Christianity & Feminism

[Emiliana]

I was just looking at similar website to this one and one of the discussions was about feminism and Christianity, as a young Christian female this interested me however to my complete horror I saw that one man had commented:
'I believe Christians should oppose feminism as much as possible. It is not good for marriage and it in no way helps bring a husband and wife close together. Quite the opposite.'

To me, this statement is absolutely ridiculous! Obviously when talking of feminism it must be acknowledged that there are many different types of feminist to which extents and opinions differ however as a general rule (well at least in my opinion) feminism is a movement with the aim to establish the social and political rights of women so that they are viewed as equal to men - of course there are many arguments as to whether this is truly the goal of feminists but for arguments sake lets agree that it is. I believe that as parts of the Bible and certain denominations of Christianity seem to undervalue and demean women (just being honest), feminism should be something that Christians should not oppose but instead consider. Within Christianity, men and women should been seen as equal and I think the view expressed in the above comment is completely wrong. If both the husband and wife in a marriage agree with the idea of equality and respect one another then I fail to understand why feminism would drive them apart, as implied.

I think what I'm really trying to get at is, what do you think in relation to everything I've mentioned?

 

[Boanerges]

Feminism is just another branch of the flesh on the tree Adam planted in the garden . Christianity teaches that everyone value other higher than themselves; that everyone take the lowest place- that is the opposite of feminism.

 

[amadeus2]

In this world there is certainly a difference between male and female according to the flesh, but...

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal 3:27-29

 

[Boanerges]

In this world there is certainly a difference between male and female according to the flesh, but...

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal 3:27-29

One of my favorite verses- I always use it when someone is stepping on the fairer sex- it does however apply to one in Christ, not one in feminism or any other secular mindset.

 

[Emiliana]

Boanerges, that is only if you assume feminists can only be women. Regardless of that however, if men and female are both 'one in Christ Jesus' then I fail to see the problem with a movement which aims to gain that equality, fair enough the aim may not be a Christian one but still a worthwhile one.

 

[james1523]

... if men and female are both 'one in Christ Jesus' then I fail to see the problem with a movement which aims to gain that equality, fair enough the aim may not be a Christian one but still a worthwhile one.

Men and female are only one if they are "in Christ Jesus". Feminism movement is a humanist movement which attempts to arrive at oneness and unity between the sexes apart from Christ.
God's main interest is for people to be in Christ Jesus, than for men and women to be equal.
That is, men and women in Christ Jesus is more important than men and women being equal not in Christ Jesus.
Additionally, sexual equality in Christ Jesus does not mean gender equality in the home or married life. In the flesh, women still get pain in childbirth and husband still rules over the wife (see Genesis). That is, sexes are equal in the spirit, but in the flesh are unequal. Fleshly equality between the sexes is against God's creation order. I believe the man's comment that " It is not good for marriage and it in no way helps bring a husband and wife close together."can be understood in this context. Women typically don't like their husband to be feminine and wimpy and men typically don't like their wife to be masculine and tough. The reason is simply biological - men have more testosterone and women have more estrogen, so there's little can be done about it. If God wanted men and women to be equal in the flesh, He would give them the same balance of hormones.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

@Estrella

What Boanerges and james1523 have said is correct.

Feninism, (whatever brand of it) is a worldly movement and a has no place in the Christians womans life.

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
Isaiah 14:14

Feminists covet equality with men like lucifer wanted equality with the Lord.

Estrella look to the scriptures on these matters....they are very clear.

 

[B-A-C]

God didn't create men to be overbearing "masters" to their wives. But where there is no hierarchy, there is dissension.

1 Pet 3:1; In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
1 Pet 3:5; For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands;
1 Pet 3:6; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

Eph 5:22; Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23; For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
Eph 5:24; But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

The Ephesians weren't Jews. They were Gentiles like most of us.
Neither were the Corinthians.

1 Cor 11:3; But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
1 Cor 11:8; For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
1 Cor 11:9; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.

1 Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

or the Colossians...

Col 3:18; Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

Tit 2:3; Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good,
Tit 2:4; so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children,
Tit 2:5; to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.

While God loves men and women equally, and they have equal value in his eyes.

1 Tim 2:11; A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1 Tim 2:12; But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Tim 2:14; And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

God never intended them to be equal in family authority.

