Bendito
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This person sounds like he/she is totally deceived but it's still wrong to name names....The bible says "Don't" Instead, pray for them, and the people they preach to.
Am I permtited to expose heretics in this forum?
- Thread starter Alan McDougall
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- apostasy charlatans frauds hretics
KingJ
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You have to be so careful. There is so much warnings and scripture to consider that could be to your / our detriment. It is best to just leave it the Lord.
If it is a church preacher, you just find another church, simple. Unless of course the person in question is corrected by qualified elders.
Psalm 105:15 "Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm." You don't want to be in opposition to God's work. It is so easy to think you are right and others are heretics. Anything not of God will fail. It is inevitable Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
All we should do is quote this verse to them Matt 18:6 If anyone causes one of these little ones those who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Mature Christians are not easily stumbled. Our foundation / seed and growth with Jesus is strong. It is the little ones that are at risk. Sometimes that ignorant false teacher is '''also''' a ''little one''. Remember that.
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Greetings @Alan McDougall
I have just seen this thread and skimmed through it, thinking at first you were referring to a member of Talk Jesus but then realising this isnt the case.
As you can see using the words exposing a heretic causes quite a heated discussion.
And even with our dear brother @Christ4Ever 's sound post of advice the thread is getting hotter and hotter.
Perhaps consider opening a thread to discuss this persons teaching in light and truth of scripture.
The entrance of Thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Psalm 119:130
If needed then let us be moved to prayer for those who are being deceived
And for the deceiver who is a puppet for satan, themselves a lost soul
Closed temporarily for moderation (@Christ4Ever)
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Hello BodyAndBlood, @Bendito and anyone else who was notified of this thread by me.
Apologies ahead of time. I was using a general notification to the Moderating Team that seems to have gone out to everyone!!!!! Yikes! My bad.
I'll have to let Administrator @Chad know about this.
I beg everyone's forgiveness for this unintended confusion caused by my mistake.
Thanks.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
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spreadingtheGospel
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I was also notified that I was mentioned in this post. But, from what I see I can not find where I have been mentioned. If someone was referring to me as a heretic, it is probably because they have a problem with Jesus. I have not said anything on this site that Jesus himself did not say. "If they hate you remember they hated me first" (John 15:18-25).
Dave M
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ChrissyCat
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Hmm...I received notice I was tagged in this thread, but I can't find it. Why did I get tagged? Did it get deleted??
Brad Huber
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It was an accident that one of the moderators tagged a lot of ppl they didnt mean to, no worries ChrissyCat.
ChrissyCat
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Oh OK! Thanks for telling me!
I'm replying back to Post #26 that was posted by Dave M. he was replying back to 'spreading the Gospels' comment about heretical teachings of Jesus Christ. My understanding is that heresy is Not acknowledging Jesus Christ as being the Son of God // His death, burial and bodily resurrection // the one and only means of forgiveness of sins.
But a person can Also take the 'words of Jesus Christ' and use them in and or out of their intended context and cause problems in application Of.
And sometimes a person will believe that since they are using the KJV, that they can say / use Any verse in or out of context and be 'right' simply because it Is God's Word AND it Is, After all, the KJV.
Bill
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Young one LOL. Do not feel you are the only one who stirs up the brothers and sisters here. But if you do stir them up, always do it in God's Love.
Bill
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I remember when Jim Jones was a big preacher here in the United States, he had all the charisma in the world. Many were swayed by his message. You know where that lead ppl. To thier death
Quantrill
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And it was so plain that he was a false teacher. He wasn't even close in either conduct or doctrine to really fool anyone. Makes one wonder the motive of those who followed him.
Quantrill
Bill
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I couldnt tell you , but i did hear of his charisma
Dave M
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ignorance of the true word of God, most people that listen to these false teachers I dont beleive they spen any time in the word them selves, they go for a pep talk on sundays on how they should be rich in a materialistic way, wich is waht the flesh wants to here, you wont here the warnings of being rich that are taught in the bible
Dovegiven
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First this as a lead to an experience that might help answer the OP.
Romans 16:17-20 (KJV)
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
"Mark" there comes from the Greek meaning take aim at or spy on, take heed of, take critical note of. It's a mental tagging. Quite often a congregation that's in unity can sit listening to a speaker who makes a false or questionable point, and not stir or look around. Later they discover probably everyone wrote the speaker off their list, so would be opposed to inviting him back. They marked the speaker. In my opinion the pastor ought to make the correction, maybe pass a slip to the speaker so the error can be settled before end of meeting.
