Are Ghosts Real?

[Fraction]

Thanks for your reply, however, I find your opinions to be a bit debasing. Each of those quotes and scriptures you eagerly dismissed actually answered all of my questions, and now, through the Lord's guidance, I have a much better understanding of ghosts, demons, and the spiritual realm.

While it is true that there is much the bible fails to specifically mention, the lack of "information" does not give us pass to turn a blind eye to the ways of this world. Yes, the secret things belong to the Lord, but He also blessed us with a mind and a brain to use to gain information; and that, my friend, was the purpose of this thread-- to gain information. A purpose which has successfully been accomplished.

We won't know all the mysteries of this world, but we can try to find out. Ignorance is dangerous, and so we must not simply ignore those things we don't understand or those things not mentioned specifically in the Bible. We must instead go forth equipped with Biblical knowledge and the Holy Spirit and test things, try things, ask things, and learn things. Wondering and asking these questions is important because it will better equip us and individuals, and as a church, to go out and argue our case for the Lord amid the philosophy and beliefs of this earth.

If you fail to take away any understanding or comprehension from the answers on this thread, that is unfortunate, but you ought to withhold from "branding something you know nothing at all about" as being simply "unexplained". For it is with our understanding of the Bible and our knowledge of God that we can go out and attempt to learn about anything and everything, and through personal experience, imagination, and thinking we can gain explanation and understanding of those things around us. Faith was given to us by God, and science was given to us by God... it is through the combination of the two, with the light of Christ, that we will gain the greatest understanding.

Ergo, ask!

You read opinions about Ghosts and the spiritual realm. You didn't read scriptures. I don't see any scriptures posted so far that talked specificly about ghosts or a spiritual realm. So you have gained understandings from peoples opinions. Which isn't a bad thing. The bible itself has tons of different translations and interpretations. Doesn't mean they are wrong, just different. This same concept goes with thousands of other subjects in the world as well.

I agree with you 100% that we need to explore and figure things out. To strive to understand and learn is one of the best gifts that God has given us. Not only with things that are odd and out of place, but with the history of humanity itself. There are countless amount of things that we can learn from the things around us, and the human beings of the past.

I don't fail to take something from this thread, because I do take a good bit from the thread. However I do not find an answer to the question "Are ghosts real?". It simply cannot be answered or has not been answered with biblical reference. People have stated their opinions, which is very good. I was merely stating that it was wrong to brand and talk about things so passionately while you know nothing about them. The bible teaches us about God. It teaches us how to live. It teaches us about the best things in our lives, but it does not teach us about everything in existence. It teaches us about what matters most in life. Faith and Love. God.

Therefor it has nothing to do with random questions because the bible is a book about God, not ghosts or things of that nature. Which explains your point from earlier, figure it out ourselves. God gave us everything we need to figure out all sorts of things. It might take awhile, but it gets there eventually. The only thing I am really trying to say is that: No one knows if ghosts are real or not, and there hasnt been any biblical proof that talks about ghosts that has been provided. It is all opinionated.

First I am thankful AudryNicole for you here as well!! Now Fraction you said no where in the Bible is there ever metioned ghost other then Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit,what if i could prove to you, then way back then people did believe that there were such things as ghosts other then Holy Ghost!!

I would think,that if anyone metioned a ghost other then Holy,they would never have said this unless it were true correct?? agreed! Pull up your socks bro!! and get ready for what you did not think was in the Word of God concerning this!! Now a ghost is the same as a spirit,but because you want to get Ghost in here,I will! Now remember,if there are no such things as these,then no one would ever say ghost! Matt 14:26,mark 6:49,luke 24:37 I hope this helps you believe. blessing!

I never denied the existence of ghosts. I just said that no one can prove they do not exist or if they do. If they are evil or if they are not. If they are angels or demons, aliens or cupcakes, or anything like that. Nowhere did I deny their existence.

Yes, the holy ghost is one spiritual thing. Its the spiritual form of God. So there is one ghost that we can prove that exists. What about the others? Are they evil? Are they neutral? Are they angels? No one knows.

 

[Brother Mike]

Nobody Knows.......... beyond our understand...

Fraction

I never denied the existence of ghosts. I just said that no one can prove they do not exist or if they do. If they are evil or if they are not. If they are angels or demons, aliens or cupcakes, or anything like that. Nowhere did I deny their existence.

Yes, the holy ghost is one spiritual thing. Its the spiritual form of God. So there is one ghost that we can prove that exists. What about the others? Are they evil? Are they neutral? Are they angels? No one knows.

If one would read all the post, one might know........

Ghost: The spirit of a dead person, especially one believed to appear in bodily likeness to living persons or to haunt former habitats.