 

[DutchChristian]

Feminism = Rebellion against a Holy GOD

'I believe Christians should oppose feminism as much as possible. It is not good for marriage and it in no way helps bring a husband and wife close together. Quite the opposite.'

I'd say AMEN

feminism is a slimey dark curse that has no fear nor reverence towards The LORD and His Order, but brings pride and rebellion inside of many womans mind instead and so troubling many marriages and making many women turn into slaves of their own prideful flesh and of satan: into selfish and manly power ussurping consuming leading, many eventually even becoming lesbians. How evil! Feminism is outright rebellion against God His Order.

Feminism sure is a lie of the devil! Ever since feminism started the divorce rates skyrocketed!

Feminism is so evil! Have nothing to do with it as it does not bring any Glory to The Word of GOD!

 

[amadeus2]

Another very good verse for every man to consider here is this one:

"Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD." Prov 18:22

If we believe that we have not found a good thing in our wife, we probably need to carefully consider our own ways and ask the Lord for guidance. Having said that consider the words quoted in the OP:

'I believe Christians should oppose feminism as much as possible. It is not good for marriage and it in no way helps bring a husband and wife close together. Quite the opposite.'

Remember when are reading words on any forum, even a Christian forum, the people who post are in different places in their walk or growth in the Lord... or in some cases they are missing the Lord altogether.

If there is too much of me in me and not enough of Him, I as the husband am likely to be at fault. The wife, however, must also look at herself in the same Light:

John the Baptist said:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

The "he" that needs to increase is the "new man" within each of us. The "I" that needs to decrease is the "old man" who has been suppressed in each of us, but still strives to regain the dominion, which will lead us back to sin.

Are we worried because our spouse seems to be getting the upper hand over us? Don't seek refuge in 'feminism' or in 'machoism', but in Jesus. Let Him always be the "He" that is increasing in you.

 

[Emiliana]

I have to admit, I find it sad that so many of you are of this opinion. If everyone thought the same then women would still be the accessory to men who were to be seen but not heard. And for feminist wanting equality with men being compared to 'Lucifer' wanting equality with God is just ridiculous. Biological differences between men and women does not mean that one is better than the other and I personally find great difficulty in agreeing with the Bible implying wives must always obey their husbands and are lesser than their husbands - I think it's a rather dangerous idea. And as for divorces 'having 'skyrocketed' due to Feminism, perhaps this is because feminism gave women the strength to perhaps leave abusive and/or controlling relationships, can that really be a terrible thing? Although divorce is a terrible thing, it's not quite as bad as a woman living in fear all her life.
To be a feminist doesn't mean being radical, it can be simply believing that men and women are equal - a view I share and if this is wrong then quite frankly, wow. I for one do not believe that being Christian and feminist is rebellion against God's Order just like no other movement opposing discrimination is against God's Order.

 

[amadeus2]

I have to admit, I find it sad that so many of you are of this opinion.

Have you already made up your mind that so many are against you? I have been married to the same woman for 41 years. She is not my worse half, or my lower half, and I am not her boss. Being the 'head' does not mean being the boss. In Christ there is really no 'boss'. We are, or should be, in harmony.

In your own body, the one part giving the signals is head (read 'brain'), but this is not because the other parts are less important. What would a head be without the rest of the body?

The fleshly marriage is for the most part of a poor shadow of the complete Body of Christ. Why? Because of all the weaknesses of the flesh onboth sides. As I said, my marriage has endured for 41 years, but it hasn't endured because we have developed good skills as taught by some human marriage counselor, but because both of us have continued to seek God from the day more than 30 years ago when it was all over... but God. Both of us have had to submit to the only real Head we need to have: Jesus!

This is why we are warned:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers..." II Cor 6:14

If you marry, marry a man who loves God more than he loves you. Learn to love God more than you love any man. Then when and if you do make a contract both of you need to learn and remember this verse:

"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Phil 2:3

Both my wife and I were effectively unbelievers when we met and married. God had mercy on us and when He drew us to Him we both surrendered to Jesus to save not only our marriage but our souls.

Biological differences between men and women does not mean that one is better than the other and I personally find great difficulty in agreeing with the Bible implying wives must always obey their husbands and are lesser than their husbands - I think it's a rather dangerous idea.

