Christians Guns kill...MUST read

[rizen1]

I know Christians who have guns and call hunting fun .
I know Christians who collect guns..because its fun
I know Christians that think its cute to give a 12 yr old kid a rifle for Christmas because its fun.
Did I mention when my brother lived in texas, some Christians gave him a gun as a gift.

I'm not sure if its the fever or me being a human.

Gunman Opens Fire on Illinois Campus
AP
Posted: 2008-02-14 20:16:01
Filed Under: Nation News
DEKALB, Ill. (Feb. 14) - A man dressed in black opened fire with a shotgun from a stage of a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University on Thursday, killing four people and himself. Another 14 people were injured

Happy Valentines...
Not so happy for those who lost loved ones.

If the devil uses guns to do his deeds..why should we own one or some.
We quickly judge those who drink wine, I understand bible does speak against drunkeness. But does it speak about collecting guns. If it does show me scripture so I can offer a humble apology, for my rant.

Like I said it could be the fever, because I've been sick this past week.
But this news really got me off my bed.

You know this world is in trouble, when you can't send your kids to school.
Where are the prayer warriors, the interceders or the activist groups.

Were these people saved, did they know Jesus.
My prayers go out to the families.
My prayers go out to talkJesus members and their love ones, thats God's protection covers us.


The Lord is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters;
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for His name's sake.

Even though I walk through the valley
of the shadow of death,
I fear no evil;
for You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life;
and I shall dwell in the house of the
Lord forever.

Psalm 23

 

[Richie]

I know Christians who have guns and call hunting fun .
I know Christians who collect guns..because its fun
I know Christians that think its cute to give a 12 yr old kid a rifle for Christmas because its fun.
Did I mention when my brother lived in texas, some Christians gave him a gun as a gift.

I'm not sure if its the fever or me being a human.



Happy Valentines...
Not so happy for those who lost loved ones.

If the devil uses guns to do his deeds..why should we own one or some.
We quickly judge those who drink wine, I understand bible does speak against drunkeness. But does it speak about collecting guns. If it does show me scripture so I can offer a humble apology, for my rant.

Like I said it could be the fever, because I've been sick this past week.
But this news really got me off my bed.

You know this world is in trouble, when you can't send your kids to school.
Where are the prayer warriors, the interceders or the activist groups.

Were these people saved, did they know Jesus.
My prayers go out to the families.
My prayers go out to talkJesus members and their love ones, thats God's protection covers us.


The Lord is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters;
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for His name's sake.

Even though I walk through the valley
of the shadow of death,
I fear no evil;
for You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life;
and I shall dwell in the house of the
Lord forever.

Psalm 23

It is not surprising to me to see a gun in a child's hands. It is because of the following reasons why such violent things are happening:

1). Moral values are decaying drastically in the world today.
2). Movies have influenced the world a lot.
3). The love for violence, pride and hatred have crept into the minds of people especially young people.
etc.

Thank God that we're saved by God's grace. We are different because He changed us, so that we can prove to the whole world that we're God's children.

I pray that God will protect every one of us (His servants) and look after us as long as we live here on earth.

God bless you.

 

[rizen1]

Thanks for sharing those reasons.

God bless you.

 

[Trevor]

I know Christians who have guns and call hunting fun .
I know Christians who collect guns..because its fun
I know Christians that think its cute to give a 12 yr old kid a rifle for Christmas because its fun.
Did I mention when my brother lived in texas, some Christians gave him a gun as a gift.

I'm not sure if its the fever or me being a human.



Happy Valentines...
Not so happy for those who lost loved ones.

If the devil uses guns to do his deeds..why should we own one or some.
We quickly judge those who drink wine, I understand bible does speak against drunkeness. But does it speak about collecting guns. If it does show me scripture so I can offer a humble apology, for my rant.

Like I said it could be the fever, because I've been sick this past week.
But this news really got me off my bed.

You know this world is in trouble, when you can't send your kids to school.
Where are the prayer warriors, the interceders or the activist groups.

Were these people saved, did they know Jesus.
My prayers go out to the families.
My prayers go out to talkJesus members and their love ones, thats God's protection covers us.


The Lord is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters;
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for His name's sake.

Even though I walk through the valley
of the shadow of death,
I fear no evil;
for You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life;
and I shall dwell in the house of the
Lord forever.

