Are there people who are too wicked to love?

[littlelight]

I still don't think anyone is understanding the original intent of this post (not your fault, I edited it and took it down). Everytime I reread the title it hurts my eyes and I am ashamed... still wish there was a way to take it down.

 

[Jaareshiah]

I am afraid what you have done is applied a man-like description to God. You are presuming that God really does not love those who are unsaved until if and when they love Him.

"We love him, because he first loved us." I John 4:19

Moses told the nation of Israel just before entering the land of Canaan: "See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. If you will listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God, which I am commanding you today, so as to love Jehovah your God, to walk in his ways and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will be bound to keep alive.......But if your heart turns away and you do not listen, and you are actually seduced and bow down to other gods and serve them, I do tell you today that you will positively perish. You will not lengthen your days on the ground to which you are crossing the Jordan to go to take possession of it. I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God."(Deut 30:15-20)

Hence, Jehovah God is placing before everyone the opportunity for life, but sadly most reject his offer.(Matt 7:13) Jesus said that "just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."(Matt 24:37-39)

During this time period that we are personally seeing, Jesus (invisible) "presence" that began in 1914 with his installation as king of God's kingdom, most would be busy with the mundane affairs of life, getting married, raising a family, but never recognizing the time frame of Jesus "presence" that he paralleled to "the days of Noah", taking "no note" that conditions on all fronts are changing.

 

[amadeus2]

I am not disagreeing with the curses, which are also part of scripture. My point was simply that God does love us first, before we really know what it even means to love Him. The was the only part of your post I addressed. YOu seemed to be saying that we must love God before He would love us and that I believe is contrary to scripture. Of course, you have your opinion. Would you care to explain what I John 4:19 means if you believe that it does not mean what I have stated?

Moses told the nation of Israel just before entering the land of Canaan: "See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. If you will listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God, which I am commanding you today, so as to love Jehovah your God, to walk in his ways and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will be bound to keep alive.......But if your heart turns away and you do not listen, and you are actually seduced and bow down to other gods and serve them, I do tell you today that you will positively perish. You will not lengthen your days on the ground to which you are crossing the Jordan to go to take possession of it. I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God."(Deut 30:15-20)

Hence, Jehovah God is placing before everyone the opportunity for life, but sadly most reject his offer.(Matt 7:13) Jesus said that "just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."(Matt 24:37-39)

During this time period that we are personally seeing, Jesus (invisible) "presence" that began in 1914 with his installation as king of God's kingdom, most would be busy with the mundane affairs of life, getting married, raising a family, but never recognizing the time frame of Jesus "presence" that he paralleled to "the days of Noah", taking "no note" that conditions on all fronts are changing.

 

[amadeus2]

I still don't think anyone is understanding the original intent of this post (not your fault, I edited it and took it down). Everytime I reread the title it hurts my eyes and I am ashamed... still wish there was a way to take it down.

Just keep your "littlelight" from God shining! God will forgive you for any errors made and anyone who really loves God will as well.

 

[Strypes]

The New World Translation is available in the Greek language that was released in 1997. And of the court case in California, this is being appealed, for Jehovah's Witnesses are not to blame what a Jonathan Kendrick supposedly did to a Condace Conti in her younger years, since there is in place guidelines to deal with such situations.

I knew personally someone (had known him for some 30 years) who called himself one of Jehovah's Witnesses who molested a young child locally. Jehovah's Witnesses were not blamed for it but rather he was the one that committed this criminal act and found guilty and was dealt with by going to prison until he died at 62 years old some 10 years ago.

Just as Jehovah God cannot be faulted for what Satan did nor the masses of mankind that have immeasurably broken his moral laws over the course of human history, so in this case, the guilty person must answer for what he has done. Have you not read where a father was not to be blamed for what the son did and vise-versa at Ezekiel 18:20 which says: "A son himself will bear nothing because of the error of the father, and a father himself will bear nothing because of the error of the son. Upon his own self the very righteousness of the righteous one will come to be, and upon his own self the very wickedness of a wicked one will come to be."

Furthermore, have you not read at James 1, whereby it says that "each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death."(James 1:14, 15) Each person is accountable for their own actions, and if a person is found guilty of child molestation, the appropriate authorities are contacted.

As J. R. Brown, a spokesman at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses, commented: “The fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child abuse and strive to protect children from such acts is well-known. The individual members of any organization must ultimately bear the responsibility for their own actions, particularly when the acts are so flagrantly against the morals and principles of the organization and society.”

You knew someone for over thirty years and they were a child molester and you never suspected it?

Found guilty by whom? A judicial committee? That would mean he would have to confess to it correct? Then the authorities would be contacted (only then in a mandatory reporting state as the elders prime directive is to "protect" Jehovah's good name).

If he denied it and the child did not have TWO WITNESSES to the act, the man would be given the benefit of the doubt based on Watchtower doctrine and according to your statement above.. THE AUTHORITIES WOULD NOT BE NOTIFIED.. The child would be shamed and shunned for making the accusation (without two witnesses) AND if she (or he) was not repentant (for reporting the child molester in violation of the two witness rule), they would be considered "no longer one of Jehovah's witnesses" and an announcement would be made from the platform that they were disfellowshipped. (like excommunication in the Catholic church)..

The Molester..He would still be considered "IN GOOD STANDING" as long as he maintained his innocence he would be allowed free reign to molest again and again...... and again... for decades.

