Can you Lose Your Salvation?

[Boanerges]

Jesus parable of the wheat and the tares describes several individuals who for various reasons like the sound and benefits of the gospel but never took it to heart.

Those who may seem saved but He looks at them and responds "I never knew you"- these were the seed on rocky ground, weed choked ground, etc. These indeed tasted of God but in the end preferred the world- they were never really His. The seed planted in good soil (a willing , yielded heart) are saved and bearing fruit comes natural.

1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The scripture above plainly demonstrates that those who fall away never really belonged to Christ.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Believe on the Lord and do not trust your own strength, you will be saved.

 

[SaviorNChrist]

I personally hold that a sinner saved by grace cannot lose their salvation. This is due to one key verse found in John "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" This is a promise that the Holy Spirit will remain with you forever.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

Additionally, those who speak of the unpardonable sin for a basis of losing salvation, forget one key verse that I never seen quoted by one who states it can be committed today, "Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit." Mark 3:30. The unpardonable sin cannot be committed today because we cannot physically see the miracles Jesus performed and attribute them to the devil.

We can however, quench (1 Thess 5:19) and grieve (Eph 4:30) the Holy Spirit, which is something different, but not conditional upon salvation.

Therefore, with plenty other scripture to back up my beliefs, I believe OSAS. Although, a true Christian can fall back, as we all have and/or will at one point, God is faithful to pick us up and continues to be faithful.

Psa 37:24 "Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand."
2 Tim 2:13 "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself."

Hope this helps, but don't take our words for it. Seek it out for yourself and pray on it. We all must give an account of our own walk at the bema seat, therefore it's best you know what you believe and why. God Bless!

 

[RJ]

The "Unpardonable Sin", God also refers to as " The Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" and they both mean one thing, the sin of unbelief.

For all true Christians, all of our sins are forgiven as a result of our belief and there is no condemnation those in Jesus Christ. All others will suffer the penalty of condemnation as a result of their "Unpardonable Sin"!

 

[SaviorNChrist]

Yes, I do believe obviously that the sin of unbelief will certainly send those to hell (atheists and idolators and such). Here is a great article on this subject What is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Can A Christian Commit it? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. However, I still see no proof that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit or the Unpardonable Sin can be committed by a TRUE BELIEVER today.

Please note that I am always looking for the truth and if the truth leads me to another thought that I have, then my thought changes to the truth.

Pro 27:17 "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

God Bless.

 

[RJ]

Yes, I do believe obviously that the sin of unbelief will certainly send those to hell (atheists and idolators and such). Here is a great article on this subject What is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Can A Christian Commit it? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. However, I still see no proof that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit or the Unpardonable Sin can be committed by a TRUE BELIEVER today.

Please note that I am always looking for the truth and if the truth leads me to another thought that I have, then my thought changes to the truth.

Pro 27:17 "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

God Bless.

You said:
I'm curious as to where you get that information from RJ. Here is a great article on this subject What is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Can A Christian Commit it? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (What is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Can A Christian Commit it? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry).

In your article, it is certainly possible that this is what the Pharisees considered " Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" but, they themselves demonstrated the height of "Unbelief". Also, your author Matt Slick, is wrong in saying: "By simply looking at the context it becomes apparent that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is saying that Jesus did His miracles by the power of the devil. This is unforgivable."

But Jesus is the one that coined the phrase " Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" and, He himself, explains what this blasphemy is in verses 31-32:

. ³¹"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. ³²"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come,"

The Pharisees would never understand but, what Jesus was explaining was to come in the new age that , he alone, was ushering in. And, that He would be responsible for the forgiveness of ALL sins, including the blasphemy of God.

But to be saved, this would require belief and the receiving of the Holy Spirit and your Spiritual Birth.
If you don't believe and then receive the Spirit, then this is the one unforgivable sin! It is fairly straight forward for us now, there is no forgiveness for unbelief ( Jesus Christ is the only way) but, the Pharisees had no clue.

