Are there people who are too wicked to love?

[littlelight]

please disregard that last post

the Lord loves everyone, and wishes that none should perish. forgive me for posting so hastily, bless you all : )

 

[Jaareshiah]

From the inception of the rebellion in the Garden of Eden (Gen 3:1-6), our Creator, Jehovah God, recognized that from that moment onward, that two distinct groups of people would arise (1) those who firmly support God's rulership as the "woman's seed" and (2) those who throw their support for the "serpent", becoming his "seed".(Gen 3:15)

The apostle Peter wrote, after having showed that the vast majority suffered "destruction" when (the earth ) was deluged with water", then said that "Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance."(2 Pet 3:9)

However, Peter now says, that just as at the global flood that came "as a thief " and wiped almost all of mankind in 2370 B.C.E., that in the near future "Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens (human political governments and institutions that people "look" up to) will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements (human philosophy and other fundamental things that gives the world its ungodly characteristics, reflecting the mind of Satan) being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth (wicked human society that look to the political "heavens") and the works in it will be discovered (or "found out" as being in opposition to Jehovah)."(2 Pet 3:10)

Those who mocked Noah at the time of the global flood were deemed as incorrigible, worthy of destruction. These proved to be of the "serpent's seed", following Satan. On the other hand, Noah and his family gave evidence of genuine faith in Jehovah God by obediently building the ark over possibly 40 to 50 years until the day came when "all the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened."(Gen 7:11)

Thus, God's love is not unconditional, but rather has conditions attached to it. Noah obeyed and "did just so" as Jehovah told him.(Gen 6:22) Jesus, quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5, said: "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ "(Matt 22:37)

Jesus further said to "go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."(Matt 7:13, 14) The vast majority today, just as during Noah's day, have rejected God's direction of guidance (in great part because the religious leaders have caused their "flock" to stray, Jer 10:21; 23:1)

Thus, there is a wide chasm between those who serve Jehovah God and those who do not, between the "few" that will ' find life' and the "many" that will be wiped off the face of the earth.(Prov 2:21, 22) In the near future, when the "great day of God the Almighty" has arrived (Rev 16:14), only those "marked for survival" will retain life.(Eze 9)

 

[Strypes]

Jaareshiah,

I really dislike reading the New World Translation (Jehovah's witnesses bible) passages you post.

Tiz true...


Were you aware that "Jehovah" is comprised of letters from one word (Yahweh) and the vowels of another (Adoni)?
(Historical fact)


Anyway.. God loves us all. John 3:16 is clear, Jesus died on the cross for "whosoever" and that includes all of us. For we all are sinners in need of God's grace.

 

[Jaareshiah]

Jaareshiah,

I really dislike reading the New World Translation (Jehovah's witnesses bible) passages you post.

Tiz true...


Were you aware that "Jehovah" is comprised of letters from one word (Yahweh) and the vowels of another (Adoni)?
(Historical fact)


Anyway.. God loves us all. John 3:16 is clear, Jesus died on the cross for "whosoever" and that includes all of us. For we all are sinners in need of God's grace.

Are you aware that all the personal names in the Hebrew Scriptures, commonly called the Old Testament, are possibly not accurate, due to ancient Hebrew having no vowels, but only 22 consonants ? The reader had to supply the vowel sounds from his knowledge of the language. Hebrew writing was like an abbreviated text, as for example when a black basalt stone was found near the city of ancient Dan in northern Galilee in 1993, with the letters "bytdwd", that was unveiled as meaning "House of David". (Biblical Archaeology Review, March/April 1994)

Thus, such ones as Jeremiah, Joseph, Jethro, etc are not real Hebrew names but are Latin, just as the name Jesus is Latin (as is Jehovah) of the Greek I·e·sous´and corresponds to the Hebrew Ye·shu´a‛ or Yehoh·shu´a‛ that means “Jehovah Is Salvation”.

Rather than sticking with the OP (original post), you go out of your way to attack Jehovah's Witnesses and not provide any meaningful, detailed Scriptural information. Please stick with the OP.

