4 Horseman judgments

[Jonathan_Gale]

I quoted scripture . I always quote scripture . But who pays attention without the verses being posted

When the 12 tribes are being sealed, the global church is already gone and in heaven with God (Rev. 11:9. 11:14, 12:12), those are God's people of every tribe, tongue and nation. If anyone who's "circumcised in the heart" were qualified as a Jew, then why not just say 144,000 sealed? Why specifically call out 12,000 from each tribe? The word "church", ecclasia, means congregation or assembly instead of an organization with membership. It started with the Jews in the wilderness, and it will end with the Jews when they finally believe.

 

[Bill]

When the 12 tribes are being sealed, the global church is already gone and in heaven with God (Rev. 11:9. 11:14, 12:12), those are God's people of every tribe, tongue and nation. If anyone who's "circumcised in the heart" were qualified as a Jew, then why not just say 144,000 sealed? Why specifically call out 12,000 from each tribe? The word "church", ecclasia, means congregation or assembly instead of an organization with membership. It started with the Jews in the wilderness, and it will end with the Jews when they finally believe.

Who said the global church will be in heaven. Before the tribulation.

The scripture states that all who suffered, who died in the tribulation

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Who said the global church will be in heaven. Before the tribulation.

The scripture states that all who suffered, who died in the tribulation

That depends on your definition of the word "tribulation". There are many trials and tribulations that every Christian will experience, but the GREAT tribulation is only the 7 trumpets/7 bowls judgement, which is after the 7 seals judgement. War, famine, earthquake and other disasters are not the end - yet. (Matt. 24:6)

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

The dead in Christ rise first, per the words of God, and that does not happen until the last day, per the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The dead in Christ rise first, per the words of God, and that does not happen until the last day, per the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

To be honest, it really doesn't matter when exactly will the Lord return, because when an individual drops dead, that's the same as Lord's second coming, because his soul will come to the Lord. He'll meet the Lord face to face and receive either the reward or judgement he deserves. Both the righteous and the wicked will be raised, as you've pointed out. The righteous will inherit the millennial kingdom, the wicked stay dead until the end of the millennial kingdom (Rev. 20:5), and then they'll be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20:15).

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

To be honest, it really doesn't matter when exactly will the Lord return, because when an individual drops dead, that's the same as Lord's second coming, because his soul will come to the Lord. He'll meet the Lord face to face and receive either the reward or judgement he deserves.

But again that reward or judgment does not happen until the last day.

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

But again that reward or judgment does not happen until the last day.

The fate is sealed at that point, the end result will be the same.

 

[Bill]

That depends on your definition of the word "tribulation". There are many trials and tribulations that every Christian will experience, but the GREAT tribulation is only the 7 trumpets/7 bowls judgement, which is after the 7 seals judgement. War, famine, earthquake and other disasters are not the end - yet. (Matt. 24:6)

You might like to know that there are some things that overlap each other. They won't come like Domino's where one happens and then the next.

Even during The second third and fourth seal they will happen and the war that is talked about isn't War like World War II it's the terrorism like Isis and others and that will eventually spread across the globe.

But the great day of the Lord is a defining moment it is the Sixth Seal that breaks. It is at that moment every man woman and child will know exactly where they stand with God

 

[Bill]

To be honest, it really doesn't matter when exactly will the Lord return, because when an individual drops dead, that's the same as Lord's second coming, because his soul will come to the Lord. He'll meet the Lord face to face and receive either the reward or judgement he deserves. Both the righteous and the wicked will be raised, as you've pointed out. The righteous will inherit the millennial kingdom, the wicked stay dead until the end of the millennial kingdom (Rev. 20:5), and then they'll be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20:15).

Not necessarily. The scripture tells us that there is Judgment in heaven it is an appointed moment and it also says that we will all be witness to it.

It is written in Hebrews that your Deeds will come into account. If you have shown charity throughout your life it will be a plus if you have not shown charity and yet claim to be a Christian you will be in more Danger of going to hell than a person who was not a Christian and did not show charity. For those who claim to be the Sons and Daughters of God they know better.