 

[SaviorNChrist]

I am sorry, but I don’t see the definition in the scripture you quoted nor about Christ's revelation of forgiveness of all sins. I believe Jesus clearly defined what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is in Mark 3:28-30. It is in verse 30 that I totally agree with the author that the Pharisees committed this act, clearly in the context of Mark 3:20-30.

Mark 3:28-30 “I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they were saying “He has an evil spirit””. Jesus clearly condemed the Pharisees later on (Matt 23:33) for this unpardonable act.

The Pharisees obviously didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah (unbelief), but this sin wasn't about that, it was about attributing Christ's miracles to the devil. Some of the apostles didn't fully believe until later in their walk with Christ.

Any sin committed today can be forgiven under Christ's blood, but the continued unbelief or when a person turns away from the Holy Spirit calling (Heb 6:4-6), that will not be forgiven due to the fact that this non-believer never asked for forgiveness; it is my belief that this is clearly taught. My main point was that a genuine Christian will not have to worry about losing their salvation, it is promised by God.

BTW, I’m not sure what you mean about your comment “If you don’t believe and then receive the Spirit”; how can one receive the Spirit if he/she doesn’t believe?

We have a responsibility to be sure what we’re teaching is accurate (Gal 1:8-9). Again, I am not trying to argue but trying to ensure that we are all sharpening each others knowledge and truly helping those who are looking for answers.

 

[RJ]

I am sorry, but I don’t see the definition in the scripture you quoted nor about Christ's revelation of forgiveness of all sins. I believe Jesus clearly defined what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is in Mark 3:28-30.

Matt 3:28-30 “I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they were saying “He has an evil spirit””. Jesus clearly condemmed the Pharisees later on (Matt 23:33) for this unpardonable act.

it is my belief that this is clearly taught. My main point was that a genuine Christian will not have to worry about losing their salvation, it is promised by God.

BTW, I’m not sure what you mean about your comment “If you don’t believe and then receive the Spirit”; how can one receive the Spirit if he/she doesn’t believe?

We have a responsibility to be sure what we’re teaching is accurate (Gal 1:8-9). Again, I am not trying to argue but trying to ensure that we are all sharpening each others knowledge and truly helping those who are looking for answers.

I am not arguing with you, I believe we are, for the most part we are saying the same thing. Please let me clarify;

1. You said:
I am sorry, but I don’t see the definition in the scripture you quoted nor about Christ's revelation of forgiveness of all sins

• The definition comes from the very foundation of our belief and understanding of salvation: Christ died for all and for all sins, never to look at them again. This is not a revelation of Jesus, it is a direct quote from God, was a prophecy and occurred @ 750 years before it was fulfilled with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is the foundation of forgiveness, If Jesus did not die for all of our sins, for all times, then our salvation would not be complete and it all would be a lie and we are lost.
• It is not just a belief that He died for our sins but also that He was resurrected and gives us spiritual, eternal life. St. Paul says that if you do not believe in the resurrection, you are to be pitied above all men.
• To be saved you must be Born Again. Born Again means to be born of the Spirit. If you are a Christian, you have 2 births, one of the Womb (water) and one of the Spirit.
• If you believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, you are indwelt with the living Spirit of God, this is the opposite of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit or unbelief.
• You can't receive the Holy Spirit if you don't first believe. Orthodox Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah or Savior, they therefore do not believe and have yet to receive the Holy Spirit as promised by God in the New Covenant; they continue to " Blasphemy the Holy Spirit".
• All out apostasy, the rejection of Jesus Christ, the lack of receiving of the Holy Spirit, is the same thing as the "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit"

2. You said:
Any sin committed today can be forgiven under Christ's blood, but the continued unbelief or when a person turns away from the Holy Spirit calling (Heb 6:4-6), that will not be forgiven due to the fact that this non-believer never asked for forgiveness;

Once truly save, always saved.In HEB 6: 4-6, Paul is referring to apostasy and non-believers, those that were not saved in the first place. In fact, he is saying that true believers can not commit Apostasy.