 

[amadeus2]

Thus, God's love is not unconditional, but rather has conditions attached to it. Noah obeyed and "did just so" as Jehovah told him.(Gen 6:22) Jesus, quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5, said: "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ "(Matt 22:37)

Is it really true that God does not love sinners, who have not yet repented that first time? Did Jesus hate Judas? Did he not treat Judas the same as the other 11 original apostles? Even when it becomes clear as we read through the gospels that Jesus knews what Judas was going to do, was Jesus not filled with compassion and, yes, love toward this man who Jesus knew was going to betray him? Even if you do not believe that Jesus is God, you surely cannot deny that Jesus did the Father's (the One you call Jehovah God) will in everything... even when it would result in pain and suffering for himself (Matt 26:39-45).

Did not God love people and provide for them the basic essentials of natural life, even though many of them would never acknowledge Him? He loved them. They were His creations, His creatures. If He did not love them then what does this verse mean?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

This doesn't mean that He loved the planet earth on which men dwell. Doesn't it mean rather that God loved the vessels, which you and I are. We, you and I, each of us, are self-contained little worlds given the option of going God's Way, or of going our own ways. He loves us, but the reward of eternal Life (real Life, not the place of condemnation of a mortal man who does not know God) is for those who choose Him rather than themselves. God wants us to choose Him, but He wants us to decide to do so when we have another choice. He really does loves us before we have made such a choice.

 

[Jaareshiah]

Is it really true that God does not love sinners, who have not yet repented that first time? Did Jesus hate Judas? Did he not treat Judas the same as the other 11 original apostles? Even when it becomes clear as we read through the gospels that Jesus knews what Judas was going to do, was Jesus not filled with compassion and, yes, love toward this man who Jesus knew was going to betray him? Even if you do not believe that Jesus is God, you surely cannot deny that Jesus did the Father's (the One you call Jehovah God) will in everything... even when it would result in pain and suffering for himself (Matt 26:39-45).

Did not God love people and provide for them the basic essentials of natural life, even though many of them would never acknowledge Him? He loved them. They were His creations, His creatures. If He did not love them then what does this verse mean?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

This doesn't mean that He loved the planet earth on which men dwell. Doesn't it mean rather that God loved the vessels, which you and I are. We, you and I, each of us, are self-contained little worlds given the option of going God's Way, or of going our own ways. He loves us, but the reward of eternal Life (real Life, not the place of condemnation of a mortal man who does not know God) is for those who choose Him rather than themselves. God wants us to choose Him, but He wants us to decide to do so when we have another choice. He really does loves us before we have made such a choice.

Jesus said that "God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."(John 3:16) He further contrasted individuals who assisted his "brothers" with those who failed in doing this, saying that "these (not assisting Jesus spiritual brothers) will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones (who assisted Jesus spiritual brothers) into everlasting life.”(Matt 25:46) Hence, only those who exercise faith in Jehovah God, are given everlasting life.

Judas Iscariot failed in his love for God and his Son, Jesus, treasuring money as more important.(John 12:6) Jesus, in prayer to God, called Judas Iscariot "the son of destruction".(John 17:12) Jehovah's love is therefore not unconditional, but requires what Jesus said in quoting from Deuteronomy 6:4, 5: "The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’ "(Mark 12:29, 30)

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said that "few" would gain life, whereas the vast majority would perish in the near future.(Matt 7:13, 14) Most are unwilling to measure up to Jehovah's holy standards, setting their standards of what they feel is right or wrong, just as Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden, costing them their life.(Gen 3:1-6)

Because the Jews failed to measure up to God's laws he established as their Creator, he destroyed the 10 tribe kingdom of Israel in 740 B.C.E. and then 133 years later, the 2 tribe kingdom of Judah in 607 B.C.E.

And then when Jesus was on earth, three days before he was put to death on a torture stake, he looked at Jerusalem as what was once the center of pure worship, now saying: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But you people did not want it. Look! Your house is abandoned to you. For I say to you, you will by no means see me from henceforth until you say (at Ps 118:26), ‘Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s name!’” (Matt 23:37-39)

Jesus, in answering the question "Lord, are those who are being saved few?", says to "exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."(Luke 13:23, 24)

Thence, in the near future, at the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" (Rev 16:14), the vast majority of mankind, after having been put to death by Jesus and the heavenly armies (Rev 19:11-16), will become a "feast" to "all the birds that fly in midheaven", called "the great evening meal of God".(Rev 19:17)

These will feast on "the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”(Rev 19:18)

And of the name of God, Jehovah, it is found in the original Hebrew almost 7000 times. Because the churches of Christendom have removed his name from their Bibles, he personally will deal with them, bringing them down to Gehenna.

