And lead us not into temptation

[robaston]

That is exactly right, with him in us, He leads us away from temptation and He delivers us from evil!

don't know whether God leads us away UNLESS we ask, we always have that option - Genesis 4:7

 

[RJ]

don't know whether God leads us away UNLESS we ask, we always have that option - Genesis 4:7

Brother, why would you ask? If you were still a non-believer, you wouldn't care. With him in you, he leads you away by helping you see your sin. In your Genesis 4:7 , ( it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”) The Old Covenant failed, not because the law was bad, but because man was and couldn't accomplish anything. In the New Covenant and Christ in you, you don't rule over sin he does!

 

[Christ4Ever]

@robaston

Sister @Lanolin hit on something when she said that the complete sentence should be taken into consideration. Felt the Holy Spirit in me move when I read that post!

A couple of versions one being ASV has at the end of verse Matthew 6:13 as "....the evil one." which if you consider "evil" is not going too far wrong in identifying what is being talked about in this verse.

I believe this would make sense since we know from James 1:13 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."that temptation is not something that is generated from God. Yet we also know that God will allow temptation to occur Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD." and if your are tempted that a way out exists 1 Corinthians 10:13 "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]."

Realizing that God is not the originator, but Satan who cannot do anything on His own, however, can still affect us through the Carnal Nature that still exists in us. Remember he too can affect certain conditions that may not work in us, but around us and through others who belong to him. (Hopefully, not forever.)

This doesn't mean we are weaponless, which I believe "discernment" as being one of those and prayer (being discussed) another weapon by which we in the Spirit may defeat/avoid/get assistance when conditions are warranted! In these days I would say it warranted more often then we may realize!

I don't want to go too far afield from what you have posted Brother, and of which I must say a very fine question you have posed! Thank-you for posting it!

I would add one word of caution as I leave this post for you alls consideration.

If one believes they can't be or won't be tempted. Be very careful with this mindset. It leaves the door open a crack for the adversary to tickle. Consider what that something maybe that is happening in many of the churches today. That is "complacency" which a way might very easily fall in line with "pride" etc.

See what I said? Easy to get off the original intent.

With Love my Brothers & Sisters.
C4E
<><

Word from on high my brother was - "endurance"

 

[robaston]

If one believes they can't be or won't be tempted. Be very careful with this mindset. It leaves the door open a crack for the adversary to tickle. Consider what that something maybe that is happening in many of the churches today. That is "complacency" which a way might very easily fall in line with "pride" etc.

See what I said? Easy to get off the original intent.

With Love my Brothers & Sisters.
C4E
<><

Word from on high my brother was - "endurance"

thank u c4e,i need my family and the many angles in this thread reflects edification of the saints. i am house-bound and TJ gives me fellowship, and motivation to bible study. As for me, my name is goff and I'm off...to word study "endurance"

 

[RJ]

thank u c4e,i need my family and the many angles in this thread reflects edification of the saints. i am house-bound and TJ gives me fellowship, and motivation to bible study. As for me, my name is goff and I'm off...to word study "endurance"

He who is inside you is greater than anything or anyone outside of you! Now that's endurance!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

There is a simple explanation for this but many disagree...This passage was for the unbeliever, primarily that of Gnostics of that time.
That being correct, there is no "However"!

Ask for what, I though you just said past, present and future sins. "Just like anything else" would require you to see and be aware of each sin....there are countless ways to sin, what if you don't see one, what then?

No, UN-repentant sin means you are aware of a sin but UN-repentant for it...there is no faith or salvation there. A "Born Again" Christian hates sin and has a repentant heart but doesn't necessarily realize each time he sins.

Rj Greetings,
Brother I will be one of those who will not accept that 1John 1:9 is or weas only for unbelievers.
I also will NOT ever accept that frame of mind that we do not need to repent and ask for forgiveness even after being born again.

I will agree that our missing it in the now wont keep us out of heaven - however the truth is that lack of Love - Forgivenerss and UnRepented sin will and does hinder our faith. It will clog things up and bring thingsd to a hault if not dealt with....

I am not going to play this wehat if game either.
You seem to be old enough in Christ to know the difference. You seem to ber old enough in Christ to know that God will show you where you are missing it but then again bro - you GOT TO ASK !!
God Bless Brother and have a great night
Jim

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

You need to quote the whole verse which is -lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
I think a lot of christians fall short of the deliverance part.

many then think its ok to still go ahead and walk in the way of sinners. But Jesus sets us free so we don't have to go back there.

