covenant you desire—see, He is coming,” says Yahweh of Hosts". It is clear that the Speaker is "Yahweh of Hosts". Yahweh here says, that John the Baptist, in Prophecy, "will clear the way before Me", which is what Isaiah also says. This is fulfilled in the Coming of Jesus Christ, Who is Yahweh!

In isaiah 48:16-17, etc, we have the Speaker Who is Yahweh. He says that another, Who is "Adonai Yahweh", is sending Him and the Spirit. We have 2 distinct Persons, the SENDER and the SENT, both Who are Yahweh.

In Zechariah 2:6-11, we read:

“Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north,’ says Yahweh; ‘for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the sky,’ says Yahweh. ‘Come, Zion! Escape, you who dwell with the daughter of Babylon.’ For Yahweh of Armies says: ‘For Honor He has sent Me to the nations which plundered you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For, behold, I will shake My hand over them, and they will be a plunder to those who served them; and you will know that Yahweh of Armies has sent Me. Sing and rejoice, daughter of Zion; for, behold, I Come, and I will dwell within you,’ says Yahweh. Many nations shall join themselves to Yahweh in that day, and shall be My people; and I will dwell among you, and you shall know that Yahweh of Armies has sent Me to you”

This is one of the clearest passages in the Old Testament, where we read of Two distinct Persons, Who are called, Yahweh.

The passage teaches about the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is clear that the Speaker is Yahweh, Who says that He is “Sent” by Another Person, Who is “Yahweh of Armies”. The One Who is “Sent”, cannot be the same Person, as the One who “Sends”, they are very much distinct, but coequal.

Then we have, Peter in Acts 2:22, "Then everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”, and Paul in Romans 10:13, "For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved.". Which are quoted from Joel 2:32, "It will happen that whoever will call on Yahweh’s Name shall be saved". Thus, Jesus Christ is Yahweh!

In 1 Corinthians 10:9, Paul says, "Nor let us tempt the Christ, as some of them also tempted Him and were destroyed by serpents". Paul here is referring to Numbers 21:5-6, "And the people spoke against God and against Moses, Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, neither is there any water. And our soul hates this light bread. And Yahweh sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people. And many people of Israel died". Yahweh here is Jesus Christ.

Likewise, in Philippians 2:10, "that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth". Which is from Isaiah, where the Speaker is Yahweh, "I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear". Again, clearly used for Jesus Christ.

In John 12:41, in the context, we read, "Isaiah said these things when he saw His Glory and spoke of Him", which refers to Isaiah 6, which is Yahweh, the words in here, John says is Jesus Christ!

In discussion with the Jews in John 8, Jesus says to them, "πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί", which is literally, "before Abraham even existed I AM" (verse 58), which is a clear reference to Jesus' words to Moses in Exodus 3:14, "Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh”, where the majority of English Versions read, "I am Who/that I am" The Greek OT, the LXX, by Jewish scholars before Jesus was Born, reads, "Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", which literally has the meaning, "I am He Who Exists", or "I am the Eternal One". Even the English Bible produced by The Jewish Publication Society, The Tanakh, in 1917, which is from the Hebrew, reads: “And God said unto Moses: ‘I AM THAT I AM’; and He said: ‘Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.’”. In another earlier Jewish translation in English, by Dr A Benisch, it also reads: “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you” (The Jewish School and Family Bible, vol. I. 1864). The Jews in John 8:59, were about to stone Jesus to death, as they understood His words as blasphemy, in claiming to be Yahweh!

I was wondering which particular part of the post you might have a problem with. It wasn't an easy post to put out there. In fact the main part of the post
was simply trying to explain what I had seen Elohim to mean and its implications to all of us, including Jesus.

I will only state the following, and let you determine its meaning.

James 1:13 "Let no man say when He is tempted, I am tempted of God, FOR GOD CANNOT BE TEMPTED WITH EVIL, neither tempteth He any man."
After all God created evil. Isaiah 45:7

Hebrews 4:15 "For we have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; BUT WAS IN ALL POINTS TEMPTED LIKE AS WE
ARE, yet without sin."

Draw your own conclusion.

Also to simply point out that John as the messenger was to prepare the way of the Lord. We agree on that, no problem. But we have to keep in mind here that
God Himself resided in Jesus Christ fully and was the one who told Jesus what to say for God was reconciling the world unto Himself.
Thus when Jesus says "If you have seen me you have seen the Father" Doesn't mean that Jesus is the Father but the Father who dwelt in Him was made visible
by the works that were done seemingly by the hands of Jesus. John 14:10

Here I would ask a personal question of you. Have you ever been sent to do or say anything by the Lord that was fulfilled by the Lord?

 

[YourWordIsTruth]

I was wondering which particular part of the post you might have a problem with. It wasn't an easy post to put out there. In fact the main part of the post
was simply trying to explain what I had seen Elohim to mean and its implications to all of us, including Jesus.

I will only state the following, and let you determine its meaning.

James 1:13 "Let no man say when He is tempted, I am tempted of God, FOR GOD CANNOT BE TEMPTED WITH EVIL, neither tempteth He any man."
After all God created evil. Isaiah 45:7

Hebrews 4:15 "For we have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; BUT WAS IN ALL POINTS TEMPTED LIKE AS WE
ARE, yet without sin."

Draw your own conclusion.