 

[Strypes]

Are you aware that all the personal names in the Hebrew Scriptures, commonly called the Old Testament, are possibly not accurate, due to ancient Hebrew having no vowels, but only 22 consonants ? The reader had to supply the vowel sounds from his knowledge of the language. Hebrew writing was like an abbreviated text, as for example when a black basalt stone was found near the city of ancient Dan in northern Galilee in 1993, with the letters "bytdwd", that was unveiled as meaning "House of David". (Biblical Archaeology Review, March/April 1994)

Thus, such ones as Jeremiah, Joseph, Jethro, etc are not real Hebrew names but are Latin, just as the name Jesus is Latin (as is Jehovah) of the Greek I·e·sous´and corresponds to the Hebrew Ye·shu´a‛ or Yehoh·shu´a‛ that means “Jehovah Is Salvation”.

Rather than sticking with the OP (original post), you go out of your way to attack Jehovah's Witnesses and not provide any meaningful, detailed Scriptural information. Please stick with the OP.

Did you know that the New World Translation is not available in the Greek language because the people of Greece were picking out the heresies in the Watchtowers not so very well translated bible?

BTW get used to me challenging the false doctrines you are posting on "Talk Jesus". Most here are not aware of the true nature of your mind control cult, but I am.

As for the opening post..

According to Watchtower doctrine, "Jehovah"(the mean spirited tyrant false god of the Jehovah's witnesses) only "approves" of baptized Jehovah's witnesses IN GOOD STANDING in their congregations as determined by judicial committees backed by Bethel who protect pedophiles (27 Million to the girl in California who PROVED IT will come from the world wide work funds which has defended "Jehovah's good name" by funding pedophiles defense attorneys for decades. . As you are on what they consider a site in league with satan, (yep, all Christians are considered in league with satan because the Jehovah's witnesses believe ONLY THEY have the truth and all of us born-agains are of satan's seed)...

That means you are spiritually weak and are in danger of dying at Armageddon. (according to your religion)..

Fear and condemnation are just a few of the mind control tricks they employ to keep the rank and file in line to protect their free labor source for their publishing company.

I am reminded of another Casting Crowns song...

"But the voice of Truth tells me a different story
The voice of Truth says "Do not be afraid"...

1 John 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. 19 We love because he first loved us. 20 If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother. "

How many of your family are you shunning? How many are shunning you? Are you made to sit on the back row at the Kingdom Hall? Do you shun those that are? Are you seeking the approval of men or just afraid that if you question any of their doctrines your mother will consider you as dead and all the "friends" too?

 

[Strypes]

Link is to a Huffington post article regarding the 28 million dollar (I was off by one million) judgment against the Watchtower.

link was to be given as supporting evidence

Actually, I am not going to post the link as I am not sure if you can post links on this site and the subject matter may be too "adult" for some readers on this site.

Google "Candace Conti" and you can see for yourself what I said is true. There are also videos on youtube too.

7 million was awarded PLUS 21 million in punitive damages. It is the largest single victim award against a religious organization.

The reason we know about it is because Candace Conti could not be bribed and silenced. Most all of the thousands of other pedophile cases litigated by the Watchtower were settled out of court with a gag order provision. The victims are the ones shunned by the Jehovah's Witness Organization (two witness rule) and the pedophiles are protected.

Nightline did a special a few years back. Google Barbara Anderson and you should be able to find it. Additionally there are hundreds of testimonies of the victims of the watchtower on youtube. Most are atheist now due to the spiritual abuse (in addition to the sexual and physical abuse)..

 

[Strypes]

A couple of other questions..

Have you noticed an increase in request for funding the world wide work?

