I put the rapture at anywhere from now to ten years. I was laughing at '100' years.
We just need to look at Sodom. Matt 13:9
He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Eze 16:49
Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Keyword here is ''therefore''. God does not change. His reasons for destroying nations and bringing change are the same in the past as they will be in the future.
It is because the society in Sodom was too far gone. They tolerated sin at a significant level. This made the environment completely unfit for children to grow up in (I honestly believe this is a key factor on change for God). A lot similar to Noah's time. There comes a point where ''sin is full measure'' (as with the Amorites in Gen 15:16) where God no longer tolerates the sinners.
So, looking at Eze 16:49. Helping poor and needy is a bit blurry today as many unsaved do support charities. But the 'detestable things' is not blurry.
We know what Sodomy means and I don't believe it is a co-incidence that it be named after Sodom's detestable things.
What I found interesting about homosexuality is that it is not a sin against another person. So it does not ring any alarm bells in the unsaved. But it is a sin against your body and against your Creator. A sin that God ordained maximum punishment for with the Jews in the OT.
Lev 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
It is the type of sin that one commits when they are 'handed over''. IE God considers their sin typical of those at or close to sin being 'full measure'.
Romans 1:26-27,
Paul said, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
But how long can it still be? Gen 18:32
Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?” He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.
God is amazing. He would have spared Sodom if there were ten righteous. What we learn from this is that He will wait until the very last moment.
But then there is also this verse to consider: Matt 24:22
If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
This verse is talking about the last days. We can relate to this verse as everything we watch and hear has been contaminated with 'detestable things'.
So, God has a balancing act to perform. Maximize time for the unsaved not yet at sin full measure and minimize time for the saved.
The world has entered the age of Sodom committing detestable things. God's finger is on the red button. The clock is ticking. I predict the rapture at 1 to 10 years from now.
We can predict the rapture guys. God is not going to change who He is just to say '''haha you expected it then, I made it fifty years later''.
It is only in an age where all towns and countries can become a 'global village' that 'fullscale' destruction predictions become possible.
@KingJ -- Your very last sentence -- "We can predict the rapture guys". No -- we Can't. We only Think we can. Sometimes. Because there Have been those in the past , obviously, who Have tried to set dates and, guess what -- we're all still here. And, yes, there Are world events that will be happening at Some point in the future. But , as pastor was saying Sunday , be prepared Now.
@only son, I would disagree with you on this point, there are still prophesies to be fulfilled yes, but there are 'very few' prophesies to be fulfilled this side of the Rapture.
Most of the outstanding prophesies are after the Rapture, during the Tribulation periods.
Hello Paul. Perhaps we are putting the cart before the horse - concerning what the Bible says about the - " prophecy signs " of the rapture or resurrection.
The reason that I believe that there are many, many signs of prophecies yet to be fulfilled before the second coming - " meaning the rapture " - is simply because when we read the details of Yahoshua says about the END TIME TRIBULATION "
What does Yahoshua say ? - we find that he was referring to after the beginning of the signs - that after the beginning of the signs ...
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things are fulfilled.
What Yahoshua was saying here in verse 34 is in direct reference to the previous signs that will take place.
The Bible shows that the many, many signs will begin to take place and after a very short time thereafter - the rapture / RESURRECTION will tale place AND also a single generation will not pass, " in reference to the time frame ? - that the tribulation will fully begin and hit the earth.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Also if we read
Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
So we see that all of the many, many end times signs that we see in the Bible concerning the stars and sun and moon and heavens going into complete disorder and chaos, disorganization and the falling of stars from heaven.
The - End Time Sign - INCREASE OF KNOWLEDGE.
The - End Time Sign - MASS ANIMAL DEATHS
Hosea 4:3 ...'Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.'
The - End Time Sign - NATURAL DISASTERS and massive – EARTHQUAKES and End Time Sign - of WARs and rumors of wars and massive worldwide pandemic plagues and diseases and sickness and FAMINE.
I believe that we are still a long way off from experiencing these many, many, many signs of judgment on the earth. And that since a single generation { ABOUT 80 YEARS } is not going to pass by after the RESURRECTION / RAPTURE before these signs full take place.
Also, Paul - the tribulation is only going to last for seven years, this is a short time for all of these signs to take full effect and for the world to go up into total world war, for the WHOLE ENTIRE world to TURN ITS BACK ON ISRAEL, including America, { if America is still around or able to protect Israel } during the tribulation. All of the entire world will stand united against Israel to make war against Israel before Yahoshua returns after the seven years of tribulation.
Also, we know that - True Christians and Bible believers know that - The world does not mind Islam existing while practicing polygamy, just as long as they do it in a manner that resembles a harlotry - ring or a playboy bunny show. The world does not mind Muslims EXISTING while pretending to stone a woman for adultery as long as they do not hold women responsible for the adultery of the Bible standards. But when Israel rebuilds its temple, begins to enact the Old Testament Laws and enforce them, and begin to get close to the true identity of the God Of The Bible - then the entire Muslim, Catholic and Protestant world will unite with the non-believers of the world and will fight to destroy Israel. After seven years, Israel will lose the war and almost be completely destroyed then Yahoshua will return a third time and fight a war with the saints from the rapture with him and they will completely destroy the world populations who have decided to make war against His chosen people, the Jews. / Israel.
Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
I believe that all of these judgment signs are to BEGIN to take place and thereafter the beginning of sorrows and horrible events transpiring - the rapture and second coming takes place and be shown as SIGNS - before they fully happen. Then seven years of tribulation will take place.