 

[Brighthouse]

One day a man goes out and buys a brand new wallet,he is so happy,he takes out the old wallet that is worn and torn, and throws it away.replacing it with his new wallet,but the the man did not examine himself. 2 Cor 13:5,he placed the wallet in his back pocket,which had a large tear in it. As he went to his car,he sat down,only to find his brand new wallet was gone.ANYTHING that can be found, can also be lost again. It is up to us to make sure we always stay in the Faith,we stay in God's Word,we always stay in love,for without LOVE, OUR faith has nowhere to go. Jesus came to save that which was lost,but the pen is not closed behind us,we can run away,and become lost once again,and if we are to far lost again.then Hebrews 6:4-6 can take effect. be not decieved my brothers and sister,that which a man soeth,be it good or bad,that shall he also reap.Either his harvest will have good rewards,or bad.Rev 22:12 BEHOLD I am coming quickly,and my reward is with ME, to render to every man according to what he has done. OR!!! NOT done!! what a man has saved,or what the man has lost! This to me is plain,this to me,is what this means.

 

[SaviorNChrist]

RJ, it does appear that we both come to the same conclusion, we just arrived from different locations. God bless you brother.

 

[RJ]

One day a man goes out and buys a brand new wallet,he is so happy,he takes out the old wallet that is worn and torn, and throws it away.replacing it with his new wallet,but the the man did not examine himself. 2 Cor 13:5,he placed the wallet in his back pocket,which had a large tear in it. As he went to his car,he sat down,only to find his brand new wallet was gone.ANYTHING that can be found, can also be lost again. It is up to us to make sure we always stay in the Faith,we stay in God's Word,we always stay in love,for without LOVE, OUR faith has nowhere to go. Jesus came to save that which was lost,but the pen is not closed behind us,we can run away,and become lost once again,and if we are to far lost again.then Hebrews 6:4-6 can take effect. be not decieved my brothers and sister,that which a man soeth,be it good or bad,that shall he also reap.Either his harvest will have good rewards,or bad.Rev 22:12 BEHOLD I am coming quickly,and my reward is with ME, to render to every man according to what he has done. OR!!! NOT done!! what a man has saved,or what the man has lost! This to me is plain,this to me,is what this means.

With all due love and respect, I think St. Paul would disagree with your analogy of HEB 6:4-6.

During this time, Paul had problems with spies in his midst, Orthodox Jews that were infiltrating the church. They would act like Christians only to eventually try and turn others back to Orthodoxy and the Law. They would tell others things like: That they believe and it's O.K. to worship Jesus Christ but you need to come back to the Synagogue and participate in sacrifices.
Paul was talking about , all out, Apostasy, the rejection of Jesus Christ's work. He was essentially saying that it was impossible to once truly receive the Holy Spirit and then fall away into unbelief. He was talking about those, in their midst, that were not save in the first place.

Many take HEB 6:4-6 out of context and even say that this is proof that once you are saved, you can loose it; nothing can be further from the truth. In fact, St. Paul is saying exactly the opposite : "Once truly saved, always saved!

To Paul, there would be no such thing as "too lost again" as you say!

 

[coachforChrist]

Jesus Saves

The Testimony of Divine Adoption
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
How happy are the new-born race,
Partakers of adopting grace!
How pure the bliss they share!
Hid from the world and all its eyes,
Within their heart the blessing lies,
And conscience feels it there.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
The moment we believe, ‘tis ours;
And if we love with all our powers
The God from whom it came;
And if we serve with hearts sincere,
‘Tis still discernible and clear,
An undisputed claim.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
But, ah! if foul and wilful sin
Stain and dishonour us within,
Farewell the joy we knew;
Again the slaves of nature’s sway,
In labyrinths of our own we stray,
Without a guide or clue.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
The chaste and pure, who fear to grieve
The gracious Spirit they receive,
His work distinctly trace;
And, strong in undissembling love,
Boldly assert and clearly prove
Their hearts his dwelling-place.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
Oh, messenger of dear delight,
Whose voice dispels the deepest night,
Sweet peace-proclaiming Dove!
With thee at hand, to soothe our pains,
No wish unsatisfied remains,
No task but that of love.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
‘Tis love unites what sin divides;
The centre, where all bliss resides;
To which the soul once brought,
Reclining on the first great cause,
From his abounding sweetness draws
Peace passing human thought.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
Sorrow forgoes its nature there,
And life assumes a tranquil air,
Divested of its woes;
There sovereign goodness soothes the breast,
Till then incapable of rest,
In sacred sure repose.