Did you go to the recent convention where they vigorously stressed using only their resources?
(information control: another means your mind control cult uses to suppress it's members)

One final question.. do you have children who go off with other members and if you do, do you know whether or not they are on the pedophile list that is kept secret by the governing body?


1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[Strypes]

Back to the main topic of this thread..

Romans 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."

 

[Strypes]

And of the name of God, Jehovah, it is found in the original Hebrew almost 7000 times. Because the churches of Christendom have removed his name from their Bibles, he personally will deal with them, bringing them down to Gehenna.

The name "Jehovah" is found in the original Hebrew ZERO TIMES.


While it is almost if not quite certain that the Name was originally pronounced "Yahweh," this pronunciation was not indicated when the Masoretes added vowel signs to the consonantal Hebrew text. (The Masoretes (ba'alei hamasorah, Hebrew בעלי המסורה) were groups of mostly Karaite scribes and scholars working between the 7th and 11th centuries AD)

To the four consonants YHWH of the Name, which had come to be regarded as too sacred to be pronounced, they attached vowel signs indicating that in its place should be read the Hebrew word Adonai meaning "Lord" (or Elohim meaning "God"). The ancient Greek translators substituted the word Kyrios (Lord) for the Name. The Vulgate likewise used the Latin word Dominus. The form "Jehovah" is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes but belonging to an entirely different word. The sound of Y is represented by J and the sound of W by V, as in Latin. The word "Jehovah" does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew; and (2) the use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom He had to be distinguished, was discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era

 

[Strypes]

I wish to respond to what Jaareshiah said on the previous page regarding the "ones that helped"..

Here is the passage in context...


Matthew 25: 31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?' 40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.' 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' 45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


So do Jehovah's witnesses help others? That would be a resounding NO.

Giving someone a magazine full of false doctrines is not the same as providing food, clothes, care etc.

There is no provision in the Kingdom Halls for any help to the poor. Not even to the ones in their own congregations. They are instructed to give to the World Wide Work (better known as the pedophile defense fund).

Jehovah's Witnesses are FORBIDDEN to give to the Red Cross/ Salvation Army or any charitable organization that helps the poor and needy in any way (because Christian Charities are in league with satan according to the Watchtower). In several European countries the tax exempt status of the Jehovah's witnesses is being challenged as they provide NO support to charitable causes and therefore their own "charitable" status could soon be denied.


Ironically, because the Watchtower discourages higher education, their members are frequently in financial hardship and they get help from the very organizations that they demonize. Tiz True.

 

[littlelight]

Dear Friends,

I sincerely wish that I had never posted this topic, and I wish there were a way to take the post down entirely. Forgive me for posting, I have been having a difficult time.

Over the last few years I"ve been concentrating my efforts intensely on seeking the Lord, bettering myself, and really trying to make something out of what He has given me in this life. During this time I have been blessed to be away from the mainstream world, and it has been something I have dearly needed. However the time has come for me to go back into the workforce, and it seems that while I have been away the world has changed more than I realized.

I posted this because I have been working in a place where common decency, or even common sense, seem to be things foreign to the people I have been working with. I have never been anywhere where the grace of the Lord hasn't sustained me, no matter how dark the circumstances, yet recently I was in a place where not only was common decency unwelcome, it seemed anything to do with it was punished more than it was welcome. My original intent on posting this thread was to discuss whether or not there are places where we just shouldn't work... it seemed there was nothing I could do to survive in this recent environment, and no matter what honest hearted intentions I had, everything was turned around and used against me, literally seeming like that scripture that warns to "cast not your pearls... and give not that which is holy... lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" (Matt 7:6).

This was a personal struggle, one I should not have posted about in a public forum, and I do very much hope you'll all forgive me for posting. While I do think that the Word is there to warn us, and do keep us safe in some situations, it is not for any of us to judge and we must focus more on being love to the world more than anything else. There is enough good in this amazing Savior of ours to speak of that good alone for the rest of our days : ) and I know I'd rather read a post that gives example of that love than I would ever enjoy watching folks bicker.

Again, forgive me for posting. If anyone knows how to take down a post please let me know!

 

[Strypes]

Dear Friends,

I sincerely wish that I had never posted this topic, and I wish there were a way to take the post down entirely. Forgive me for posting, I have been having a difficult time.