Amen Lanolin,
Far to many Christians act as if they can do as they please because all is forgiven. Not so !!
Nice to see you again........I wondered what had happened to you when you stopped posting over at the other place.
God Bless
Jim

 

[KingJ]

I agree. Jesus gave us a 'how to' in prayer...Though I do believe our bibles drifted from accuracy in the interpretation...I believe Jesus said it as a series of statements of faith rather than asking God to do as He had already done.

Agreed. I have noticed / discovered something very interesting recently in Paul's teaching which I think ties up with how Jesus taught.

Paul never spoke as though the audience was either saved or unsaved. He always spoke / differentiated between those ''professing'' to be saved vs those not professing to be saved. Classic example is in the first line of 1 Cor 5 ''some of our brethren are committing incest''. Would a saved person ever do that? :whistle :laugh:.

Paul is being respectful to all. Jesus is being respectful to all. The unsaved and those not professing to be saved are given the building blocks in the prayer by Jesus and teachings by Paul to come to the Lord.

 

[RJ]

Brother I will be one of those who will not accept that 1John 1:9 is or weas only for unbelievers.

Sure, we all have knowledge / opinions, you believe in a legal system where you must continue to do something to maintain your salvation, I believe that salvation is by grace alone and a gift from God. The book of 1 John was written to believers alright but it was about unbelievers! This was to basically addres the error of Gnosticism which in part is not believing in the existence of sin.

however the truth is that lack of Love - Forgivenerss and UnRepented sin will and does hinder our faith.

The "lack of forgiveness"??...how many times did Jesus die for YOUR sins? The lack of love and compassion is a definite sign that possibly you have not been born again! As a believer, a "Born Again" Christian, it is not a matter of unrepentant sin, but whether you posses a true repentant heart. How can you possibly see and remember each sin and then go to God for forgiveness each time?...that is not being "set free" from sin, that is still being in bondage to it! When I do see or realize I have just sinned, I thank God for his forgiveness and what he has already done for me. I call your attention to James 2:10 and see if it doesn't apply here: For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. In a legal system, the same would also be true. For If we continually going to God each time we sin is a requirement, you would have to never repeat that sin and can never miss one 24/7. But, we are not now under a legal system, we are under the full grace of God!

but then again bro - you GOT TO ASK

Have a repentant heart and view of sin yes but, how many times do you need to go to God for something he has already provided...Jesus died once and for all! If you try to go to God for forgiveness each time you sin, is impossible, but if you could, each time it would be like asking Jesus to climb up on the cross and die again and that is not going to happen. Romans 4:25, Hebrews 9:26, Hebrews 6:5-6...5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame
Alas, we come to this em-pass, but I am sure we can agree to disagree and say that Jesus is Lord and Savior!

 

[Christ4Ever]

thank u c4e,i need my family and the many angles in this thread reflects edification of the saints. i am house-bound and TJ gives me fellowship, and motivation to bible study. As for me, my name is goff and I'm off...to word study "endurance"

As always Brother Goff, you do make my heart sing, just by your presence here.

The time that you have though I'm sure you would desire it otherwise, allows you to study in greater detail and so saying. I'm looking forward to what your study brings up on "endurance"! Maybe in a new thread, for this one seems to be going a bit haywire already

Always in love dear brother Goff.
Nick
<><

@RJ @Wired 4 Fishen
Even through all the jostling that goes on between some brothers at times. It's still a joy to know that they are able to overlook the disagreements and come to an understanding that though they disagree in points. That after all is said and done. Salvation is by Grace is agreed upon!

Also, that when moving so far afield from the original question of the thread, it really is suggested that of your own volition that the discussion having gone so astray is moved to maybe a new created thread which one of you all can create. Prevents this thread from being diluted any further :thumbsup:

I offer any assistance you may need in moving the postings done here to another location. Just create the thread and let me know the number (top right of each post which I'm sure you know) of the postings you'd like me to move and I'll do so.

Appreciate it brothers!
Always with the love of our Lord Christ Jesus.
Your Servant in Christ Jesus.

 

[RJ]

I was going over the posts in this thread and for some reason the following really stuck out to me:

our bibles contain a certain amount of 'drift' from accuracy....

"drift" from accuracy? God being perfect in every since ( omni ), his word is inerrant, how can there be any drift from accuracy?
did Jesus teach His disciples to ask for something He already did? This is also confusing, at the time of giving the "Lord's Prayer", he was replying under the Mosaic Law. He wasn't teaching them something he had already done...he hadn't died and resurrected yet, ushering in the New Covenant!

 

[Bendito]

I was going over the posts in this thread and for some reason the following really stuck out to me:

"drift" from accuracy? God being perfect in every since ( omni ), his word is inerrant, how can there be any drift from accuracy?
did Jesus teach His disciples to ask for something He already did? This is also confusing, at the time of giving the "Lord's Prayer", he was replying under the Mosaic Law. He wasn't teaching them something he had already done...he hadn't died and resurrected yet, ushering in the New Covenant!