If you believe that is what the Bible really teaches, you need to check more carefully. There is another message there and it is a good message for both male and female. Being "one" is not ever to be a lopsided arrangement... at least not according to God. Unfortunately both men and women, even many of those bearing the label, Christian, work by both words and actions to make it lopsided... usually in favor of "me". All people are selfish. That is why I quoted that verse (Phil 2:3) above. Selfishness is God's enemy and it should be your enemy as well.

And as for divorces 'having 'skyrocketed' due to Feminism, perhaps this is because feminism gave women the strength to perhaps leave abusive and/or controlling relationships, can that really be a terrible thing? Although divorce is a terrible thing, it's not quite as bad as a woman living in fear all her life.

The biggest reason for divorce is selfishness and there is too much of it in everyone, especially in people who are supposedly believers. Remember that someday you may give birth to a man child. Don't hold it against him before he can even talk.

To be a feminist doesn't mean being radical, it can be simply believing that men and women are equal - a view I share and if this is wrong then quite frankly, wow. I for one do not believe that being Christian and feminist is rebellion against God's Order just like no other movement opposing discrimination is against God's Order.

If you can be there (in feminism) and always put God first, there is no reason not to do it.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

I have to admit, I find it sad that so many of you are of this opinion. If everyone thought the same then women would still be the accessory to men who were to be seen but not heard. And for feminist wanting equality with men being compared to 'Lucifer' wanting equality with God is just ridiculous. Biological differences between men and women does not mean that one is better than the other and I personally find great difficulty in agreeing with the Bible implying wives must always obey their husbands and are lesser than their husbands - I think it's a rather dangerous idea. And as for divorces 'having 'skyrocketed' due to Feminism, perhaps this is because feminism gave women the strength to perhaps leave abusive and/or controlling relationships, can that really be a terrible thing? Although divorce is a terrible thing, it's not quite as bad as a woman living in fear all her life.
To be a feminist doesn't mean being radical, it can be simply believing that men and women are equal - a view I share and if this is wrong then quite frankly, wow. I for one do not believe that being Christian and feminist is rebellion against God's Order just like no other movement opposing discrimination is against God's Order.

@Estrella

Perhaps if you take out of you post all the 'I think, I for one, a view I share, I personally.....etc
Then look at what is left

More importantly look at what is left of God's Word

And I would suggest there won't be much

The brothers and sisters who have posted here have gently tried to show you what the scriptures say on feminism
And are showing you what the word says.....rather than worldly opinions
The scriptures clearly do not support feminism in any way

I notice from your profile that you are not a born again believer......praying that the Lord will reveal more and more of Himself to you.....and that you will turn to Him for salvation which He offers as a free gift to all.

Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:105

 

[Emiliana]

If you believe that is what the Bible really teaches, you need to check more carefully.

I think the Bible saying things such as 'Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands' and 'Therefore, as the church is subject to unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything' (Ephesians) certainly implies that women must always obey their husbands and are therefore lesser than them.

In Genesis, does it not say that we are all made in the image of God? And in Romans we are told 'God shows no partiality'. If we are all made in the image of God and he shows no partiality to one gender, then surely we all warrant the same respect, equality is an illustration of that respect. The man should not be the head of the family, but both man and woman should be.

Thank all of you on your comments, I do appreciate it. I think my views tend to come from the fact that I am a female student and I'm always being told my teachers, family members etc. that woman are equal to men and because of this I think that women should be equal to men in all aspects although I must admit the Bible does not greatly support this view. Another thing which fuels my fire to establish Christian women as equal to men is the fact that the Christian boys I have spoken to or been with in the past tend to really use that idea of men being the 'head' to belittle women or suggest they are less than males and that just really gets under my skin and makes conversation with them impossible - usually ending in arguments (I'm talking about Christian boys who are truly serious about their faith), and that leads to me preferring 'luke-warm' Christian boys who aren't really that Christian to be honest.

I know I don't tend to use scripture when I talk and instead use opinion but that's just me bringing an element of reality to the issue, Christianity could widely benefit I believe (yes, another personal opinion) from promoting the idea of women being equal to men. This could be the cases in certain churches but I think more need to adopt it.

 

[B-A-C]

I think my views tend to come from the fact that I am a female student and I'm always being told my teachers, family members etc. that woman are equal to men and because of this I think that women should be equal to men in all aspects although I must admit the Bible does not greatly support this view.