Over the last few years I"ve been concentrating my efforts intensely on seeking the Lord, bettering myself, and really trying to make something out of what He has given me in this life. During this time I have been blessed to be away from the mainstream world, and it has been something I have dearly needed. However the time has come for me to go back into the workforce, and it seems that while I have been away the world has changed more than I realized.

I posted this because I have been working in a place where common decency, or even common sense, seem to be things foreign to the people I have been working with. I have never been anywhere where the grace of the Lord hasn't sustained me, no matter how dark the circumstances, yet recently I was in a place where not only was common decency unwelcome, it seemed anything to do with it was punished more than it was welcome. My original intent on posting this thread was to discuss whether or not there are places where we just shouldn't work... it seemed there was nothing I could do to survive in this recent environment, and no matter what honest hearted intentions I had, everything was turned around and used against me, literally seeming like that scripture that warns to "cast not your pearls... and give not that which is holy... lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" (Matt 7:6).

This was a personal struggle, one I should not have posted about in a public forum, and I do very much hope you'll all forgive me for posting. While I do think that the Word is there to warn us, and do keep us safe in some situations, it is not for any of us to judge and we must focus more on being love to the world more than anything else. There is enough good in this amazing Savior of ours to speak of that good alone for the rest of our days : ) and I know I'd rather read a post that gives example of that love than I would ever enjoy watching folks bicker.

Again, forgive me for posting. If anyone knows how to take down a post please let me know!

I can understand the troubles you have had as many of us have endured the hardship of working with people who dishonor (and even mock) God. Do your job well and realize there are those that will bait you into religious argument. Always remember in such situations to rely on the Holy Spirit to give you the words to say. There are times when you should not take their bait. When ever possible avoid vain arguments.

I know that seems hypocritical coming from one that challenges Jehovah's witnesses (vain argument). I did not get to read your original post before you edited it. What I read was Jaareshiah promoting the Watchtower's false doctrines and it is my calling to call them out and expose them when ever I can. I am sorry it had to be in your thread. The Jehovah's witness organization is a mind control cult. It is a very dangerous cult.

I hope you can overcome the troubles you are having at work. Remember Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit to be our comforter and to lead us. You are not alone in your suffering. Do your job well and trust God. He will work it out even if that means you will find a new job. Don't let anyone steal your joy.


Colossians 3: 23 Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. 25 For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality.

 

[littlelight]

this is excellent advice Strypes : ) I am learning wisdom the hard way, here I was so excited to go into the working world with a new degree and a few years with the Lord under my belt! I was excited to be equipped to create positive situations and do good work. Quite the wake up call to see the way the world changed while I was away... it will keep you on your toes! At the end of the day I'm just so thankful to have a reason to smile, a reason to hope, a reason to love : )

 

[Furious_Love]

Blessings. I would like to address this topic, shame i was not here from the start.

Are there people who are too wicked to love?

(Matthew 7:11a). If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children,(b) how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

let me flip this verse on its head as to elaborate the meaning of it the way that God has shown me.

My father was evil personified, his evil knew no boundaries, yet on the other hand he could show affection that would dimish and make you forget for a while the corrupt life he lead. This is fitting of Matthew 7:11 and fitted my earthly father to a ‘T’. I could even go as far as to conclude his actions were typical of Trauma based mind control. In my opinion he was more than the typical Sociopath as he was so calculated having every move planned with a contingency plan (s).

If I had not been touched by the hand of God that would cause reason not to love this evil man, it would backup your original opening statement. Is it hard to love someone who is wicked/evil? Of course it is, you would be quite naive to believe you could love someone who is evil.

God hates evil;

(Psa 97:10) Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

(Amos 5:15a) Hate the evil, and love the good.

Jesus said in (John 3:20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Evil people are treacherous, deceitful and self centered and will go to great lengths to cover up their deeds to even hurting and threatening others to keep their persona intact. Their life is based upon lie upon lie. They hate the truth.