Also, Paul, these prophecy signs are " Just prophecy Signs " that we will see { MANY MANY SIGNS } to come before the resurrection / rapture. prophecy Signs are Signs-
If we can understand the difference between Trinitarian " ONE STEP THEOLOGY " and real Biblical " manuscriptual " facts. A prophecy sign does not mean that you have reached the destination or the end. A Sign simply points the way to show us how close we are to the end / destination of the path. I simply do not see any signs of the tribulationwhere we have massive famine, massive wars, massive diseases, and plagues and sicknesses. I do not see the stars and heavens doing anything different than they have done before. Many prophecy signs are promised, but when we begin to see the signs then the rapture / resurrection will happen.
I personally do not see that things are any different than how they have been since Yahoshua walked the earth. There have been many famines, many wars, many sicknesses, and massive plagues, many problems with livestock and animals and many other horrible things happening every now and then since Yahoshua was on earth. But a single generation will not pass before these things are fulfilled. We are not seeing signs of the heavens going into disorder, we are not seeing signs of massive world war or even famine and drought and crop devastation. Even the diseased are decreasing. Global new HIV infections have declined by just 18% in the past seven years, from 2.2 million in 2010 to 1.8 million in 2017, ALso, there have been many plagues that killed millions of people. The Black Death killed 50 million people in the 14th century or 60 percent of Europe's entire population.
The world is doing great overall, these signs have always been here since the time of Yahoshua but the Bible shows that there will be signs of the world being overcome and overwhelmed by these judgments. There have always been these same prophecy signs but I just do not see that we are yet close to the destination as described in the manuscripts of the Bible.
There shall a FEW more prophecy that have to be fulfill before Jesus return for the second time. And I have two yet to come in our time.
They are: "One World Order and One Relegion"
When they are after the Sabbath keepers for killing them, the world shall see Jesus with His angels appears in heaven.
Although I am not a Sabbath keeper and believe that The Sabbath is not for Gentiles as St Paul expresses in Col 2:12 - Saying that We are buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Christ has - 14 Blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
:16 Any man therefore judging you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: - :17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
But I do believe that all faiths, even sabbath keepers - or Muslims or Catholics - { everyone } has the ful freedom to worship how they choose.
This was not always allowed in most of the world. In England, it was even illegal to say The Lord’s prayer in English - people were burned - at the stake for saying The Lord’s prayer in English. In 1517. seven people were burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church for the crime of teaching their children to say the Lord’s Prayer in English rather than Latin. - - This is why they were burning and torturing and imprisoning people just before they produced the " TRINITARIAN " translation ( Concerning the very translation ) itself being translated by others.
Even after the KJV was produced in 1611 - the Trinitarians still continued to drive people out of England and Europe and expel and persecute people who thought different religious ideologies than they. Many, many Pilgrims and Puritans and Quakers left England because they could not legally exist while being separated from the Church OF England - they would be killed, persecuted and tortured and reduced into nothings of society. They sought to separate from the Church of England; --- King Charles the 1 st and many other Trinitarian Kings - would threaten them with harsh punishments if they did not obey the Church of England in religious faiths and doctrines. Most of them starved to death and died of diseases and other related deaths. Many of them died coming to America.
To the Church OF England - this was just a small, little, tiny, necessary and needed change in their society that really never mattered or affected the entirety of the body of society. This was their attitude. And their attitude when they made their trinitarian translation.
And this was just in England alone. What about the Millions of total victims throughout Europe who suffered at the hands of the Trinitarian Governments. This is why it took the Roman Catholic Church nearly 500 years after Christ to produce a Bible into the Latin / Italian language and why they waited until nearly 2000 years after Christ to make the Bible into any other language on the entire planet outside of Latin / Italian. - while butchering, murdering, slaughtering and persecuting others for their faiths that contradicted their established faith and doctrines.
There were no bibles being translated - it was a death penalty or a prison sentence or Your life was completely destroyed - This is nearly 2000 years after Yahoshua - that it took for there to be a single known Bible translated into any language anywhere on the planet - outside of Latin / Italian, - alone...
Robert Barnes was a protestant reformer who was holding a position as lower level superior - at The University of Cambridge in England in the early 1520s. - As head, Robert Barnes, worked to translate The St. Paul's epistles into the English language - because there had been had no English Bible - because the Catholic Trinitarian Kings would not allow England to have an English Bible translation. Robert Barnes was arrested for working with Miles Coverdale and placed on trial before the Trinitarian court. - - Robert Barnes was given a punishment and sentenced to be publically humiliated by - being made to do public penance by carrying a fuaggot ( a bundle of sticks or twigs bound together as fuel. ) to Paul's Cross. Robert Barnes continued onward trying to get the Bible translated and was sentenced to be burned alive at the stake. Robert Barnes escaped and was later re- captured by the Trinitarians and was burned alive at the stake along with two other translators / helpers - found with him.
The Trinitarian Pope worked with the English King and issued an edict that the English Bibles should be burned and the printing presses stopped. Some completed sheets were seized, but Miles Coverdale saved others translation pages. Miles Coverdale was exiled from England’s cities three times and was forced to move from location to location - running to save his life. - This is not even a fraction of the torment, persecution, terrorism, and violence that Trinitarians have committed against people for attempting to translate the Bible- I have extensively read most of the history - I know how much Trinitarians absolutely are completely revolted and un delighted about the idea that the Bible being translated as it was transmitted in the original manuscripts. - - William Tyndale was burned at the stake. Jan Hus was burned at the stake for attempting to make a Bible translation. Van Liesveldt was arrested, charged with heresy and put to death for attempting to make a Dutch Bible. - - John Wycliff’s dead bones were dug up by the Pope and The Pope had them burned and His ashes thrown into the “ Swift “ river Trinitarians were the dominant military, government and only power that was empowered and dominating - and the only authority. It took the Trinitarians nearly 2000 years to produce a single bible into any other language on the entire planet - outside of a dead, useless and limited Latin Language. And this incomplete, perverted Latin translation was missing whole chapters and was not even finished even after 500 years after Yahoshua - the Roman Catholic Church still was making edits and changes and revising this only existing Latin Bible translation - into the 6 th century. With these facts and also many other facts that I have not mentioned – how could there be chance or expectation that The Bible be translated by Non Trinitarians ?