The emphasis in that passage focuses on those who cause divisions, made more difficult due to ear tickling words. If error is received without marking the speaker and message, then divisions can follow. If a division of people over a false doctrine or simple idea occurs, the false statement has become evil spreading like a cancer small or large. Churches can split over minor instances of those. Christian chat rooms can crumble over one hot division gone uncorrected. We have great moderators watching over that. Confidence grows for everyone affected when correction is immediately applied as thoroughly as possible.
The other issue, offenses, is more common and sometimes harder to deal with. Some or many members often just leave before those can be healed. A division might require many Bible lessons to heal, while an offense ought to be healed before the sun sets, or it can grow into division.
In both cases, whoever begins one of those issues without immediate repentance needs to be mentally dismissed by the congregation, and avoided altogether even though that might seem unloving. This is not like Matthew 18 with instructions for a brother offended going to the offender in private, then if failing to reconcile, taking the matter to a few witnesses, and hopefully not before the whole congregation. Any false teacher ought to be considered eligible for repentance and forgiveness, so the elders ought to be ready to confront and correct them. At least make an appropriate effort, but not destroy him before the congregation without mercy. Lots of false teaching is simple ignorance. One way to deal with that is to start the music, let pastor speak a few words privately with microphone muted.
An example is an incident I experienced while teaching a young adult Bible class. College students were back home, so the class grew. One member brought a friend who was quite outspoken. The lessons for them are based on a topic chosen by the class for the next class period. The topic was "Are Christians accountable for sinful behavior of their adult children" or close friends? The topic came up over Joshua being ordered by God to invade Ai to kill every human in that city because of their great sins. The woman interrupted with a question. "My parents have disowned me and stopped paying for my college because I was born lesbian and won't change. Are they even Christian?" What a loaded question!
She wasn't teaching a false doctrine, certainly not tickling ears. The woman was just....divisive, and caused offense. That was quite disruptive, divisions were birthed, and confusion arose. She left me 8 minutes to answer. I had only one immediate answer. "That is a question you need to take up with your parents. Class, we'll get to the bottom of it when we have more time." The woman shouted out "Coward", and left. Hands were going up, but I finished the planned lesson, explaining I have to mark people who cause divisions and offenses, refusing to consider that without a lot more information and prayer, so as not to make the issue worse for the class, that it was a matter for counselors to take up. It took weeks to repair that issue, it being THE question for the next few Sundays, in addition to phone and Messenger discussion, and explaining to Pastor, getting guidance from him.
Romans 16:17-20 (KJV)
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
"Mark" there comes from the Greek meaning take aim at or spy on, take heed of, take critical note of. It's a mental tagging. Quite often a congregation that's in unity can sit listening to a speaker who makes a false or questionable point, and not stir or look around. Later they discover probably everyone wrote the speaker off their list, so would be opposed to inviting him back. They marked the speaker. In my opinion the pastor ought to make the correction, maybe pass a slip to the speaker so the error can be settled before end of meeting.
The emphasis in that passage focuses on those who cause divisions, made more difficult due to ear tickling words. If error is received without marking the speaker and message, then divisions can follow. If a division of people over a false doctrine or simple idea occurs, the false statement has become evil spreading like a cancer small or large. Churches can split over minor instances of those. Christian chat rooms can crumble over one hot division gone uncorrected. We have great moderators watching over that. Confidence grows for everyone affected when correction is immediately applied as thoroughly as possible.
The other issue, offenses, is more common and sometimes harder to deal with. Some or many members often just leave before those can be healed. A division might require many Bible lessons to heal, while an offense ought to be healed before the sun sets, or it can grow into division.
In both cases, whoever begins one of those issues without immediate repentance needs to be mentally dismissed by the congregation, and avoided altogether even though that might seem unloving. This is not like Matthew 18 with instructions for a brother offended going to the offender in private, then if failing to reconcile, taking the matter to a few witnesses, and hopefully not before the whole congregation. Any false teacher ought to be considered eligible for repentance and forgiveness, so the elders ought to be ready to confront and correct them. At least make an appropriate effort, but not destroy him before the congregation without mercy. Lots of false teaching is simple ignorance. One way to deal with that is to start the music, let pastor speak a few words privately with microphone muted.
