“The Law of Sin”

[NetChaplain]

What is your definition of "the Law?" If you mean the TC'S (Law of Moses), only the Hebrew/Jew had to die to it, which is what occurs at rebirth. Mankind is under the curse of "the law of sin," which was incurred to mankind from Adam (Rom 5:12). This law of sin has its force from God's command to Adam that, “thou shalt surely die” (Gen 2:17),” and when sin is finished,” which was at the time of his "transgression" (Rom 5:14; Gen 3:6), the curse of the law of sin and death came into effect.

God pronounced the law of sin and death on all mankind in Genesis 2:17. This became the law of sin, which states that "the soul that sins shall die" (Eze 18:4, 20). This curse was before the Mosaic Law (Rom 5:13) and was upon mankind. Therefore, in regeneration, the Hebrew/Jew is dead to the Law, and the law of sin, but the Gentile only to the law of sin. The curse of death continues in the body, but in the spirit, the guilt of sin is nullified (Col 2:14), and its dominion (Rom 6:12, 14) restrained, which restraint is commensurate with the believers "conformation."

Galatians 5:16: ". . . and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
JG - “He does not say there shall be no flesh, nor any lust of the flesh in them if they walk spiritually; or that the flesh should not act and operate in them; or that they should do no sinful action; all which is only true of Christ; and the contrary is to be found and observed in all true Christians, though ever so spiritual.

"But that they should not fulfil or perfect the lust of the flesh; should not give up themselves entirely to the power and dictates of the flesh, so as to be under it and at its command, and be obedient servants and slaves unto it; for, in this sense only, such that are spiritual do not, commit sin, they do not make a trade of it, it is not their constant employ or course of conversation.”

The fulfilling of sin, same as bringing sin to completion, or same as "when sin is finished" (Jam 1:15) designs the fact of not being a prisoner or "captive" (Rom 7:23) to it, but rather a willing subject, who does not feel captive against his will. If your desire is to be where sin is, you’re not a captive (from captivated) because it is according to your will and desires.

All are indwelt by sin through the sin nature, but only through regeneration does one become an unwilling subject to it, which is the intention of the word "captive," denoting it’s against one's will. Hence Paul’s, “For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do” (Rom 7:15).

The desire Paul maintains against the sin nature comes from regeneration, a condition which is void in an unbeliever. Romans Eight does not instruct the absence of the sin nature, but the freedom believers have from its condemnation (8:1, 33), and Romans Six from its dominion (6:12, 14). Unbelievers are not captives, but rather willing subjects, as we were before Christ. Thus, sin is in us, but we are not after it, e.g. "in it" (Rom 8:9).


Note: The term "flesh" in the NT in nearly all of its usages refers to the sinful nature ("old man," Adamic nature), not the physical body. Otherwise it would conflict with what Paul said concerning us not being in the flesh.

 

[NoHype]

What is your definition of "the Law?" If you mean the TC'S (Law of Moses), only the Hebrew/Jew had to die to it, which is what occurs at rebirth. Mankind is under the curse of "the law of sin," which was incurred to mankind from Adam (Rom 5:12). This law of sin has its force from God's command to Adam that, “thou shalt surely die” (Gen 2:17),” and when sin is finished,” which was at the time of his "transgression" (Rom 5:14; Gen 3:6), the curse of the law of sin and death came into effect.

God pronounced the law of sin and death on all mankind in Genesis 2:17. This became the law of sin, which states that "the soul that sins shall die" (Eze 18:4, 20). This curse was before the Mosaic Law (Rom 5:13) and was upon mankind. Therefore, in regeneration, the Hebrew/Jew is dead to the Law, and the law of sin, but the Gentile only to the law of sin. The curse of death continues in the body, but in the spirit, the guilt of sin is nullified (Col 2:14), and its dominion (Rom 6:12, 14) restrained, which restraint is commensurate with the believers "conformation."

Galatians 5:16: ". . . and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
JG - “He does not say there shall be no flesh, nor any lust of the flesh in them if they walk spiritually; or that the flesh should not act and operate in them; or that they should do no sinful action; all which is only true of Christ; and the contrary is to be found and observed in all true Christians, though ever so spiritual.

