Alcohol

[stephen]

I was in my forties before I ever tasted wine or such. I was 26 years old when I married. Way back now.

We went on the Continent for holiday's. The Mediterranean countries, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc. I recall looking at fella's sitting in front of a huge glasses of lager, maybe a litre. It was blazing hot. I used to think however do they manage to drink all of that. My wife and I would have a coffee and a piece of cake.

When we returned home my wife would ring the Company to say that I was unable to be there because I was in bed sick with gastroenteritis. (stomach problems)

I recall preaching in France. We sat down to eat and the drink was wine. What do you do in the company of fellow gospel ministers? I had a glass of wine. Wine is the 'tea' of France!

This was a release for me.

The next time we were far from home.......I drank the local beverage. I have to say, "I" because my wife has never indulged, saying all such tastes like medicine.

 

[ax d-slayer]

Thanx Brother Chad for the thread i will try to tell others about this....God Bless

 

[Lady Jane]

Alcohol has never done anything positive in my life so I dont see why people are willing to risk it. It doesnt even taste good the first time you drink it so why carry on to aquire the taste?!
I dont know if I agree with the last post or not, its given me something to think about though.
I don't think alcohol is wrong...it has medicinal uses and Jesus did turn water into wine after all. But the bible says nothing of other alcohol...just wine so should other alcohol fit into the same category?
Very often satan uses alcohol for evil and to bring the downfall of many good people. What are the advantages of alcohol? I'm sceptical that there are any! So if it's not helping you to grow sprirtually or intellectually (it actually-with abuse-makes you dumber) it's a waste of precious time, money. It's like playing russian roulett: will I becme alcoholic or not? let's take a chance....dumb
Well, thats my opinion.

sorry i meant that I dont agree with fellowservants last post

 

[Coconut]

Mat 11:15 "He who has ears, let him give ear.

But what comparison may I make of this generation?

It is like children seated in the market-places, crying out to one another:

"We made music for you and you did not take part in the dance; we gave cries of sorrow and you made no signs of grief."

For John came, taking no food or drink, and they say, "He has an evil spirit."

The Son of man has come feasting, and they say, "See, a lover of food and wine, a friend of tax-farmers and sinners!"

And wisdom is judged to be right by her works."

Then Jesus went on to say hard things...

 

[Fellowservant]

Alcohol has never done anything positive in my life so I dont see why people are willing to risk it. It doesnt even taste good the first time you drink it so why carry on to aquire the taste?!
I dont know if I agree with the last post or not, its given me something to think about though.
I don't think alcohol is wrong...it has medicinal uses and Jesus did turn water into wine after all. But the bible says nothing of other alcohol...just wine so should other alcohol fit into the same category?
Very often satan uses alcohol for evil and to bring the downfall of many good people. What are the advantages of alcohol? I'm sceptical that there are any! So if it's not helping you to grow sprirtually or intellectually (it actually-with abuse-makes you dumber) it's a waste of precious time, money. It's like playing russian roulett: will I becme alcoholic or not? let's take a chance....dumb
Well, thats my opinion.

sorry i meant that I dont agree with fellowservants last post

Jesus drank and he was no dummy...

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

I know this can get out of hand, but so can eating like a pig. One of the fruits of the spirit is self control, if we don't have this then i would question if one had the spirit.

I used scripture in my post, not just ideas of the top of my head, this is how cults are formed. And yes alcohol can be dangerous.. But we have to be carefull not to offend one another, so ill use this scripture for your conscience. But don't let it become defiled with commandments of men. Or make it to weaker than it should be, myself included. How can we judge angels as Paul said, if we can't judge men?

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

And this is not my opinion its the word of God to Paul.


God bless you sister:star:

 

[tooth and nail]

Yeah, Jesus turned water into wine at that wedding, so I guess it's okay to drink for special occasions, at least.

Saying that, I rarely drink. I drank quite a bit before I had children, I just got out of the habit I guess. It's probably a better thing to underdo than overindulge. Moderation again.

 

[Lady Jane]

Alright...I see what you're saying. And I understand, I hope you understand my side as well but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one

May God bless you mightily brother

 

[Fellowservant]

Too tell you the truth i would'nt recommend alcohol to at least 95% of the christian community. This takes faith and self control, and no you can't defile the temple of the holy ghost by eating and drinking. You can defile your conscience, but not the temple.

Nothing that goes in a man can defile him, it is what comes out of a mans heart, thats what defiles him. If you could defile the temple of the holy ghost with a few drinks of alcohol, then Christ defiled himself, and so did his followers, they drank too. So did the early church.

As i said they used it for pain and special occasions at that time, today we fear it because we are told mostly that its wrong. And it can take over if your not grounded in Christ. So be carefull with any thing that can take control over you, right down to to much entertainment. God is a jealous God, i hope we know this.

God bless:star:

 

[Maureen]

Proverbs 20 V 1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

'Nothing that goes in a man can defile him' quoting this from your post Fellowservant,
so you mean to say that you can watch a sorid movie and it won't devile your mind, I'm afraid I disagree, what goes in...comes out,

1Corinthians V 17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

if the Temple of God could not be defiled why does it say above 'if any man defile the temple of God. ?

