'Kept from' it doesn't mean removed from it. It means to be attended to carefully, taken care of and guarded.
Can anyone be filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb, even though He is only given to believers?
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No it doesn't mean removed from. It means to preserve, to attend to carefully, to guard. Metaphorically it means to keep, one in the state in which he is. Pre-tribbers have had to change the meaning of several words AND several events to make it fit and make it attractive. There's over a dozen words and verses they've changed, and several additions like devising two raptures and two returns of Christ.
Why "metaphorically" it means......
As a pre-tribber -- I've never heard of two raptures --- as for two returns of Christ. He came the 1st time as a babe in the manger -- the second coming will be to earth Again but as Jesus Christ the supreme , totally righteous ruler for those 1,000 yrs. So He's actually only Returning once. So -- you might want to recheck your sources as to what us pre-tribbers are believing.
As a pre-tribber -- I've never heard of two raptures --- as for two returns of Christ. He came the 1st time as a babe in the manger -- the second coming will be to earth Again but as Jesus Christ the supreme , totally righteous ruler for those 1,000 yrs. So He's actually only Returning once. So -- you might want to recheck your sources as to what us pre-tribbers are believing.
Pre-trib teaches one rapture for believers before tribulation, and one for Jews toward the end - probably in Revelation 14. (which is where the rapture of all believers takes place anyway) In fact, they claim that the gathering of the elect Jesus mentions in Mathew 24 is a rapture of Jews. They say "the elect" refers to Jews. Why? Because the text clearly states the gathering happens AFTER the tribulation literally debunking pre-trib, so they had to counter that contradiction and change the class of people being gathered from Christians to Jews creating a total of two raptures.
Jesus said, v.29 - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days... v.30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: V. 31 - And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
@saginon -- Rev. 14 is talking about the 144,000 who have been sealed going into the 7 yrs of tribulation as they go out to evangelize the Jewish population During those seven years. which is AFter the Church has been lifted up and out. vs 37 - 44 is talking about the rapture in Matthew 24. Talking about the one and only rapture.
The rapture of the Church includes All people who have been born-again -- and That would include Jewish people who have accepted Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah.
If you'd simply put the rapture where it's Supposed to be -- there wouldn't be so much confusion. Who are the 'they' you are talking about.
The rapture of the Church includes All people who have been born-again -- and That would include Jewish people who have accepted Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah.
If you'd simply put the rapture where it's Supposed to be -- there wouldn't be so much confusion. Who are the 'they' you are talking about.
The rapture is not a confusing thing to understand, and that's why I'm not Pre-trib - which is the most contradictory and fabricated doctrine I know of.
I referred to THEY as all those in the pre-trib camp.
Pre-trib has broken down Christ return in 2 phases. The first is at the biginning of tribulation where Christ returns only "to the clouds" and raptures his elect. Then then say that is a different return than the "second coming" which they say happens 7 years later. This is where MOST of them ('they') say the rapture occurs...
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
However, some pre-tribbers say it happens here...
Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
I have never encountered a pre-tribber who says Mathew 24:29-31 is the rapture of the saints. They (pre-trib camp) ALL (I should say MOST) say that the 'elect' mentioned there in Mathew 24 is Jews. But, as of late, many of them have once again changed their tune because only a pre-tribber in denial would say that the word 'elect' represents Jews NOT 'BELIEVERS,' - BUT - 'most' of 'them' - pre-tribbers have said for years that the elect of Mathew 24 is JEWS because Jesus clearly says the gathering occurs AFTER the tribulation! SOME pre-tribbers NOW say the 'elect' of Mathew 24 are those who have come to know the Lord during the great tribulation period who have not been slain by the antichrist. IOW - the gathering Jesus is talking about is one that pre-tribbers have called 'tribulation saints!' So - the 'elect' has now been changed from Jews to 'tribulation saints! There still are hundred of videos on u-tube that claim the elect is 'Jews.'
Over the years pre-trib has been notorious for changing their tune. Whenever a pre-trib contradiction rises, (and there are dozens) a new fabrication surfaces.
If people enjoy being misled about the rapture just go to youtube, especially the intellectuals on the John Ankerberg show.
'People' Are notorious for taking passages of Scripture / single verses/ out of context and end up having Scripture 'say' all kinds of things that it doesn't really say.