1) Appear as a former person
2) Haunt former Habitats.


God created all the "HOST" (Translated Armies) of Heavens at the very start... Created servants, spirits. This is before mankind.
(Gen 2:1)

These "Host" spirits can appear Human, to where we can't even tell them apart from normal Humans.
(Luke 24:4) (Gen 19:1) (Heb 13:2)

Angels and Demons of two different Kingdoms have different functions and titles..
Called the Elect (1Ti 5:21)
Devils ranked (Eph 6:12) Also called prince, god of this world (Satan)
Angels Ranked (cherubim, seraphim, sons of god, Prince, Watcher, Archangel

Devils can appear as good spirits, and helpful spirits.

2Co 11:14 And it is no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light;

Not every spirit is of God.
(1Jon 4:1-6)

God forbids contact with Familiar spirits "mediums, seances" (spirits that mimic dead humans, and hence the name Familiar spirit)

Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD:

Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?


One Human Spirit brought back (or was it human?)


Witch of Endor



This is a remarkable example of attempting to contact a dead human spirit... The witch who had a familiar spirit to rely on, sought to (Supposedly) Call up Samuel... This is how these witches deceived people in calling up their dead.. or the "Human Ghost"
She is well known in all the Land, and a expert at this...
(Isaiah 8:19)

1Sa 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

1Sa 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, [HIGH-LIGHT]she cried with a loud voice[/HIGH-LIGHT]: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. This is not what the Witch expected to see and was not her familiar spirit she was accustomed to. We can tell by her reaction. The REAL (Likeness) of Samuel showed up!!!

1Sa 28:13 The king said to her, Be not afraid; what do you see? The woman said to Saul, I see a god [terrifying superhuman being] coming up out of the earth! (this could not have been the real Samuel, Luke 16:26)
1Sa 28:14 He said to her, In what form is he? And she said, An old man comes up, covered with a mantle.... (Saul could only take the Witches Word on what she saw)

God forbid anyone contacting the dead, hence no Human spirits good or bad operated on earth. If there were, then God would have been OK with the contact of helpful Human spirits.. that served God.

If you want More evidence this was not really Samuel... just ask...

There is no evidence in the bible that Human spirits are able to walk around ... we have lots of evidence that demonic spirits act like what people today perceive to be "Ghost"

We also know Devils are territorial... by Nature... thus the (Haunted House syndrome)
(Matt 8:31) (Matt 12:43-45)

What happens to man after death??

Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

WE have a family waiting on us in Heaven..... Great cloud of witnesses. (Heb 12:1)

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Those that die in the Lord, are to be with the Lord... No option to become a Ghost....

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
After a man dies........ Then Judgment... No options to become a Ghost.. and no option for the rich man that spoke with Abraham...
(Luke 16:19-31)
There are no Ghost!!!!!!!

Faction

I never denied the existence of ghosts. I just said that no one can prove they do not exist or if they do. If they are evil or if they are not. If they are angels or demons, aliens or cupcakes, or anything like that. Nowhere did I deny their existence.

These are not opinions.. We that have gained experience and have had to deal with these things, know of these things.. We are not confused by which we have dealt with...

Now you know....Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Fraction]

Fraction
If one would read all the post, one might know........

Ghost: The spirit of a dead person, especially one believed to appear in bodily likeness to living persons or to haunt former habitats.

1) Appear as a former person
2) Haunt former Habitats.


God created all the "HOST" (Translated Armies) of Heavens at the very start... Created servants, spirits. This is before mankind.
(Gen 2:1)

These "Host" spirits can appear Human, to where we can't even tell them apart from normal Humans.
(Luke 24:4) (Gen 19:1) (Heb 13:2)

Angels and Demons of two different Kingdoms have different functions and titles..
Called the Elect (1Ti 5:21)
Devils ranked (Eph 6:12) Also called prince, god of this world (Satan)
Angels Ranked (cherubim, seraphim, sons of god, Prince, Watcher, Archangel

Devils can appear as good spirits, and helpful spirits.

2Co 11:14 And it is no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light;

Not every spirit is of God.
(1Jon 4:1-6)

God forbids contact with Familiar spirits "mediums, seances" (spirits that mimic dead humans, and hence the name Familiar spirit)

Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD:

Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?


One Human Spirit brought back (or was it human?)


Witch of Endor



This is a remarkable example of attempting to contact a dead human spirit... The witch who had a familiar spirit to rely on, sought to (Supposedly) Call up Samuel... This is how these witches deceived people in calling up their dead.. or the "Human Ghost"
She is well known in all the Land, and a expert at this...
(Isaiah 8:19)

1Sa 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

1Sa 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, [HIGH-LIGHT]she cried with a loud voice[/HIGH-LIGHT]: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. This is not what the Witch expected to see and was not her familiar spirit she was accustomed to. We can tell by her reaction. The REAL (Likeness) of Samuel showed up!!!

