Christians Guns kill...MUST read

[Admon Mikha'el]

Wrong, a gun is also for hunting to provide needed food to some people. And it can be used to defend yourself from violence that is threatened on you or your family. In a break-in with violence intended, by the time a cop shows up, its often too late for the person inside... unless they have a means of defense. Just the sound of a pump shotgun being racked will often scare away violent people before they try to commit the violence. Why do you wish people to be defenseless?

Weapons too, are a means of ensuring peace...Look at the arms race between the US and Russia...Neither side wanted war because of mutual destruction. Guns do the same.

 

[Dave L]

Jesus told us to love our enemies as he did when he sacrificed his life for them. Personally, I would rather suffer violence and die upholding his word and wear a martyr's crown than not by killing someone, just to rot away in old folks home one day.

 

[hopefulson]

Jesus told us to love our enemies as he did when he sacrificed his life for them. Personally, I would rather suffer violence and die upholding his word and wear a martyr's crown than not by killing someone, just to rot away in old folks home one day.

These are Wise, Wise words Dave. No Christain can call themselves one unless they hear them loud and clear and make them the substance of their heart. However when I say this; that your freedom, your equality, your safety, is my responsibility as is the sacred substance of your integrity in essense respect for your very essense as a person should I only go to the limit of personal sacrifice as you are discribing or should I sacrifice and make a stand even a life and death one. Are the things I am mentioning not worth life? So here is the domain of the gun. It is the ultimate NO statement in the face of the abuse of the conditions needed to live a full and secure life of respect and freedom. These are measures and values that extend to all of us. It is plain that that is the intention in The Constitution. To bear arms comes right after freedom of religion and speech as a means of assuring their survival in the face of all adversaries foreign and domestic. It is designed as a last defense to the abuse of government. To that point let make this statement I can add that thousands have died because of guns but bad government has killed hundreds of millions most simply over matters of disagreement of governments with their populace. I would never say that these abuses could not happen here in the United States they surely can and are. I feel compelled to stand up. I would feel ashamed to stand down. I am sorry to put it forward like this but I would be a lot more sorry if I didn't.

 

[Dave L]

These are Wise, Wise words Dave. No Christain can call themselves one unless they hear them loud and clear and make them the substance of their heart. However when I say this; that your freedom, your equality, your safety, is my responsibility as is the sacred substance of your integrity in essense respect for your very essense as a person should I only go to the limit of personal sacrifice as you are discribing or should I sacrifice and make a stand even a life and death one. Are the things I am mentioning not worth life? So here is the domain of the gun. It is the ultimate NO statement in the face of the abuse of the conditions needed to live a full and secure life of respect and freedom. These are measures and values that extend to all of us. It is plain that that is the intention in The Constitution. To bear arms comes right after freedom of religion and speech as a means of assuring their survival in the face of all adversaries foreign and domestic. It is designed as a last defense to the abuse of government. To that point let make this statement I can add that thousands have died because of guns but bad government has killed hundreds of millions most simply over matters of disagreement of governments with their populace. I would never say that these abuses could not happen here in the United States they surely can and are. I feel compelled to stand up. I would feel ashamed to stand down. I am sorry to put it forward like this but I would be a lot more sorry if I didn't.

I think it comes down to being obedient in loving enemies. But this rests on knowing the benefits of a martyr's death far outweigh killing enemies. It's not for the novice but for those who take the cross.

 

[hopefulson]

I think it comes down to being obedient in loving enemies. But this rests on knowing the benefits of a martyr's death far outweigh killing enemies. It's not for the novice but for those who take the cross.

We must all BOW TO HIS WILL in our lives. People are meant for different things in His will and we are not one size fits all but loving one's enemies is a certain thing. So to go forward with a gun is to go forward in regret and sorrow but if that is where forward leads, you must go. Should a more pacifist leading come from God you must obey it. We do all things with love in the heart or we can be sure we are outside of His Will. God Bless Dave.

 

[Brad Huber]

I think it comes down to being obedient in loving enemies. But this rests on knowing the benefits of a martyr's death far outweigh killing enemies. It's not for the novice but for those who take the cross.

You should travel in muslim countries sharing the word of God from scripture, you would find your martyrdom pretty quickly.

 

[Dave L]

You should travel in muslim countries sharing the word of God from scripture, you would find your martyrdom pretty quickly.

If God sends me I will follow. But you don't need to go that far to be a martyr. Just don't use violence to defend yourself in any American city or neighborhood.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Jesus told us to love our enemies as he did when he sacrificed his life for them. Personally, I would rather suffer violence and die upholding his word and wear a martyr's crown than not by killing someone, just to rot away in old folks home one day.

If I understand what you're saying Dave....Getting killed by a mugger in some dark alley is NOT being a martyr just because you're a Christian. Its getting killed by a mugger. Just like getting killled by some ugly disease is not being martyred...Its being a victim of the UGLY. Being a martyr is, as an example. You refuse to take the mark and getting your head removed for your refusal. Suffering for a dumb decision is not suffering for your faith either. Jesus did not tell his disciples to buy swords so they would be in vogue with the latest styles but to keep themselves alive by protecting themselves from the muggers of the day. Jesus in not only loving but also logical.

 

[Dave L]

If I understand what you're saying Dave....Getting killed by a mugger in some dark alley is NOT being a martyr just because you're a Christian. Its getting killed by a mugger. Just like getting killled by some ugly disease is not being martyred...Its being a victim of the UGLY. Being a martyr is, as an example. You refuse to take the mark and getting your head removed for your refusal. Suffering for a dumb decision is not suffering for your faith either. Jesus did not tell his disciples to buy swords so they would be in vogue with the latest styles but to keep themselves alive by protecting themselves from the muggers of the day. Jesus in not only loving but also logical.

