Beware of Rapture Ready

[Christ4Ever]

Persecution is not made up or make believe, nor exaggerated. We may only to date have to endure unbelief and scoffers, but elsewhere
Christians of many faiths are copping it in the neck.

You read what you want to read brother. I said "CAN" in my post. If you do not believe this then clearly you are only seeing what you want to see. So, are you doing this on purpose or do you not understand what I wrote to you?

I am well aware of what is going on around the world, both openly and behind the scenes which only the Father in Heaven sees. However, I am deleting this, because this is not the place or the thread for it.

You are on fire for the Lord and feel the bile rise up in you when you face believers who are not as you are. Still, please keep in mind that they are still your Brothers & Sisters in Christ, even though they may not meet your expectations.

YBIC
C4E
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[Ophel]

Okay for anyone to answer.
When is the day of the Lord?

Which one? Lol

 

[Ophel]

WARNING THE FOLLOWING VIDEO CHALLENGES THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE THEORY AND ALSO PROMOTES CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISM

WARNING: THIS VIDEO TRASHES MEN AND WOMEN OF GOD, ANOINTED AND CALLED TO DO WHAT WE OURSELVES OUGHT TO BE TEACHING...AND PROMOTES ONE PERSON'S VIEW. BE WARY OF SOLO ACTS.

 

[Ophel]

well there lies the crux of the problem - who are believers and in what? Who are unbelievers, what is it that they do not believe?
Who or what is "The Church?"
Generally, the answers are pretty namby pamby and all embracing.
All true believers in Christ Jesus! That might be a significantly smaller population than most think. True believers MUST worship in Spirit and in truth.
Jesus said that believers would have these signs following (Mark 16:15-20) yet most Christians deny this and have no such signs as promised by Jesus.
THE CHURCH let's not leave anybody out. Every preacher and every evangelist and pretty well every faith claims to be THE CHURCH.

I believe that those who will be spared this great and terrible sequence of tribulations - war, nuclear and conventional, radiation poisoning (wormwood), pestilence,
collapse of the economy and law and order, social chaos, etc. etc. an asteroid coming down it would seem, earthquakes, tsunamis and much more -
are the saints - that is those who believe and practice the original Pentecostal Apostolic gospel with signs following.

If you do not have this then you are an unbeliever and not of THE CHURCH. Read the scriptures, read Acts, read the epistles.

Yes the saints are spared because the saints will be enjoying the wedding of the Lamd...as THE BRIDE!

Stop your ridiculous accusations of delusion and accusations and/or suggestions that anyone is an unbeliever.

 

[Waggles]

Stop your ridiculous accusations of delusion and accusations and/or suggestions that anyone is an unbeliever.

You need to take this up with Jesus - he sets the standard. I am only believing in his words. Reaffirmed by no less than the Apostles.

And he [Jesus] said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mark 16:17
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mark 16:18

Jesus tells us clearly and without confusion what shall prove belief and obedience to the gospel once delivered to the saints. No ifs and buts.
This is what Acts and the epistles are all about. Nothing else.
And these signs of the miraculous along with Holy Spirit revival whereby thousands upon thousands of people around the world are being converted to the gospel of salvation in accordance with Acts 2:38 proves yet again that the original Apostolic gospel is valid and real for today as always.
Being born new by full immersion water baptism, repentance and confession of their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, along with Holy Spirit baptism with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 3:2-3

Here is a testimony of a woman being converted from religion to the gospel preached by Jesus
http://miracles.areonthe.net/TESTIMONY Collection/TESTIMONY POSTERS/TESTIMONY Posters/Gunnar, West London, UK.pdf

 

[Ophel]

You need to take this up with Jesus - he sets the standard. I am only believing in his words. Reaffirmed by no less than the Apostles.

You do. I already have, thanks. I don't have religion. I have Jesus.

 

[Steven]

Which one? Lol

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works therein shall be burned up.
1 Thessalonians 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night

To say that the day of the Lord is more then one day is not only speculation, it is unscriptural.
Sound doctrine comes from sound scripture.