Does anyone have the charity now in this day and age in the Christian culture that we live do you have the charity to give someone who does not deserve Heaven your place in heaven. This is an example of true charity and true faith in God let us hope we all can reach to that point

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You might like to know that there are some things that overlap each other. They won't come like Domino's where one happens and then the next.

Even during The second third and fourth seal they will happen and the war that is talked about isn't War like World War II it's the terrorism like Isis and others and that will eventually spread across the globe.

But the great day of the Lord is a defining moment it is the Sixth Seal that breaks. It is at that moment every man woman and child will know exactly where they stand with God

There's definitely a chronological sequence, the 7 seals precede the 7 trumpets/7 bowls. Whether the 7 trumpets and the 7 bowls are the same or different, that is debatable, I believe they are the same described from different perspectives, but the 7seals definitely come before that, since the 7th seal is called the PRELUDE to the trumpet judgement.

 

[Bill]

There's definitely a chronological sequence, the 7 seals precede the 7 trumpets/7 bowls. Whether the 7 trumpets and the 7 bowls are the same or different, that is debatable, I believe they are the same described from different perspectives, but the 7seals definitely come before that, since the 7th seal is called the PRELUDE to the trumpet judgement.

Some of the seals have already been broken and you haven't even noticed it. How will you know then the sequence of events when you can't even tell when they happen

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Next seal to be broken is the 6th.

 

[Bill]

Next seal to be broken is the 6th.

It's certainly coming. And sooner than what most people expect.

You know even in the scripture it pretty well says that people won't even know of the other five until the 6th one breaks. The very last line in the breaking of the seal says run and hide for the great day of the Lord is here

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Some of the seals have already been broken and you haven't even noticed it. How will you know then the sequence of events when you can't even tell when they happen

War, famine, earthquake and persecution are called “birth pangs”, a pregnant woman feels the kick occasionally, that ends up as a false alarm, nothing serious happens. However, the closer she is to delivery, the more frequent and intense are these birth pangs.

 

[Bill]

War, famine, earthquake and persecution are called “birth pangs”, a pregnant woman feels the kick occasionally, that ends up as a false alarm, nothing serious happens. However, the closer she is to delivery, the more frequent and intense are these birth pangs.

Yeah everyone will say the same thing all the way up to the Sixth Seal as it shows in Scripture

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Yeah everyone will say the same thing all the way up to the Sixth Seal as it shows in Scripture

At that point we'll be already dead and in heaven worshiping the Lord, otherwise any survivor would either be marked by the Beast or sealed by God. There won't be any middle ground.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

At that point we'll be already dead and in heaven worshiping the Lord, otherwise any survivor would either be marked by the Beast or sealed by God. There won't be any middle ground.

People are already marked by sin (mark of the man/beast) or sealed by God’s Spirit right now.

We are servants to whom we obey, and we are marked according to whom we serve.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

People are already marked by sin (mark of the man/beast) or sealed by God’s Spirit right now.

We are servants to whom we obey, and we are marked according to whom we serve.

Isn’t that a fatalistic view? What is it called, Calvinism? That’s not true. Until the end times, sinners always have a chance to repent.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

That’s not true. Until the end times, sinners always have a chance to repent.

There is only one way to get victory over the mark of sin, and that is by faith in Jesus Christ and by being born again of the Holy Spirit, which is the God’s mark, or seal.

Revelation 15:2
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

There is only one way to get victory over the mark of sin, and that is by faith in Jesus Christ and by being born again of the Holy Spirit, which is the God’s mark, or seal.

Revelation 15:2
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

That's NOT something you can overcome. Once you take that mark, there won't be any turning back. The wrath of God is specifically reserved for all who have received that mark (Rev. 16:2). The saints who don't take the mark are beheaded and reigning with Christ, (Rev. 20:4). Essentially this mark is a counterfeit of the Seal, originally from the Torah (Deut. 6:8). There're already models of that, such as the QR codes or vaccine passport, soon it could become something kind of an implant, and every nation on earth would be on board for that.