Part b of Matthew 7:11 is one of the keys to loving evil people. God just doesn’t go ‘poof’ now you can love. It is by degree and by asking God to free you to do so. It was a number of years before the forgiveness I wanted to give my father became a reality. You must first be willing to do so. Ask and it shall be given. Only Jesus can do this. He does all as He promised and more. My tears at my fathers funeral were of pity and Love. God had turned my hate into a love I really could not understand. Five years ago he died and just yesterday I shed some tears for him just thinking what he missed out on. I could not love him by my own strength. It was the Lord who had enabled that because in my own strength I am no different than any humanist.

It is difficult to love an evil person, yet not by my own strength.

 

[littlelight]

fallen, i'm so sorry to hear what you had to go through, but so happy to what you were able to do to overcome it; that is sooooo awesome.

i just learned this last year what it means to be allowed to love/forgive someone not based on my own strength, i struggled with some of the situations in my family for many many years. it is true what they say about forgiveness, that by forgiving others you're really freeing yourself. it was extremely liberating, it's a process that's not finished yet and i'm learning more and more about freedom everyday. it's so foreign after living tangled up in hurt and fear for so long, it's like a completely different world.

i wish i could say that i passed this most recent test but unfortunately i didn't. i had started a new job but it didn't work out in the long run. i wasn't able to learn enough to just be able to do my work, and no matter how many times i pulled myself up by the bootstraps and just went in with a smile, it never changed things enough for me get enough of a grasp on the position to keep my work separate from some of the questionable things going on around me... unfortunately i gave up. that was the original reason for this post though.

thanks so much for sharing with me : ) it's so amazing that no matter where we're from, or how different our lives seem, He's always the same and works the same way in our hearts and lives. it is so valuable to me to be able to learn from others, thank you for the insights you shared, they mean a lot ☺

 

[amadeus2]

I am afraid what you have done is applied a man-like description to God. You are presuming that God really does not love those who are unsaved until if and when they love Him.

"We love him, because he first loved us." I John 4:19

Jesus said that "God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."(John 3:16) He further contrasted individuals who assisted his "brothers" with those who failed in doing this, saying that "these (not assisting Jesus spiritual brothers) will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones (who assisted Jesus spiritual brothers) into everlasting life.”(Matt 25:46) Hence, only those who exercise faith in Jehovah God, are given everlasting life.

Judas Iscariot failed in his love for God and his Son, Jesus, treasuring money as more important.(John 12:6) Jesus, in prayer to God, called Judas Iscariot "the son of destruction".(John 17:12) Jehovah's love is therefore not unconditional, but requires what Jesus said in quoting from Deuteronomy 6:4"The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’ "(Mark 12:29, 30)

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said that "few" would gain life, whereas the vast majority would perish in the near future.(Matt 7:13, 14) Most are unwilling to measure up to Jehovah's holy standards, setting their standards of what they feel is right or wrong, just as Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden, costing them their life.(Gen 3:1-6)

Because the Jews failed to measure up to God's laws he established as their Creator, he destroyed the 10 tribe kingdom of Israel in 740 B.C.E. and then 133 years later, the 2 tribe kingdom of Judah in 607 B.C.E.

And then when Jesus was on earth, three days before he was put to death on a torture stake, he looked at Jerusalem as what was once the center of pure worship, now saying: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But you people did not want it. Look! Your house is abandoned to you. For I say to you, you will by no means see me from henceforth until you say (at Ps 118:26), ‘Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s name!’” (Matt 23:37-39)

Jesus, in answering the question "Lord, are those who are being saved few?", says to "exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."(Luke 13:23, 24)

Thence, in the near future, at the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" (Rev 16:14), the vast majority of mankind, after having been put to death by Jesus and the heavenly armies (Rev 19:11-16), will become a "feast" to "all the birds that fly in midheaven", called "the great evening meal of God".(Rev 19:17)

These will feast on "the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”(Rev 19:18)

And of the name of God, Jehovah, it is found in the original Hebrew almost 7000 times. Because the churches of Christendom have removed his name from their Bibles, he personally will deal with them, bringing them down to Gehenna.

 

[amadeus2]

Over the last few years I"ve been concentrating my efforts intensely on seeking the Lord, bettering myself, and really trying to make something out of what He has given me in this life. During this time I have been blessed to be away from the mainstream world, and it has been something I have dearly needed. However the time has come for me to go back into the workforce, and it seems that while I have been away the world has changed more than I realized.