 

[Brighthouse]

R.J. With all love and respect,you are free to believe as you wish. I myself have two problems with yours. 1 Philp 2:12 So then my beloeved,just as you have always obeyed,not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,WORK OUT SALVATION WITH fear and trembling. IF we are always saved,we have no reason to ever fear salvation.2. Judas was a saved,a believer meant saved,same meaning. He lost his. As to hebrews 6:4-6 you may be correct,perhaps you are more learned,I am far from having total knowledge in God's Word! I only know, what the lord has taught me. 1 John 2:27 but show me one scritpure where man cannot lose, what he has? 1 peter 4:18-19 says. For is is time for judgement to begin with the household of God;and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18!! AND IF IT IS with GREAT DIFFICULTYTHAT THE RIGHTOUS IS SAVED,WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GOLDLESS MAN AND THE SINNER. This tells me Brother,what one does have,they can surly leave again. I will not argue,I hope you are right!! it sure would make my life a whole lot easyier!! But I just cannot see it that way!! blessing to you!

 

[coachforChrist]

God TRULY answers our INNERMOST PLEA

(Jesus said "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all;
and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
I and My Father are one.'' (John 10.27-30)

I am safely held in the palm of God's hand




How can we be sure? Only Jesus can give us HIS Blessed Assurance.


Basically God is truly saying to all...look people...if you TRULY desire Me, then you can Eternally Have Me...but you MUST TRUST AND SEEK AND LOVE ME WITH ALL YOUR HEART...OR ELSE YOU WILL DECEIVE your self and perish, unnecessarily, because you preferred other lesser things to Me, The Truly Good Eternal Life Who truly lives and loves within you, as Jesus, Our Truly Blessed Child in The Manger of Your Heart, Who is truly loving you, even now, with my Everlasting Love, waiting for you to show Me SINCERE PROOFS OF YOUR LOVE.


Do EXACTLY LIKE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE, WHO WE KNOW ARE ETERNALLY SAVED. Study what God and Jesus led King David and Joshua and Caleb to do



FOR EXAMPLE DO LIKE KING DAVID, and don't waste time if you have messed up, simply AND PRAY 51 EVERY DAY, to get right and stay right with God Our Truly Good Father and Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ alone forever.



The key is to GET INTO JESUS, OUR GOOD FATHER'S TRULY MERCIFUL HAND, AND THEN STAY AND ABIDE THERE FOREVERMORE...BY simply WHOLEHEARTED AND FOREVER
TRUST IN JESUS AND JESUS ALONE FOREVER, EVERY MOMENT, FOR ALL THINGS THAT WORRY US, INCLUDING OUR ETERNAL SALVATION.


(HEBREWS CHAPTERS 3 AND 4) (JOHN15) (PSALMS51)



If by God's Truly Blessed Saving Grace (Ephesians2:8,9), through true saving faith in Jesus and Jesus alone forever, God causes you to WHOLEHEARTEDLY TRULY AND FOREVER trust in Jesus and Jesus alone forever as your Only True Lord and Savior and God and King, and Salvation, and All In All, you can never lose Jesus.


