paganmystic
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2007
- Messages
- 234
We are told by those who (1) want to be saved that we are by faith alone and that’s how we receive the spirit. An example used most often to make this point is in Romans 4:13 and seems to confirm that, then goes onto say the laws make faith void in verse 14. Again, confirmed by verses 15 & 16. There are many examples of this in the separate letters from the Apostle Paul. This however is seriously taken out of context. Paul being a Jew from Tarsus had to show how, they (the Jews) living under the Law and the Gentiles (non believers) are on even ground for redemption. In the same letter just a few lines away, we read, Romans 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God, through our Lord Jesus Christ:, ( the colon will remain because the point continues, we’ll come back to that). For now, prior to 5:1 people have put Paul on a pedestal making him an idol to worship. Romans 5:1 starts to change that. Look at 5:10, For if, when we were enemies, [Paul being a Jew, hence we; as being Jew & Gentile] we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son; much more, being reconciled, (1) we shall be saved by his life. Yes you read that correctly, we shall be saved by his (Jesus, The Word made flesh) life.
This takes us to the Gospel of John 15:1>17, Jesus Is The True Vine John, being the most aristocratic disciple, that is to say, his writings, especially his Gospel were done the same way as the Old Hebrew and Judean masters, in contrasts. While maintaining Jesus’ use of common things to teach spiritual truth. This chapter to verse 17 in my mind really defines what TRUE CHRISTIANITY is about and really adds both meaning and value to Romans 5:10 entry.(The term TRUE CHRISTIANITY as far as I know, I am the only one that has used it. I use it to draw the distinct difference between the Ministry of Christ and Religious Doctrine). I must however finish my point from the opening sentence because it is increasingly apparent that through Religious Doctrine much of what Jesus taught has been put aside. This is how, since you have seen the link to the Gospel (The Laws of God), we must understand what the Letters of the Apostle were. By order of “The Word”, the risen Jesus, they were the eyewitness testimony to Jesus’ life by the disciples. We know this from all 4 Gospels Mt 28:16>20, Mk 16:14>18, Lk 24:36>49, Jn 20:19>23 & Acts 1:6>11 The Great Commission, which in turn has been passed down through the generations by those who believed only in the Ministry of Christ, their lives having been both touched by his most powerful hand and has accepted him and his life truly into their hearts and lived that way. This is the only way to really see and understand with our heart the parables Jesus used to explain his Laws.
Let’s go back to Romans 5:1 now and finish this part. From here Paul very clearly makes his point over the next 4 verses, they verify why Jesus was here in the 1st place. As a recap we know that our faith gives us peace in God, but only through Jesus. <2>By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. <3> And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also; knowing that tribulation works patience;<4> And patience, experience; and experience, hope: <5> And hope makes us not ashamed; because the love God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us. So through, this chain we see that we need the tribulations (or trials), the grief and heart ache in our life, from working the Laws of God in order to appreciate, the value God puts into us. That is one thing we are not told nearly enough is it. But it can only come from the patience we acquire by having the Spirit which we receive from working the Laws, Which also runs us back to the Gospel, and the 2 fundamental laws, which should make way more sense now, it is very curious how we can simply put aside this: Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind and soul & <31> Love your neighbour as yourself. We are told that all the Laws of God hang from these 2 as does all the prophecies, given in the OT, since it was in the OT that we have the Torah or Laws of God the first 5 books. I also mentioned the Great Commission and how the word was meant to be taught, through witnessing to others as to what it means to have the Lord in our life. Thus this warning from Jesus: Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. He gave many more as well. Mark 7:7 Howbeit(to fear) in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. <9> Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition, and Matthew 6:24 No man can serve 2 masters: for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will hold to one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mannon.(worldly wealth and earthly treasure) I hope you can see that there is no faith without the Laws, besides. without them what would we have faith in? Now, Romans 5:6 For when we were without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Verse 7 can be defined this way; would you punish a good child, no you reward them. However the extent of Verse 8 runs from 7, But God commanded His love toward us, in that, while we are yet sinners, Christ died for us. Verse 9 reaffirms this and verse 5. This brings us back to the beginning of this, with verse 10 and that the life of Christ is what will save us. Jesus chose to live his life according to the Laws as a living example how we need to do this. So we cannot be saved by faith alone, everything that has to do with faith shows we are required to live by the Laws of God that is the only way to build the faith that will save us. Each of the letters written by the disciples was to a specific culture with specific issues in dealing with the Laws of God and the same thing I did here can be repeated with each of the cultures in the Letters of the Apostles. Today learning how those cultures were taught is how we learn and in turn teach others. Through our life.