1Sa 28:13 The king said to her, Be not afraid; what do you see? The woman said to Saul, I see a god [terrifying superhuman being] coming up out of the earth! (this could not have been the real Samuel, Luke 16:26)
1Sa 28:14 He said to her, In what form is he? And she said, An old man comes up, covered with a mantle.... (Saul could only take the Witches Word on what she saw)

God forbid anyone contacting the dead, hence no Human spirits good or bad operated on earth. If there were, then God would have been OK with the contact of helpful Human spirits.. that served God.

If you want More evidence this was not really Samuel... just ask...

There is no evidence in the bible that Human spirits are able to walk around ... we have lots of evidence that demonic spirits act like what people today perceive to be "Ghost"

We also know Devils are territorial... by Nature... thus the (Haunted House syndrome)
(Matt 8:31) (Matt 12:43-45)

What happens to man after death??

Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

WE have a family waiting on us in Heaven..... Great cloud of witnesses. (Heb 12:1)

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Those that die in the Lord, are to be with the Lord... No option to become a Ghost....

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
After a man dies........ Then Judgment... No options to become a Ghost.. and no option for the rich man that spoke with Abraham...
(Luke 16:19-31)
There are no Ghost!!!!!!!

Faction
These are not opinions.. We that have gained experience and have had to deal with these things, know of these things.. We are not confused by which we have dealt with...

Now you know....Jesus Is Lord.

If I didn't read your post why would I quote it and talk about it? I read your post just fine, and it could be all summed up with "No biblical evidence". Whether you want to accept it not, it makes no difference to me. You still cannot provide evidence that ghosts do walk the earth, or they do not walk the earth. I guess I could go over it with you, just this once.

A lot of these scriptures is on par when it is talking about angels and demons. Creations and fallen creations of God. This is merely a lore recap, that has nothing to do with ghosts. Divine and demonic intervention has a completely different subject than ghosts. Ghosts are HUMAN spirits, not actions of the demonic or divine. Also have you even read 2CO 11? You just throw this scripture out saying that it is strictly spiritual. Read the chapter, its about false prophets and apostles, not spirits. You might wanna take this advice, to understand any verse in the bible you should read ten verses before and ten after. lol

You say this directly in your post that God forbids contacting, mimicing, raising, etc etc the dead. This is human deliberate action performing rituals and special tasks to try to talk to or bring back the dead. This has NOTHING to do with the existence of ghosts. It just tells us that playing in death will get you in some serious trouble, and that its bad.

Almost had me with the scriptures on saved christians going to heaven. However belief on what happens after you die (unsaved or saved) varies from christian to christian. I can't exactly say to much, but it still in my opinion isnt proof that ghosts do or do not exist.

Experiences cannot be opinions. Experiences are direct events or actual emotions that you feel resulting of a direct event. Therefor, experiences are always going to be a fact. No one said your experiences were an opinion. Your view, your interpretation, your opinions are opinions. The same goes for every single person in the world, most of the way everyone sees everything is viewed in their own opinion. You are all entitled to it and have a right to have it. However, don't let people alter your opinions...find things out for yourself.

In conclusion, I respect each and everyone here. I just wanted to point out that there is no biblical proof about ghosts. Even more important, none has been provided. It still has not. Apologies if anyone has been offended.

 

[Brother Mike]

One can only lead.. but.....

Read the chapter, its about false prophets and apostles, not spirits. You might wanna take this advice, to understand any verse in the bible you should read ten verses before and ten after. lol

You think that is funny, "lol"?? and by what spirit do these false prophets and apostles operate under... you need scripture??

Even Peter who went to protect the Lord was motivated under the operation of Satan...

Almost had me with the scriptures on saved christians going to heaven. However belief on what happens after you die (unsaved or saved) varies from christian to christian. I can't exactly say to much, but it still in my opinion isnt proof that ghosts do or do not exist.

We are told what happens after death... Judgment... No ghost options. What others think about what happens is not important, what do you think what happens... That is what is important.. What did Paul say again.. to die is to what??

I just wanted to point out that there is no biblical proof about ghosts.

And what are Ghost again...?? as in Human spirit Ghost??
Why is there no biblical proof of Ghost??

You think God who told us about Heaven, and Hell, and who crated us might have at least mentioned one time that being a roaming around Human Ghost is also a option?? If Ghost were real that is...

God does not mention Dwarf's, Elves, And Pixie's along with no mention of Human Ghost, because they are not REAL!!!