"But that they should not fulfil or perfect the lust of the flesh; should not give up themselves entirely to the power and dictates of the flesh, so as to be under it and at its command, and be obedient servants and slaves unto it; for, in this sense only, such that are spiritual do not, commit sin, they do not make a trade of it, it is not their constant employ or course of conversation.”

The fulfilling of sin, same as bringing sin to completion, or same as "when sin is finished" (Jam 1:15) designs the fact of not being a prisoner or "captive" (Rom 7:23) to it, but rather a willing subject, who does not feel captive against his will. If your desire is to be where sin is, you’re not a captive (from captivated) because it is according to your will and desires.

All are indwelt by sin through the sin nature, but only through regeneration does one become an unwilling subject to it, which is the intention of the word "captive," denoting it’s against one's will. Hence Paul’s, “For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do” (Rom 7:15).

The desire Paul maintains against the sin nature comes from regeneration, a condition which is void in an unbeliever. Romans Eight does not instruct the absence of the sin nature, but the freedom believers have from its condemnation (8:1, 33), and Romans Six from its dominion (6:12, 14). Unbelievers are not captives, but rather willing subjects, as we were before Christ. Thus, sin is in us, but we are not after it, e.g. "in it" (Rom 8:9).


Note: The term "flesh" in the NT in nearly all of its usages refers to the sinful nature ("old man," Adamic nature), not the physical body. Otherwise it would conflict with what Paul said concerning us not being in the flesh.

Some of that you got right.

Rom 8:23
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
(KJV)

Rom 6:6-7
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(KJV)

Apostle Paul strongly connected our flesh body in that, even more so in Romans 7. It is not our flesh bodies that are saved, it is our spirit that dwells inside these fleshy bodies which is saved by Christ Jesus.

This is why we can never be perfect without sin while in these flesh bodies, and why our Lord Jesus could be without sin because He is God The Saviour.

Modern Bible translations have gotten away from this concept about flesh=sin and death, but the 1611 KJV Bible does not, and it's because that's how the concept is written in the Bible manuscripts.

Thus that term "sin nature" is really a bated term devised by those who think to live in their flesh forever. The NIV follows that line of thinking especially.

 

[NetChaplain]

that the body of sin might be destroyed,

This is not the physical body, by "the body of sin" is meant sin itself, which consists, as a body does, of various members, i.e. Col 3:5.

The body is a thing and is used to incur sin by the original sinful nature (old man), but the physical body itself is "pure" per Romans 14:20. Here, Paul is referring to foods, but it no less applies to all things such as a car, pencil, etc. Things are not evil, only spirits.

Also, the old man is only crucified, not dead. We are dead to sin, but sin is not dead to us.

 

[NoHype]

This is not the physical body, by "the body of sin" is meant sin itself, which consists, as a body does, of various members, i.e. Col 3:5.

The body is a thing and is used to incur sin by the original sinful nature (old man), but the physical body itself is "pure" per Romans 14:20. Here, Paul is referring to foods, but it no less applies to all things such as a car, pencil, etc. Things are not evil, only spirits.

Also, the old man is only crucified, not dead. We are dead to sin, but sin is not dead to us.

It is our flesh state in this world that causes most sin. That's why Paul connected flesh with the law of sin in Romans 7 while he contrasted the law of sin with God's law which is spiritual. It's about the order of the flesh vs. spirit once again, like Jesus showed in John 3:6.

That doesn't mean we are to hate our own flesh bodies, but to understand this difference between our flesh connected with sin vs. our spirit connected with righteousness.

 

[NetChaplain]

It is our flesh state in this world that causes most sin.

The causation of all sin is derived from two sources: Satan, and the human nature--which is the Adamic nature or old man, and this is what Satan uses, just as the Spirit of God uses the life of Christ (Col 3:4) and new nature of Christ (Col 3:10) within the believer. The body does not incur the guilt anymore than a glove is the blame for what the hand does, they are just being used and have no soul (decisive autonomy), and it is the nature in the soul which incurs guilt to the spirit of the soul.