Psalm 23

People were asking John the Baptist what they should do to escape the wrath to come. Some soldiers asked him. His answer was "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely -- be content with your pay. He never told then to stop being soldiers and stop killing people. Today those soldiers would be carrying guns to kill people with, and many of them are Christian. Many Christians own guns to kill animals for food. Genesis 9:2-3 The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on the birds of the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. Maybe we should allow others to follow there own paths and face God with their decisions, while we seek our own salvation with fear and trembling?

 

[hopefulson]

I have a sad interpretation of these remarks and questions. First, let me ask openly do you feel as though you, yourself consider others as an absolute equal to you? meaning if you were faced with extreme risk of your own life to save another could you commit to such a course?

Then let me offer this thought. There are people who would never and I mean never harm another person under any circumstances, do you believe such a person exists? I can personally testify there are many.

Then what happens if a circumstance presents itself where many people are in mortal danger and you were in possession of an instrument of force to prevent a fatal outcome but you would have to kill someone to end the threat, what position is morally higher to act or not to act?

Guns are not simple things. You can harbor an attitude about them but like all attitudes, they reflect your own soul, the moral place you stand on.

I live in CT. Sandy Hook is a very real event here but this I know, I can take the exact same gun the very gun that killed the staff and children at that school and load it, charge it, and remove the safety, place it on a table beyond the reach of any child and it will remain there for all eternity and never harm a single soul until a person of criminal intent picks it up. If this statement is true then is it the gun that is evil or Mr. Lanza who wielded it? Let us go a step further if just one person just one in the life of Mr. Lanza convinced him that he was a person of priceless worth worthy of kindness and attention would he have committed the act that cost so many including himself their lives? If you can entertain that then this concept could be explored, where is the real battle in the gun shops, or in the legislature, or is it in the hearts and the minds and the spirits of the most downtrodden and hurt among us, and is this not ministry?

 

[Andyindauk]

I know Christians who have guns and call hunting fun .
I know Christians who collect guns..because its fun
I know Christians that think its cute to give a 12 yr old kid a rifle for Christmas because its fun.
Did I mention when my brother lived in texas, some Christians gave him a gun as a gift.

I'm not sure if its the fever or me being a human.



Happy Valentines...
Not so happy for those who lost loved ones.

If the devil uses guns to do his deeds..why should we own one or some.
We quickly judge those who drink wine, I understand bible does speak against drunkeness. But does it speak about collecting guns. If it does show me scripture so I can offer a humble apology, for my rant.

Like I said it could be the fever, because I've been sick this past week.
But this news really got me off my bed.

You know this world is in trouble, when you can't send your kids to school.
Where are the prayer warriors, the interceders or the activist groups.

Were these people saved, did they know Jesus.
My prayers go out to the families.
My prayers go out to talkJesus members and their love ones, thats God's protection covers us.


The Lord is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters;
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for His name's sake.

Even though I walk through the valley
of the shadow of death,
I fear no evil;
for You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life;
and I shall dwell in the house of the
Lord forever.

Psalm 23

I'm with the OP on this one.

To me men are inherently evil, it's in our DNA. Wasn't many years after the fall that Cain murdered Abel, using a stone, Since then we've gone to extraordinary lengths to develop and invent ever more sophisticated means of killing each other, guns, grenades, bombs and now weapons of mass destruction. Jesus was right when He said: 'Out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery....,' Matthew 15:19

How can Christians in their hearts perpetuate such an evil trade as the manufacture and distribution of guns?

In the UK, gun ownership is pretty much banned other than fairly basic hunting rifles and even those are strictly licensed and it is quite a process involved in obtaining such a licence. Guns for security and self protection are a definite no no. There's a mandatory minimum sentence of 5 years for even possessing a pistol. These rules are pretty well accepted by the vast majority of right thinking UK citizens and as far as I know there are no serious proposals to amend them in any way.

Compare and contrast the homicide and suicide rates involving guns UK vs USA. This link may be useful America's gun culture in charts

I don't see how we as Christians can say that all these unnecessary deaths are a price worth paying for our freedom to own such devastating equipment.

Food for thought.

 

[Brad Huber]

I'm with the OP on this one.