However, if we do not WHOLEHEARTED TRUST AND SURRENDER ALL OF OURSELVES NOW, into the truly Merciful and Saving Arms of Jesus alone forever, WITHOUT ANY RESERVATION, then we are only fooling ourselves



WHOLEHEARTED TRUST IN JESUS AND JESUS ALONE FOREVER FOR EVERY THING THAT WORRIES YOU, INCLUDING YOUR ETERNAL SALVATION...is the Final Place of Rest that God desires to bring all who have every trusted in Christ.


However, the least Good lesser gift of God and/or temporary physical good or evil the thing that we do not WHOLEHEARTEDLY surrender into The Truly Merciful Hands of Jesus, prevents Eternal Divine Union Or Eternal Divine Marriage to Jesus, and therefore prevents us from having Blessed Assurance of Our Eternal Salvation


so what does God want us to do?


CASTING ALL YOUR CARE UPON JESUS, FOR JESUS TRULY CARES FOR YOU.


JESUS SAID, "HE WHO COMES TO ME, I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT.


It Is truly not God's Fault.


Most people perish because they HATED GOD WITHOUT A CAUSE...


==========



The Testimony of Divine Adoption - God Inspired Poem
by Jeanne Guyon

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
How happy are the new-born race,
Partakers of adopting grace!
How pure the bliss they share!
Hid from the world and all its eyes,
Within their heart the blessing lies,
And conscience feels it there.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
The moment we believe, ‘tis ours;
And if we love with all our powers
The God from whom it came;
And if we serve with hearts sincere,
‘Tis still discernible and clear,
An undisputed claim.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
But, ah! if foul and wilful sin
Stain and dishonour us within,
Farewell the joy we knew;
Again the slaves of nature’s sway,
In labyrinths of our own we stray,
Without a guide or clue.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
The chaste and pure, who fear to grieve
The gracious Spirit they receive,
His work distinctly trace;
And, strong in undissembling love,
Boldly assert and clearly prove
Their hearts his dwelling-place.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
Oh, messenger of dear delight,
Whose voice dispels the deepest night,
Sweet peace-proclaiming Dove!
With thee at hand, to soothe our pains,
No wish unsatisfied remains,
No task but that of love.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
‘Tis love unites what sin divides;
The centre, where all bliss resides;
To which the soul once brought,
Reclining on the first great cause,
From his abounding sweetness draws
Peace passing human thought.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
Sorrow forgoes its nature there,
And life assumes a tranquil air,
Divested of its woes;
There sovereign goodness soothes the breast,
Till then incapable of rest,
In sacred sure repose.

 

[coachforChrist]

The Entire Surrender to Jesus AND JESUS ALONE FOREVER

LUKE22:31,32,
"31And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

==========

The Only Reason why Peter was saved, and that Judas perished,
is because by The Grace of God alone forever, though simply faith in God and Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ alone forever, Peter chose to believe in Jesus and Jesus alone with simple MUSTARD SEED FAITH, in Jesus and Jesus alone forever, for His Eternal Salvation.
And even though Peter's faith in Christ was VERY imperfect...Jesus Himself, Our Truly Blessed Lord and Savior and God and King, and All in All, took up Peter's slack.

All Glory be unto The Holy Name of Jesus alone forever.
Amen Alleluia and Amen

We must simply and WHOLEHEARTEDLY AND FOREVERMORE,
TRUST TRUST TRUST in God and Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ alone forever, every moment, AND FOREVER, for every thing that troubles us, even our Eternal Salvation.

We even have to trust Christ alone forever, to keep us trusting Christ alone forever.

But don't despair, Jesus Himself, Who cannot fail, is praying for us,

For Jesus truly said to all, in John 17:9,
"I pray for them: I pray not for the world,
but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

but you will never KNOW that you are saved or have truly blessed assurance about your Eternal Salvation in Christ UNTIL YOU TRULY CHOOSE TO DO EVERY THING GOD'S WAY OF WHOLEHEARTED TRUST AND WHOLEHEARTED CASTING OF ALL OF YOUR CARE INTO THE TRULY MERCIFUL HANDS OF JESUS ALONE FOREVER, EVERY MOMENT.