It's the nature of a spirit that determines the quality; sinful or holy. In the believer there is a dichotomy between the sinful nature, and the Spirit of God (Gal 5:17), and His ongoing opposition to this human nature leads all believers into what the Father does within them, which is in all who are born again (Phl 2:13).

How the nature is, so goes the being! Without the new nature, the Spirit has not that which to work with in us (1 Pet 1:23; 1 John 3:9). In Christ, the human sinful nature is nullified concerning its guilt, and restrained concerning its dominance. "The blood procures pardon from sin and the Cross procures power over sin," through the ongoing crucifixion of "the old man" (Rom 6:6), which restrains it, not eradicates it as some may believe. If this nature was dead, there could be no more sin to deal with! The work of the Lord Jesus and the the Spirit frees the believer to yield to God's work within, which is revealed in our ways without.

 

[NetChaplain]

That doesn't mean we are to hate our own flesh bodies

An additional note: If someone says he hates himself, it's just out of anger because one cannot hate self.

"For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church" (Eph 5:29). The Greek usage here for flesh is the physical body, shown from the preceding verse.

 

[NoHype]

The causation of all sin is derived from two sources: Satan, and the human nature--which is the Adamic nature or old man, and this is what Satan uses, just as the Spirit of God uses the life of Christ (Col 3:4) and new nature of Christ (Col 3:10) within the believer. The body does not incur the guilt anymore than a glove is the blame for what the hand does, they are just being used and have no soul (decisive autonomy), and it is the nature in the soul which incurs guilt to the spirit of the soul.

It's the nature of a spirit that determines the quality; sinful or holy. In the believer there is a dichotomy between the sinful nature, and the Spirit of God (Gal 5:17), and His ongoing opposition to this human nature leads all believers into what the Father does within them, which is in all who are born again (Phl 2:13).

How the nature is, so goes the being! Without the new nature, the Spirit has not that which to work with in us (1 Pet 1:23; 1 John 3:9). In Christ, the human sinful nature is nullified concerning its guilt, and restrained concerning its dominance. "The blood procures pardon from sin and the Cross procures power over sin," through the ongoing crucifixion of "the old man" (Rom 6:6), which restrains it, not eradicates it as some may believe. If this nature was dead, there could be no more sin to deal with! The work of the Lord Jesus and the the Spirit frees the believer to yield to God's work within, which is revealed in our ways without.

That's a more philosophical view when the matter is more simple. It is our spirit that is saved by Christ Jesus, not our flesh bodies for our flesh is assigned to death for all men, regardless of actions derived from their spirit, which is why it is subject to all the pullings, urges of this world and attacks by Satan, who himself has been assigned the power of death (Heb.2:14).

 

[NetChaplain]

It is our spirit that is saved by Christ Jesus, not our flesh bodies

Just to note, God will take our physical bodies from this life and change it into the eternal bodies that will be (Rom 8:11, 23), same as Christ's present heavenly physical-eternal body (Luke 24:39; Philippians 3:21).

 

[NoHype]

Just to note, God will take our physical bodies from this life and change it into the eternal bodies that will be (Rom 8:11, 23), same as Christ's present heavenly physical-eternal body (Phl 3:21).

And that is the "spiritual body" that Apostle Paul taught of in 1 Cor.15, not a flesh body like we have today...


1 Cor 15:21-22
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(KJV)

Since all people born in the flesh are ordained to die once (Heb.9:27), all peoples will be made 'alive' in this sense by Paul, which he goes into further exacting detail below.

1 Cor 15:35-37
35 But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
(KJV)

There Paul gets into the 'how' and what 'kind' of body the dead will be raised with. His idea here of being 'quickened' isn't about a flesh body either, which Paul later shows. Even when a simple grain of seed is sown, it's initial state dies during germination and produces a seed that's from within, and the old seed shell perishes. That's Paul's analogy here about the difference between our spirit inside our flesh, with our spirit making up the "spiritual body" he's going to reveal.


1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

What exactly is that "It" which is sown first as a natural body (flesh), and then raised "a spiritual body"? Paul is speaking 3 separate objects there, not two (i.e., the "It part, the natural body, and then the spiritual body).