A number of people in here seemed to have a serious issue with what I believe in. Well, I grew up understanding that we shouldn't have to answer to those assumptions made about us. Luckily for them I never really adhered to that either. Even Jesus our saviour, living according to the Law defended His lifestyle in the Law or Torah.
your brother in Christ
This takes us to the Gospel of John 15:1>17, Jesus Is The True Vine John, being the most aristocratic disciple, that is to say, his writings, especially his Gospel were done the same way as the Old Hebrew and Judean masters, in contrasts. While maintaining Jesus’ use of common things to teach spiritual truth. This chapter to verse 17 in my mind really defines what TRUE CHRISTIANITY is about and really adds both meaning and value to Romans 5:10 entry.(The term TRUE CHRISTIANITY as far as I know, I am the only one that has used it. I use it to draw the distinct difference between the Ministry of Christ and Religious Doctrine). I must however finish my point from the opening sentence because it is increasingly apparent that through Religious Doctrine much of what Jesus taught has been put aside. This is how, since you have seen the link to the Gospel (The Laws of God), we must understand what the Letters of the Apostle were. By order of “The Word”, the risen Jesus, they were the eyewitness testimony to Jesus’ life by the disciples. We know this from all 4 Gospels Mt 28:16>20, Mk 16:14>18, Lk 24:36>49, Jn 20:19>23 & Acts 1:6>11 The Great Commission, which in turn has been passed down through the generations by those who believed only in the Ministry of Christ, their lives having been both touched by his most powerful hand and has accepted him and his life truly into their hearts and lived that way. This is the only way to really see and understand with our heart the parables Jesus used to explain his Laws.
Let’s go back to Romans 5:1 now and finish this part. From here Paul very clearly makes his point over the next 4 verses, they verify why Jesus was here in the 1st place. As a recap we know that our faith gives us peace in God, but only through Jesus. <2>By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. <3> And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also; knowing that tribulation works patience;<4> And patience, experience; and experience, hope: <5> And hope makes us not ashamed; because the love God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us. So through, this chain we see that we need the tribulations (or trials), the grief and heart ache in our life, from working the Laws of God in order to appreciate, the value God puts into us. That is one thing we are not told nearly enough is it. But it can only come from the patience we acquire by having the Spirit which we receive from working the Laws, Which also runs us back to the Gospel, and the 2 fundamental laws, which should make way more sense now, it is very curious how we can simply put aside this: Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind and soul & <31> Love your neighbour as yourself. We are told that all the Laws of God hang from these 2 as does all the prophecies, given in the OT, since it was in the OT that we have the Torah or Laws of God the first 5 books. I also mentioned the Great Commission and how the word was meant to be taught, through witnessing to others as to what it means to have the Lord in our life. Thus this warning from Jesus: Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. He gave many more as well. Mark 7:7 Howbeit(to fear) in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. <9> Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition, and Matthew 6:24 No man can serve 2 masters: for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will hold to one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mannon.(worldly wealth and earthly treasure) I hope you can see that there is no faith without the Laws, besides. without them what would we have faith in? Now, Romans 5:6 For when we were without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Verse 7 can be defined this way; would you punish a good child, no you reward them. However the extent of Verse 8 runs from 7, But God commanded His love toward us, in that, while we are yet sinners, Christ died for us. Verse 9 reaffirms this and verse 5. This brings us back to the beginning of this, with verse 10 and that the life of Christ is what will save us. Jesus chose to live his life according to the Laws as a living example how we need to do this. So we cannot be saved by faith alone, everything that has to do with faith shows we are required to live by the Laws of God that is the only way to build the faith that will save us. Each of the letters written by the disciples was to a specific culture with specific issues in dealing with the Laws of God and the same thing I did here can be repeated with each of the cultures in the Letters of the Apostles. Today learning how those cultures were taught is how we learn and in turn teach others. Through our life.
A number of people in here seemed to have a serious issue with what I believe in. Well, I grew up understanding that we shouldn't have to answer to those assumptions made about us. Luckily for them I never really adhered to that either. Even Jesus our saviour, living according to the Law defended His lifestyle in the Law or Torah.
your brother in Christ