@onlyson ---- I'm not a Sabbath keeper , either. Because Jesus Christ rose bodily from the grave on the first day of the week, so, we celebrate Sunday as the Lord's Day.
Yes, 'we' should All have freedom to believe / practice the religion of our choice and NOT force Anyone to any particular belief system.
Christianity Does have the only risen Savior after the three days of being in the grave. It was the practice back in those days -- to make sure the person being buried was actually Dead.
It is God's desire to have a personal relationship with all of us. Jesus Christ did it all on the cross , in our place and For us. No good works on our part are necessary.
And, yes, there was Much persecution by the RCC.
there was a discussion a while back -- the Trinitarian vs Non-Trinitarians. The Trinity is very much Scriptural. Central to Christianity.
Hello Paul. Perhaps we are putting the cart before the horse - concerning what the Bible says about the - " prophecy signs " of the rapture or resurrection.
The reason that I believe that there are many, many signs of prophecies yet to be fulfilled before the second coming - " meaning the rapture " - is simply because when we read the details of Yahoshua says about the END TIME TRIBULATION "
What does Yahoshua say ? - we find that he was referring to after the beginning of the signs - that after the beginning of the signs ...
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things are fulfilled.
What Yahoshua was saying here in verse 34 is in direct reference to the previous signs that will take place.
The Bible shows that the many, many signs will begin to take place and after a very short time thereafter - the rapture / RESURRECTION will tale place AND also a single generation will not pass, " in reference to the time frame ? - that the tribulation will fully begin and hit the earth.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Also if we read
Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
So we see that all of the many, many end times signs that we see in the Bible concerning the stars and sun and moon and heavens going into complete disorder and chaos, disorganization and the falling of stars from heaven.
The - End Time Sign - INCREASE OF KNOWLEDGE.
The - End Time Sign - MASS ANIMAL DEATHS
Hosea 4:3 ...'Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.'
The - End Time Sign - NATURAL DISASTERS and massive – EARTHQUAKES and End Time Sign - of WARs and rumors of wars and massive worldwide pandemic plagues and diseases and sickness and FAMINE.
I believe that we are still a long way off from experiencing these many, many, many signs of judgment on the earth. And that since a single generation { ABOUT 80 YEARS } is not going to pass by after the RESURRECTION / RAPTURE before these signs full take place.
Also, Paul - the tribulation is only going to last for seven years, this is a short time for all of these signs to take full effect and for the world to go up into total world war, for the WHOLE ENTIRE world to TURN ITS BACK ON ISRAEL, including America, { if America is still around or able to protect Israel } during the tribulation. All of the entire world will stand united against Israel to make war against Israel before Yahoshua returns after the seven years of tribulation.
Also, we know that - True Christians and Bible believers know that - The world does not mind Islam existing while practicing polygamy, just as long as they do it in a manner that resembles a harlotry - ring or a playboy bunny show. The world does not mind Muslims EXISTING while pretending to stone a woman for adultery as long as they do not hold women responsible for the adultery of the Bible standards. But when Israel rebuilds its temple, begins to enact the Old Testament Laws and enforce them, and begin to get close to the true identity of the God Of The Bible - then the entire Muslim, Catholic and Protestant world will unite with the non-believers of the world and will fight to destroy Israel. After seven years, Israel will lose the war and almost be completely destroyed then Yahoshua will return a third time and fight a war with the saints from the rapture with him and they will completely destroy the world populations who have decided to make war against His chosen people, the Jews. / Israel.
Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
I believe that all of these judgment signs are to BEGIN to take place and thereafter the beginning of sorrows and horrible events transpiring - the rapture and second coming takes place and be shown as SIGNS - before they fully happen. Then seven years of tribulation will take place.
Also, Paul, these prophecy signs are " Just prophecy Signs " that we will see { MANY MANY SIGNS } to come before the resurrection / rapture. prophecy Signs are Signs-
If we can understand the difference between Trinitarian " ONE STEP THEOLOGY " and real Biblical " manuscriptual " facts. A prophecy sign does not mean that you have reached the destination or the end. A Sign simply points the way to show us how close we are to the end / destination of the path. I simply do not see any signs of the tribulationwhere we have massive famine, massive wars, massive diseases, and plagues and sicknesses. I do not see the stars and heavens doing anything different than they have done before. Many prophecy signs are promised, but when we begin to see the signs then the rapture / resurrection will happen.
I personally do not see that things are any different than how they have been since Yahoshua walked the earth. There have been many famines, many wars, many sicknesses, and massive plagues, many problems with livestock and animals and many other horrible things happening every now and then since Yahoshua was on earth. But a single generation will not pass before these things are fulfilled. We are not seeing signs of the heavens going into disorder, we are not seeing signs of massive world war or even famine and drought and crop devastation. Even the diseased are decreasing. Global new HIV infections have declined by just 18% in the past seven years, from 2.2 million in 2010 to 1.8 million in 2017, ALso, there have been many plagues that killed millions of people. The Black Death killed 50 million people in the 14th century or 60 percent of Europe's entire population.
The world is doing great overall, these signs have always been here since the time of Yahoshua but the Bible shows that there will be signs of the world being overcome and overwhelmed by these judgments. There have always been these same prophecy signs but I just do not see that we are yet close to the destination as described in the manuscripts of the Bible.