God forbid attempted communication with the dead. You think for a second that Satan with Familiar spirits that mimic the dead would not try to draw away many in a lie that Humans can still hang around on earth after death, and that we can communicate with them, bringing us into contact with the demonic Kingdom???

Ghost: Human spirit at unrest, unfinished business, traumatic death. These are man's made up definitions of Ghost. The bible never talks about Human Ghost.. The bible talks about demons and Angels, and Demons that do the same things observed by those that think they have seen ghost... Fear..... is very common and the aurora of it..

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

After death... there is no more thinking.................

Isa 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.

Talking about the removing of people's...

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; and they have no more reward [here], for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Their love and their hatred and their envy have already perished; neither have they any more a share in anything that is done under the sun.

The dead, have no more part, emotion, or anything on this earth... They are appointed to die, then judgement.. Not become a Ghost.

If scripture is not good enough.. Not much else to discuss....

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Fraction]

You think that is funny, "lol"?? and by what spirit do these false prophets and apostles operate under... you need scripture??

Even Peter who went to protect the Lord was motivated under the operation of Satan...

We are told what happens after death... Judgment... No ghost options. What others think about what happens is not important, what do you think what happens... That is what is important.. What did Paul say again.. to die is to what??

And what are Ghost again...?? as in Human spirit Ghost??
Why is there no biblical proof of Ghost??

You think God who told us about Heaven, and Hell, and who crated us might have at least mentioned one time that being a roaming around Human Ghost is also a option?? If Ghost were real that is...

God does not mention Dwarf's, Elves, And Pixie's along with no mention of Human Ghost, because they are not REAL!!!

God forbid attempted communication with the dead. You think for a second that Satan with Familiar spirits that mimic the dead would not try to draw away many in a lie that Humans can still hang around on earth after death, and that we can communicate with them, bringing us into contact with the demonic Kingdom???

Ghost: Human spirit at unrest, unfinished business, traumatic death. These are man's made up definitions of Ghost. The bible never talks about Human Ghost.. The bible talks about demons and Angels, and Demons that do the same things observed by those that think they have seen ghost... Fear..... is very common and the aurora of it..

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

After death... there is no more thinking.................

Isa 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.

Talking about the removing of people's...

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; and they have no more reward [here], for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Their love and their hatred and their envy have already perished; neither have they any more a share in anything that is done under the sun.

The dead, have no more part, emotion, or anything on this earth... They are appointed to die, then judgement.. Not become a Ghost.

If scripture is not good enough.. Not much else to discuss....

Jesus Is Lord.

Yes I thought it was funny, you like many others point out random verses and claim a meaning of that which they do not have. Its a common mistake. If it was supposed to be like this, we would all be in a huge amount of trouble. Read the sum of the bible. Don't get upset about it lol.

Then you have the courage to go on and talk about mythical races saying they do not exist because they are not in the bible. Which I find entertaining. The bible doesn't mention about a million things, but they perfectly well exist. Does the bible talk about a computer? an electric razor? a toothbrush? a gun? a bomb? a mechanical pencil? Neutrons? Protons? Atoms? Yet they exist, do they not? The bible is a book about God and the road to get to him, not about the world or the supernatural, or the non existence of elves and dwarves lol.

The bible talks about the next event after death is judgement. It never says there is strictly nothing in between. It could be instant. It could be the sleep theory. It could be a large amount of death theories in the christian religion. The bible is vague, and not specific enough to tell us every single little detail. Why? Every detail isn't important to the bible, because that is not what its about. It is God in written word.

Scripture is enough when it is scripture related. When it isn't, God has given us the ability to find out elsewhere. There is no scripture that talks about ghosts, or ghost theories. You can relate simple words to everything, general phrases to everything, but in the end...fact is fact. Your scripture describes a series of unorganized events, it says nothing about ghosts.

You need to look not only at the definition of a ghost, but the several explanations behind them. It could be anything from a lost spirit, to left over spiritual energy.

 

[AudreyNicole]

Therefore it has nothing to do with random questions because the bible is a book about God

First off, I would most definitely argue this claim because I believe that the Bible does in fact have everything to do with every question of every aspect of life. Bar none.


But, I just have a few questions for you Fraction. Some of your posts were a bit confusing.

You say:

Only God knows if ghosts are real, and only He can explain it. It's all just unexplained.

then you say:

Ghosts are HUMAN spirits, not actions of the demonic or divine.

So I wonder... are they "just unexplained" or are they "HUMAN spirits"? Also, can you provide scripture that ghosts are human spirits?