To me men are inherently evil, it's in our DNA. Wasn't many years after the fall that Cain murdered Abel, using a stone, Since then we've gone to extraordinary lengths to develop and invent ever more sophisticated means of killing each other, guns, grenades, bombs and now weapons of mass destruction. Jesus was right when He said: 'Out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery....,' Matthew 15:19

How can Christians in their hearts perpetuate such an evil trade as the manufacture and distribution of guns?

In the UK, gun ownership is pretty much banned other than fairly basic hunting rifles and even those are strictly licensed and it is quite a process involved in obtaining such a licence. Guns for security and self protection are a definite no no. There's a mandatory minimum sentence of 5 years for even possessing a pistol. These rules are pretty well accepted by the vast majority of right thinking UK citizens and as far as I know there are no serious proposals to amend them in any way.

Compare and contrast the homicide and suicide rates involving guns UK vs USA. This link may be useful America's gun culture in charts

I don't see how we as Christians can say that all these unnecessary deaths are a price worth paying for our freedom to own such devastating equipment.

Food for thought.

It is not the gun that kills, it is the heart. It is obvious, especially with cain. Rock, spear, bow, gun, grenades, all are things that can do nothing on their own, indeed they can all work for good, it is the heart, the intent of the person holding it. Short of killing everyone on the planet but yourself, there will always be dangers resulting in bodily death, but do not fear that which can harm the body, instead fear that which can harm the soul. Only victory through Jesus can that battle be won. Why do you think Jesus said, if you think lustfully, you have already committed adultry? Because it is the heart.

 

[hopefulson]

The gun ups the value ante. Freedom, life, and death are a part of all of our lives. If we let the perfect eternal value of these principals diminish in any way a descent downward will begin. I would liken it to the issue of justice in capital offences of murder and worse. We don't like dealing with extreme justice but we dare not do without it because it reflects reality and addresses true value in a real way where nothing less will do. The gun is a real and true responsibility of great depth. It is meant in The United States for the individual and the nation to live up to, not to remove and dismiss. When something is higher and demands a devoted response, rise up to it. If an issue requires us to diminish personal responsibility and or avoid the same we should turn away from it or it will diminish our society as a whole. Exactly as legalized abortion has done to the value of life in The United States.

 

[Trevor]

I have a sad interpretation of these remarks and questions. First, let me ask openly do you feel as though you, yourself consider others as an absolute equal to you? meaning if you were faced with extreme risk of your own life to save another could you commit to such a course?

Then let me offer this thought. There are people who would never and I mean never harm another person under any circumstances, do you believe such a person exists? I can personally testify there are many.

Then what happens if a circumstance presents itself where many people are in mortal danger and you were in possession of an instrument of force to prevent a fatal outcome but you would have to kill someone to end the threat, what position is morally higher to act or not to act?

Guns are not simple things. You can harbor an attitude about them but like all attitudes, they reflect your own soul, the moral place you stand on.

I live in CT. Sandy Hook is a very real event here but this I know, I can take the exact same gun the very gun that killed the staff and children at that school and load it, charge it, and remove the safety, place it on a table beyond the reach of any child and it will remain there for all eternity and never harm a single soul until a person of criminal intent picks it up. If this statement is true then is it the gun that is evil or Mr. Lanza who wielded it? Let us go a step further if just one person just one in the life of Mr. Lanza convinced him that he was a person of priceless worth worthy of kindness and attention would he have committed the act that cost so many including himself their lives? If you can entertain that then this concept could be explored, where is the real battle in the gun shops, or in the legislature, or is it in the hearts and the minds and the spirits of the most downtrodden and hurt among us, and is this not ministry?

Hi hopefulson, It's not wise to deal in hypotheticals, no one can say what they would do in any situation. We might fantasise, but we could not ever know until put to the test. As to ministry, we should always be ready with a witness of Jesus in any situation.

 

[hopefulson]

Hi hopefulson, It's not wise to deal in hypotheticals, no one can say what they would do in any situation. We might fantasise, but we could not ever know until put to the test. As to ministry, we should always be ready with a witness of Jesus in any situation.

Hi Trevor
Here is my thought. Put yourself to the test, know where you stand, and how you feel. If you waver anywhere know the points you are wavering on. Self-examination is a very good thing, not something to avoid, and introspection a useful review. Imagine living your life and doing without them.