I think sometimes peoples (in general) idea of the rapture is that it will be in the Tribulation period, I have not seen scripture to confirm when it will be except that Christ will return for His Bride the One True Church and we will meet with Him in the sky. I don't believe we will see the Tribulation (if anyone can show me different please do), baptised, born-again, spirit filled believers, whose name is in the Book of Life and the Lamb, will be lifted out before the woes and vials are poured onto the earth, onto the lost souls. I therefore don't believe we will see these things or the anti-Christ who won't be made known until the half way point in the 7 year Tribulations.
RAPTURE - CHRIST RETURNS FOR HIS BRIDE, HIS CHURCH we, the Saved whose Names are in the book of life) will meet with Him in the air.
TRIBULATION 3.5 Years - then the abomination that causes desolation
GREAT TRIBULATION 3.5 years - then CHRIST COMES TO EARTH AND DEFEATS THE DEVIL
This post is concerning the Saved, the Rapture and the Tribulation Periods only.
So those lifted out will not experience the Tribulations.
Therefore the number of prophesies still to be fulfilled, this side of the Rapture I believe are few.
The early church prayed and waited in eager expectation for Christ's Return in Glory, we should also, not to do so, would be worse than silly.
Look at the times of Noah, he built a ship when the sun was shining, people then thought he was barmy. Many today think the Rapture is a long way off, I would seriously suggest they read about the Parable of the Ten Virgins in Matthew 25.
We are fortunate in may ways in the time we live, we can see so much more regarding prophesies.
The key prophesy I believe is that the Jews will return back to the Promised Land.
15 May 1948, Israel was declared a state again.
Looking at some of the prophesies we have of the latter days of the end times we have...
- Wars and Rumours of wars
Matthew 24:4-7 (NKJV)
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
some say there have always been wars, but scripture adds to this, never before have we seen so many wars and so many rumours of wars.
Since its establishment in 1948, the State of Israel has fought eight recognised wars, two Palestinian intifadas, and a series of armed conflicts in the broader Arab–Israeli conflict. Even today we see the Palestine Liberation Army, Hamas, Iran, Syria etc
Here is a list of wars involving Israel since 1948
Matthew 24:7 (NKJV)
7 ...And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
statistically records show that earth quakes have increase in the last 100 years, more so in the last 50 years, and the severity has also increased too.
Again we could say there is nothing new here, black plague, polo etc, but now we are hearing of Super Bugs, Ebola, HIV and more. OK they may find cures for some but others will emerge.
- There will be an hardening of hearts
Matthew 24:10 (NKJV)
10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
Matthew 24:12 (NKJV)
12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
2 Timothy 3:1-7 (NKJV)
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,
4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Who cannot see this today? People have attitudes like never before, social media breed this. Children have no respect. Everything is me, me, me, whats in it for me attitude, sue, sue sue, what can I get without working. Stealing and thinking it is right etc, etc.
- There will be an increase in wickedness
This can mean increase in sin, but wickedness is clear to see everywhere. I Jesus' time he said many times it was a wicked and adulteress generation, what would he say today? Probably don't you remember I told you it would get worse.
2 Timothy 3:1-7 (NKJV)
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,
4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Matthew 24:12 (NKJV)
12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
- Man will go with man and woman with woman
Look at LGBTQ+ Scrioture says in the latter days it will appear the devil has domain, it certainly does.
Jude 1:6-8 (NIV2011)
6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.
7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings.
Even though scripture warns of these things, they cannot see it God has veiled them from the truth due to their sins.
- Children will be disobedient with their parents
We see it every day, their hearts are hardening, they have little or no respect for their parents let alone anyone else.
There are no doubt many reasons for this, which is continuing to get worse, but putting all reasons to one side for a minute, it is all prophesied.
- There will be false prophets Matthew 24:11 (NKJV)
11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
Don't believe what people say, believe what God's Word says. His Word is Truth.
- As the days of Noah were
I was not the Sunday school story of Noah building a boat when the sun was shining, that happened, but as the Days of Noah was refers to much much more. Sodom and Gomorrah and Lot, the un-Godliness, the sin, the sexual acts, etc. This has only happened twice in history, at the time of Noah and NOW!
How many warnings do we need, I believe based on these items and more and the warnings very little time is left before the Rapture.
Scripture tells us after the flood with Noah, when the whole world was flooded, God said He would never flood the whole world again.
But, scripture tells us there will be Raging Waters in diverse places, there have been flooding all over the world, even in places we would not expect it to happen, USA and UK are experiencing it yet again as I write.
We see animals dying with no explanation, we recently saw 1100 dolphins washed up on the French coast and died with no apparent explanation.
Look at the advancements of knowledge, also prophesied, at school kids learn more, not all good I have to say, look at what hospitals and universities know about the human body, what they can do today, yet they still don't know so much, it is beyond them. Look at the computers and Internet instant access to knowledge, our mobile phones can store and access so much too, 1000's ebooks on an item so small, yet it can access as much as a computer system,
Everything God has done, the devil turns round to evil or the total opposite of what God has done or has said is right. All the above for starters.
God tells us not to do something for our own good, the devil says, no problem, do it and see, its ok.
The world is changing rapidly, God mixed languages up at Babel, for our own good, we all know what happened there. What has the world done, created Google, we can now communicate in any language at the press of a button.
Don't believe Christ's Return is not imminent, believe like the first century Church, believe like Jesus tells us, look again at the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25
He is coming soon, we should be rejoicing in that fact, we should be on our knees praying for salvation of brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, but also for family, friends, and more for their salvation.
If Jesus returned tonight would you be ready?
If you go to catch a bus and miss it because you wasn't prepared, you wait for the next one, Christ will return for his Church, His Bride, miss it and you will see the Tribulation and Great Tribulation.
Christ tells us to be ready, he doesn't want us to not be, He died for our sins so that we can meet Him in the air at the Rapture, we can be with Him forever, if we are like the wise virgins and not the foolish ones.