 

[Ophel]

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works therein shall be burned up.
1 Thessalonians 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night

To say that the day of the Lord is more then one day is not only speculation, it is unscriptural.
Sound doctrine comes from sound scripture.

Scripture speaks of other Days of the Lord in addition to the bodily coming of the Lord.

 

[Steven]

Scripture speaks of other Days of the Lord in addition to the bodily coming of the Lord.

Thanks for your responses sister. Our God is Faithful!!!

 

[Waggles]

Scripture speaks of other Days of the Lord in addition to the bodily coming of the Lord.

?????? Really. That's news to rest of us.

 

[Sue J Love]

When I first became a Christian some thirty or so years ago all my friends believed in a pre-tribulation rapture and it seemed that all the churches i went to had the same teachings. i was neutral on the subject because i really liked the idea of a rapture that could occur at any time. But i just could not find any real scripture that told me that this was true. So i left it alone until several years later i decided to do some studying on it and the more i studied the more i found sound scripture that pointed not to a pre tribulation rapture but a post tribulation rapture. Every scripture that a pre tribulation rapture believer presented was speculative at best. I believe in sound scripture for sound doctrine. Psalms 12:6 For the words of the Lord are pure words, as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. If Christians choose to believe in a pre tribulation rapture that does not make them any less Christian. But I fear that many will be offended by the Gospel when great persecution and tribulation comes to the American churches.

@Steven - Welcome to TJ forums. I believe in a post-tribulation rapture return of Christ, but I don't argue the subject with people. I do believe that the pre-trib rapture belief is not that old and that it is primarily an American belief. It seems to be taught much with OSAS, but it may go beyond that, I don't know. My concern with it, as you say, is that it is not scripturally supported, and scripture strongly leans more toward the post-trib rapture belief. Also, I see the American mind-set in it, which is all about us not having to suffer, when Jesus told us we would suffer, be hated, rejected, persecuted, arrested and killed for our faith. America has not known much persecution of Christians yet, but it is coming, and the beginnings of it are already here. I don't believe we are that long from seeing some serious persecution of Christians in America among those who stand strong on the Word of God, who walk in obedience to Christ, and who share the full gospel message of salvation from sin. We are already under the firing line. It is obvious in Obama's and the Pope's messages. There are plans in the making to go after us big time. Yet, I think the institutional church is going to face some persecution in the near future, as well, and they have been building a case for that presently. I believe the 501c3 will come back to bite the church.

 

[Curtis]

The early Churches were taught by the Apostle Paul and Peter about the rapture, and the day of the Lord. But, there were many false teachers teaching things that were wrong, in fact there were false "epistles", and "letters" written to these Churches with the Apostle Paul's name "forged" at the bottom as coming from him. They were told that the day of the Lord had already come, and now they (the Church) had to go through the tribulation period!! This was totally false in those days just like it is also taught today by that same spirit of error. Paul says there were letters forged as coming from himself, and Peter.

2Th 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Paul begins 2 Thessalonians by describing what he was going to talk to them about.

2Th 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,

There are two topics here. One is about the day of the Lord, and the other is about our being gathered together to Jesus. (the rapture) They are not the same event as they will take place at two different times. The day of the Lord will not happen until three things happen first. (1) there will be an apostasy or falling away from the faith. This is happening today. (2) the man of sin, or the lawless one (Antichrist) must be revealed first. The tribulation period can not happen, it can not even begin to start until the Antichrist is first revealed because he will be the one who causes it. Let no man deceive you into thinking other wise, or that the Church will go through the tribulation period.

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Notice: the third (3) event that must happen before the Antichrist (lawless one), is revealed is that the one who is "restraining" this Antichrist from being revealed is taken "out of the way" The one who is restraining will keep on restraining until he is taken out of the way, so that the lawless one (Antichrist) can be revealed!!!