The governing body would be contacted as well as their lawyers and his name would be put on the list of suspected pedophiles at Bethel. The authorities would not be contacted, the parents of children having contact with the molester would remain clueless (as clueless as you with your thirty year friendship with one) and the child most likely would commit suicide and if they did survive the shunning, they would be forever scarred by the physical, emotional and spiritual abuse.

In the Conti case, the elders in the congregation knew of his history as a child molester, he was on the list at Bethel and they never let the parents know and Candace was molested repeatedly for several years. THAT is the reason for the 21 million dollar PUNITIVE damages against the Watchtower Corp.

Candice Conti refused to settle out of court and sign a non-disclosure. She wanted the world to know what they did to her.

It is kinda like the Watchtower's Hell Doctrine (They deny the existence of Hell)...

You can say it ain't so, but that doesn't change the truth.

 

[Strypes]

I bet there are a lot of things you don't know about your religion.

why? because you are not supposed to do any research on your own.. according to your religion that would be "prideful". The only source you are allowed to check is THEIR publications.

Use the brain God gave you and think for yourself and realized the truth about "the truth" **

**Jehovah's Witnesses believe only they have "the Truth" and call the organization "the truth" ie if you wanted to leave their cult they would say that you have "left the truth".

 

[Strypes]

I still don't think anyone is understanding the original intent of this post (not your fault, I edited it and took it down). Everytime I reread the title it hurts my eyes and I am ashamed... still wish there was a way to take it down.

Little Light,

You started this thread so only you can have it changed. I would suggest you contact Chad and maybe he could change the name to something like "The world is full of wicked people"

 

[littlelight]

I didn't realize that I could do that, I was under the imnpression that it isn't possible to take things down once they're posted. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Jaareshiah]

You knew someone for over thirty years and they were a child molester and you never suspected it?

Found guilty by whom? A judicial committee? That would mean he would have to confess to it correct? Then the authorities would be contacted (only then in a mandatory reporting state as the elders prime directive is to "protect" Jehovah's good name).

If he denied it and the child did not have TWO WITNESSES to the act, the man would be given the benefit of the doubt based on Watchtower doctrine and according to your statement above.. THE AUTHORITIES WOULD NOT BE NOTIFIED.. The child would be shamed and shunned for making the accusation (without two witnesses) AND if she (or he) was not repentant (for reporting the child molester in violation of the two witness rule), they would be considered "no longer one of Jehovah's witnesses" and an announcement would be made from the platform that they were disfellowshipped. (like excommunication in the Catholic church)..

The Molester..He would still be considered "IN GOOD STANDING" as long as he maintained his innocence he would be allowed free reign to molest again and again...... and again... for decades.

The governing body would be contacted as well as their lawyers and his name would be put on the list of suspected pedophiles at Bethel. The authorities would not be contacted, the parents of children having contact with the molester would remain clueless (as clueless as you with your thirty year friendship with one) and the child most likely would commit suicide and if they did survive the shunning, they would be forever scarred by the physical, emotional and spiritual abuse.

In the Conti case, the elders in the congregation knew of his history as a child molester, he was on the list at Bethel and they never let the parents know and Candace was molested repeatedly for several years. THAT is the reason for the 21 million dollar PUNITIVE damages against the Watchtower Corp.

Candice Conti refused to settle out of court and sign a non-disclosure. She wanted the world to know what they did to her.

It is kinda like the Watchtower's Hell Doctrine (They deny the existence of Hell)...

You can say it ain't so, but that doesn't change the truth.

You assume too much, for she "that is hasty surely heads for want".(Prov 21:5) He was not a child molester "in the beginning" but only at "the end". His course of molestation came to light after he molested a young man and was caught by the young man's mother, who then reported this to the authorities. He was then sentenced and sent to prison, whereby he died as sex offender. He was also disfellowshiped from Jehovah's Witnesses.

An individual's wicked taste for pedophilia has often come to light only after a child reported it an adult, who then reported it to the proper authorities. Of the man, I had no real contact with him for several years before his deviation.

Individuals like this are indeed wicked, having no conscience. They are like "rocks hidden below water". (Jude 12) These often prey on children as someone easy to persuade, hoping their demented acts never "come to light". It is now a "done deal", for he received his "just deserts", death.

And of Candice Conti, it is not what "they" (Jehovah's Witnesses) did to her, but what "he" (Jonathan Kendrick) did to her. He alone is responsible for his actions and not Jehovah's Witnesses. Over the centuries, the churches have allowed sexual immorality to abound and never flinched. Same-sex marriage is now common, with even the Church of Christ having endorsed it, whereas Jehovah's Witnesses abhor it and prove this to be the case by disfellowshipping anyone who is unrepentant.

 

[Strypes]

And of Candice Conti, it is not what "they" (Jehovah's Witnesses) did to her, but what "he" (Jonathan Kendrick) did to her. He alone is responsible for his actions and not Jehovah's Witnesses. Over the centuries, the churches have allowed sexual immorality to abound and never flinched. Same-sex marriage is now common, with even the Church of Christ having endorsed it, whereas Jehovah's Witnesses abhor it and prove this to be the case by disfellowshipping anyone who is unrepentant.

The Court in California gave them 21 million (punitive) reasons to rethink their two witness rule.