I think the word of God above really says it for itself.

 

[Fellowservant]

So Jesus Christ the lord of Glory defiled himself by drinking responsibly? Thats a judgement call on Christ, if he did drink, and i know for a fact that he did. So did his deciples... Wine is a mocker, but not if its is drank responsibly. And i know men who are mockers without wine, the bible says they would come.

And if you want to use old testament scriptures on wine as being evil or something that defiles, use this one as well.

Pro 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Pro 31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Pro 31:8 Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction.
Pro 31:9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

When you judge use righteous judgement.

Jesus according to scripture was sinless, so wine did not defile him.

To the pure all things are pure, even wine.

God bless

 

[Chad]

I agree brother fellowservant. Like anything else, there are somethings that need moderation (alcohol, food, even exercising) while others need to be refrained of for good (drugs).

If a man witnesses a nude woman at the beach but does not lust, is he automatically "defiled"? Absolutely not! Its the output of his heart, which is his will and motives that can defile him.

If a man inhaled second hand smoke somewhere in public, is he automatically defiled? No. Of course, its not healthy but he is not defiled. If he purposely smokes cigarettes for example, then he has defiled himself.

 

[Fellowservant]

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Also read that passage above in its context, Paul is talking about our works. Therefore we can defile the temple by our works, Wine is not mentioned.

God bless

 

[Fellowservant]

Let me get this judgement thing about food and drink out in the open, read the scriptures concerning this below, or you will be judgeing men unfairly and realy defileing the temple by your works.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ [is] acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

Now read this and try to understand it, or you will become a judge of your brother, or a stumbling block to your brother. Both are sin...

God bless

 

[Maureen]

I would not DARE to say that Christ defiled himself
please don't insinuate that I would that's an impossiblity.
I am only quoting Proverb 20 V1 not my words, God's.

He is the Lord of Lord's and the King of King's, can do no wrong
is perfect, spotless, sinless, He cannot make a mistake.

'Wine is a mocker, but not if its is drank responsibly' to quote your post.
now you are making up your own interpretation here for this proverb.
does it really say 'but not if it's drank responsibly'?
No, I don't read that in the word of God.

Know what, we'll just agree to disagree here.
think that'd be best.

We each have a personal relationship with Jesus our Lord, and it is not
for one to tell another who does what and what you don't do.

What's right for one person may not be for another and no-one
can say differant.

The Holy Spirit will keep each of us in check, and on the narrow path.
If we listen to him we cannot go wrong.
I have no problem with anyone if they want to drink,
that's their choice, I choose not to, that's my choice.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

The scripture Fellow Servant quoted refers only to unclean food (ritual uncleanliness). Jesus was showing them the difference between ritual uncleanliness and spiritual uncleanliness; that food and drink by themselves cannot make one spiritually unclean. (See Mk 7:18-23)

SLE

 

[JA0522]

Very good points

I think this like allot of thing we face as Christians, it all boils down to " If your eye makes you sin pluck it out". So if you know that if you drink it makes you act foolish, sin, and do things unbecoming as a christian don't drink. I know allot people think that Jesus drank wine at the last supper and all but I strongly doubt it. I do not think that God on earth would ingest something that would alter his state of mind, I believe it to be new wine.
Thanks for the scripture references, you definitely do a great research when you make a point Chad.
Jared

 

[Maureen]

Know what, it's between me and God,
same as it's between you and God.

He is the judge over all, and when he comes back
that's just who he's coming back as.

So what we do is our OWN responsiblity,
we will answer for it ourselves.

As for me I will listen to the Holy Spirit at all times, then I
can't go wrong. His prompting is always on time.

I have to say I think what Jared says about Jesus and wine
rings true to me also.

Romans 14 V 17
For the Kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness,
and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Maureen: Do you use a study Bible? If not, I suggest you get one and make use of the study notes.

Where Proverbs 20:1 is concerned, the study notes for that verse in my Bible say that the verse refers only to those who overindulge; who drink to excess. It has nothing to do with moderate consumption.

SLE

 

[Chad]

I'm in agreement with brother SLE. A study bible is more useful and leaves us with proper resources guided by the Holy Spirit, instead of assuming or guessing what Scripture *might* be telling us. Somethings are easy to understand, while other passages require more in depth studying.

 

[sunshine307]

Maureen: Do you use a study Bible? If not, I suggest you get one and make use of the study notes.

Where Proverbs 20:1 is concerned, the study notes for that verse in my Bible say that the verse refers only to those who overindulge; who drink to excess. It has nothing to do with moderate consumption.

SLE

I'm in agreement with brother SLE. A study bible is more useful and leaves us with proper resources guided by the Holy Spirit, instead of assuming or guessing what Scripture *might* be telling us. Somethings are easy to understand, while other passages require more in depth studying.(Chad)

With all due respect brothers, Maureen is correct in listening to the Holy Spirit who abides within her. Chad, Maureen did say she is listening to the Holy Spirit, not assuming what Scripture *might* say.

As for me I will listen to the Holy Spirit at all times, then I can't go wrong. His prompting is always on time. (Maureen)

Maureen, a word of encouragement for you - keep on listening to the Holy Spirit within you. He will guide you in all things. John 14:16, 17 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."