 

[Trevor]

Hi Trevor
Here is my thought. Put yourself to the test, know where you stand, and how you feel. If you waver anywhere know the points you are wavering on. Self-examination is a very good thing, not something to avoid, and introspection a useful review. Imagine living your life and doing without them.

I no-longer test myself hopefulson, I walk with the Spirit and whatever life puts before me he is there to see me through, and he's never let me down, and whenever I need to know something, the answer rises up in my heart from the scripture I have fed on over the years. "Come to me all you who are burdened, and I will give you rest." I came to Jesus with my burdens and now I am in rest and enjoying it. bless you.

 

[hopefulson]

I no-longer test myself hopefulson, I walk with the Spirit and whatever life puts before me he is there to see me through, and he's never let me down, and whenever I need to know something, the answer rises up in my heart from the scripture I have fed on over the years. "Come to me all you who are burdened, and I will give you rest." I came to Jesus with my burdens and now I am in rest and enjoying it. bless you.

Bless you as well Trevor what you have said is as good as it gets. Glory in the power of your position, there is no place sweeter. May God be with you and guide your every step and be found in your every word.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I know Christians who have guns and call hunting fun .
I know Christians who collect guns..because its fun
I know Christians that think its cute to give a 12 yr old kid a rifle for Christmas because its fun.
Did I mention when my brother lived in texas, some Christians gave him a gun as a gift.

I'm not sure if its the fever or me being a human.



Happy Valentines...
Not so happy for those who lost loved ones.

If the devil uses guns to do his deeds..why should we own one or some.
We quickly judge those who drink wine, I understand bible does speak against drunkeness. But does it speak about collecting guns. If it does show me scripture so I can offer a humble apology, for my rant.

Like I said it could be the fever, because I've been sick this past week.
But this news really got me off my bed.

You know this world is in trouble, when you can't send your kids to school.
Where are the prayer warriors, the interceders or the activist groups.

Were these people saved, did they know Jesus.
My prayers go out to the families.
My prayers go out to talkJesus members and their love ones, thats God's protection covers us.


The Lord is my shepherd,
I shall not want;
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters;
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for His name's sake.

Even though I walk through the valley
T
I fear no evil;
for You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life;
and I shall dwell in the house of the
Lord forever.

Psalm 23

A gun, like the knife you use to cut your steak is nothing but a tool I've carried a knife in my pocket for at least the last sixty years. Why don't Christians whine about knives? Or electricity, or cars, or or or. Can you think of anything that cannot be used to kill? This is a foolish discussion. Tools can be used as weapons, playing cards can be used to kill people. Name one thing that cannot be used to kill. Satan uses tools but that does not make those tools evil.

 

[Brad Huber]

Satan uses tools but that does not make those tools evil.

Yeah, satan uses people as tools alot, but that doesnt mean God doesnt love them. And although sinful, not all are evil.

 

[Hekuran]

Thing is, we don't have a way to eradicate evil or to turn all evil people to good - at least, not until Jesus returns. So in the until then, doesn't it make practical sense to reduce access to lethal weapons?

The 'guns are just a tool' argument is very weak. All tools are made for a purpose. A watch is for telling the time, a hammer is for driving nails. A gun is for violence or threatening violence.

 

[hopefulson]

Thing is, we don't have a way to eradicate evil or to turn all evil people to good - at least, not until Jesus returns. So in the until then, doesn't it make practical sense to reduce access to lethal weapons?

The 'guns are just a tool' argument is very weak. All tools are made for a purpose. A watch is for telling the time, a hammer is for driving nails. A gun is for violence or threatening violence.

Here is what I have to say not to look down or plant division but to try to convey a particularly American feeling and sense of being. I would rather be an American than an Englishman. There is something about waking up in the morning with a sense and smell of Freedom in my nostrils. There is no other nation on earth that has that fragrance and air about it. Like any beauty, it first must be experienced before you can put it on a scale. As for guns, guns are the ultimate Yes / No. In America, the citizens retain that responsibility and that right. In America that is what an individual is in relation to our government and to one another. We are completely sacred beings (do not touch) the establishment of that depth of respect was the purpose for the creation at its founding of the American nation. Much Blood has been shed resulting in the light of that promise being defended over the earth. Regardless of motive, the light has shown through because of what we are. The weight and the light that is American freedom continues to illuminate aspirations across the globe and truly, in our history, God is its author for He rules in the affairs of every nation.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Thing is, we don't have a way to eradicate evil or to turn all evil people to good - at least, not until Jesus returns. So in the until then, doesn't it make practical sense to reduce access to lethal weapons?