Secondly, you say:

Believe it or don't believe it, base it off personal experience, imagination, and whatever else. In no way does it mean that it is evil.

then you say:

Experiences cannot be opinions. Experiences are direct events or actual emotions that you feel resulting of a direct event. Therefore, experiences are always going to be a fact.

So, if experiences are always a fact, and people claim that they’ve witnessed ghosts firsthand and they’re evil, doesn’t that make it a fact that ghosts are real and they are evil... since it is based off experience (which is factual evidence you claim)?




Thirdly, you say:

there is no biblical proof about ghosts.

I was wondering what you thought of these passages Brighthouse brought up: Matt 14:26, Mark 6:49, and Luke 24:37, as they mention ghosts?

 

[Fraction]

First off, I would most definitely argue this claim because I believe that the Bible does in fact have everything to do with every question of every aspect of life. Bar none.


But, I just have a few questions for you Fraction. Some of your posts were a bit confusing.

You say:
then you say:
So I wonder... are they "just unexplained" or are they "HUMAN spirits"? Also, can you provide scripture that ghosts are human spirits?




Secondly, you say:
then you say:

So, if experiences are always a fact, and people claim that they’ve witnessed ghosts firsthand and they’re evil, doesn’t that make it a fact that ghosts are real and they are evil... since it is based off experience (which is factual evidence you claim)?




Thirdly, you say:

I was wondering what you thought of these passages Brighthouse brought up: Matt 14:26, Mark 6:49, and Luke 24:37, as they mention ghosts?

The bible does in fact NOT answer every single question we can possibly have. Does the bible instruct us on how to assemble a computer? Does it teach us how to have a general education? Can we earn degrees and have a profession from the information gained from the bible such as law enforcement, nursing, or a math teacher? The Bible is a wonderful book, but it is a book about God. We can take thousands of things from it that better ourselves and ensure our victory, but it does not answer all questions that will come around in life.

Ghosts are unexplained. They are considered to be a few different things. Most say they are human spirits, and some say they are spiritual energy left behind from life. Ultimately the definition of it is a human spirit, but it is still unexplained. Currently only God knows the answer to the mystery because there is no proof.

Experience is factual evidence to the one that has the experience. Just because you see something or hear something doesn't mean that it actually happened, but it does mean that you seen it and heard it. It makes it a fact to individual people. This could be some type of illness, mental disorder, or their imagination run wild. It is proof, but it is proof to each person because all experiences and opinions are different. If ghosts do exist, you can meet a angry one or a happy one. You are but one person out of what? 6 billion? Maybe more, i forgot lol. Therefor it is a fact to you alone, unless it can be seen by all.

The passages by brighthouse are very interesting, however they still are not biblical proof that ghosts do in fact exist. If they are evil or good, or what they are exactly. They only tell us that the witnesses of these events possibly believed in ghosts, and that they thought they had seen one. They of course did not see one, and it never directly says that ghosts exist.

You will not find a solid answer to this question in The Bible. This is something that we have to learn for ourselves if we want to know about. There simply isn't a biblical answer to these types of questions. You can ask God about it directly through prayer though.

I would also like to point out that I am not calling anyone a liar. The experiences that have been talked about in this thread, I am not saying they are untrue. I am only saying that the question can not be answered on biblical terms. Therefor, any type of scriptures thrown out that people are using mean nothing when compared to the question asked.

I'd like to add a little more here on the first thing you have said. I believe that the bible can answer questions about life. It teaches not just about salvation and heaven, but about morals. Morals are our key features in this world, and are very important. The Bible is very very important to our lives. Like I pointed out earlier though, it will not help with direct questions on subjects it is not involved with. It does give us the strength to live on and find these things out. In a way it is all very connected, but it's not gonna tell you the answers. I think this was a better way of explaining my view.

 

[dannibear]

The truth is these "ghosts" are not the spirits of men and women, but rather fallen angels masquerading as our loved ones.
If man believes that he becomes a ghost or is reincarnated at death, he will exclude the possibility of heaven as his eternal home and God as his Father.

I always felt ghosts weren't the souls of people that walked
the Earth because they are either in Heaven or Hell, Jesus
never talks about 'in between.'

EDIT: I found this also:

The belief in ghosts probably dates back several thousand years. People living at the time of Christ believed in them just as some people living today believe in them. This does not make them any more real. There were lying spirits then, and there are lying spirits now. Jesus never taught that ghosts were real, or that they were the spirits of our loved ones returning to visit us. To the contrary he taught that when we die we are either with God in heaven, or will be waiting final judgment (hell).

They talk about how the disciples think Jesus was a ghost when He walked on water.

 

[dannibear]

I don't claim to know much about this subject, but
I would like to bring 2 Corinthians 11:14 in here.
It seems to relate to this a lot.