Unfortunately, the world around us continues to change in a very negative direction, but that is the way of the flesh. Every person from the start is spiritually dead and is moving quickly toward a death of the flesh as well. But... those who believe in Jesus have had something sown in them that need never die.

littlelight: I posted this because I have been working in a place where common decency, or even common sense, seem to be things foreign to the people I have been working with. I have never been anywhere where the grace of the Lord hasn't sustained me, no matter how dark the circumstances, yet recently I was in a place where not only was common decency unwelcome, it seemed anything to do with it was punished more than it was welcome. My original intent on posting this thread was to discuss whether or not there are places where we just shouldn't work... it seemed there was nothing I could do to survive in this recent environment, and no matter what honest hearted intentions I had, everything was turned around and used against me, literally seeming like that scripture that warns to "cast not your pearls... and give not that which is holy... lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" (Matt 7:6).

The places you need to go and the places you need to steer clear of should be in accord with God's will for you. Remember that the Body of Christ is to have many members and while they are all to be submitted to the Head (Jesus) they are separate members with separate functions. Jesus is the Master whose voice we need to learn to recognize so that we can know what we are to do in every difficulty that comes before us. We may not have the answers ahead of time, but Jesus always knows. The best thing for you, and for each of us, to do is keep on seeking first the first things (Matt 6:33) and He will keep adding to us just what we need. What we need is only always known by God. If you learn to always trust Him, He will never fail you in anything that He knows is necessary. Don't make the mistake of deciding for Him what is necessary for you.

Give God the glory!

 

[Jaareshiah]

Link is to a Huffington post article regarding the 28 million dollar (I was off by one million) judgment against the Watchtower.

link was to be given as supporting evidence

Actually, I am not going to post the link as I am not sure if you can post links on this site and the subject matter may be too "adult" for some readers on this site.

Google "Candace Conti" and you can see for yourself what I said is true. There are also videos on youtube too.

7 million was awarded PLUS 21 million in punitive damages. It is the largest single victim award against a religious organization.

The reason we know about it is because Candace Conti could not be bribed and silenced. Most all of the thousands of other pedophile cases litigated by the Watchtower were settled out of court with a gag order provision. The victims are the ones shunned by the Jehovah's Witness Organization (two witness rule) and the pedophiles are protected.

Nightline did a special a few years back. Google Barbara Anderson and you should be able to find it. Additionally there are hundreds of testimonies of the victims of the watchtower on youtube. Most are atheist now due to the spiritual abuse (in addition to the sexual and physical abuse)..

The New World Translation is available in the Greek language that was released in 1997. And of the court case in California, this is being appealed, for Jehovah's Witnesses are not to blame what a Jonathan Kendrick supposedly did to a Condace Conti in her younger years, since there is in place guidelines to deal with such situations.

I knew personally someone (had known him for some 30 years) who called himself one of Jehovah's Witnesses who molested a young child locally. Jehovah's Witnesses were not blamed for it but rather he was the one that committed this criminal act and found guilty and was dealt with by going to prison until he died at 62 years old some 10 years ago.

Just as Jehovah God cannot be faulted for what Satan did nor the masses of mankind that have immeasurably broken his moral laws over the course of human history, so in this case, the guilty person must answer for what he has done. Have you not read where a father was not to be blamed for what the son did and vise-versa at Ezekiel 18:20 which says: "A son himself will bear nothing because of the error of the father, and a father himself will bear nothing because of the error of the son. Upon his own self the very righteousness of the righteous one will come to be, and upon his own self the very wickedness of a wicked one will come to be."

Furthermore, have you not read at James 1, whereby it says that "each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death."(James 1:14, 15) Each person is accountable for their own actions, and if a person is found guilty of child molestation, the appropriate authorities are contacted.

As J. R. Brown, a spokesman at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses, commented: “The fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child abuse and strive to protect children from such acts is well-known. The individual members of any organization must ultimately bear the responsibility for their own actions, particularly when the acts are so flagrantly against the morals and principles of the organization and society.”