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

Who do you suppose it is who is restraining the lawless one from being revealed? Who alone has the power to bind the powers of darkness, and have "authority" over the works of darkness? Who did Jesus give this authority to?

Luke 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the
uttermost part of the earth.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

To "bind" is to "restrain" a subject. The powers of darkness are being restrained by the Church, and it will continue to restrain until "he" the Church is taken out of the way!!! (the rapture) and this happens before the Antichrist is revealed, which will be the beginning of the tribulation period.

God would not allow the flood to destroy the earth until Noah, and his family were safe from harm by the Ark. God would not destroy Sodom until all the righteous were safely out of the way!!!

 

[Steven]

The early Churches were taught by the Apostle Paul and Peter about the rapture, and the day of the Lord. But, there were many false teachers teaching things that were wrong, in fact there were false "epistles", and "letters" written to these Churches with the Apostle Paul's name "forged" at the bottom as coming from him. They were told that the day of the Lord had already come, and now they (the Church) had to go through the tribulation period!! This was totally false in those days just like it is also taught today by that same spirit of error. Paul says there were letters forged as coming from himself, and Peter.

2Th 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Paul begins 2 Thessalonians by describing what he was going to talk to them about.

2Th 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,

There are two topics here. One is about the day of the Lord, and the other is about our being gathered together to Jesus. (the rapture) They are not the same event as they will take place at two different times. The day of the Lord will not happen until three things happen first. (1) there will be an apostasy or falling away from the faith. This is happening today. (2) the man of sin, or the lawless one (Antichrist) must be revealed first. The tribulation period can not happen, it can not even begin to start until the Antichrist is first revealed because he will be the one who causes it. Let no man deceive you into thinking other wise, or that the Church will go through the tribulation period.

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Notice: the third (3) event that must happen before the Antichrist (lawless one), is revealed is that the one who is "restraining" this Antichrist from being revealed is taken "out of the way" The one who is restraining will keep on restraining until he is taken out of the way, so that the lawless one (Antichrist) can be revealed!!!

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

Who do you suppose it is who is restraining the lawless one from being revealed? Who alone has the power to bind the powers of darkness, and have "authority" over the works of darkness? Who did Jesus give this authority to?

Luke 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the
uttermost part of the earth.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

To "bind" is to "restrain" a subject. The powers of darkness are being restrained by the Church, and it will continue to restrain until "he" the Church is taken out of the way!!! (the rapture) and this happens before the Antichrist is revealed, which will be the beginning of the tribulation period.

God would not allow the flood to destroy the earth until Noah, and his family were safe from harm by the Ark. God would not destroy Sodom until all the righteous were safely out of the way!!!

I would really be hard pressed to read that much into 2 Thesalonians to get what your getting out of that. Everywhere I see in scripture that mentions the day of the Lord certainly appears to be the same day. Everywhere "the last day" is mentioned certainly appears to be the same day. And most of Mattew 24 speaks of that same day. The last day; John 6:40, 6:44, 6:54, 7:37, 11:24, 12:48. Even Martha knew that the resurrection would occur on the last day. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. I believe that sound scripture will speak for itself. If I would have to give a lot of explanation for what scripture is saying, then I would look somewhere else.

 

[Steven]

The early Churches were taught by the Apostle Paul and Peter about the rapture, and the day of the Lord. But, there were many false teachers teaching things that were wrong, in fact there were false "epistles", and "letters" written to these Churches with the Apostle Paul's name "forged" at the bottom as coming from him. They were told that the day of the Lord had already come, and now they (the Church) had to go through the tribulation period!! This was totally false in those days just like it is also taught today by that same spirit of error. Paul says there were letters forged as coming from himself, and Peter.

2Th 2:2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Paul begins 2 Thessalonians by describing what he was going to talk to them about.