 

[Fraction]

I always felt ghosts weren't the souls of people that walked
the Earth because they are either in Heaven or Hell, Jesus
never talks about 'in between.'

EDIT: I found this also:

They talk about how the disciples think Jesus was a ghost when He walked on water.

The Bible says nothing about an in between, whether there is one or isn't one. The events after death are debatable between peoples opinions and understandings of scripture. We can point out scriptures that talk about instantly going to heaven or hell. We can also point out ones that refer to the sleep/waiting method. Oh, and yes they thought Jesus was a ghost on a few occasions. However, it really only tells us their instant thought of seeing Jesus perform random miracles. Kind of like our response to some things in life "Whoa, what just happened?".

I don't claim to know much about this subject, but
I would like to bring 2 Corinthians 11:14 in here.
It seems to relate to this a lot.

The second time this verse is brought into this topic. I would like to ask you in a polite manner to read 2CO 11. It is not about ghosts, and has nothing to do with ghosts. It talks about how Satan tries to mask himself as an angel of light. This is something he is currently doing to deceive people and make them comfortable in sin. This is an active process, not direct action in a way. It also talks about his followers being false prophets and apostles. Just saying.

 

[Brother Mike]

sleep.. method??

and what scripture says we sleep in limbo somewhere???

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Sleep can also be dead..... those that have died in Jesus, God will bring with him... this does not denote some sleep method... To die, is to be with the Lord...

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed,

Some won't see death, but be changed.... Where is the wait and sleep theory..

1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

This Greek Word only means to sleep, as in go to bed sleep.

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

This Greek Word also means only sleep..as in Go to bed.

The events after death are debatable between peoples opinions

How is this debatable??? Paul said to die is to be with the Lord.. Our bodies will be resurrected later.. We have a family now in heaven...

These scriptures match perfectly what Paul said about being with the Lord..

Now produce your sleep wait method scriptures.... all you have done is talk about what others think, and how this is not there.. You ignored the fact that Man is appointed to die, then judgement... There are no human Ghost.... God tells us what happens to us when we die...

We don't come back... and have no share of anything under this sun.... I also gave you that scripture..

You do understand the method of comparing spiritual with spiritual.... and if Paul said to die is to be with the Lord, then all other scriptures come in perfect harmony.... It's not about other ignorant people debating anything...

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[dannibear]

How is this debatable??? Paul said to die is to be with the Lord.. Our bodies will be resurrected later.. We have a family now in heaven...

Exactly!

 

[dannibear]

The second time this verse is brought into this topic. I would like to ask you in a polite manner to read 2CO 11. It is not about ghosts, and has nothing to do with ghosts. It talks about how Satan tries to mask himself as an angel of light. This is something he is currently doing to deceive people and make them comfortable in sin. This is an active process, not direct action in a way. It also talks about his followers being false prophets and apostles. Just saying.

I posted about satan and the fallen angel acting like angels of light
in the post above mine.
He would like us to think that they are our loved ones.
Even I did for a while there, when I heard noises in the room where
my grandma's ashes lay, I thought 'It's grandma.' But then
I remembered, No, it can't be, she is in Heaven. She wouldn't need
anything here.

 

[Fraction]

and what scripture says we sleep in limbo somewhere???

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Sleep can also be dead..... those that have died in Jesus, God will bring with him... this does not denote some sleep method... To die, is to be with the Lord...

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed,

Some won't see death, but be changed.... Where is the wait and sleep theory..

1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

This Greek Word only means to sleep, as in go to bed sleep.

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

This Greek Word also means only sleep..as in Go to bed.

How is this debatable??? Paul said to die is to be with the Lord.. Our bodies will be resurrected later.. We have a family now in heaven...

These scriptures match perfectly what Paul said about being with the Lord..

Now produce your sleep wait method scriptures.... all you have done is talk about what others think, and how this is not there.. You ignored the fact that Man is appointed to die, then judgement... There are no human Ghost.... God tells us what happens to us when we die...

We don't come back... and have no share of anything under this sun.... I also gave you that scripture..

You do understand the method of comparing spiritual with spiritual.... and if Paul said to die is to be with the Lord, then all other scriptures come in perfect harmony.... It's not about other ignorant people debating anything...

Jesus Is Lord.

Sleep does mean death a lot of the times in the bible, I agree. You bring this up and you strictly call it death, but why is it not called just death? or bodily death? Why is the word sleep ever used? This is the flaw in your closed minded response.

There is no wait and sleep theory directly mention in the bible. However we do seen things happening to every single person living and dead in revelation. So the sleep or wait theory can't be completely dismissed. We could be sleeping or waiting in Christ, in heaven, in a box of twinkies, it doesn't matter.