What God told The True Apostle Paul, was to "work out your Salvation, with fear and trembling."

How do you do this you may ask?

You simply WHOLEHEARTEDLY WHOLEHEARTEDLY WHOLEHEARTEDLY
BEG JESUS AND JESUS ALONE FOREVER WITHIN YOU,
TO SAVE YOU LIKE THE BLIND BEGGARS IN THE BIBLE

JESUS, THOU SON OF DAVID, HAVE MERCY UPON US...
OR BEG GOD BE MERCIFUL TO ME A SINNER...
OR BEG JESUS LIKE THE TRULY REPENTANT THIEF ON THE CROSS...
LORD JESUS, PLEASE RE-MEMBER ME, RE-UNITE ME WITH YOURSELF IN YOUR KINGDOM OF LOVE
OR BEG LIKE KING DAVID IN
AS A TRULY BLESSED ASSURANCE AS THE TRUE APOSTLE PAUL AND THE TRUE APOSTLE JOHN AND KING DAVID DID...UNTO YOU SIMPLY do do do...EVERY THING THAT GOD CAUSED THEM TO DO

==========

GOD WANTS ONLY 2 THINGS FROM US...HE WILL DO ALL THE REST

1 - SIMPLE, WHOLEHEARTED, FOREVER TRUST IN GOD AND OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS AND JESUS ALONE FOREVER
2 - SIMPLE, WHOLEHEARTED, FOREVER SURRENDER OF OUR EVIL WILLS INTO THE TRULY MERCIFUL ARMS OF GOD AND OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS AND JESUS ALONE FOREVER

==========

The Entire Surrender


Peace has unveiled her smiling face,

And wooes thy soul to her embrace,

Enjoyed with ease, if thou refrain

From earthly love, else sought in vain;

She dwells with all who truth prefer,

But seeks not them who seek not her.


Yield to the Lord, with simple heart,

All that thou hast, and all thou art;

Renounce all strength but strength divine;

And peace shall be for ever thine:

Behold the path which I have trod,

My path, till I go home to God.

==========

Jude1
:24-25,
"24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[RJ]

R.J. With all love and respect,you are free to believe as you wish. I myself have two problems with yours. 1 Philp 2:12 So then my beloeved,just as you have always obeyed,not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,WORK OUT SALVATION WITH fear and trembling. IF we are always saved,we have no reason to ever fear salvation.2. Judas was a saved,a believer meant saved,same meaning. He lost his. As to hebrews 6:4-6 you may be correct,perhaps you are more learned,I am far from having total knowledge in God's Word! I only know, what the lord has taught me. 1 John 2:27 but show me one scritpure where man cannot lose, what he has? 1 peter 4:18-19 says. For is is time for judgement to begin with the household of God;and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18!! AND IF IT IS with GREAT DIFFICULTYTHAT THE RIGHTOUS IS SAVED,WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GOLDLESS MAN AND THE SINNER. This tells me Brother,what one does have,they can surly leave again. I will not argue,I hope you are right!! it sure would make my life a whole lot easyier!! But I just cannot see it that way!! blessing to you!

Since we have already established our love and respect for each other, I can say this in confidence:

Your is a legalistic view, in that you must do something in order to maintain your salvation, which is living in error and subjecting yourself to the problems of living in untruth.

What follows is lengthy, so if nothing else, please listen to this:
Ephesians 2:8
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29222">"8</sup>For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29223">9</sup>not by works"

So, if you can loose your salvation, what do you have to do in order to maintain it. I know you can probably think of many things you must do to keep your salvation.

Now, answer this: By who's standards are you going to maintain your salvation, yours, your Pastor's, your church? So what happens if you do not meet up to just one of those standards, are you lost again. And if you are lost again, what do you do? Do you go back to Jesus and ask him to die all over again? That's not going to happen!

By what standards does God require you to do to maintain your salvation? He has none! He just said in Ephesians above that there are no standards, your salvation is a gift and it is free. If you have to continue to do something, it is not a gift, it is not free and it is not Grace.