Matthew 24:38-44 (NKJV)
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.
43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
@KingJ -- Your very last sentence -- "We can predict the rapture guys". No -- we Can't. We only Think we can. Sometimes. Because there Have been those in the past , obviously, who Have tried to set dates and, guess what -- we're all still here. And, yes, there Are world events that will be happening at Some point in the future. But , as pastor was saying Sunday , be prepared Now.
I am just always so surprised and shocked at how badly people read, interpret and teach scripture.
''No we cant'' Yes, we can.
Read the verse 'properly'. It says ''
but concerning that day and hour no one knows,''.
Note it says 'Day'. Note it says 'hour'. Does it say week? Month? Year?
He who has ears to hear must hear. Jesus tells us the season. The signs He spoke of plus an understanding of history can enable us to predict more accurately as we grow closer to the rapture. Never day and hour. But certainly decade and year. Soon month and week.
There is a funneling effect in the last days. IE God permits the devil to have his way more and more. The devil sees these open doors and knows his time has come. When he sees these open doors, we should also see them and know, we have a few years. The tribulation is only going to be seven years. The devil will know that when he / anti-christ is 'permitted' to stand in the temple, if the rapture has not already come, it is very very soon. Like a week away for pre-tribbers and 3.5 years for mid tribbers.
Please meditate properly on this verse
Matt 24: 15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house
@KingJ --- oh, so now we're back to "if a person reads and understands Scripture Property' they will agree with you. The concept that we Are to understand is that No one Except the Father , Himself, knows when His Son will return in the air to gather born-again believers up to Himself. No day, or week or month or even the Year is known to Anyone. People have speculated in the past about that -- the exact Day and obviously it has not occurred yet.
It will be a Surprise -- thus, we are to be ready Now.
And, yes, 'we' Do see signs of the times and they are like labor pains in a woman preparing to give birth. Getting more and more intense. Some experience very Short intense labors and some experience Long intense labors. But 'eventually' that baby Will be born.
According to Daniel 9 or so -- the tribulation period will be the last of the 7 weeks of Daniel and the last 3 1/2 yrs. will be the Great Tribulation.
Another comment you made. You specified that "baptized, born-again, spirit-filled believers' will be lifted up and out of here. Well -- what about those born-again Not baptized believers? What happens to Them? Because not all born-again believers Can be baptized by immersion. And being "spirit-filled" when a person Does accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit immediately comes to indwell them and never leaves. Are you suggesting that there is a distinction between more and less 'spirit-filled'. Are there people who are More spiritual than others at any given time? and therefore, a person needs to be sure that they Are , all of the time, spirit-filled or Else?
I Do know of kids who've been visiting grandparents during summer vacation times and accept Jesus Christ as Savior during camp or VBS and upon going back home, ask their parents if they can be baptized by immersion. The parents say that since they were baptized as infants, that's all that's necessary. And they are told that if they want to be baptized by immersion when they are 18 they can. But, until Then, be satisfied with their being sprinkled as infants. And then the parents move away from the area so that there won't be any more contact with the grandparent's church / teaching influences. So you're suggesting that That young person would Not be raptured up and out because they've not been baptized? Suggesting that baptism is part Of the salvation process. Suggesting that the cross is not sufficient in and of itself? Just wondering.
I am just always so surprised and shocked at how badly people read, interpret and teach scripture.
''No we cant'' Yes, we can.
Read the verse 'properly'. It says ''
but concerning that day and hour no one knows,''.
Note it says 'Day'. Note it says 'hour'. Does it say week? Month? Year?
He who has ears to hear must hear. Jesus tells us the season. The signs He spoke of plus an understanding of history can enable us to predict more accurately as we grow closer to the rapture. Never day and hour. But certainly decade and year. Soon month and week.
There is a funneling effect in the last days. IE God permits the devil to have his way more and more. The devil sees these open doors and knows his time has come. When he sees these open doors, we should also see them and know, we have a few years. The tribulation is only going to be seven years. The devil will know that when he / anti-christ is 'permitted' to stand in the temple, if the rapture has not already come, it is very very soon. Like a week away for pre-tribbers and 3.5 years for mid tribbers.
Please meditate properly on this verse
Matt 24: 15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house
I agree with your comments regarding the 'day' and 'hour' we do not know, and the funnelling effect as you mention, which could also be a check list of prophesies had we made one. As time goes on the number of prophesies to be fulfilled are fewer and fewer.
That said I would, if I may, add an air of caution to this statement, many will think it is not yet we we are alright for now, or be less ready for Christ's Return which He himself warns, 'He will come like a thief in the night', not to steal, but as scripture goes on to confirm, when we least expect Him to return.
Revelation 16:15 (NKJV)
15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
Matthew 24:36-44 (NKJV)
36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.
43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
2 Peter 3:14-18 (NKJV)
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
Jesus warns us for a reason, He knows our human failings, and weaknesses, the Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, if we set our minds on a set period we could find we are not ready. The early church expected it to happen imminently, a lot of prophesies were to be fulfilled first, but they still had imminent exceptions of Jesus returning in Glory. Our hearts should be the same, be ready, any hour, Jesus Christ is coming soon.
@KingJ --- oh, so now we're back to "if a person reads and understands Scripture Property' they will agree with you. The concept that we Are to understand is that No one Except the Father , Himself, knows when His Son will return in the air to gather born-again believers up to Himself. No day, or week or month or even the Year is known to Anyone. People have speculated in the past about that -- the exact Day and obviously it has not occurred yet.
It will be a Surprise -- thus, we are to be ready Now.
And, yes, 'we' Do see signs of the times and they are like labor pains in a woman preparing to give birth. Getting more and more intense. Some experience very Short intense labors and some experience Long intense labors. But 'eventually' that baby Will be born.