It is being a martyr because of your martyr's mindset. Unarmed, no plans for violent self-defense. It indeed is a martyr's death, especially in our day.

 

[hopefulson]

It is being a martyr because of your martyr's mindset. Unarmed, no plans for violent self-defense. It indeed is a martyr's death, especially in our day.

Well said, to follow where He leads and however He leads us, is in the martyr's soul and mindset, as is dying in faith for His will in their life. So gun or no gun this is true as long as it is in Faith and not by a decision of the flesh which are cheap and dead conclusions outside of His Spirit and will. The decisions made are between the individual and God so let our death not be cheap in any way at all. So this is a conclusion we all should reach; how goes the position of our lives before God so will go the meaning of our deaths. Because we are standing before the Truth of The Spirit of God, there is no cheating possible.

 

[Tarken]

ya'll typed so much on this subject.

i remembered this verses and thought maybe it applied to the subject. At the moment , I not sure on how i feel about Guns and other weapons,
or the idea of turning any item into a weapon. I use to have a shotgun that i use to shot clay pigeons as sport never cross my mind of using it for killing . I gave it away.

Mathew 26: 52 "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

Now remember i'm new , might be taking this out of context , correct me if i'm wrong . Be gentle.

 

[Brad Huber]

Scripture is never wrong, Sometimes we dont get the full picture with just 1 or 2 verses about a subject though. Usually, you need to find all verses that pertain to a subject (I like Naves Topical bible for that). People that cherry pick just 1 or 2 verses and apply man's logic to them "may" not be correct on the matter though. It is never wrong to have faith in verses that speak to you more so though, for the body of Christ is made up of many members, called to different things. We cant all be the hand, or the head, or the foot. But at the same time, when anything is disputable about a subject in scripture, its best to read all the scripture that pertains to it, ask God to help you understand it, and accept that leading from the Lord, at the very least for you.

 

[hopefulson]

ya'll typed so much on this subject.

i remembered this verses and thought maybe it applied to the subject. At the moment , I not sure on how i feel about Guns and other weapons,
or the idea of turning any item into a weapon. I use to have a shotgun that i use to shot clay pigeons as sport never cross my mind of using it for killing . I gave it away.

Mathew 26: 52 "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

Now remember i'm new , might be taking this out of context , correct me if i'm wrong . Be gentle.

There is a lot on this subject. However, when you read anything in red letters they are show stoppers, clock stoppers also, because the creator of all things is speaking and everything created from the greatest to the smallest down to the atoms and their parts, along with all their relationships reflect His meaning and purpose and character. No Words therefore written in red are not universal and cosmic in their meaning and implications. Are we sure of what the exact meaning of the statement is? For there are wars that must be fought. Threats that must be addressed where we will all perish in the face of, and the absense of the gun encourages the offenses of such types. These are not the kind of things Jesus is addressing yet His statement may be bigger than all types of circumstances. No words that are not established in His personal intimate Spirit within you are worth saying or considering.

Now lets consider Him and His order. We can look back through The Old Testament and see not just war encouraged but The Lord Himself in the middle of the battles with dier consequenses to The Lord's enemies and the enemies of the people of His choice. The Babylonians could not be stopped for they did God's will yet He destroyed them for that very conduct and their willful spilling of human blood. Now contrast how the world will be when Jesus Christ returns; the lion, the lamb, the wolf, the viper will all be harmless. In Jesus Christ there are no guns. How deeply are you in Jesus Christ? I could go on and on down the road of self examination and the meaning and consequenses of every position you plant your feet upon but the bottom line will be however small you are willing to become for The Lord's will within you will translate to your personal joy and glory forever.

 

[Anthony Kyle]

I'm pretty sure if guns existed in the old testament there would be quite a few men of God who had guns and who used them guns to kill. Some of the warriors of the bible that have killed include David, Gideon, Joshua, and Samson to name a few. Not to mention the men they led into battle.

 

[Brad Huber]

I'm pretty sure if guns existed in the old testament there would be quite a few men of God who had guns and who used them guns to kill. Some of the warriors of the bible that have killed include David, Gideon, Joshua, and Samson to name a few. Not to mention the men they led into battle.

Its funny, how so many christians want Jesus or the angels or someone else to always solve their problems with other people. They cant see themselves fighting others, saying they would rather be sheep led to the slaughter in some cases. Christians in the early church were told to flee persecution, so to spread the good news. Not submitting to whatever the govt wants,no matter how ungodly. And when the jews were led into the promised land, they wanted God to just push everyone out of the land or just make them submit to their whims as slaves. When told they must fight for it, be brave and fight and trust in the Lord to give them the battle, they cowered and rebelled and God made them suffer in the desert till the day they died. Only the brave (Joshua and Caleb) who knew that the Lord would make the battles turn their way, were allowed to enter the Holy Land.

 

[Brad Huber]

But that being said, we should "never" seek to fight others unless motivated to do so by the Lord.

 

[hopefulson]

But that being said, we should "never" seek to fight others unless motivated to do so by the Lord.

Amen anything not said or done in Faith is sin.

 

[brighthouse98]

Back some 2000 years ago when Jesus walked the earth,people had swords.( Luke 22:35-38) Now Jesus knew what was to come( John 18:4-11) Since Jesus knew, why did he not stop Peter from cutting off the ear of the high priest slave before he did it?? Jesus himself made a weapon as well!( John 2:13-15) I understand how many feel about any kind of weapon,as for me I will say this.It's better to have a gun and not need one,then to need one and not have one! Those who do own one should be trained as I am in having one. It is not out of fear that I own one,it is for others as well as myself to protect some nut from hurting people.