Here's the rest:

"for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." -Hebrews13:5

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," -Ephesians1:13

Many people will say if they do not live a good Christian life, God will take away their Eternal Security (Salvation). Whereas, the person that has "fallen" away from the Lord will go to hell for not keeping and maintaining a good Christian life. On the contrary, John 3:16 reads that once a believer is saved, they are always saved. The plain truth is, ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED! Some people will comment that they were once a Christian, but quit being one. Then they weren't Christians to begin with!

"...I say then, Hath God cast away his people?..." -Romans 11:1
The moment you call upon Jesus Christ to take you to heaven when you die, you are SAVED. Did you have to do anything to obtain such a wonderful blessing from The Lord? (Besides call upon Him.) No! So, is their any difference to say that you can lose your Eternal Security if you do something wrong? No! You can commit some horrible sins as a Christian, and still hold on to your Salvation! That doesn't mean, though, a Christian can get away with sinning.

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" -John 11:26

Would Satan do such a thing as this nonsense? Satan knows he's going to burn in Hell for ever. So what does he concur? He tries his hardest to deceive BILLIONS of people in going to Hell with him! He'll do ANYTHING to make a lost soul stay lost from Jesus Christ! When you were once lost and going to hell, Satan was your father! But when you received God's wonderful gift for Salvation, you became a child of God! Did Satan give up? No! He still tried to lure your new soul into temptation away from your Heavenly Father! Satan doesn't GIVE UP! So why would God GIVE UP on His OWN CHILDREN?! He won't! God made a promise to NEVER leave his children whether they be good or bad NO MATTER WHAT!

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." -John10:28

So many people refuse to accept the fact, in order to get saved, all they have to do is put their faith in Jesus Christ. Why? People generally have a hard time to believe in something they can't use their five senses on. So these pseudo cults come up with man made traditions telling people if they follow this religion they'll be guaranteed Eternal Security! Such as, getting baptized, living a sinless life, going to Purgatory, speaking in tongues to prove your saved, being slain in the spirit, and all whole bunch of other gimmicks! This is works! Not Faith! This way is Hell's way! Faith lead to the path of God's way! You DON'T have to do works to KEEP your salvation! It's by FAITH your saved into God's kingdom!

"Any denial of eternal security is, in its essence, a belief that we must maintain our own salvation by our own good works. This is completely antithetical to salvation by grace. We are saved because of Christ's merits, not our own (Romans 4:3-8). To claim that we must obey God's Word or live a godly life to maintain our salvation is equal to saying that Jesus' death was not sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. Jesus' death was absolutely sufficient to pay for all of our sins - past, present, and future, pre-salvation and post-salvation (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21)."
​

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" -Titus 3:5

When your born into the world, that was your physical birth. When you obtained Salvation through Jesus Christ, (Got saved) that was your SPIRITUAL birth. I ask you this simple question, "How can you unborn yourself?" You can't! It's IMPOSSIBLE to do such a thing! To think God will unborn your spirit and send you to hell after you've accepted Christ as your own personal Savior, is complete LIES and HERESY! So why do so many Christian's think they can lose their Salvation? They are doctrinally mislead to believing Satan's LIES! Once you've accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior to take you to Heaven when you die, you are 110 percent, with out a doubt--SAVED! It was your spiritual birth and no man can take that birth (Salvation) away from you!

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" -John 11:26

If anyone tells you that you can lose your salvation, they are teaching HERESY! The Bible NEVER mentions that if a person gets saved, they can lose their salvation! No one wants to admit the plain truth that once your saved, your always saved! If your a Christian that believes you must work for the assurance of your Salvation, YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED! May God speak in your heart with this message on Salvation, Amen.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." -Romans 11:25

"I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." -John 10:9

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29222"></sup>

 

[palms25]

God is love

God is love. Love is absolute, love has no conditions. There can be no going back on this. God will never foresake you. you are children of God. worry not of your salvation for this is guareenteed.