According to Daniel 9 or so -- the tribulation period will be the last of the 7 weeks of Daniel and the last 3 1/2 yrs. will be the Great Tribulation.
Another comment you made. You specified that "baptized, born-again, spirit-filled believers' will be lifted up and out of here. Well -- what about those born-again Not baptized believers? What happens to Them? Because not all born-again believers Can be baptized by immersion. And being "spirit-filled" when a person Does accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit immediately comes to indwell them and never leaves. Are you suggesting that there is a distinction between more and less 'spirit-filled'. Are there people who are More spiritual than others at any given time? and therefore, a person needs to be sure that they Are , all of the time, spirit-filled or Else?
I Do know of kids who've been visiting grandparents during summer vacation times and accept Jesus Christ as Savior during camp or VBS and upon going back home, ask their parents if they can be baptized by immersion. The parents say that since they were baptized as infants, that's all that's necessary. And they are told that if they want to be baptized by immersion when they are 18 they can. But, until Then, be satisfied with their being sprinkled as infants. And then the parents move away from the area so that there won't be any more contact with the grandparent's church / teaching influences. So you're suggesting that That young person would Not be raptured up and out because they've not been baptized? Suggesting that baptism is part Of the salvation process. Suggesting that the cross is not sufficient in and of itself? Just wondering.
I am just always so surprised and shocked at how badly people read, interpret and teach scripture.
''No we cant'' Yes, we can.
Read the verse 'properly'. It says ''
but concerning that day and hour no one knows,''.
Note it says 'Day'. Note it says 'hour'. Does it say week? Month? Year?
He who has ears to hear must hear. Jesus tells us the season. The signs He spoke of plus an understanding of history can enable us to predict more accurately as we grow closer to the rapture. Never day and hour. But certainly decade and year. Soon month and week.
There is a funneling effect in the last days. IE God permits the devil to have his way more and more. The devil sees these open doors and knows his time has come. When he sees these open doors, we should also see them and know, we have a few years. The tribulation is only going to be seven years. The devil will know that when he / anti-christ is 'permitted' to stand in the temple, if the rapture has not already come, it is very very soon. Like a week away for pre-tribbers and 3.5 years for mid tribbers.
Please meditate properly on this verse
Matt 24: 15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house
One other point, especially regarding caution to estimating/knowing when Christ will return, if we are looking at unfulfilled prophesies you may not see them fulfilled, and like a thief in the night, our Lord returns!
Although I agree with what you are saying, I do see every reason for caution, stick to what Jesus says, He will return unexpectedly, like a thief in the night. A prophesy only needs to be fulfilled at a location anywhere in the world and it is fulfilled. We often wake up to the news, imagine waking up to many people all over the world have disappeared, and the devastation that will no doubt follow.
Be ready, be prayerful ready at all times, Jesus is coming, very soon, we are told to watch, watch we must.
@KingJ --- oh, so now we're back to "if a person reads and understands Scripture Property' they will agree with you. The concept that we Are to understand is that No one Except the Father , Himself, knows when His Son will return in the air to gather born-again believers up to Himself. No day, or week or month or even the Year is known to Anyone. People have speculated in the past about that -- the exact Day and obviously it has not occurred yet.
It will be a Surprise -- thus, we are to be ready Now.
And, yes, 'we' Do see signs of the times and they are like labor pains in a woman preparing to give birth. Getting more and more intense. Some experience very Short intense labors and some experience Long intense labors. But 'eventually' that baby Will be born.
According to Daniel 9 or so -- the tribulation period will be the last of the 7 weeks of Daniel and the last 3 1/2 yrs. will be the Great Tribulation.
Another comment you made. You specified that "baptized, born-again, spirit-filled believers' will be lifted up and out of here. Well -- what about those born-again Not baptized believers? What happens to Them? Because not all born-again believers Can be baptized by immersion. And being "spirit-filled" when a person Does accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit immediately comes to indwell them and never leaves. Are you suggesting that there is a distinction between more and less 'spirit-filled'. Are there people who are More spiritual than others at any given time? and therefore, a person needs to be sure that they Are , all of the time, spirit-filled or Else?
I Do know of kids who've been visiting grandparents during summer vacation times and accept Jesus Christ as Savior during camp or VBS and upon going back home, ask their parents if they can be baptized by immersion. The parents say that since they were baptized as infants, that's all that's necessary. And they are told that if they want to be baptized by immersion when they are 18 they can. But, until Then, be satisfied with their being sprinkled as infants. And then the parents move away from the area so that there won't be any more contact with the grandparent's church / teaching influences. So you're suggesting that That young person would Not be raptured up and out because they've not been baptized? Suggesting that baptism is part Of the salvation process. Suggesting that the cross is not sufficient in and of itself? Just wondering.
I understand the 7 weeks in Daniel to refer to the 7 year Tribulation period, the first three and a half years being the Tribulation Period and the latter three and a half years being the Great Tribulation period.
That said I would, if I may, add an air of caution to this statement, many will think it is not yet we we are alright for now, or be less ready for Christ's Return which He himself warns, 'He will come like a thief in the night', not to steal, but as scripture goes on to confirm, when we least expect Him to return.
The verses you quote say He does not come as a thief to 'us' (1 Thess 5:2). We have ears to hear, we watch for the signs and we are His bride, ready and waiting.
Those who are not His bride. The unsaved. To them His coming will be sudden and unexpected.
This argument touches on two more important concepts. 1. OSAS and 2. God having a different to scripture code of ethics. Just regarding the second, what I mean for example is God is righteous in all His ways. He does not change. If in the past He did X because of Y. He will repeat. God is in a sense ''predictable'' on sin. Sinful environments. Sinners being sold-out to sin. We know Him. We know what to expect. He is not going to be like '''Oh, I have changed, I am now less patient or more patient, or partial, or I just wanted to prove you all wrong''.