It is extremely difficult to be educated in todays "higher learning" institutions and be a Christian. They teach evolution, not creationism.
They teach there is no absolute truth and that each of us has our own truth inside of us. They teach there is no God. They teach that man is capable of deciding his own morality.
Most believe that homosexuality is OK. Most believe that feminism is OK. Many believe that abortion is OK. Yet all of these things are against the Bible.
The Bible warns over and over again, we can be of the world, or we can follow him. There really isn't any middle ground.

 

[Emiliana]

I agree, although I must say I attend an all girls convent school - can't get more catholic than that tbh. I find the school itself is very Christian, it tends to be individual views of the teaches which challenge traditional Christian views. Yes, we learn about evolution in science but we are also taught religion and science are not mutually exclusive, we are most certainly taught there IS indeed a God. I admit, homosexuality is generally accepted in our school and homophobia is not allowed but in a school with students as young as 11 I think this is appropriate and anyway, a school would not be allowed to openly condemn homosexuality. In a female school of course feminism is seen as okay, one of my teachers is a strong feminist (married and with a son) although she prefers to be referred to as a realist. I personally find abortion disgusting but this is often met with hostility and I am often told that 'You can't judge without being in the situation!'
I think Christian schools are under pressure to become a lot more secular and adopt more liberal ideas, this can be both a bad thing and a good thing. Feminism, would be one of the good things although only to a certain extent. Some use feminism as an excuse to justify immoral actions such as abortion, promiscuity, adultery and so on but this does not make feminism in itself bad.

 

[amadeus2]

I think the Bible saying things such as 'Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands' and 'Therefore, as the church is subject to unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything' (Ephesians) certainly implies that women must always obey their husbands and are therefore lesser than them.

Don't be satisfied with the answer any person (male or female) gives you. When you read the verse you quoted also read this one also: "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" Eph 5:25

This is why you are not to be "unequally yoked". No one should just marry anyone who is apparently a sincere believer... or who says that he or she is. We should marry the one who fits into our part with God, whatever that is.

The difficult thing with scripture is that people tend to listen too much to what are commonly accepted views. You are not doing that and that is good, but this doesn't mean you are right any more than it means that I am right. God is the One who is always right, but what is it that He says? What He says to me is not necessarily what He is saying to you or the next person, because the Body of Christ is not one member but many, even our natural body has many members. Each member has different functions and the message received by each part is exactly appropriate, I believe, to what God desires. Have you heard and understood your part of the message from God? If not, do not despair. Keep seeking and keep listening.

"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:" Isaiah 28:10

The whole load of God's Word is available, but it usually comes a little bit at the time and a lot of trials or tests are involved.

In Genesis, does it not say that we are all made in the image of God? And in Romans we are told 'God shows no partiality'. If we are all made in the image of God and he shows no partiality to one gender, then surely we all warrant the same respect, equality is an illustration of that respect. The man should not be the head of the family, but both man and woman should be.

In Genesis it also says that the woman came out of the man, but as we know the man also comes out of the woman. Jesus says:

"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Matt 19:4-6

To be "one" with Christ or with another person, male or female, requires something that people do not have without God's Spirit. It is something that was lost with Adam and Eve and resulted in both of them being put outside of God's garden. Jesus became the Way to re-enter the garden, but no one can really re-enter it alone. It is the Body of Christ that will re-enter the garden in a new Spirit. Our old spirit is invested in something that is dead to God. God sees Life and acknowledges Life, not death. If you get married without this Life in both you and your spouse the road will be to put it mildly very rocky. Why do we suppose that so few these days who do marry end up in divorce? The Christian label does not bind two people together. God does.

Thank all of you on your comments, I do appreciate it. I think my views tend to come from the fact that I am a female student and I'm always being told my teachers, family members etc. that woman are equal to men and because of this I think that women should be equal to men in all aspects although I must admit the Bible does not greatly support this view.