That "It" part is about our soul that is joined with our spirit inside our flesh bodies today. The flesh is cast off to reveal that "spiritual body", just as how Paul used the sown agricultural seed example.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Our Lord Jesus is represented by that "last Adam" there. So even within that Paul is talking about Christ's Resurrected Body with that "quickening spirit" idea, showing our Lord Jesus' Body is still not a flesh type body like our's that gets sick, old, and dies. So why would any believer on Him want to hang onto these old flesh bodies that are destined to perish when we have this promise of an eternal body, a "spiritual body", a house not made with hands but a body from God that's eternal in the Heavens? (2 Cor.5).


46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Our first state in this world is with a flesh body, one that perishes through death (or the change on the "last trump" Paul teaches in this Chapter also). Then comes the future state of the "spiritual body", i.e., "that which is spiritual".


47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

There again is Paul's idea of Christ raised as representing the "last Adam" with the "spiritual body" idea. He is revealing a lot more in that single verse than one might think. Afterall, hasn't our Lord from Heaven, Jesus Christ, existed eternally forever, even before His birth by The Holy Spirit through Mary's womb? So what kind of body was our Lord Jesus in before coming in the flesh? Understand that, and apply that to what Paul said there, and you'll be way ahead of how deep Paul is going here on this topic of what kind of body the resurrection is.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The earthy is one thing, or order, but the heavenly is another order. The two states are not of the same order of existence. That's why I often use the idea of different dimensions of existence to get this idea across. There is another dimension of existence, and it is presently behind a veil, hidden from us (unless The LORD chooses to show it to us like He did with His prophets and Apostles).

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
(KJV)

Just to make sure we don't confuse the flesh order with the Heavenly order existence, Paul makes it plain that no flesh and blood shall inherit God's Kingdom. Why? Simply because His future Kingdom is not of the flesh order, yet His Heavenly dimension can, and will manifest here on earth in the future new heavens and a new earth.

Thus worship of our flesh in thinking it can somehow be made to live forever is not a Christian Doctrine from God's Word. Our flesh bodies are only a temporary body for this present world time, and will be cast off to reveal our "spiritual body" when Jesus comes.

 

[NetChaplain]

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

That's what the resurrection is all about, a new body out of the old one, as shown in the post #8 Scripture references. We will not just be spirit only. The natural body we now have is from this life only, which also involves our spirit, and is of this nature, which requires foods and water, and it decays. The spiritual body of the believer also involves an incorruptible body and our spirit, which is an incorruptible body not of this nature (other than the use of the old body to be changed into the new body), and these truths are all consistent with the preceding scriptural references in the prior post.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

"It" (the body) is raised. Our spirit has already been "redeemed", or "raised" in regeneration, that's why we are only waiting for "the redemption of our body" (Rom 8:23).

The resurrection involves only the body, not our spirit, which has already been raised in Christ and is already eternal regardless if saved. The overall concept of "the resurrection" has to do with our spirit being joined to a new body--which is created by taking the old body and "changing" it into the new body.

This is also what is meant by, "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." This is when the believers are in their new bodies, not naturally physical as now, but spiritually physical then, and the damned will be raised in an eternal body on the last or, second resurrection.

Our spirit has already been changed (raised) in regeneration, and will not be anymore altered then from what it is now. We will not be anymore saved then than we are now, concerning us in our spirits. We will just be void of the sinful nature, which is now in the soul of our spirit.

Additional reference: 1 Cor 15:51, 52; 1 Thess 4:16, 17.

NH, I appreciate the correspondence we've been having in the Word of truth and just wanted you to know that everything I share with you is strictly for truth's sake and no other reason, so we can get at the truth, which I'm convinced is the same for you and the others in this thread. I also hope you don't feel like you're being ganged-up on because there are at least two of us in this thread with you, which I also believe is not an intention of anyone, nor that you think this is so. Thanks and God's blessings to your Family!

 

[NoHype]

That's what the resurrection is all about, a new body out of the old one, as shown in the post #8 Scripture references. We will not just be spirit only. The natural body we now have is from this life only, which also involves our spirit, and is of this nature, which requires foods and water, and it decays. The spiritual body of the believer also involves an incorruptible body and our spirit,....