2Th 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,

There are two topics here. One is about the day of the Lord, and the other is about our being gathered together to Jesus. (the rapture) They are not the same event as they will take place at two different times. The day of the Lord will not happen until three things happen first. (1) there will be an apostasy or falling away from the faith. This is happening today. (2) the man of sin, or the lawless one (Antichrist) must be revealed first. The tribulation period can not happen, it can not even begin to start until the Antichrist is first revealed because he will be the one who causes it. Let no man deceive you into thinking other wise, or that the Church will go through the tribulation period.

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Notice: the third (3) event that must happen before the Antichrist (lawless one), is revealed is that the one who is "restraining" this Antichrist from being revealed is taken "out of the way" The one who is restraining will keep on restraining until he is taken out of the way, so that the lawless one (Antichrist) can be revealed!!!

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

Who do you suppose it is who is restraining the lawless one from being revealed? Who alone has the power to bind the powers of darkness, and have "authority" over the works of darkness? Who did Jesus give this authority to?

Luke 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the
uttermost part of the earth.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

To "bind" is to "restrain" a subject. The powers of darkness are being restrained by the Church, and it will continue to restrain until "he" the Church is taken out of the way!!! (the rapture) and this happens before the Antichrist is revealed, which will be the beginning of the tribulation period.

God would not allow the flood to destroy the earth until Noah, and his family were safe from harm by the Ark. God would not destroy Sodom until all the righteous were safely out of the way!!!

In 2 Timothy 4:3,4 Pauls speaks of teachers with itching ears. I don't want to read too much into it but it appears to me that a teacher with itching ears is teacher who has to put a lot of thought into a scripture to get something else out of it then whats really there. 2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn their ears away from the truth, and they shall be turned unto fables.

 

[Steven]

A letter from Thomas Spurgeon “Charles Spurgeon believed that the Baptist faith was exactly the same as the early Church under the Apostles and he taught that. Yet today if he was applying for a job as a pastor in a Baptist church and he told them how he believed about the Rapture and the Resurrection he would be rejected. His scriptural understanding and messages are praised by many and they often place him at the top of the list for their spiritual leadership. But there are things in Prophecy that he taught that the Baptist would reject as heresy. One of the reasons many do not know what CH Spurgeon taught on Prophecy was the fact that he never preached in direct messages such as a sermon on the rapture or end times. But we know what he believed by what he included in his messages of salvation and enlightenment because he often included his belief in prophecy in the message itself rather than it being the main topic of his sermon.

What most believers do not know is that Charles Spurgeon believed that the Rapture and Resurrection would happen at the same time following the Great Tribulation. That the judgement seat of Christ would happen and Satan would be bond for a thousand years He also believed that Jesus would then literally set up his kingdom on earth and rule for a thousand years. He believed that a second resurrection would occur after the thousand-year reign for the unrighteous dead. This would be followed by the great white throne judgement of God and then there would be a new heaven and a new earth.

During Spurgeon’s day there was another preacher that people today believe was a knowledgeable man on prophecy. His name was John Darby. It is amazing to me that the Baptist organization would accept his teachings over Charles Spurgeon. Charles did not care for the teachings of Darby and if he were alive today would be preaching in direct opposition to him. He did it back then and he would continue to do it today. What I am referring to is the belief that the Rapture and Resurrection would occur before the tribulation. How could anyone believe that Darby had a greater understanding than what CH Spurgeon did? Spurgeon was not ignorant when it came to prophetic teachings and took them just as serious as his teachings on grace because he wanted his listeners to know the truth. However his main focus was on the cross of Christ and Salvation because he felt that it was more important than prophecy, however he did include prophecy teachings in his preaching and teaching. He did not reject end-time prophecy or think that it was wrong to be enlightened by it.”
An article at www.spurgeon.org/mainpage.htmlhad the following to say:
·Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Pastor of the Metropolitan Tabernacle and contemporary of Darby published criticism of Darby and Brethrenism. His main criticism was that Darby and the Plymouth Brethren rejected the vicarious purpose of Christ's obedience as well as imputed righteousness. He viewed these of such importance and so central to the gospel that it led him to this statement about the rest of their belief. "With the deadly heresies entertained and taught by the Plymouth Brethren, in relation to some of the most momentous of all the doctrines of the gospel, and to which I have adverted at some length, I feel assured that my readers will not be surprised at any other views, however unscriptural and pernicious they may be, which the Darbyites have embraced and zealously seek to propagate"