Also to simply point out that John as the messenger was to prepare the way of the Lord. We agree on that, no problem. But we have to keep in mind here that
God Himself resided in Jesus Christ fully and was the one who told Jesus what to say for God was reconciling the world unto Himself.
Thus when Jesus says "If you have seen me you have seen the Father" Doesn't mean that Jesus is the Father but the Father who dwelt in Him was made visible
by the works that were done seemingly by the hands of Jesus. John 14:10

Here I would ask a personal question of you. Have you ever been sent to do or say anything by the Lord that was fulfilled by the Lord?

You said, "Thus Jesus is "God", he is "Elohim" he is "Diety" but he is NOT YAHWEH"

The Bible is very clear as I have shown, that Jesus Christ is YHWH.

 

[YourWordIsTruth]

Greetings,




I am reminded of

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
James 3:1

which may better present the message we have in Psalm 82?

[not all translations give the same as you have shared here, which can by itself lead to improper understanding and 'definition'. ]



Bless you ....><>

I don't think that you have understood what I said about the use of "Elohim" in Psalm 82

 

[Waggles]

John 17:5 And now glorify THOU me with thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17:21 that all be one; even as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee, that THEY also be in us: that the world believe that thou didst send me.
22 And I have given them the glory which thou hast given me; that they be one, even as we are one;

 

[Waggles]

Psalm 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
Psalm 136:2 Give thanks to the God of gods, for his steadfast love endures forever.
Psalm 135:5 For I know that the LORD is great, and that our Lord is above all gods.

Even demons and devils know about this - who Jesus is
Mark 5:7 and crying out with a loud voice, saith, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, torment me not.
8 For he said to him, Come forth, unclean spirit, out of the man.

Luke 1:31 And lo, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bear a Son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 HE shall be great, and shall be called Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give him the throne of his father David:

Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be sons of the Most High: for HE is kind toward the unthankful and evil.

Luke 8:28 And seeing Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beseech thee, torment me not.

Acts 7:47 But Solomon built him a house.
48 Howbeit the Most High dwelleth not in houses made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Acts 16:17 The same following after Paul and us cried out, saying, These men are bondmen of the Most High God, who proclaim to you a way of salvation.

 

[Waggles]

Daniel 7:9 “As I looked, thrones were placed, and the Ancient of Days took his seat; his clothing was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames; its wheels were burning fire.
10 A stream of fire issued and came out from before him; a thousand thousands served him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him; the court sat in judgment, and the books were opened.

Rev 1:12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,
13 and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest.
14 The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire,
15 his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters.
1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last,
18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

Rev 4:8 And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”
11 “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honour and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.”

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books,
according to what they had done.

 

[Waggles]

Ezekiel 1:26 And above the expanse that [is] over their head, as an appearance of a sapphire stone, [is] the likeness of a throne, and on the likeness of the throne a likeness, as the appearance of [a] man on it from above.

Ezekiel 8:2 Then I looked, and behold, a form that had the appearance of a man. Below what appeared to be his waist was fire, and above his waist was something like the appearance of brightness, like gleaming metal.

Daniel 7:13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus was silent. And the high priest said to him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou art the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith to him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his garments, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy: what further need have we of witnesses? see, now ye have heard the blasphemy:

Matthew 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

I don't think that you have understood what I said about the use of "Elohim" in Psalm 82

I think I did understand what you were suggesting.
Perhaps you did not understand what or why i wrote as i did?

I honestly appreciate that you are sharing what you fully believe to be, but that does not in itself automatically seal the matter and close all doors for further consideration. [with me or anyone - same goes for everybody... and it is always good to study openly together, no matter who is presenting a case or not]

Sometimes it is also such that with a little patience and perseverance, we discover that the Lord has both 'sides' in the 'equation' and even more. He is all wise and wonderful... this much I know that we ought to agree upon.


Bless you ....><>

 

[YourWordIsTruth]

Greetings,



I think I did understand what you were suggesting.
Perhaps you did not understand what or why i wrote as i did?

I honestly appreciate that you are sharing what you fully believe to be, but that does not in itself automatically seal the matter and close all doors for further consideration. [with me or anyone - same goes for everybody... and it is always good to study openly together, no matter who is presenting a case or not]

Sometimes it is also such that with a little patience and perseverance, we discover that the Lord has both 'sides' in the 'equation' and even more. He is all wise and wonderful... this much I know that we ought to agree upon.


Bless you ....><>

can you expand on what you are saying on Psalm 82, and how you think that I could be wrong on this?

I don't think that there is any doubt, from the research that I have provided in the OP, that "Elohim" is never used in the Bible for "plural of majasties", but rather to show the plurality of Persons in the Godhead.

I will like to see some good arguments, if there are any, to disprove my own reasoning in the OP.

Thanks

 

[Waggles]

Psalm 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
God > H430 אֱלֹהִים 'ĕlôhı̂ym
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God;
gods > H430 אֱלֹהִים 'ĕlôhı̂ym
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God;
congregation > H5712 עֵדָה ‛êdâh
Feminine of H5707 in the original sense of fixture; a stated assemblage (specifically a concourse, or generally a family or crowd):
mighty > H410 אֵל 'êl
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity):

 

[Waggles]

Ephesians 6:10 For the rest, be strong in the Lord, and in the might of his strength.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For our wrestling is not against blood and flesh, but against the principalities, against the authorities, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spirituals of the wickedness in the heavenlies.