A Simple Question

[Admon Mikha'el]

Only if we were in an early church started by Paul and the disciples!

We are accountable for what God has revealed to us and are to live with a good conscience before Him Acts 23:1. Following church doctrine that you completely disagree on is a big no no between you and God!

Having said that, one important doctrine from Paul is to not neglect the gathering of ourselves Heb 10:25. Many use minor disagreements as an excuse to be lazy and not fellowship!

Kingj Please define "gathering of ourselves" Heb 10:25, keeping in mind that For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matthew 18:20

 

[Rhema]

What church might that be that has been functioning longer than mine, and what date do you put to "my church"? Which in truth I consider Jesus' Church.

The oldest would be The Church of the East (aka the Thomas Christians), followed by the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church and then the Roman Catholic Church that "protested" against the Orthodox during the Great Schism of 1054.

But unless I am woefully mistaken, the beliefs you embrace were initially formed by Martin Luther in the early 1,500's, and then spread through various changes and revisions and updates over the centuries as Denominations formed and dissolved and merged and were restructured by innumerable men.

Would man look at it as simple as that.

Jesus did.

Ponder with me. Those who repented and were baptized into the remission (forgiveness) of sin by John the Baptizer, did these go to hell? All of them? (cf. Acts 19:1-7)

And the three thousand on the day of Pentecost? Did they go to hell for embracing that which Peter told them to do?

Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."​

(Acts 2:37-39 NKJV)

Three simple verses explain the whole thing. Neither your article nor the article I posted is necessary. It's just noise that drowns out the True Gospel - to wit....

Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;​

(Acts 13:38 NKJV)

Through Jesus, not Moses.
Through Jesus, not Abraham.
Through Jesus, not the TORAH of Levi.

Would man look at it as simple as that.

If you mean would man foul the whole thing up and make it insanely complicated offering the blood of a human sacrifice to God as payment? (cf. The Aztecs.)

Oh YES. (BIG TIME, in all the major branches of Christianity.)

But the simplicity is for all to hear: (which is found in our first Axiom)

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,​

(Mark 1:14 NKJV)

If Jesus came preaching the Gospel, then the Gospel is what Jesus preached.​

(Axiom 1)

And Jesus commanded everyone to pray to the Father for the Forgiveness of Sin (cf. Mat. 6:12). Was his teaching worthless? Was his teaching insufficient? Can we not have Faith on Jesus alone?

So tell me, friend, and I ask in all sincerity, How can someone not be saved if their sins are forgiven?

Your brother (somewhere in all of this),
Rhema

 

[Christ4Ever]

The oldest would be The Church of the East (aka the Thomas Christians), followed by the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church and then the Roman Catholic Church that "protested" against the Orthodox during the Great Schism of 1054.

But unless I am woefully mistaken, the beliefs you embrace were initially formed by Martin Luther in the early 1,500's, and then spread through various changes and revisions and updates over the centuries as Denominations formed and dissolved and merged and were restructured by innumerable men.

When did Jesus become the Head of the Church, and began adding to it?

Take your mind outside of denominationalism. Then you will find/know the church of which I speak, belong to, along with Brethren, who know and are yet unaware of that they to belong to. There is great joy in this brother!

Would man look at it as simple as that.

Jesus did.

Do you think it was Him that I was talking about who cannot?

Ponder with me.

Not at the moment.

But I can't for the life of me understand how someone whose sins are forgiven isn't saved.

Rhema

Would man look at it as simple as that.

So tell me, friend, and I ask in all sincerity, How can someone not be saved if their sins are forgiven?

I would hope that your asking is sincere.
Which is why I answered as I did above the first time and ask you this question.
Do you see the difference between Salvation & Eternal Life and can you have one without the other?
I do believe you will find your answer to your question there.

With the Love of Christ Jesus. Tenderly.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rhema]

Take your mind outside of denominationalism.

Put your mind into history, and stop fighting against the goads.

You think you've been perfected enough to implement a scorched earth policy to strip all your own doctrinal denominational noise away and find the rudimentary, fundamental, and pure Gospel that Jesus taught? Refined enough to be Gold? I am not even IN "demoninationalism."

Since you keep and continually keep from addressing this very core topic, you are either scared to opine or just don't know.

So tell me, friend, and I ask in all sincerity, How can someone not be saved if their sins are forgiven?​

​

I do believe you will find your answer to your question there.

How wonderfully and absolutely useless.

Ponder with me.

Not at the moment

Obtusely Useless.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Do you see the difference between Salvation & Eternal Life and can you have one without the other?

"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."​

(Matthew 25:41-46 NKJV)

So Jesus answered and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's (JESUS' GOSPEL), who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first."​

(Mark 10:29-31 NKJV)

Rhema

 

[Christ4Ever]

Put your mind into history, and stop fighting against the goads.

You think you've been perfected enough to implement a scorched earth policy to strip all your own doctrinal denominational noise away and find the rudimentary, fundamental, and pure Gospel that Jesus taught? Refined enough to be Gold? I am not even IN "demoninationalism."