 

[Curtis]

I would really be hard pressed to read that much into 2 Thesalonians to get what your getting out of that. Everywhere I see in scripture that mentions the day of the Lord certainly appears to be the same day. Everywhere "the last day" is mentioned certainly appears to be the same day. And most of Mattew 24 speaks of that same day. The last day; John 6:40, 6:44, 6:54, 7:37, 11:24, 12:48. Even Martha knew that the resurrection would occur on the last day. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. I believe that sound scripture will speak for itself. If I would have to give a lot of explanation for what scripture is saying, then I would look somewhere else.

The reason you are having such a hard time understanding the rapture is because you do not understand the harvest, in which God taught Israel to observe for hundreds of years in the Old Testament. The "Day of the Lord" is mentioned 19 times in the Old Testament, and only 4 times in the New. The Day of the Lord is always depicted as a day of judgement. The rapture of the Church is not a day of judgement. Every harvest is made up of three separate events. (1) the first fruits which were gathered first were offered to God as a offering. Jesus is known as the "first fruits" who has died, and offered to God. 1 Cor 15:20 (2) the second part of every harvest is the "main harvest" which to the Church would be known as the "rapture" which happens before the tribulation period, and before the man of sin is revealed to the world. (3) The last part of every harvest is called "the Gleaning". This happens after the first fruits are offered, and after the main harvest has been completed. They (Israel) would go back to the fields and pickup any parts of the wheat that had fallen to the ground. This is what will happen to the "tribulation" saints that receive salvation while going through the tribulation period, and are risen at the second coming of Christ who comes to bring judgement upon the earth. If you do not understand this you will never understand anything concerning the the rapture or the resurrection of the saints. In God's eyes he sees these three events as "one" harvest not three, but since there is time in between these three events we see them as three because we are the ones subject to time. At the second coming, of Jesus or also known as the day of the Lord, he (Jesus) is bringing all of his saints to make war and to bring judgement upon the earth. 1 Thes 3:13. Go back and study the harvest in the Old Testament, and see how Israel for hundreds of years practiced this observance, just to make sure that we the Church today could fully understand it's meaning concerning the resurrection.

 

[Steven]

The reason you are having such a hard time understanding the rapture is because you do not understand the harvest, in which God taught Israel to observe for hundreds of years in the Old Testament. The "Day of the Lord" is mentioned 19 times in the Old Testament, and only 4 times in the New. The Day of the Lord is always depicted as a day of judgement. The rapture of the Church is not a day of judgement. Every harvest is made up of three separate events. (1) the first fruits which were gathered first were offered to God as a offering. Jesus is known as the "first fruits" who has died, and offered to God. 1 Cor 15:20 (2) the second part of every harvest is the "main harvest" which to the Church would be known as the "rapture" which happens before the tribulation period, and before the man of sin is revealed to the world. (3) The last part of every harvest is called "the Gleaning". This happens after the first fruits are offered, and after the main harvest has been completed. They (Israel) would go back to the fields and pickup any parts of the wheat that had fallen to the ground. This is what will happen to the "tribulation" saints that receive salvation while going through the tribulation period, and are risen at the second coming of Christ who comes to bring judgement upon the earth. If you do not understand this you will never understand anything concerning the the rapture or the resurrection of the saints. In God's eyes he sees these three events as "one" harvest not three, but since there is time in between these three events we see them as three because we are the ones subject to time. At the second coming, of Jesus or also known as the day of the Lord, he (Jesus) is bringing all of his saints to make war and to bring judgement upon the earth. 1 Thes 3:13. Go back and study the harvest in the Old Testament, and see how Israel for hundreds of years practiced this observance, just to make sure that we the Church today could fully understand it's meaning concerning the resurrection.