RJ I am not talking about the veracity of the Word. I am talking about inaccuracy in translation. As an example; The word Christ...Not translated from the Greek...It has NO meaning at all in English...So what effect? People think that Christ is Jesus' last name. Is that accurate? Not at all....Christ translated though would read as 'the anointed one and His anointing'. Look.
John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. This verse would read...'For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus the anointed one, and his anointing'. It says the same thing but now its more accurate is much more understandable....It now has meaning in English..It now has meaning to us.

 

[RJ]

RJ I am not talking about the veracity of the Word. I am talking about inaccuracy in translation.

O.K., I can't argue with what you are now saying, there , of course, is an enormous variation in translation. I can only go by your original statement , " a drift from accuracy" . I believe this is what you said:

let it occur to you that it's possible that the words we read in our bibles contain a certain amount of 'drift' from accuracy..

All I saw was a "drift in accuracy" with the word..... a drift is veracity of the word is how I read it! ...not translation! The next time you have a desire to teach me a lesson, I am all ears and very open to learn, but do us both a favor and not drift from accuracy!

 

[Bendito]

O.K., I can't argue with what you are now saying, there , of course, is an enormous variation in translation. I can only go by your original statement , " a drift from accuracy" . I believe this is what you said:
All I saw was a "drift in accuracy" with the word..... a drift is veracity of the word is how I read it! ...not translation! The next time you have a desire to teach me a lesson, I am all ears and very open to learn, but do us both a favor and not drift from accuracy!

LOL You got it!

 

[B-A-C]

While God Himself doesn't tempt us. He certainly allows us to be tempted and tested. In fact this happens frequently to almost
everyone in the Bible.

God didn't tempt Jesus... but the Holy Spirit certainly led Jesus to the place He would be tempted ( Matt 4:1; )
God didn't tempt Job, but He certainly let Job be tested. The endurance of our testing counts. ( James 5:11; )
God allowed Peter to be tempted (some Bible say tested or sifted) Luke 22:31;

According to James 1:15; God doesn't tempt anyone. But He does sometimes lead us to the places to be tested and tempted.
In fact if God did not allow Christians to be tempted, no Christians ever would be tempted.
If we look closely at the story of Job.. it wasn't Satan who initiated the testing, but rather God
himself who told Satan to test Job.

Yet we all are. Satan doesn't need to tempt the unsaved. They are already his. Satan wants to tempt the saved.

I certainly believe it's a good idea to pray "lead us not into temptation", because temptations
certainly have a way of finding us.

 

[Bendito]

While God Himself doesn't tempt us. He certainly allows us to be tempted and tested. In fact this happens frequently to almost
everyone in the Bible.

God didn't tempt Jesus... but the Holy Spirit certainly led Jesus to the place He would be tempted ( Matt 4:1; )
God didn't tempt Job, but He certainly let Job be tested. The endurance of our testing counts. ( James 5:11; )
God allowed Peter to be tempted (some Bible say tested or sifted) Luke 22:31;

According to James 1:15; God doesn't tempt anyone. But He does sometimes lead us to the places to be tested and tempted.
In fact if God did not allow Christians to be tempted, no Christians ever would be tempted.
If we look closely at the story of Job.. it wasn't Satan who initiated the testing, but rather God
himself who told Satan to test Job.

Yet we all are. Satan doesn't need to tempt the unsaved. They are already his. Satan wants to tempt the saved.

I certainly believe it's a good idea to pray "lead us not into temptation", because temptations
certainly have a way of finding us.

1 John 2:10
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1 John 2:10(CJB)
10 The person who keeps loving his brother remains in the light, and there is nothing in him that could make him trip.

If you walk in the light there is no temptation...The darkness in the realm of the evil one.

 

[B-A-C]

If you walk in the light there is no temptation...The darkness in the realm of the evil one.

Maybe that's why we're tempted sometimes... to see if we really are.. "in the light".
But even Jesus was tempted, I wouldn't say He was in the darkness.

 

[Bendito]

Maybe that's why we're tempted sometimes... to see if we really are.. "in the light".
But even Jesus was tempted, I wouldn't say He was in the darkness.

We are tempted to sin so Satan can tear our meathouse down...Satan does not care if we are in the light, but he cannot tempt us when we are in the light...He cannot stand in the light.

 

[Bendito]

We are tempted to sin so Satan can tear our meathouse down...Satan does not care if we are in the light, but he cannot tempt us when we are in the light...He cannot stand in the light.

To be more clear...God is light....In Him we cannot be tempted...So...we walk in Light, we walk in Love....

1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.