The point is, is that the bible says nothing about an in between. It doesn't approve it or deny it. It gives us two events, and never describes them in great detail OR gives specific time frames. So whether you like it or not, you or scripture can not dismiss the sleep theory. Your theory and that one, both do the harmony thing you were talking about.

Careful with your words. You call people ignorant, and yet you turned and bent a scripture and try to make it about something else. Not to mention the fact that when you sit down and think about it, we are all ignorant, because there are things that we do not know. No one knows everything, not even you brother mike.

Im not defending theories, because I honestly don't care too much about minor non-important details. I am defending the right to be an individual and to have your own opinions and views. Your views will not be the same as someone elses. Your conclusions will not be the same either. All christians don't believe the same exact details. Does it matter? NO! They are just details. What matters is faith, which christians have. So before you call anyone ignorant, look in the mirror. Sit down and think. Remind yourself that YOU could very well be wrong.

No one knows the exact events after we die. We go to be with the lord, but in what way? Are ghosts explained? No. So it could be a dead spirit, or left over spiritual energy. The bible doesn't mention any type of spiritual energy or chi. So we just don't know. Bottom line. You can't prove anything. I can't either.

Show me the scripture where it strictly says "Once you die, your spirit immediately goes to a place called heaven. In addition there is no in between, they is no waiting, the process is instant". There are none. Just scriptures that give us two events, and puts them in a schedule. We'll find out when we die.

 

[Brother Mike]

Are we getting closer...

Sleep does mean death a lot of the times in the bible, I agree. You bring this up and you strictly call it death, but why is it not called just death? or bodily death? Why is the word sleep ever used? This is the flaw in your closed minded response.

I did not call it anything..... koimaō was translated as sleep... only one time was it used in one scripture as dead.....(1Co 7:39)
Much like our English term... "Laid to rest" Put to sleep...

Some translations use the word.. To die..... and the word has to be understood in the context of scripture..

However we do seen things happening to every single person living and dead in revelation. So the sleep or wait theory can't be completely dismissed. We could be sleeping or waiting in Christ, in heaven, in a box of twinkies, it doesn't matter.

Saints under the alter waiting on God.. fully awake and with God..
(Rev 6:9-11)

Great multitudes as large as nations at the throne of God.. with God and awake..
(Rev 7:9)

could you provide a scripture that may help the sleep theory... or have you been making this up the whole time???

we are all ignorant, because there are things that we do not know.

Something we do agree on...

No one knows the exact events after we die. We go to be with the lord, but in what way?...............Show me the scripture where it strictly says "Once you die, your spirit immediately goes to a place called heaven.

Jas 2:26 For as the human body apart from the spirit is lifeless, so faith apart from [its] works of obedience is also dead. .

2Co 5:8 [Yes] we have confident and hopeful courage and are pleased rather to be away from home out of the body and be at home with the Lord.

Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
We have family in Heaven... Unless some are walking around as Ghost of course.... sigh........

If you want to add (Or we can possibly walk around as Ghost after our spirit leaves our body) Go right ahead....




Jesus Is Lord....

 

[Fraction]

I did not call it anything..... koimaō was translated as sleep... only one time was it used in one scripture as dead.....(1Co 7:39)
Much like our English term... "Laid to rest" Put to sleep...

Some translations use the word.. To die..... and the word has to be understood in the context of scripture..




Saints under the alter waiting on God.. fully awake and with God..
(Rev 6:9-11)

Great multitudes as large as nations at the throne of God.. with God and awake..
(Rev 7:9)

could you provide a scripture that may help the sleep theory... or have you been making this up the whole time???



Something we do agree on...



Jas 2:26 For as the human body apart from the spirit is lifeless, so faith apart from [its] works of obedience is also dead. .

2Co 5:8 [Yes] we have confident and hopeful courage and are pleased rather to be away from home out of the body and be at home with the Lord.

Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
We have family in Heaven... Unless some are walking around as Ghost of course.... sigh........

If you want to add (Or we can possibly walk around as Ghost after our spirit leaves our body) Go right ahead....




Jesus Is Lord....

I admit to understanding exactly everything you say and all of your points are valid. I am in no way claiming that you are wrong, because who wouldn't exactly want this outcome? It is fantastic and beautiful. The sleep/wait theory holds some water, and the more popular theory of which we discuss holds more. Both are logical in their own way, which makes both possible. I have a whole lot of learning left to do, and i prefer to leave the details to God at the moment. lol However, I like to stay open to several views, opinions, and ideas. I don't enjoy defending ideas and things that I am not certain of, but instead I defend the fact that it may be a possibility. I hope you can understand my intentions, and understand that in no way am I calling anyone a liar or trying to make them feel like less. I simply respect the neutral playing field of knowledge gain and theory crafting.