Since you keep and continually keep from addressing this very core topic, you are either scared to opine or just don't know.

So tell me, friend, and I ask in all sincerity, How can someone not be saved if their sins are forgiven?​

​

How wonderfully and absolutely useless.




Obtusely Useless.

Rhema

You'd have done better just not answering.
Nick

 

[KingJ]

Kingj Please define "gathering of ourselves" Heb 10:25, keeping in mind that For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matthew 18:20

Your example will count. But I think it is rather obvious that Paul is referring to more than that when he and the disciples started large church type gatherings, had communal proceedings and taught on the five fold ministry in Eph 4.

 

[Rhema]

You'd have done better just not answering.
Nick

(Sigh...)

How have I offended you now?

 

[Christ4Ever]

(Sigh...)

How have I offended you now?

lol
Were you?

 

[Rhema]

lol
Were you?

One cannot tell if you are playing head games or not.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Your example will count. But I think it is rather obvious that Paul is referring to more than that when he and the disciples started large church type gatherings, had communal proceedings and taught on the five fold ministry in Eph 4.

Uh huh....and what constitutes "communal"? One hundred? Five hundred? Two? Communal means "used or shared in common by everyone in a group" Two or three is a group, a commun-ity

 

[Christ4Ever]

One cannot tell if you are playing head games or not.

No. Not at all. (I wanted to put a smiling emoji here, but considering the comment above, I thought better of it.)
I told you at least once before that I have a joy of the Lord, and I in earnest try to allow no one to take that joy away from me, regardless of the discussion at hand. Particularly when it involves a discussion between myself and a fellow believer in Christ Jesus.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rhema]

Uh huh....and what constitutes "communal"? One hundred? Five hundred? Two? Communal means "used or shared in common by everyone in a group" Two or three is a group, a commun-ity

Jerusalem had to deal with three thousand all at once.
Day one on Pentecost.

Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.​

(Acts 2:41 NKJV)

(And Paul had nothing to do with it. )

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I told you at least once before that I have a joy of the Lord, and I in earnest try to allow no one to take that joy away from me, regardless of the discussion at hand. Particularly when it involves a discussion between myself and a fellow believer in Christ Jesus.

(Oh boy...)

As if my intent is to take away your joy.

 

[KingJ]

Uh huh....and what constitutes "communal"? One hundred? Five hundred? Two? Communal means "used or shared in common by everyone in a group" Two or three is a group, a commun-ity

God spreads His children like salt on the earth. God has a shortage of workers. A Church usually has 1-3 true well respect Christians running it. God will send people to their 'gatherings'. Usually a lot of people! A church also needs to have members that can truly be able to fulfill the five fold ministry mentioned in Eph 4. Something completely impossible with a small gathering. Which makes your idea of church apples and oranges with Paul's idea of church. You are thinking of something like a prayer meeting, not a church meeting. A church needs to have open communion (not 'commune') bible study, evangelical meetings, open ministry. There needs to be elders that can correct members who are out of line.

Also consider the fact that a good pastor is one in ten thousand!

At a small gathering is that you can have someone who is a creep who thinks he is anointed to be a pastor because he has a nice house that can host meetings. No qualified elders to correct him or her. Imagine a father sending his daughter to such a 'church' meeting.

1 Tim 3:1-7

Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

 

[Christ4Ever]

(Oh boy...)

As if my intent is to take away your joy.

Only you know what you want to communicate, and I can only tell you what you do.
The example of that is the same for what I wrote below (underlined).

No. Not at all. (I wanted to put a smiling emoji here, but considering the comment above, I thought better of it.)

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rhema]

Only you know what you want to communicate, and I can only tell you what you do.

I often think that you and I don't speak the same dialect.
But if you expect evil intent, that's what you'll see.

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[AntonGoldnagel]

Just a simple question....Would you rather follow your churches doctrines or the Bible? I've gotten some interesting answers to this question.

Church doctrine are from men, otherwise they would be called Bible Doctrines.
1 Tim 6:3 If any man teacheth a different doctrine, and consenteth not to sound words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
We should ONLY follow Bible Doctrines.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I often think that you and I don't speak the same dialect.
But if you expect evil intent, that's what you'll see.

Blessings,
Rhema

Quite possible on the dialect.

I don't expect evil intent, but I don't discount it either brother though it is not at the front of my thoughts.

The intention to honor and speak the truth about a subject does not ensure that the words used will be understood or received as intended.

Just tossing this thought out there. Is it possible that the issue then becomes not the communicator or receiver, but rather a culmination of other factors, beyond the control of both at the present moment of time? Given additional time, they may reach a place of deeper understanding, where the yet-to-be-discovered factors have a diminished impact on their communication with one another.

Well, off to pick up someone to take to church.
God bless and have a wonderful day in the Lord!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[KingJ]

Church doctrine are from men, otherwise they would be called Bible Doctrines.
1 Tim 6:3 If any man teacheth a different doctrine, and consenteth not to sound words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
We should ONLY follow Bible Doctrines.

There is church doctrine in the bible.