The 'guns are just a tool' argument is very weak. All tools are made for a purpose. A watch is for telling the time, a hammer is for driving nails. A gun is for violence or threatening violence.

I agree to a point Brother. I say to a point because there are issues that crop up with what one's logic that says if we reduce access to lethal weapons there will be less gun violence. Actually it has to be all or nothing, because attempting to control weapons access in a limited way affects the people who follow the law, and has no affect on those who don't. People will find a gun if they want to even if its illegal. Only the law abiding people won't. I mentioned before Chicago, which has the strictest gun control laws in the US. Again, they usually have the most gun deaths in the US year after year. Why? Because the people who follow the law don't have weapons, and can not protect themselves, or deter violence from happening. Law Enforcement has been no help there either. So, the reduction of access has done nothing in resolving the issues of gun violence in this city. Most places that allow gun carry, have less violence because any perpetrator knows that the possibility is great that the person they intend to harm is armed. That is what is called deterrent. That is why it must be all or nothing.

Oh, and you are wrong as it pertains to what a gun is for. You said that "A gun is for violence or threatening violence." NO, a gun is to kill, or to work as a deterrent. The purpose behind its use is dependent on the reasoning the person uses for pulling the trigger, and there are many.

Brother, people are going to kill people if they want to. It doesn't matter if its a gun, knife, poison, even a pencil. Limiting access, again, will only affect those who follow the law from affectively being able to protect themselves and those they love when properly trained. You'll find that the stories that promulgated by the media are the ones about how a gun was used to kill this or that person. What you don't hear about is the stories about how guns prevented this or that from happening.

That is why as you have said, "we don't have a way to eradicate evil or to turn all evil people to good - at least, not until Jesus returns". I agree!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Thing is, we don't have a way to eradicate evil or to turn all evil people to good - at least, not until Jesus returns. So in the until then, doesn't it make practical sense to reduce access to lethal weapons?

The 'guns are just a tool' argument is very weak. All tools are made for a purpose. A watch is for telling the time, a hammer is for driving nails. A gun is for violence or threatening violence.

If I wanted to kill somebody and I could not get my grabbers on a gun, do you think I'll not kill anyway? I've carried a knife, in my pocket for years, that is capable of killing. As I already said, anything, anything can be used for violence, or killing. Let's just ban it all? Or maybe bring back capital punisment.

 

[backNforth]

It is not the gun that kills, it is the heart. It is obvious...

Indeed. But that fact won't stop the mind-controlled majority from spouting the worldly conditioned line. Meanwhile, the satanically bloodlined multi-generational banking families aka the global elite (who the Bible states are the rich men of the earth, the ones who love money more than they love us) want us powerless and manipulatable - always have, always will. And the spirit behind their machinations wants all of us dead, as it comes to steal, kill and destroy. As others have so astutely pointed out, it's the heart of man, and not the items in his pocket or gun closet, that is the problem.

The only ultimate result of these types of discussions is that those who do not live in fear (e.g. those who possess firearms) are necessarily distinguished from those who fear firearms. I choose truth over fear every time.

The take-away is: Hitler gave out extra food rations to those who snitched out their neighbors. History will repeat itself, so stay frosty.

 

[Brad Huber]

Thing is, we don't have a way to eradicate evil or to turn all evil people to good - at least, not until Jesus returns. So in the until then, doesn't it make practical sense to reduce access to lethal weapons?

The 'guns are just a tool' argument is very weak. All tools are made for a purpose. A watch is for telling the time, a hammer is for driving nails. A gun is for violence or threatening violence.

Wrong, a gun is also for hunting to provide needed food to some people. And it can be used to defend yourself from violence that is threatened on you or your family. In a break-in with violence intended, by the time a cop shows up, its often too late for the person inside... unless they have a means of defense. Just the sound of a pump shotgun being racked will often scare away violent people before they try to commit the violence. Why do you wish people to be defenseless?