Not quite. For Apostle Paul stressed that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, because neither can corruption inherit incorruption:

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
(KJV)

See there, Apostle Paul made a clear dividing line between flesh ("corruption") and spirit ("incorruption"). Our flesh body is a body of "corruption", of flesh and blood. It cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, period. No more solutions needed, no adding, just that flesh and Spirit are two distinct and separate orders or manifestation.

Our Lord Jesus also said this about the resurrected state:

Matt 22:30
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
(KJV)

Back only around 50 years ago, more in Christ's Church understood this. But man's flesh philosophy has crept in since then. Many today do not realize that already the "spiritual body" with soul is dwelling inside our flesh body (2 Cor.5). When our flesh body dies and goes back to the earthly matter it came from, our spirit continues back to God which includes our soul.

Jesus revealed this too in:

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
(KJV)

The first "body" there is our flesh body. The second "body" there is our "spiritual body" with that soul, for that is what is destroyed for those who perish in the future "lake of fire" event. The Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 reveals this same operation also, it just doesn't mention the 'soul' part that is attached with our spirit which also goes back to God after our flesh body dies and goes back to the earth where it came from.

When our flesh body dies today, our "spiritual body" with soul inside it steps out, the "silver cord" of Ecclesiastes 12 that keeps our flesh and spirit joined while alive in the flesh being severed. This is how Paul meant the idea that the seed that is sown is NOT the body that shall be (1 Cor.15:37).

When Christ returns on the "last trump", those still alive in the flesh on earth will be 'changed' instantly, their flesh bodies cast off to reveal the "spiritual body" with soul. Paul used the expression "at the twinkling of an eye" in 1 Cor.15:51-52 to describe that future event.

"It" (the body) is raised. Our spirit has already been "redeemed", or "raised" in regeneration, that's why we are only waiting for "the redemption of our body" (Rom 8:23).

Our spirit inside our flesh must be born again of The Spirit, yes, that part is correct per our Lord Jesus. But that operation has absolutely nothing to do with our flesh body. The body Paul is referring to in Romans 8:23 is the "spiritual body" that's inside our flesh body. That is what our Lord Jesus is coming to redeem.

The resurrection involves only the body, not our spirit, which has already been raised in Christ and is already eternal regardless if saved. The overall concept of "the resurrection" has to do with our spirit being joined to a new body--which is created by taking the old body and "changing" it into the new body.

That's not what God's Word teaches.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul was going into detail about the kind of body the resurrection is, revealing the "spiritual body" which is different from our flesh body. What you're not understanding when all those above Scripture examples I have shown are put together as a whole, is that those of the resurrection will have the same kind of body as the angels of God in Heaven like Jesus said. Our Lord Jesus said that emphatically to the blind Pharisees who could only understand about a flesh type body, for they were tempting Him with which of the 7 husbands the woman that died would be married to in Heaven, showing they thought the resurrection is a continuation of the flesh order. It is not.

This is also what is meant by, "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." This is when the believers are in their new bodies, not naturally physical as now, but spiritually physical then, and the damned will be raised in an eternal body on the last or, second resurrection.

There is no such thing in the resurrection as a spiritual-flesh body, period. You're confusing the flesh and spirit operation for this present world again with the world to come.

The "dead" of Rev.20:5 is about the idea of being spiritually dead, one's soul still in a 'liable to die' state at the "second death" (casting into the lake of fire). That's the future state of fear by those our Lord Jesus was talking about in the Matthew 10:28 Scripture, i.e., don't fear those who can only kill your flesh body and not your soul, but fear Him Who can cast spiritual body and soul into the lake of fire (meaning of "hell" there with the Valley of Hinnom symbol). The "second death" of Rev.20 in the "lake of fire" has nothing to do with death of a flesh body. You won't find that kind of reference there at all.

The meaning 'to live' in that time is about the state of the "first resurrection", i.e., not subject to the "second death". It's because some of those Rev.20:5 dead (spiritually dead souls) will come to Christ Jesus during His thousand years reign and then be joined with those who 'live' of the first resurrection at the very end. That's why the books are opened at the end of the thousand years, to see if any names of those spiritually dead are written in the Book of Life. That judging isn't for those of the "first resurrection", because those will already have put on immortality and not subject to the "second death", as written.