Instead rejoice in life be the grandest vision of who you are and rest assured that God will always love you.

 

[Brighthouse]

Oh R.J.!!! GOD FORBID!! I know salvation is never by works!! only by GRACE!! I sure hope you NEVER EVER thought I meant we can do ANTHIING to obtain Salvation!!! LOL No here is what i mean. IF one is saved,I believe, we cannot live anyway we want to anymore is all, You know, show me Faith without works,and i will show you faith by my works,works to me is not how any may recieve salvation,it is the evidence that we believe we do have it! example to me is the sheep and the goats, matt 25:31-47 which i am sure you know well!! here is my point to this,both the sheep and the goats believed they were both saved,hence matt 7:21 point being, the only difference between the two,is what they did,or did not do! If we believe we are saved,then we will always live as if we are by God's grace of course,but in every case we will have fruit!! No fruit? what does salvation mean then to one who lives his life like the rest of the World. I have the most THANKFUL heart to Jesus in the World!! I know, that no matter what I do,only his grace and mercy will ever save me!! My only point is,that is one does believe, one must live according to that belief.James 1:22 be ye what?? correct!! doers!! and not hearers only!! my only point.To say I believe, and then live like the devil, gets you a goats reward to me,some may disagree,but i am sure my point to you is well proven!! amen blessing to you R.J.

 

[RJ]

Oh R.J.!!! GOD FORBID!! I know salvation is never by works!! only by GRACE!! I sure hope you NEVER EVER thought I meant we can do ANTHIING to obtain Salvation!!! LOL No here is what i mean. IF one is saved,I believe, we cannot live anyway we want to anymore is all, You know, show me Faith without works,and i will show you faith by my works,works to me is not how any may recieve salvation,it is the evidence that we believe we do have it! example to me is the sheep and the goats, matt 25:31-47 which i am sure you know well!! here is my point to this,both the sheep and the goats believed they were both saved,hence matt 7:21 point being, the only difference between the two,is what they did,or did not do! If we believe we are saved,then we will always live as if we are by God's grace of course,but in every case we will have fruit!! No fruit? what does salvation mean then to one who lives his life like the rest of the World. I have the most THANKFUL heart to Jesus in the World!! I know, that no matter what I do,only his grace and mercy will ever save me!! My only point is,that is one does believe, one must live according to that belief.James 1:22 be ye what?? correct!! doers!! and not hearers only!! my only point.To say I believe, and then live like the devil, gets you a goats reward to me,some may disagree,but i am sure my point to you is well proven!! amen blessing to you R.J.

Then alas, we do both indeed believe and agree with St. Paul, that it is impossible to be once saved and have tasted the fruits of the Holy Spirit to then fall away and live like the devil and receive a goats reward!
Amen and Hallelujah!!

 

[Brighthouse]

I think I can make this clear now.we both agree that salvation which is only given by God cannot be taken away, or given to anyone but God himself!! agree!! BUT!! If one lives expecting salvation,and his or her works are evil,then matt 7:21 which says not everyone who calls me Lord Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven!! RATHER!!! meaning what I said earlier faith without works is dead,he who DOES the will of my Father which is in Heaven, that man soul can be lost!! because he said he believed, but his fruit was rotton,his reward is hell, not heaven! So what the man or woamn has done, is what Judas did,and to them,fire. hell. not heaven! free will, if we believe,then we have good fruit,if we say we believe,but we live like the World our salvation to me can be lost. because we sell it,as Judas did. I hope you do understand. amen!! LOl blessing!

 

[Boanerges]

Judas was a saved,a believer meant saved,same meaning. He lost his.

On what do you base that assumption? I would liken him to a tare planted in a wheat field. Looking like a believer does not make one a believer. A better picture of who he really was is the fact that he stole from Jesus and the other disciples.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
If they had been of us they would have continued with us.
Their leaving only proved that they were never the sheep of His hand but instead goats.