When it comes to ghosts yet again, I will still say that there isn't an exact proof. I honestly highly doubt that God will permit a society of ghosts defined as human spirits to roam the earth. We have to understand that ghosts (fiction or non-fiction) are still unexplained things. They could be human spirits, but a lot of us (even myself) find that it is unlogical for God to have a society of spirits of humans wandering around. However, there are other explanations for these "ghosts". Such as spiritual energy, or another common term "chi". This type of thing does not violate things in the bible, and it is actually not of individual other religions. I myself do believe in spiritual energy that we have. I don't believe it is exactly what we see in things like fictional movies, books, or tv shows, but rather more spiritual like a life force that we have. "Ghosts" could be left over energy.

I may have came off as trying to challenge people and their opinions, which is wrong. Deep down I respect your opinions and views greatly. We are in this together, and we should all work forward to a common goal in every aspect of life. Therefor I apologize if I have offended anyone or came off as challenging. I only mean to get certain points across: That things could be possible, and some things have yet to be explained. I also made the point of how there are some things the bible cannot explain. This is merely the limitation of the book itself. After that limitation we have faith and control over our lives to find things out. In the end it IS thanks to Jesus Christ that we can explore the unknown and learn. These however, are simply my views, opinions, and points. It does not mean they are correct, strict, or 100% solid.

 

[Brother Mike]

Glad we got that sorted...

I may have came off as trying to challenge people and their opinions, which is wrong. Deep down I respect your opinions and views greatly.

I admit to understanding exactly everything you say and all of your points are valid.

Well, glad that is sorted... The Word is Spiritually discerned... I don't like breaking out Hebrew and Greek to understand something, but around here... you got to..

Spiritually discerned is you reading the Scripture and hearing in your Spirit by the Holy Ghost of "What seems right".... With evidence... does that seem right and in line with God.... The Holy Spirit helps us with that..

Also, you don't really want to take a "Who knows" opinion here because many know tons of scripture and you want people to take you serious when you really know that you do know something...

If people start to look at you as just someone that wants to keep a debate going or be in limbo somewhere on your stance on scripture you might miss someones trust here that really could have used your help and advice...

On this forum, I have several people that trust and read what I type and teach.. I am hard core "Word of Faith" doctrine here... Others think I believe in a false Doctrine... but nobody is confused on which side of the fence I am on...

Not everyone is designed for everyone, there is no such thing as the "BEST" teacher (But The Holy Spirit) but you can be more confident in your answers, and open the doors to be a blessing to someone that reads what you type, and needs the advice only you can give...

Your blessed. and thank you for the exercise in the word...

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[faithfulservant]

25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.

 

[Kit Carson]

Thanks. Very informative. Perhaps the Lord is leading me through healing process, but the reason I asked is actually because I was watching The World's Scariest Ghosts and I was wondering if the videos were real lol.

I will let the educated answer as they have done already about demons and those affairs.

I think if we trust God and believe in him, we do not have to worry about such things as they will never effect us. Do they exist, yes, I have seen one. That is a long story. But what I saw was not a ghost, it was for sure a demon.

Now lets use common sense. With these television shows and all the mystery.
Do they ever show you a ghost?? Well.........do they?? It is imagination and the game of mystery to make a dollar. Something invented to sell the show, to make you wonder and to sit on the edge of your chair to see the ghost.....but the ghost never appears.

They run around with little electric meters and so called spirit meters and the needle jumps a bit and they say.......See, see.....a ghost. Lol!

The television stuff is all make believe, a way to prey on your curious nature , to make you wonder and ultimately make money off the whole thing.

As for a real Demon, yes they exist, just hope you never have one enter your life, it is a very frightening thing. But if you do not challenge it and just run to God, it will go away.

Beware of the ones in religion also who make the same situations of mystery out of it all......they cast out demons of anger, sadness, depression, all manners of evil, they convince that person they have a demon and then cast it out.......and then pass the collection plate.......beware of those shysters too.

Real is real if you ever experience it, it is not something dangled just our of reach, with you sitting on the edge of your chair, waiting on that ghost that never does show up.

They have shows about Big Foot too........all the mystery.......but never any Big Foot..........by we have a big foot in our family, we do not have to look for it, my youngest son has big feet.........Lol!

Kit

 

[brakelite]

... I don't like breaking out Hebrew and Greek to understand something, but around here... you got to..

Perhaps you would care to do that with regards the Hebrew words for 'soul' and 'spirit', and then explain how either one or the other somehow become living entities in their own right in heaven?