Thank you brother for showing me your point of view on this difficult subject. In Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me, and when you seek me with all of your heart it is then you will find me. I also believe that if we seek truth with all of our hearts it then we will find him. In the mist of that truth.

 

[norapture]

Lot of people believe pre-trip rapture, but they can read in Revelation about many saint being killed during the tribulation , by the ant-christ, not by Gods wrath , but Satan's wrath even in the book of Daniel.
So what makes one think they are any better than the saints who are beheaded for Christ , that they have a free ticket to excape this time of tribulation .
Was not Gods people in Egypt, when he plagued pharaoh and the Egyptian's.
Will not Gods people also be here when his plagues are poured out on Satan and his people ( yes they will )

St John 17: 15 ---I pray not that thou should take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Now if you know St John 17 this was Jesus's prayer to the father rite before they came got him to crucify him.
So to say he is coming to take us out of the world, would be to say the father doesn't hear him , but we know he always heard him.

Then some might say he was just talking about the ones who was with him at that time.
But know this prayer was not for them only.

St John 17: 20--- Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word .
I have seen many say , well it really don't matter which way we believed, but only one can be the truth, and the other would be a lie , so what should we say the truth really don't matter, cause it matters to God

St John 17: 19-- And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
((( The Truth)))))

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these thinks, which are some thinks hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

So most think Paul spoke of Jesus coming back before the tribulation.

So I make this challenge show in scripture where Jesus said he was coming back before the tribulation
Or could it be so many as misunderstood what Paul was saying.

So can anyone show scripture where Jesus said he was coming back before the tribulation?

 

[Waggles]

If you do not understand this you will never understand anything concerning the the rapture or the resurrection of the saints.

Your speculation on the rapture before the second coming of Christ who comes first in secret and whisks away saints for 7 years, and all that fantasy is just that, fantasy.
I don't know why Americans have developed this rather imaginative story about the 70 weeks of Daniel being way out in the future, and some supposed world dictator
with supernatural powers, and everybody getting a barcode printed on them. Secret raptures. Christians supposedly being saved from great ordeals inflicted on the remaining
population. I think you guys watch too much Hollywood and get too much end times scenarios from TV evangelists.

It is going to be really tragic for millions of left-behind believers when none of this happens. You will be left without true faith built upon the rock of knowledge of the
scriptures. You should demand your money back from all these preachers of false promises. How will people have faith when what they have been promised by
the big guns of American evangelism does not eventuate. Not only has American Christianity deteriorated into a blessings gospel of prosperity, but also a gospel
of we will not suffer, and up up and away we go ,(while the Christians in the rest of the world are already suffering much persecution,
violence and martyrdom - how come Christians doing it bad today, right now are not being raptured up???).

Christians are meant to go through ordeals and trials and tribulations. It is what it is all about. We are to seek the Lord for our safety and security,
not to be beamed up out of harm's way. That is non-Christian rubbish.

@Steven
The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe. Proverbs 18:10
Psalm 91:2-10
I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; [missiles]
Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. [nuclear fallout]
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Much here is describing modern and nuclear warfare of our times.

Revelation 8:11
And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters,
because they were made bitter. A pretty good guess is that this refers to radiation poisoning of waters (and also land, crops, food, trees, etc...)
Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Again divine protection for those who are truly baptized in the Holy Spirit. [his truth shall be thy shield and buckler]
Luke 21:34-36
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life,
and so that day come upon you unawares.
For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of man.
Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days:
be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

This is what Christian faithfulness is about - overcoming - staying the course - enduring to the end - being ambassadors unto the gospel and
Christ Jesus - enduring afflictions - it has always been about this - right from the beginning the Christian gospel was born in persecution and blood.
Persecution and enduring faithfulness will again bring hopefully many to the gospel of salvation.

 

[Ophel]

Some people who call what will happen a fantasy will be blown away when it happens. I hope to be caught up together with one or two to see the expression on their faces!