Maybe there's a huge 'bottom line' here -- God's Word gives 'us' the way of salvation. It applies to Everyone ever born or Will be born. "we" choose to follow That and 'we're' all set and ready To go whenever the rapture Does take place. And Scripture Does tell us that God is Going to give His chosen people -- the Jews a second chance to accept Him as their Messiah. But They are the Only one's who Do get a 'second' chance. As to who the 'elect' Are? Only God knows that. His first chosen people Are the Jews. But since Scripture included the Gentiles - which means everyone else - His elect will include 'everyone'. The elect - God Chose? or God Knows? who will and who Won't accept His Son as their Savior. It's obvious that 'we' don't know who will or who Won't. So 'we' are told to share with Everyone. Everyone who is Willing To listen.
And, getting back on track -- Maybe it's a person's feelings towards Jews. Some don't like Jews for a variety of reasons. Jesus came into being as a Jew. Why have the Jews been God's chosen people?
There has been a theory that a guy named John Darby came up with it in the first place. Actually -- he found the Scripture that was already There that Does support it.
You Do find the more interesting people To slam. Apologetics is a very interesting area of study. Why a person believes that which they Do believe. But it is Not 'apologizing' for what a person Does believe.
Just think of all the things you're learning from me.
Maybe there's a huge 'bottom line' here -- God's Word gives 'us' the way of salvation. It applies to Everyone ever born or Will be born. "we" choose to follow That and 'we're' all set and ready To go whenever the rapture Does take place. And Scripture Does tell us that God is Going to give His chosen people -- the Jews a second chance to accept Him as their Messiah. But They are the Only one's who Do get a 'second' chance. As to who the 'elect' Are? Only God knows that. His first chosen people Are the Jews. But since Scripture included the Gentiles - which means everyone else - His elect will include 'everyone'. The elect - God Chose? or God Knows? who will and who Won't accept His Son as their Savior. It's obvious that 'we' don't know who will or who Won't. So 'we' are told to share with Everyone. Everyone who is Willing To listen.
And, getting back on track -- Maybe it's a person's feelings towards Jews. Some don't like Jews for a variety of reasons. Jesus came into being as a Jew. Why have the Jews been God's chosen people?
There has been a theory that a guy named John Darby came up with it in the first place. Actually -- he found the Scripture that was already There that Does support it.
You Do find the more interesting people To slam. Apologetics is a very interesting area of study. Why a person believes that which they Do believe. But it is Not 'apologizing' for what a person Does believe.
Just think of all the things you're learning from me.
Pretrib is much older. Hermas talked about pretrib.
4 The Rapture
THE RAPTURE John 14:3 "If I go away, and prepare a place for you, I will come again..." Acts 1:11 "this same Jesus, who is taken up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go up into heaven.' There is a difference between the rapture of the church and the...
www.armyofprophets.com
The occult ones talk about a rapture and the magi knew when Jesus was born.
@newname -- I clicked into The Rapture article -- for one thing, Jude vs 14 - 15 if referring to the person, Enoch -- the 7th from Adam. Not the Book of Enoch.
And the Book of Barabas -- the part in quotes doesn't even Sound like Scripture.
And the 7,000 yr theory -- hmmm, no not really. There Are lots of types in Scripture -- but sometimes Lots gets stretched WAY out there. Kind of like elastic -- there is Natural stretch and then there is Too much stretch.
but in the first part of the article -- Yes.
And the Book of Barabas -- the part in quotes doesn't even Sound like Scripture.
And the 7,000 yr theory -- hmmm, no not really. There Are lots of types in Scripture -- but sometimes Lots gets stretched WAY out there. Kind of like elastic -- there is Natural stretch and then there is Too much stretch.
but in the first part of the article -- Yes.
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Rev 3:10 Because you have guarded and kept My word of patient endurance [have held fast the lesson of My patience with the expectant endurance that I give you], I also will keep you [safe] from the hour of trial (testing) which is coming on the whole world to try those who dwell upon the earth.
ek; before a vowel, ex. Prep. governing the gen., primarily meaning out of, from
The Greek word, "ek" refers to keeping someone "from", never keeping you "through!"
ek; before a vowel, ex. Prep. governing the gen., primarily meaning out of, from
The Greek word, "ek" refers to keeping someone "from", never keeping you "through!"
It was more to show that they believed it then and it's not made up in 1830. I don't think the hail virgin thing will convince much ppl that there is a pretrib rapture. 7000 years I don't know either, but He would raise Israel after 2 days. Enoch, I think there was another book from Enoch, cause the Bible quotes from it, but the one there is now, I don't know if that's from him.