Apostle Paul covered this little detail in 1 Cor.15 with 4 separate Greek words that have different meanings.

1 Cor 15:53
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(KJV)

Do you see that "and" there in between those four words? That means 2 different changes must occur, not just one.

"corruptible" = Greek phthartos - 'perishable' = flesh body
"incorruption" = Greek aphthrsia - 'unending existence' = the "spiritual body", an eternal body
AND
"mortal" = Greek thnetos - 'liable to die' = the "It" part, the soul, renewed by Christ
"immortality" = Greek athanasia - 'deathlessness' = to live forever, eternality

The Two Different Resurrection Conditions Per John 5:28-29 Set to Occur at Christ's Return:

"resurrection of life" = those who put on both a body of "incorruption" AND "immortality" (Christ's elect that will reign with Him).

"resurrection of damnation" = those who only put on a body of "incorruption" only, their soul still is 'liable to die'. (the Rev.20:5 "dead" who live not again until the thousand years is over, i.e., the "goats" separated on the left hand).

Thus even the wicked are going to be in their "spiritual body" during Christ's future thousand years reign also; but their "mortal" part, their soul, will still be in a 'liable to die' condition, still able to perish at the "second death" later.

This reveals what the "spiritual body" actually is. It is a heavenly type body in order to manifest in that future world to come, for the wicked dead are resurrected also at Christ's coming per John 5:28-29, and will exist as the nations outside the holy city on earth where Christ and His elect will reign with a rod of iron over them (Rev.20:7-11; Rev.22:14-15). Resurrection is not synonymous with flesh. Our Lord's flesh body was transfigured to that future state, and kept the marks of His crucifixion as a remembrance of what He did for us in defeating death and the devil.

Does our "spiritual body" inside us have attributes of how our flesh body operates? Yes! It can eat earthly food, walk upon this earth, live upon this earth, all the while being of a different dimension than the earth. But it is still not a flesh body, and God's Word shows how we are to keep the two operations separate.

 

[B-A-C]

What is your definition of "the Law?" If you mean the TC'S (Law of Moses), only the Hebrew/Jew had to die to it, which is what occurs at rebirth

Does this mean only Jews need to be born again?

1. The first time the 10 commandments were read after the Jews entered into the promised land, it was read to the Gentiles as well. In fact they were told to sit in a certain place while they were being read.

Josh 8:32; And as the Israelites watched, Joshua copied onto the stones of the altar the instructions Moses had given them.
Josh 8:33; Then all the Israelites—foreigners and native-born alike—along with the elders, officers, and judges, were divided into two groups. One group stood in front of Mount Gerizim, the other in front of Mount Ebal. Each group faced the other, and between them stood the Levitical priests carrying the Ark of the LORD's Covenant. This was all done according to the commands that Moses, the servant of the LORD, had previously given for blessing the people of Israel.
Josh 8:34; Joshua then read to them all the blessings and curses Moses had written in the Book of Instruction.
Josh 8:35; Every word of every command that Moses had ever given was read to the entire assembly of Israel, including the women and children and the foreigners who lived among them.

Eccl 12:13; The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.

This applies to EVERY person, not just the Jews.

The book of Romans was written to who? Romans!! (They are Gentiles) It was written by Paul, who was the apostle of the Gentiles.

Rom 1:6; And you are included among those Gentiles who have been called to belong to Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:7; I am writing to all of you in Rome who are loved by God and are called to be His own holy people. May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.

Rom 2:11; For God does not show favoritism.
Rom 2:12; When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God's written law. And the Jews, who do have God's law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
Rom 2:13; For merely listening to the law doesn't make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in His sight.
Rom 2:14; Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know His law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.

Rom 13:8; Owe nothing to anyone—except for your obligation to love one another. If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God's law.
Rom 13:9; For the commandments say, "You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not covet." These—and other such commandments—are summed up in this one commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Rom 13:10; Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God's law.

Why would Paul tell Gentiles they need to fulfill the requirements of the commandments?

Rom 2:27; In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God's law but don't obey it.

The Corinthians were Gentiles as well.