Jesus warns us for a reason, He knows our human failings, and weaknesses, the Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, if we set our minds on a set period we could find we are not ready. The early church expected it to happen imminently, a lot of prophesies were to be fulfilled first, but they still had imminent exceptions of Jesus returning in Glory. Our hearts should be the same, be ready, any hour, Jesus Christ is coming soon.
I agree, He is coming soon. I put it at now to ten years.
For a Christian to be 'sleeping' now is concerning. As you noted many prophecies now fulfilled. I am literally just waiting for the temple to be built and then for the anti-christ to reveal himself therein.
There is absolutely nothing ''thiefy'' about Jesus's return for a Christian. It will be a relief. 'Finally Jesus has come and taken me from this place'. The scary thing for a Christian is that Jesus comes before they have actually done anything for Jesus. We have been waiting to use those talents we hid. Terrifying thought to stand before God and have to explain why you did not use your talents for Him.
The exhortation to be ready is a general exhortation to all in attendance. Just as are the exhortations to not commit sins that not even pagans commit 1 Cor 5:1. Are we to believe a Christian can do these? There was a chance Paul could have returned to killing Christians? No. Paul was changed. A Christian 'is' changed. That is why they are a Christian. We are just recipients of the same message as the unsaved as it does not hurt knowing. Paul for example makes it crystal clear in 1 Cor 5:11 that there are those that ''claim'' to be brothers and sisters. So the thief in the night passage applies to them and the unsaved.
There is no chance in hell that a true born again Christian not be raptured. If anyone says there is, I believe they have not applied their minds to properly grasping what exactly a Christian is.
@KingJ -- maybe it's their Hearts that should be grasping what a Christian / born-again believer/ is.
It's Scripture that's comparing Jesus Christ coming 'quickly' for born-again believers like unto a thief coming / a person doesn't know when a thief Might be coming. The thief does Not announce his coming.
Why did I write this? Because I felt in the double post to KingJ and myself your comments were a little sharp...
To KingJ you said, oh, so now we're back to "if a person reads and understands Scripture Property' they will agree with you.
I appreciate words can come over differently to if they were said face to face, but having read it again I still feel it was a little confrontational.
Had you posted to KingJ separately, I would not reply regarding your comments to him, but as that statement was at the top, the first item I read, it set the stage for the questions that followed. I avoid confrontation, I have seen Christians argue and cut each other up, so sad when it happens, like a knife going in and being twisted, so I never let things get to that stage, best to offer the other cheek and walk away. Hence my reply yesterday.
To reply to your post above, where do I work, let me first say that when we talk to another person by text, we never know their circumstances, so we treat the situation as you or I or any other member are all of good health and able bodied, again another reason I am careful with personal confrontation with one person, that person may have serious issues in life, may have terminal illness, may have just been told they have one, we all wear a mask sister, we try not to show issues we are trying to cope with, so I believe firing direct bullets is not good at all.
Let me explain briefly, I was not having a bad day online, but I was in by earthly body, but even though temptation to respond with strong words against strong words I walked away and prayed. We cannot even consider what the person we speak to is like, other than telling a tree by its fruit. I am 70 years old, (you could have seen that in my profile) I have a Pride power wheelchair to get around, though I can hobble short distances in the bungalow, I have an electric bed, and many adaptations, I suffer pain daily, but try not to complain, there is always someone worse off. I have other health issues but will not go into these, I know I will be with my Lord one day not to far in the distant future, I know there will be no more crying, weeping, no more pain, no more suffering and 'I will be able to walk'. I am very deaf, one ear is dead, the other down to 30-35 bBa, classed as severe, so internet is a blessing for me, but I do not get upset, although I do naturally get frustrated, one day soon I will ear again also. That is truly wonderful, Thanks be to God.
To reply to your other questions Sue, whch I reply now from memory...
I said we should be BAPTISED, born again and spirit filled believers in Christ Jesus. Your questions came from this statement.
Is baptism essential? My reply is Yes and No.
The Great commission tells us we should be baptised and baptise others.
Matthew 28:18-20 (NKJV)
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
But the thief on the cross next to Jesus wasn't baptised, but Jesus said...
Luke 23:39-43 (NKJV)
39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us."
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong."
42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
So is it essential to be baptised? We are told we should, we are commissioned to do it, but there are situations when it cannot be done.
- What about the person who calls on the Lord in their last hour, it is to late to be baptised, but they call on the Name of the Lord and repent.
- What about my situation, my wheelchair issues are because of hips and back issues and daily pain, it to much to hoist me to be baptised.
There are many examples in life I am sure you know some yourself.
We should be BORN-AGAIN, we must be born-again, Jesus says so. Unless we are born-again we will not see the Kingdom of Heaven, we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven and we should not be surprised when Jesus said this.
John 3:3,5,7. Most assuredly Jesus says, do not marvel at this Jesus says.
We are born again the moment we repent and ask Jesus into our heart, denying our old self, taking up our cross and following Him, who is The Way, The Truth and The Life.
We should be SPIRIT FILLED
Again the moment we are born again we are spirit filled.
What I said was scripturally correct, I feel, had I said providing we are saved and our name is in the Book of Life and the Lamb that would have been sufficient. But I didn't, but I did feel all the questions were not necessary either. Taking the two replies in your post it really did appear 'you were having a bad day at the office'. I nice way to say it without confrontation I thought, forgive me if I am wrong.
Amen, believing upon Yahoshua as the offering sacrifice of shed blood for our sins, this is the first step to being saved and I thank him for this salvation.
There is a question about something that was mentioned earlier about this Trinity Doctrine.