Don't sell the Bible short. Keep seeking what God has for you, rather than what any person (including me) tells you. That the Bible has a carnal message for any who are searching in a carnal way has evidence in its favor in the literally thousands of supposedly Christian groups supposedly based on the Bible. This speaks to the mixed message, which I believe, that most people have. We need to get past the mixture to the unadulterated message God has available... Listen to the preachers and teachers, but sift it with the help of the Holy Spirit and eventually His message to you will come clear:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Another thing which fuels my fire to establish Christian women as equal to men is the fact that the Christian boys I have spoken to or been with in the past tend to really use that idea of men being the 'head' to belittle women or suggest they are less than males and that just really gets under my skin and makes conversation with them impossible - usually ending in arguments (I'm talking about Christian boys who are truly serious about their faith), and that leads to me preferring 'luke-warm' Christian boys who aren't really that Christian to be honest.

Probably all of them are wrong, but probably you are as well. All of you (and all of us) have at best a mixed message. You (the boys you speak of included) can grow, leaving behind some of the error and taking on more of the Truth, but do not expect more than a person presently can or will give. Having said that, I believe that you already know what you are looking for... to be equally yoked, if marriage is in your future. Do not accept anything less. Ask God for direction.

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23 (Note the word "man" used here, I believe, makes reference to a person of either physical gender.)

I know I don't tend to use scripture when I talk and instead use opinion but that's just me bringing an element of reality to the issue, Christianity could widely benefit I believe (yes, another personal opinion) from promoting the idea of women being equal to men. This could be the cases in certain churches but I think more need to adopt it.

Don't expect the world outside of you to change for you. It really isn't likely to happen. What you, and each of us, needs to do is be changed to what God really wants us to be. You need to receive God's message to your heart... every day. Remember the verse I quote above..."For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:" Isaiah 28:10

 

[bikinigirl]

Feminism is a dangerous cult and Christians should stay as far away from it as possible. We are not to hold authority over men in any way but just the opposite. God is the head of man and man is the head of women. We are not equal but unique in God's kingdom and all work together for a purpose. Some girls want to wear the pants in the family but I will always insist on wearing the mini-skirt!

 

[farout]

Feminism is a dangerous cult and Christians should stay as far away from it as possible. We are not to hold authority over men in any way but just the opposite. God is the head of man and man is the head of women. We are not equal but unique in God's kingdom and all work together for a purpose. Some girls want to wear the pants in the family but I will always insist on wearing the mini-skirt!

What you state may well be good advice, but we really need Scripture to back your statement, then you words become "thus says the LORD."

 

[farout]

I agree, although I must say I attend an all girls convent school - can't get more catholic than that tbh. I find the school itself is very Christian, it tends to be individual views of the teaches which challenge traditional Christian views. Yes, we learn about evolution in science but we are also taught religion and science are not mutually exclusive, we are most certainly taught there IS indeed a God. I admit, homosexuality is generally accepted in our school and homophobia is not allowed but in a school with students as young as 11 I think this is appropriate and anyway, a school would not be allowed to openly condemn homosexuality. In a female school of course feminism is seen as okay, one of my teachers is a strong feminist (married and with a son) although she prefers to be referred to as a realist. I personally find abortion disgusting but this is often met with hostility and I am often told that 'You can't judge without being in the situation!'
I think Christian schools are under pressure to become a lot more secular and adopt more liberal ideas, this can be both a bad thing and a good thing. Feminism, would be one of the good things although only to a certain extent. Some use feminism as an excuse to justify immoral actions such as abortion, promiscuity, adultery and so on but this does not make feminism in itself bad.

It sounds like you have been taught some things I find very wrong, and I believe the Bible does not agree with either. Try re-reading Romans 1. After reading this chapter this will show you that we do not show hatred to the person, but the sin they chose for their lifestyle. Keep in mind that that those who continue to be in a homosexual lifestyle have rejected following Jesus Christ. As a matter of history the Catholic church and it's schools do condem homosexuality, and I can't understand how your school does not.

Good that you stand for truth and Gods WORD on abortion. Abortion is the killing of a soul, and women are taken advantage of when a pregnant woman is at the most frail emotionally, filled with fear, and worry these abortionists push women into killing their babies. Bless you for taking a Biblical stand !

My wife went to Seminary, and sadly many women in seminary are into feminism, and my wife is a living example that women with higher Christian Ministry Degrees don't have to be a feminists. Yes there are feminists in Seminaries that are liberal. I personally took a class from woman feminists who used her position to attempt to change the men in the class to feel ashamed of being a man. I was proud to get a "F" for the class.