An example is an incident I experienced while teaching a young adult Bible class. College students were back home, so the class grew. One member brought a friend who was quite outspoken. The lessons for them are based on a topic chosen by the class for the next class period. The topic was "Are Christians accountable for sinful behavior of their adult children" or close friends? The topic came up over Joshua being ordered by God to invade Ai to kill every human in that city because of their great sins. The woman interrupted with a question. "My parents have disowned me and stopped paying for my college because I was born lesbian and won't change. Are they even Christian?" What a loaded question!
She wasn't teaching a false doctrine, certainly not tickling ears. The woman was just....divisive, and caused offense. That was quite disruptive, divisions were birthed, and confusion arose. She left me 8 minutes to answer. I had only one immediate answer. "That is a question you need to take up with your parents. Class, we'll get to the bottom of it when we have more time." The woman shouted out "Coward", and left. Hands were going up, but I finished the planned lesson, explaining I have to mark people who cause divisions and offenses, refusing to consider that without a lot more information and prayer, so as not to make the issue worse for the class, that it was a matter for counselors to take up. It took weeks to repair that issue, it being THE question for the next few Sundays, in addition to phone and Messenger discussion, and explaining to Pastor, getting guidance from him.
spreadingtheGospel
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Hey Nick,
No problem bro. Thanks for clearing that up. Have a great day.
No problem bro. Thanks for clearing that up. Have a great day.
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Hello @spreadingtheGospel
Thank-you for your understanding!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Thank-you for your understanding!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Dovegiven
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Detecting false teachers, and knowing what to do about them has become more difficult than just comparing their words to what the Bible presents. What is considered a good sermon in one church might completely offend another congregation. Consider the current confusion over gender identity and other preferences God declared were abominations to Him. Unfortunately they are growing far less troublesome to a lot of folks who could not care less about what God thinks. So if a speaker were to bring up a divisive or offensive issue like those before a conservative congregation that would be an act of heresy. But it would not be a heresy in a liberal congregation. It might result in expulsion at the hands of elders in one place, or accolades in another. There just isn't a widespread standard to go by, which resulted in denominations regulating ministers wanting to accept an invitation outside his licensing by his denomination.
What amazes me is there's a lot more focus on what some TV preacer says that offends a listener whose church is already opposed to that preacher's doctrine. It's to me like someone outside a saloon warning folks there are drunks inside. Or, a drug addict outside a church warning folks there's a preacher of deliverance from drug abuse inside. Hey, the folks inside like what their preachers say.
The most interesting account to me of charges of heresy by the Church is the condemnation of scientists, venegeful towards Galileo the inventor of the telescope, the scientific method (well, the original trus one), and many other discoveries, but made the grave error of supporting Copernicus' thesis (not a proved theory or law) that the earth revolved around the sun, and other his own astronomical facts. He faced a long inquisition from Catholics in Rome, setting him back. The Catholics beieved the science didn't match up with some passages in the Bible. So it was a famous scientist was regarded as an heretic.
History has frequently vindicated supposed heretics, mostly putting ignorance and fears to rest.
If you think a preacher or teacher is an heretic, be careful, be certain you are right, for those acts can turn on the accusers. It's much more reasonable to stick to the basics, like what the Bible says about Jesus, avoiding what is likely to be a denominational difference of opinion about for instance who can partake of the Lord's Supper observance, and how it should be administered.
What amazes me is there's a lot more focus on what some TV preacer says that offends a listener whose church is already opposed to that preacher's doctrine. It's to me like someone outside a saloon warning folks there are drunks inside. Or, a drug addict outside a church warning folks there's a preacher of deliverance from drug abuse inside. Hey, the folks inside like what their preachers say.
The most interesting account to me of charges of heresy by the Church is the condemnation of scientists, venegeful towards Galileo the inventor of the telescope, the scientific method (well, the original trus one), and many other discoveries, but made the grave error of supporting Copernicus' thesis (not a proved theory or law) that the earth revolved around the sun, and other his own astronomical facts. He faced a long inquisition from Catholics in Rome, setting him back. The Catholics beieved the science didn't match up with some passages in the Bible. So it was a famous scientist was regarded as an heretic.
History has frequently vindicated supposed heretics, mostly putting ignorance and fears to rest.
If you think a preacher or teacher is an heretic, be careful, be certain you are right, for those acts can turn on the accusers. It's much more reasonable to stick to the basics, like what the Bible says about Jesus, avoiding what is likely to be a denominational difference of opinion about for instance who can partake of the Lord's Supper observance, and how it should be administered.
Bendito
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That's true...That PC junk is very destructive to intelligence.