1 Cor 7:19; For it makes no difference whether or not a man has been circumcised. The important thing is to keep God's commandments.

The commandments and the law are two different things.
The Galations were also Gentiles.

Gal 5:3; I'll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses.

Joshua, Solomon and Paul (in almost every letter he wrote) knew the Gentiles were accountable to the commandments of the OT just as much as the Jews were.

To say that Gentiles were never obligated to keep these, is just plain false doctrine.

 

[NetChaplain]

Does this mean only Jews need to be born again?

I believe the Gentile had to die to the law of sin incurred by Adam, and the Jew to the law of sin, and the Mosaic Law, which of of-course has nothing to do with regeneration, but it pointed to regeneration (Christ). I believe even the Jew has no Law presently.

 

[NetChaplain]

Not quite. For Apostle Paul stressed that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, because neither can corruption inherit incorruption:

By the phrase "flesh and blood," inference must be admitted concerning attention to the type of flesh and blood, which in this passage (1 Cor 15:50) is corruptible and decays, from this life of nature; unlike the incorruptible flesh and blood of Christ's resurrected body, which cannot be conflated with Luke 24:39.

 

[NoHype]

By the phrase "flesh and blood," inference must be admitted concerning attention to the type of flesh and blood, which in this passage (1 Cor 15:50) is corruptible and decays, from this life of nature; unlike the incorruptible flesh and blood of Christ's resurrected body, which cannot be conflated with Luke 24:39.

I have no problem understanding that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit (John 3:6). And that includes with looking at the sole Luke 24:39 example.

Our Lord Jesus existed prior to His being born in the flesh through Mary's womb. So what 'kind' of body did He have before? Not one of flesh, but of Spirit, for God is a Spirit (John 4:24).

 

[B-A-C]

I believe the Gentile had to die to the law of sin incurred by Adam, and the Jew to the law of sin, and the Mosaic Law, which of of-course has nothing to do with regeneration, but it pointed to regeneration (Christ). I believe even the Jew has no Law presently.

If there is no law for anyone (Jews or Gentiles) anymore, does that mean no one can sin anymore?
Are you a universalist that believes everyone is saved whether they know it or not?

 

[NetChaplain]

Our Lord Jesus existed prior to His being born in the flesh through Mary's womb. So what 'kind' of body did He have before? Not one of flesh, but of Spirit, for God is a Spirit (John 4:24).

True, and a significant point. Jesus is the only One in heaven with a physical body, and it is a proof to show us how much He is relating to us in oneness.

 

[NoHype]

This thread is now getting real weird, like the Twilight Zone. Flesh is of flesh, spirit is of Spirit (from God). This is why Christ's Resurrected Body was 'transfigured' to the heavenly order body.

 

[NetChaplain]

If there is no law for anyone (Jews or Gentiles) anymore, does that mean no one can sin anymore?
Are you a universalist that believes everyone is saved whether they know it or not?

Only those who desire to sin are under law. There is no law required for the believer, since he does not desire to sin he does not need to be told not to sin. This is the meaning of, "against such there is no law" (Gal 5:23). Though the believer still sins, it is unwillingly, which is the point, unlike the unsaved which sin willingly (Num 15:24). There was no forgiveness for sinning "presumptuously" (v 30). This also concurs with Hebrews 10:26. The issue is that which is a matter of the heart, which is due to regeneration of the Spirit. Sinning in accordance with your will (not captive), or against your will as in Romans 7 (captive).

 

[NoHype]

Only those who desire to sin are under law. There is no law required for the believer, since he does not desire to sin he does not need to be told not to sin. This is the meaning of, "against such there is no law" (Gal 5:23). Though the believer still sins, it is unwillingly, which is the point, unlike the unsaved which sin willingly (Num 15:24). There was no forgiveness for sinning "presumptuously" (v 30). This also concurs with Hebrews 10:26. The issue is that which is a matter of the heart, which is due to regeneration of the Spirit. Sinning in accordance with your will (not captive), or against your will as in Romans 7 (captive).

Only those who "desire"... to sin are under law?

If that were true then it would make even the unbeliever a little Christ unto themselves!

Like I said, this thread is getting real weird.