I was reading about how that someone had been discussing the Trinity Doctrine in the scriptures – here in the forum. I was hoping that someone could explain. And here is why I have this difference of opinion. And I tried to base my opinion - only in facts from the original MANUSCRIPTS only....
But how is this It is possible to even discuss “ The Trinity “ even in the Trinitarian Translation - because the word Trinity does not exist anywhere, even in the Trinitarian Translations.
Most of the Translation has been altered. For example - in the original manuscripts - Heb 11:3 never says that Christ is the expressed image of God’s - “ PERSON “ In Heb 11:3. - Christ is the expressed image of Gods - “ confidence “ / not Person.
Here is the way it is in the original manuscripts, exactly as it is written word for word.
Heb 1:3
Ος G3739 - who
Ων G1510 - is
απαυγασμα G541 - from shining
της G3588 - of his
δοξης G1391 - glory
και G2532 - and
χαρακτηρ G5481 - character
της G3588 - of his
υποστασεως G5287 - confidence
αυτου G846 - himself
φερων G5342 - bringing
τε G5037 - also
τα G3588 - this
παντα everything
τω G3588 - the
ρηματι G4487 - world
της G3588 - the
δυναμεως G1411 - power
αυτου G846 - of him
δι G1223 - by
εαυτου G1438 - himself
καθαρισμον G2512 - purifying
ποιησαμενος G4160 - becoming
των G3588 - the
αμαρτιων G266 - sins
ημων G1473 - of us
εκαθισεν G2523 - sat
εν G1722 - in
δεξια G1188 - the right
της G3588 - of the
μεγαλωσυνης G3172 - majesty
εν G1722 - in
υψηλοις G5308 - high ……………
Neither - The Father nor the Son are referred to or mentioned as a “ person “ in the manuscripts.
And the Scriptures plainly say that the Three manifestations of God are not “ THREE “ but the three are one…..
From Genesis to Revelation, the message os the same- God is not a trinity, not two, three or four or any more than, just one.
1 John Chapter 5: verse 8
G2532 and - G5140 three - G1510 exist - G3588 the - G3140 witnesses - G1722 in - G3588 the - G1093 earth - G3588 the - G4151 Spirit - G2532 and - G3588 the - G5204 water - G2532 and - G3588 the - G129 blood - G2532 and - G3588 these - G5140 three - G1519 into - G3588 this - G1520 in - G1510 exist.
Greek Manuscripts = , and - three - exist - the - witnesses - in - the - earth - the - Spirit - and - the - water - and - the - blood - and - these - three - into - this - in - exist
The Trinitarian Translators also mistranslated and completely changed this verse also, as we can see below.
{ KJV } 1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
The manuscripts say nothing about agreement, the word “ AGREE “ does not even exist in - 1Jn 5:8 .
It was added and inserted into the translation by the Trinitarian Translators. The Translation is nothing like the original manuscripts. The Bible says - 1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. These three are not a trinity - They are 1. - Meaning = A primary numeral one.
Not a Trio - or a Trinity- or triplets or a threesome or a triage. These three are - 1.
Tertullian - (160-215) was the Father of The Trinity doctrine and the very man who first invented and introduced the word and The Trinity doctrine. . The Trinity was a developed, A changing and an evolving unscriptural teaching - that did not fully develop until 400 years after Yahoshua. . .
The Trinitarian explains that God is " THREE INDIVIDUAL, DISTINCT PERSONS " - but the Bible never once declares that Yahoshua is a separate, Individual " DISTINCT = SEPARATE " Person from the Father. Not only did Yahoshua declare that He, Himself was the very Father to all believers here in - Rev 21:7
Rev 21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and " I will be his God, And he shall be my son. " How does Yahoshua declare that he is a father to his sons - Yet Trinitarians see him as another person. ?
BUT - Never once " not one single time - is the word unity, Agreement or harmony used to describe Yahoshua"s relationship with the father.
Yahoshua defines the terms in His message - by saying that He does nothing of His own self - saying that I can do nothing whatsoever of my own doing. - I do not have any power of miracles, Of my own " I do not do anything, Whatsoever - OF MY OWN. . . Saying that it is the father that does the miracles and the works. Here, It seems that Yahoshua is simply making the claim just to be an ordinary man, Just as the rest of the apostles and disciples who claimed the same exact same thing. - But this is not what he meant - He further explains and clarifies that this is because He was not a distinct separated, Individual part of Gods nature - nor of a trinity. - He was not a separate identity or person " separated or individual PERSON - from the father " But he explained that If You have seen "him" " You have literally seen the father and HAVE BEEN SHOWN THE FATHER " and demanded - WHY would anyone even expect to ever even see the father or expect TO HAVE BEEN SHOWN THE FATHER - while they are looking at him? You are seeing the Father and being shown THE FATHER, By looking upon him.
Can you see that he denied in every term that exists in the manuscript to be part of a trinity with the father. He has no power, No control, No miracles, No knowledge and there is no good and honor in Him. . . . . Saying - why do you call me " good "? -- There is no one good but God alone.
Every time He spoke of his own will, Power, Majesty and desire and purpose " He denied the trinity - Yet at the same time, He and the scriptures declare that He was God and a Father " and is to return to DWELL - in The Fathers throne
He said all of this in total denial of the Trinity. He is the very father himself here - ( who is a spirit ) manifested ( morphed ) into flesh - and the Greek uses this very word - morph " saying Yahoshua - is the very " morph " of the Father.
How is it possible to discuss the Trinity when reading from the manuscripts or even in the translation. One would have to the writings of The Roman Catholic Church Fathers to even find the word, Trinity. An this is where this was originated in Christianity and the Translation. The KJV - is a Copy - Cat of The Roman Catholic Douay Rheims Bible Translation of 1582. The only differences are found in where Roman Catholics and Protestants disagree.
